i see there have been a lot more responses since i started my last response. i cannot address this anymore right now. i wish i could, although maybe it will be better for me to do some deep reflection on all that has already been said before i say anymore anyway.

maybe, as bob says, i am "avoiding looking straight at the consequences of infidelity."

i conceed. for now anyway.

FL

the new me

I can't comment on the value of that to your H FL.

I pray your H values it enormously.

I did not know about your history of abuse. I never knew an abusive childhood so i can't make comparison. Imagine the experience was terrifying and damaging.

Is it possible the 'broken machines' within you are what mafunctioned and enabled your infidelity ?

If so it underlines my point that there are natural consequences to activities and happenings that God neds to go against His natural laws to undo. So He helps us circumvent and manage them.

Are you FULLY recovered from your abuse with ALL broken machines fully repaired or replaced FL ? Is a part of YOU ever dead because of your abuse? Has God regrown YOUR devastated relationship organs?

I am far less tolerant of the minor 'crises' that I used to deal with on behalf of friends before the affair.

I can't find concentration for " he said. she said " crap and minor job issues that I used to.

When you've been to war, civilian job deadlines are nothing.

Maybe when you have suffered abuse as YOU have FL, perhaps being on the receiving end of infidelity genuinely doesn;t seem so bad.

Experience resets our templates and measurements.

I pray I'll never know how it feels to be abused, nor to be a WS. And perhaps its a blessing you don't know what being a BS is like.

I know a whole lot about RIF's sitch. He's been my offline recovery mentor with Gimble. A wonderful man and a wonderful recovery. He can read and tell us himself of any consequences of infidelity that still persist in his life if he wishes.

I don't like having this discussion with you FL. You have such an optimistic view of recovery I hate to dash it with what I see as reality.

All blessings.

{{{{{FL}}}}} Would you consider dropping me an email?

I hope we can keep this discussion going in a respectful manner. I realize that it is very painful for both sides, but I think it is also valuable.

FL, and this is what we are trying to tell you. It is very much analogous to the death of a child in that something inside is forever killed. Minimizing it by calling it the "recovery of a marriage" doesn't change that. It is much more than the "recovery of a marriage," it is a grievous, cruel betrayal that forever changes the way we look at others.

The death of a child is not done purposefully, adultery is, so there is an intensity, a cruel aspect, to adultery that does not exist with the death of a child. The innocence and trust that one once had in their marriage is forever damaged. One's relationships with others are forevr changed once exposed to this level of cruelty. Having been through both myself - you have not been through both, btw - I can attest that the damage is very similar.

Just as an abused child or a raped woman is never the same, a victim of adultery is never the same. And no one in their right mind would ever assert that a rape or a molestation made them a "better" person. That is unrealistic.

I do hope you honestly consider Bob's words, because I think he is correct, FL, that you are avoiding looking at the damage caused by infidelity.

Melody -

Then where is the hope? I have a close friend that lost a daughter when she was 7. As I was grieving the loss of my best friend, I asked her how long it took to go through the grief. She told me it has been over 50 years, and she still thinks of her child everyday.

My WH is out of my life now. But for those that are still together, will this be hanging over the relationship for another 50 years?

believer, I think of my son every day. But I don't think of my H's affair anymore; hardly ever. But the effects of my H's affair will be forever imprinted on my personality, in how I relate to others. It changed my personality. I no longer grieve over my H's affair, I will never stop grieving about my son's death.

bob, i'm sorry. i'm going to withdrawal from this conversation now.

believer, i did not intend for any of my words to be disrespectful in any way. i apologize if they came across that way. i have not taken anything anyone else has written as disrespectful.

melodylane, ok, lets assume that is exactly what i am doing, refusing to look at it head on. now lets assume somehow i gather the strength to look at it head on.

what do i do with it now?

cuz so far all i am doing is crying (bob, i swear if you apologize for "making me cry" i'm going to find you and hit you!!!)

crying is obviously not a good response, it certainly is not a good way to behave here at work. it is not productive on any level.

but looking at it head on in the light you all are saying is only resulting in me wanting to cry a million tears and then run away, curl up in a ball and sleep.

and that is not going to do my H or family any good, now is it?

what good comes from that???

compare that to the good that can come from a FWS who works hard on improving herself and holds on to hope that a fully recovered marriage (her goal) is achievable.

i'm totally drained from this thread!!! i have a headache now, of course that can also be caused by the fact that i have skipped eating lunch.

i'm not saying i should avoid looking at anything that gives me a headache.... i just sincerely want to know, what do i do with it?

FL - You haven't written anything disrespectful, nor has anyone else. My words were just cautionary, as sometimes these kind of threads lead to disrespect, because they are so painful to both sides. Sorry you have a headache.

Well, the first thing you do is stop minimizing the damage. The second thing you do is accept the truth about adultery and if any amends need to be made, you make them.

But facing the truth about ourselves and the ramifications of our actions is the first step in self acceptance. When you run from the truth about yourself, you are betraying who you really are, FL. That is what motivates us to change and what leads to true self acceptance.

Mel/FL

The thought of losing a child is unbearable - all parents fear and dread it - my heart goes out to you both.

My H, when I'm agitated as I am at present, is often reproachful that I can't see anything positive coming from this nightmare. I am utterly changed - this is not the same woman who lived in this world three years ago. I am wiser, sadder, more insightful, less naive. Aren't these benefits, says H? And I think...someone whose daughter has been raped and murdered...that person will change, become a sadder, wiser, more insightful person...but the cost isn't worth it. Not nearly worth it.

I would rather be naive, silly, shallow...and not have had this nightmare happen to me.

Making lemonade from lemons is the only way to deal with lemons. But having lemons dumped on you by natural, non-malicious forces is one thing. Having lemons dumped on you by the one person in the world who promised to look out for you is another. And when that person tries to persuade you into gratitude over the fact that you have lots of lemonade now...that's insulting.

believer, thanks, i'm going to get my lunch out of the fridge now.

knewbetter - thank you for the offer of email. i know i know your name, seen it on the boards enough, but looking at past posts, i can't seem to figure out your story.

ok, specifically if you are male or female, to put it bluntly, there is no way i can run the risk of starting up any direct contact (which includes emails) with any male.

can you tell me why you wanted me to email you? if you want, start a seperate thread "for FL's eyes only" and up front ask others not to read (if what you want to say, you do not want the general public to read). of course, asking for a thread to be "for FL's eyes only" does not actually gurentee anything.....

Facing the truth is always a good thing. Everyone benefits from that.

FL
'no need to apologise' right back at ya ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I don;t like having this discussion but it is necessary I think.

i am tired of teh rollercoaster of recovery. Mostly the highs are lovely , but lows are crashing.

I need to confront the damage done by infidelity too and carry the realization with me all the time.

That way I will not expect myself or Squid to do anything that is out of context.

I also need to think very strongly about the benefits of recovery.

Perhaps the word recovery sets teh wrong impression within me.

I DO feel as though I am recovering from a huge insult - a massive medical risk or procedure. As a result I'm DELIGHTED to still be alive and getting more capable every day ! But some days I notice the scars and limp, and hurt and teh things I can't do anymore and it saddens me.

I cannot change any of those consequnces of infidelity so I MUST concentrate on maximising the benefits of recovery.

life IS good ! and I DO enjoy those family times more piquantly than I used to because I came * that * close to losing them forever. ( and I have a pride that I played some noble part in restoring a good moral life for my family).

And my life is not even comparable to how it was a few month ago.

I need to carry my scars ad treat them well, not ignore them be surprised when they ache.

All blessings FL. You have a good heart.

I will readily admit, I am one.

I do not know of any residual problems I have. That feels so good to say!

Susan <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Susan, were you BS or WS ? I never DID catch your story.

great BTW ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I love to hear success stories ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I was both WS and BS. I'm too old for you to remember my story. It was way before your time. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Recovery since 1999 and we just celebrated our 29th wedding anniversary last weekend. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Susan <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for clarifying Susan !

I would point out that I am fully recovered, however, I DO have residual problems. And always will, that is a healthy, normal reaction to trauma and abuse. Just as a child abuse or rape victim can "recover" it would be unrealistic to ever believe there was no residual damage.

Melody, I DO understand what you are saying. It is true, it is like a trauma, it never goes away. I'll never forget it. I do have reminders or triggers.

I am married to a wonderful man. We have both changed so much. They are no longer painful. They no longer have power over me so I no longer clasify them as residual *problems*.

Susan <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />