WNH,

I know a little bit about law. OM has not legitimate ground for a lawsuit against you. You wife is trying to intimidate you. Don't give in.

As Mel says, contact OMW to put a wrinkle on any shenanigan that your wife plan to do with OM tomorrow.

I am not sure if it is right to tell your children the truth yet, but at some point soon, I surmise, you will have to come clean with them. It is not your job to protect your wife from her unprotectable actions.

You are doing great and making us proud.

Best

Maybe I should try to get OMW on tape saying it's okay that I call, and that I'm not harassing her. In my state you can't tape without permission, so for the tape to be of any use in legal proceedings I'd need to ask her for permission to tape 1st.

wnh, I wouldn't worry about it. It was just an empty threat from your WW in an attempt to shut you up. Telling his W about the affair does not constitute harrassment.

Will the OMW come here so we can help her? It sounds like the seperation was a result of this affair and we could help her too.

I would not do that. She does not know you that well and may start to think that you are as crazy as OM and your wife are probably saying that you are. Let me say it again, OM has no valid harassment case against you.

Do not let fear paralyze you from doing the right thing. You are on the right tract.

Just sit back and watch what happens next. Exposure it very good to break up the affair, but it doesn't usually happen right away. It takes some time, and facing consequences for it to shrivel and die.

Stay calm, and keep repeating that you will do what you need to do to protect your family.

I highly recommended MB to OMW, but I doubt she will come. She's just not wired that way, she wants to trust him and give him lots of room, and if he wants someone else that's bad news for her, but a choice he's allowed to make. She's not really a fighter, I expect. And you may recall (a few posts above) she and OM aren't that tight. I think that's potentially terrible for our M.

She said she has no intention of monitoring OM. She's a hands-off wife.


Re: harrassment, if a regular Joe said he would sue me for harrassment I wouldn't fear. But this guy is a pretty big-time corporate attorney for a trading firm. Not a lightweight. He has a pretty fat wallet and can afford to waste it on frivolous lawsuits. Mine is considerably thinner sorry to say. Maybe I need professional counsel. I'll discuss again with WW tomorrow. If no change, I may interview a couple of civil attorneys.

Maybe I can get more info on the other points above too. Pretty fuzzy.

Don't worry, lover boy doesn't want people to hear about his sleazy affair. I wouldn't even think about it. The last thing a corporate attorney wants is for all of his colleagues to know all about his affair.

The strange thing is that even folks who are cheating say that they value monogamy. He will want folks in the legal field to think that he is a good family man.

And as far as his wife is concerned, she may still be shocked and in denial. Don't worry, no matter how much of a "hands off" wife she is, she will protect her life style.

I am an attorney (corporate in-house). I do not know the state in which you reside, so this should not be construed as offering legal advice - see an attorney licensed to practice in your state for advice regarding your particular state's laws. That being said, I am not aware of any type of actionable "harassment" claim other than harassment in the employment context. OM could go to the police and try to initiate some sort of criminal proceeding but I doubt that would go very far at all...the best I can come up with is telephone harassment and, right now, the only one who might be able to claim that is OM's W but, until she tells you not to call, there's not a claim there, either. Don't let your WW's or OM's threats get to you...apparently, your exposure is getting to them or they wouldn't be making threats they are unable to backup!

Regards,

BB

OMW seems to think WW is out of control infatuated, and has repeatedly chased OM for 2 months without much encouragement on his part. There's some evidence (probably not admissable in court) to the contrary. Anyway - given that OM says he's not pursued WW while WW has pursued him avidly - I'm wondering if OM plans to name WW(!) in a harassment suit! Bleeech, there are so many permutations I don't even want to think about them. Maybe just wait and see, and stay in contact occasionally with OMW, WITH HER PERMISSION. Am I talking sense?

Thanks BB!

Civil lawsuits are public record, so Believer has a good point.

Thinking out loud here... I don't think OM could sue WW either, because I would ask for a subpoena his phone records, which would likely show that he has also participated in an ongoing dialogue with WW. Therefore not harassed. Maybe, that's my very ignorant layman's guess, but hey the law's pretty messed up isn't it.

Was just thinking how I would prefer that OM were submissive and repentent to OMW rather than threatening to me. Is this going according to script? Shouldn't OM and OMW be tight, and shouldn't WW and OM be repentent?

Starting to think ours is going to be a hard case, not one of those easy 30% or 40% where the A closes up shop permanently on exposure day...

Think I'll call it a day. Almost forgot to say Thanks to believer and UVA!

Maybe you know the feeling, dozing lightly in the morning then becoming awake and realizing you have another full day of this *stuff* ahead of you. Sleep and the last 5 seconds before being awake is such a gift....

WW moved to the guest bedroom tonight. There have been occasional nights of separation, but this looks semipermanent. Rats.

They are NEVER repentent and submissive when exposed. They usually try to go on the attack mode, but that only lasts a couple of days. Don't back down.

I know well the sleepless nights, and FINALLY getting going to sleep in the wee hours, just before having to get up for another day of the same.

weneedhelp

Wow! You are getting some fantastic help here. Sounds like everything is going according to script. Your W is now faced with the reality of her actions.

You are correct in that this may not END the affair, but it is most certainly the beginning of the end. Fighting the addiction is really hard for your W, because she's used to getting the "hit" of contact to get her addiction "high". Cold turkey is hard.... but necessary.

There is no written script for exactly what to do next, but, I recommend trying to re-establish a sense of normalcy in your life with your broken W. Suggest that you do some things together, things your W enjoyed in your courtship, and things you both enjoyed in pre-affair days. She'll want "space", so don't be surprised if she doesn't come on board with everything you suggest. She'll want "privacy" so she can make continued attempts to contact the OM and get her fix. Doing things together keeps you from wondering where she's at or what she's doing, and give you a chance to reconnect.

Let her know you understand that she's feeling a "loss" in her life, and be prepared to offer her comfort for her "loss". I know it's hard to do, almost unimaginable, but sometimes necessary. When a woman commits to an affair, she's had to justify a thousand poor decisions to give her heart to another man, and it's really hard for her to face all that she's done wrong. It's an emotional cocktail full of a sense of loss, guilt, sorrow, anger, complicated by the addiction, that's very hard for them to swallow.

Limit your conversations about the affair. Right now, it's the foremost thing on your mind to talk about... the affair and your ensuing relationship. Wayward spouses view your "need" to talk about "things" as you "throwing the affair in their face". All of them want to sweep it all under the rug, forget about it, and move on. Tidy as that seems, it can't be done, not for the BS to heal properly. Or the WS, for that matter.

Take actions to seek that sense of normalcy, and limit conversations about the affair and your relationship to a couple of times a week. Limit them to about an hour, and if either of you become emotional to the point of anger, or issuing LoveBusters, call a time out and let things cool off before resuming the conversation. It's hard to do this, and trust me, if you do bring up the A at during every conversation, you'll drive your W away. She's just not "ready" to feel "battered" by those conversations.

Cook her dinner, take her to movies, shows, comedy clubs, to places that support her or your hobbies and stay busy. She will fill NONE of your needs until she withdraws, and Harley says three weeks minimum before withdrawal begins. In my case withdrawal took place over a 6 month period, while my WW harbored "feelings" that the OM would "wait" for her while I maintained vigilance over the NC I expected.

During this time expect a wide range of emotions from your W. Mostly expect cold indifference, sleeping in the spare bedroom, sharp remarks directed at your "breech of promise" regarding Exposure, and in general a sullen and distasteful creature. But it won't last forever. It's a very gradual, almost inperceivable process. One day, in the not too distant future, your wife will look at you, and you will see that she's "returning" from her cold and distant alien state. You will see it in her eyes. You'll see the "life" that has been missing since she "committed to" the affair. If the OM goes NC, it will happen sooner rather than later. Don't be knocked off your plan if contact does take place, because it does take more than one attempt to achieve NC in most cases. Even Harley states the infidels would like to "schedule a cruise together", to get closure and say "goodbye".

Stay the course, be strengthened by your sense of empowerment gained from the exposure, and know you have done the right thing. Consider strongly trying to set up counseling with the Harleys in the next 3-4 weeks, as they are great, perhaps the best, at what they do. Until NC is established, and the affair is for sure over, MC is a waste of money. But as withdrawal is in process and you start to see glimpses of the W you used to know, that is the time to get marriage counseling or coaching. You will know when the time has arrived.

Stay healthy, stay positive, stay the course. Be creative and imaginative. Keep any changes you have made in yourself as a part of Plan A in place... no bait and switch! Buy her a long stem red rose, or just a little card telling her how much she means to you. Don't over do anything, but just give her small tokens of your love for her. However, do stay away from telling her "I love you" for a while. Use actions to show her, not words to tell her. Make her wonder just a bit how much damage she's done to the one she loves, but hurt to the very core.

Wow, this got really long.... sorry.....info overload!

Best wishes,
SD

WNH,

Glad you can get some rest. It is usually hard t/d for the BS at the stage you are in.

Do a background check on the OM. He's a lawyer but by no means above the law. He wants to throw his legalese at you or via the WS, let him. It is sure gonna sound funny in any court:

[color:"blue"]Judge: What's this? Case #12435243544325677: OM vs BS. Is legal counsel present for both sides?

OM: I am representing myself. I am a corporate lawyer.

Judge: This is not a corporate case Mr. OM. But you can represent yourself (smirk).

OM: Thank you your Honor.

Judge: Who represents the BS?

Lawyer: The firm of: MB & Co. with Mr. Lawyer as it's represntative Your Honor.

Judge: Let the record show OM represents himself and Mr. BS has a qualified lawyer. Go ahead OM, state your case.

OM: Mr. BS is being charged with trying to stop my A.

Judge: Oh really? Since when is that a crime?

OM: Since it is interferring with my A and making it increasingly difficult for me to carry on my A and have a W and family. I can afford to have all 3 Your honor.

Judge: Oh really, since when is that ok?

OM: It is not a crime.

Judge: No but if you were married to the WS and your W, that w/b bigamy and that is a crime. How close are you to commiting that one?

OM: Oh not close. I don't plan to marry the Ws, just sleep with her.

Judge: <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> Hm.... well that s/b a crime but it is not right now. Back to the case. What crime did Mr. BS commit?

OM: Well none yet, your Honor but he might. AFter all I have been sleeping with his W and Mr. BS has been talking to my W.

Judge: Soo......get to your point. This court is here to try cases where the law has been broken..... prove your case.

OM: I have none yet, your honor, I just want to get it started in case he does decide to break to law.

Judge: This is stupid. What kind of lawyer r u again?

OM: A Corporate lawyer, your honor.

Judge: For which firm?

OM: A, A and A, your Honor.

Judge: I know that firm..... will send them a letter.

OM: Oh thank you your honor.

Judge: You are quite welcome (smirk) Mr. BS, the court sees no reason to hold any charges against you. Keep on doing what you need within the law to protect your family. Note that OM is a corporate lawyer and did not score any special points by wasting my time today. You Mr. BS are free to go. Take care of your family and I hope your W gets out of the and stops hanging around with such an idiot. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Case dismissed. Next case..... [/color]

LOL!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> I am not a lawyer, this stuff is what TV stories /jokes are made up of. The crazy part is OPs and WS' are dumb enough to attempt to pull such stunts.

Pray for a clear mind and a calm heart with lots of patience. You are gonna need it. Don't let the WS and OP's threats scare you. Just look at them and don't respond.

L.

wnh, please don't back down at this critical point. I know you are devastated, but you have the affair on the ropes right now so it is important to do a complete and effective exposure so they don't get up. It sounds like the OMW is a wimp who may - or may not - be much help.

I have a feeling that she will now use your exposure to the OMW as a justification to carry on her affair right under your nose. wnh, you must do everything to stop that. Please don't rest on your laurels shaking in fear. You cannot afford it now. Your boys need you to have some brass right now.

Expose the affair NOW to your W's family, your family, close friends and anyone else who would have influence. You have put pressure on the affair by exposing to the W, but more is needed. Its better to do it now and get it over with rather than have to deal with this again in 3 weeks. Spreading it out diminishes the effect of exposure and enables them to pull themselves together and recover quickly from minor exposures.

Did you see my comments about addressing her about her plans to be "gone" today? She is your W, wnh, and is accountable to you and your children for her time. Don't allow her to bully you. Women do not respect men they can run over and often our degree of love is directly related to respect. So while you must not lovebust her, you also must not allow her to run over you. You must stand firm now, especially when it concerns your children.

I am absolutely horrified that she has been allowed to lie to your children and use them in this little charade as a demonstration of her "threat" to you. Do you realize that is what she is doing, wnh? She is trying desperately to scare the ****** out of out you and will even stoop to dragging your children into this. Please don't let her use your children or lie to them. You are the only sane adult they have to depend on right now, please step up to the plate.

It sounds to me like you are just going right along with all this divorce talk, and I would stop that immediately. Let her know that you are not interested in divorce and will do what it takes to stop her from destroying your family and marriage.

Thanks always Shattered, believer and Orchid for taking so much time to help. Orchid I like your court scenario; it would be good television..

According to OM (via OMW) it sounds like it's been more of an infatuation than an affair for the last half of its 3-1/2 months. OM seems to have only remotely involved, vs. WW being out of control - again according to OM (via OMW). Does anyone here have experience with such more or less one-sided infatuations (if that's what it's been recently?)

I can't figure out why WW threatened to D me if I contacted OM or OMW. She says the D she wants has nothing to do with her A. Then why did she connect the two? She says it's because it's not fair of me to risk OM/OMW marriage. Obviously there's no sense in that. Anyway I think it must be something else..probably WW was afraid of the info I could get out of OMW, and wanted to fence me out via a harsh threat. Or possibly WW wanted to keep OM in communication in case she and I were to end up divorcing?


Actually I haven't gotten much new info, the story isn't that different from what WW said to me previously. Except one huge doozy of a lie. I'll say it here just because it's so impressive. Can't remember if I'd mentioned WW's 2-nights-out bike trip, where OM supposedly wasn't there? That's the one where upon her return I found a negligee in her bag. I'd questioned her pretty closely, she denied many times. Turns out OM was there. I'm pretty impressed WW had the brass to stick by such a whopper! Touching but no sex according to OM (via OMW). Don't know if they shared a bed - not that it means anything but they had reserved and paid for separate hotels.


All those lies I can get over, once they stop and we get back to normal. But WW doesn't want to get back to normal, she wants the D. Her heart is as hard and cold as a big old tombstone, she can't forgive me for things I did more than 2 years ago (she had forgiven me before her A), and she hates me for manipulating her re the A, and maybe is having a hard time with some guilt too. E.g. yday when we talked to the kids she obliquely mentioned 'things can happen when M have secrets'. But she doesn't show any guilt or remorse.


If she wants a D I've no choice in our state. But I would very much like her to delay until her head is clear. Also I don't want her head to be poisoned by the possibility of ugly divorce proceedings. I don't want her to think about anything right now. How can I get her to just chill for awhile and not rush to file?

Thinking to propose something like: "this is so very important to our boys and ourselves, surely there's no need to be precipitous, can we please please just rest for three months? Then if you want to we will go ahead with the D of course".

Also I would like to think of some sort of face-saving gesture I can give her to make it easier for her to back off of her D threat. Any ideas?

Any thoughts about the infatuation topic?

Any ideas how to get her to just chill for a couple of months?

Thanks as ever, you're keeping me sane!