I'd bought "The Unexpected Legacy of Divorce". Scary book. About the cost to the kids. I see WW took it with her today. Good. I'd thought to show her a few things, but it's better that she reads for herself.

Rats, I was wrong. Just found it here.

All of my advice to you is what I've learned here, and based on what I did that worked for me. My W's birthday was yesterday, and I gave her a lovely bouquet of flowers with a card that read "Happy Birthday to a woman who has ALWAYS been worth fighting for" Although we don't often discuss how much her actions hurt me, she got the jist of the message in the card, and it brought her to tears. That let me know she "understood" some of what she put me through, all without words. It meant more to me than I could put in words.

MOST WS are incapable of even making an attempt at saying all that a BS should hear in order to heal a damaged marriage. Those that are making an attempt typically fall short of saying "exactly" the right things to fully appease the BS.

But with time, patience, a great deal of care and a heaping helping of unconditional love, wonderful things can happen.

I will caution you, though, quit trying to "teach" her by recommending books, or quoting things from Harley or from us here on this site. She doesn't want to be taught, and will reject anything positive and helpful you mention. If you leave the book in plain sight, and she does pick it up and read it, glory be, if not, no worries. It just is what it is, and nothing more. Don't let that discourage you in any way, because that's the way a WS is "programmed".

Spend more time being creative with the ideas I gave you in a previous post, and less time fretting and stewing about the little stuff. It will level out some of the ups and downs in your emotional roller coaster!

You have done really well in your mission here, so accept this pat on the back and a "job well done" so far. Stay on task, and you'll be asking questions about recovery in a month or so.

Best wishes,
SD

PS... mine is a long story... I try to get something back to you on that this weekend.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> Thanks Orchid.... years of training... LOL! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Thanks Dad for the pat on the back. As for the mistakes I've made, I'll try to do better next time. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> Ouch that hurt to even joke about.

I hear you about the 'teaching'. I told WW that MB doctrine favors exposing - so of course right now she thinks MB is full of vindictive hateful people who want to get revenge on OMs family. Do you think it helped to tell WW that MB is full of kind beautiful people, both WS and BS, who generously give in hopes of making the world a better place, while receiving nothing in return? You know the answer.

Despite our being sentenced not to talk to each other, WW thinks we should attend a kids' party together tomorrow. Maybe today's just one of those good days. I won't read too much into it.

Working on those Plan A ideas. May try to make a small love deposit this afternoon..but to increase the odds of it being accepted I may have it come from the kids. She'll know I played a role.

No contact in a week that I can see. Of course they may have just gone deeper underground. There are some calls to/from cell phone numbers I don't recognize. Too bad reversephonedirectory.com doesn't work on cell phone numbers. Not sure whether to ask her about those calls or not. Risky; could be taken as very antagonistic.

That's probably it for today. Still no D suit after 4 days, so that's a good week. Thanks Mel, Shattered and everybody for everything. Hasta Manana.

Trying to add love units, Friday I rented a movie for WW. According to the kids she enjoyed it last night. I'm sure she won't thank me or feel an ounce of good feeling towards me.

Yday morning I wandered into the room while WW was talking on the phone while browsing divorce attorneys on the web. She didn't think I saw what she was looking at. She erased the phone log trying to hide her tracks. We didn't speak (x/c for kid logistics) and she didn't volunteer anything. Don't know what it means, but it didn't do much for my attitude.

In-house separation continues. Went to a party yday afternoon; took two cars, hardly spoke. WW seemed nice - but I couldn't get myself to be anything more than neutral to her, knowing she'd been on the phone with D attorneys.

She went bicycling today. I'd bet a nickel she's biking with OM. Boys and I on a rafting trip. WW and I won't see each other today, unless a minute two tonight.

I go to IC tomorrow. May take the kids to a baseball game Tues. I imagine WW would like to come but I think I'll cut her out; inconsistent with in-house separation.

WNH,

Boy, your WW seems to be consulting with an awful lot of attorneys before selecting one...as an attorney, that seems odd to me. Usually, it only takes 1 or 2, maybe 3. I am wondering whether she is having a hard time finding one that will tell her what she wasnts to hear or whether she is having difficulty finding one who will take the case. Last option is she is finding out how expensive attorneys are...these are all good options for you!

Regards,

BB

Here's a history of the madness in my marriage.

Married in 1973 after short courship of only 7 months. I had a ONS, in a drunken stupor in 1980 with a casual friend. No EA attached, wrong time, wrong place, tons of alcohol involved. I confessed, as the guilt was overwhelming, and we worked things out, or so we thought. We had two young boys at the time.

Fast forward to 4 years ago... by then our third son had arrived, in middle school and our older boys had moved out. My W had grown increasingly distant and I grew increasingly suspicious something wasn't right. Turns out a high school friend of mine and I had been chatting online, and while I was on a trip w/a friend to NYC, she began chatting with him. This developed into a strong EA. I found they had been exchanging e-mails and cracked her and HIS e-mail accounts. I threw a fit, threatened to expose, sent him a very nasty and threatening e-mail, and threatened to expose my w/to her family if there was ever any contact again. It took a while for her to withdraw, but things never got much better between us.

Fast forward again to April two years ago. W was looking at houses for my middle son, and spent way too much time with a divorced real estate agent. Once again the distance between us was greater, SF completely shut down, and she became the typical angry, spiteful WS. The A had become slightly physical before I caught it. I caught them with a slick little digital phone recorder, that records both sides of a phone call, all numbers dialed and all numbers dialed in (that aren't blocked).

I played a 35 minute conversation back to her, and she denied everything, although it was right there on the recording. Talk about fog. It was during this time I learned she was STILL in contact with an OM she had a mostly EA with clear back in the mid 1970's. OMG! Talk about a blind sided train wreck. This man has been "in love" with my wife for all these years, each time he called he'd say he'd still leave his wife just to be with mine if she'd say the word. All this was in August 2 years ago. I found MB in December, so I'd already done a lot wrong.

So, with the double D-day in August, I was left to my own devices on how to "fix" everything, so we went to MC, I demanded NC from both OM and contact with the latest OM stayed in place until February, a year and a half ago. At that time, W found out OM #3 had a new girlfriend. She was devestated. I had to stay home from work and comfort her for her "loss". She slowly began to withdraw, but it took a full 5-6 months before her old self began to emerge.

Plan A, reading here and Surviving an Affair is what saved my marriage. Now there have been a few "come to Jesus" moments along the way, but I have been the one consistantly, but fairly, aiming for a better marriage than the one that died, maybe 28 years ago. And yes, during this recovery period, I have demanded that my W step up and be a bigger part of working on the marriage.

Now, bear in mind, my wife's life has revolved around the church, and has been a deacon for 5 years. She gave it all up for the feel good of the A's. She was very conflicted about all this, but has now come to terms with it. I have been nothing but supportive of our marriage throughout this saga, and have issued a few ultimatums during the recovery period, but all backed up with facts and not issued with LB's. I have learned to communicate in a much more productive fashion through all this.

So, now we are 1.4 years into recovery, and our marriage, although not without conflict, is better than it's been in years. My W never bought in to the MB business, but I have been able to slowly introduce her to the philosopy through my own actions, and she is learning by "association", and it is working.

I loved her more than I ever knew I did, and I never treated her as well as I should have. I have corrected most of my bad influences on the marriage, and have forgiven my W for her bad choices. Yes, there are still triggers (real estate signs all over with his name on them, for one), but I'm not allowing myself to react to them. My wife is totally accountable for her time, passwords, actions, cell phone records, etc., and I have given her back the trust she forfieted when she committed the affair.

So, that's it, condensed version. If you have questions, feel free to ask. We are just another ordinary family who has had to survive this insanity. I am trying to wean from these boards for about the 5-6th time, so don't post nearly as much as I used to. You and Slash are my only active threads. Only occasionally do I post anywhere else.

You can click on my "identity", and view some of my old posts, some of which have a lot more personal trials and tribulations that were spelled out in "real time", sort of a journal of part of my time here.

My advice... take WW to the ball game with your kids. Have a GREAT time, and no R or A talks. Just have fun as a family, and let W know what a beautiful thing will be destroyed by her seeking a D.

Just my thoughts...
SD

Thanks SD for the story. Good grief that's a story to put fear into a strong man. How did you ever make it through? How on earth could you not have just said 'enough' at some point? I am very impressed with your ____ can't think of the best word to put there, so many come to mind. Tenacity? Fearlesness? Strength? Patience? Love for your wife?

As the saying goes, if all the troubles on earth were put into a pile I'd be happy to take mine and walk away..

Thank you Shattered for taking the time to talk with me, I really appreciate it.

Did you take WW with you and the kids to the ball game?

SD

BB: Forgot to say things for the input. I don't have a clue what's with all this lawyer-contacting. I'd like to get WW to write a NC letter to all the D law firms! 'my marriage means too much to me to continue contact with you, etc'. Joke.

SD: Ball game is later this week. Not sure which way I'll go with it. A bit risky taking WW unless she's in the right frame of mind. But I understand your thoughts; could add love units to invite her along. Unless it doesn't go well; in that case we'd both experience 4 hours of bad feelings.

I have IC tonight, I'll ask the counsellor what we're trying to accomplish with in-house separation, and how I should act. I think he's a pretty clever guy, probably he has a plan. Assuming his ideas make sense to me, I'll likely play along.

Didn't see WW at all yday. She was gone on her biking trip when by the time I woke up. By the time the kids and I got back late, she was already in her bedroom, and didn't come out to speak.

In a conspicuous place where I'd be sure to see it, was her number that she wore on the back of her biking jersey yday - I guess to demonstrate that she was riding the bike yday rather than spending time with OM. Of course OM could have ridden bike with her, they often have in the past. Anyway maybe she is reaching out to me a bit.

This morning she came to see me re a couple of logistical things; very pleasant.

She's studying for a professional exam and said she hasn't been able to concentrate and may fail it. I think she was hinting that she could use some help. I've always helped her with those in the past. As with the ball game, not sure which way to go with that. Offering to help could add love units. But I don't want to sabotage what MC is trying to accomplish. I'll ask him.

Think these things through. Often times MC's are not aware of the MB program, and some of what they recommend can be counter-productive. Have you asked him if he's familiar with the MB program? If he's not, you might want to mention it to him. Our MC was not interested in the MB philosophy at all, and sort of poo-poo'd it when I mentioned it, and that was the beginning of the end of my visits to her.

ANY opportunity you have to make deposits in her LB$$ are good. Just make sure ANYTHING you do for her is out of UNCONDITIONAL LOVE, meaning don't expect ANYTHING back from her. Don't point out how helpful and loving you've been, because she WILL turn it AGAINST you. At least right now she will. Your TAKER will have to remain on the shelf until she's through withdrawal, and even then will have to operate in an extremely limited capacity.

Righ now, it's GIVE, GIVE, GIVE. Remember, no ONE THING you do will make any difference at all. It is the cumulative effect of ALL the things you do that make a difference.

No R talks right now unless she agrees to one that is scheduled, with a time limit, and with rules. Keep her leaning towards you, and do nothing that pushes her away. This is a critical time, and everything you say and more importantly everything you do, has an impact, be it good or bad. Think everything through before you do it!

Make the ball game a "treasured" family moment with her and the kids. Do something special, like buy a team hat for you all to wear....a unity thing...be creative and thoughtful.

Best wishes,
SD

Thanks SD. MC is a specialist in family matters, infidelity among others. Smart guy and a good guy for me at least. His story is somewhat unusual. Formerly a successful international banker in Singapore and elsewhere, he sought a career change, got a PhD and professional certifications in family counselling, and his practice has been highly recommended in our area for 10 years. Gets many referrals via 'Focus On the Family'. He's helped us for many years, and really wants us to get through with M intact.

MC is a big supporter of MB for me. I don't think he always recommends it to his infidelity clients, but since I'd found MB he wants me to stick with it and is enthusiastic that I'm here. He thinks MB will also be useful if we get to Recovery stage. Anyway I'd be here even if he weren't a MB supporter.

I understand and will follow what you're saying about give give give, no taking, and no mentioning my giving to WW. Thanks for that. I can't remember my Taker being let out (aside from a couple of unfortunate outbursts) since I saw the concept on MB. No plans to let him out. I have mentioned a few times to WW that I've been pretty good at being with her in this tricky time; she's acknowledged that's true, but I can see that I need to stop saying that kind of thing. Thanks.

weneedhelp,

I'm going to be on vacation for a week, and my access and/or time to be on the computer will be limited.

You have the information in this thread to "carry on", and continue making progress in this battle. If something new comes up, you can change the name of your thread to get immediate assistance, or just type in "bump" and push your thread to the top of the list.

If you begin to lose faith, go back to the start of your posting here, and see how much you've grown, and how far you've come. You have made incredible progress (even though it might not feel like it!), and things are looking good for you.

Keep a positive outlook, think things through before you react to anything, keep LB's out of the picture, and proceed with UNCONDITIONAL love. You know all the answers....just think for a moment and get them clear in your mind before you act on them.

I'll be back in just over a week, if I cannot pop in sooner.

Best wishes,
SD

Thanks for everything SD. Have a great trip.

IC today was 100% along MB lines. I'd misinterpreted before. MC didn't mean 'no contact with WW x/c for logistics', what he meant was 'no contact with WW re: M or A'. He thinks I should carry on adding love units, avoiding LBs, and avoiding R or A talk. Equivalent to Plan A. Will do.

I honestly don't know if WW is in NC. Afraid to look.

I asked WW if - by mentioning her upcoming professional exam - she had been asking for help. She said 'I guess'. Apparently unable to just come out and ask nicely for help. No problem. That's a fairly good way for me to add love units.

The ballgame's too risky and too much exposure at this point. 5 hours with no escape; too much. I told her that; she was indifferent. I hate that. Would much prefer she was supportive, or alternatively hated me for not asking her. Who said 'the opposite of love is not hate, but indifference.'

So WW gets some love units via study buddy, and misses out on a few b/c too risky. Hopefully we can make some progress.

The 'WW' term has been way too impersonal for way too long. Can I call her the Babe? Term of endearment.

Greeted Babe at the door tonight, tried to give her the big smile and a hug, but got the no-handed hug in return. I guess she'll let me hug her once, but don't expect a hug back. That's weird. I'm probably the only person in 100 miles - friend or stranger alike - that she wouldn't greet with a hug. Ah well..

Had an anxiety attack this afternoon. To put my fears to rest - against MC suggestions - I requested a 5-minute R talk with Babe tonight. It went fine. No LBs, just short and fairly sweet. The gist of it was:

* our in-house separation is weird but works for now.
* I'm meeting with IC to work on the Control issues she's been upset about. Could take some time to make progress. Not A-related.
* Babe's working to decide what will bring her happiness.
* We both need some time, and Babe agrees we have some time since our current arrangement works okay.

That's it. I didn't want to press my luck so let it go at 5 minutes. Anyway I'm happy to report I don't see D papers right away. Looks like we've dodged the bullet, at least for now.

I think she has a meeting scheduled with D attorney for Sat AM, but I'm a little less concerned about it now.

She's reading 'The Art of Happiness' by the Dalai Lama. Glad to see her introspective. Has anyone read that book?

Just popped in... let her have the meeting with D attorney.... she'll get a cold, hard look at reality.

Don't even ask about the meeting. Don't mention it. If she says anything at all about it, answer with "ummmmmmm"'s. Say nothing at all. Just remain pleasant and stay in Plan A.

Let her ponder the FACTS and REALITY all by herself. She's "earned" that right!

Best wishes,
SD

Thanks SD for taking the time. Hope you're having a great vacation with lots of sunshine. Today I see a ray of it here. Will try to make it last. Best wishes.

SD: You saw Slash's new thread on GQII?

Spoke to OMW. According to her, the Babe sent OM a text Friday, and tried to call OM Sunday. The text said 'sorry for the trouble' or something to that extent. He didn't respond to either. Hope that's true; could be NC resulted from exposure!

She's cold and distant. I'm giving her time and space, and trying to add a few love units where I can. This sucks. If there weren't a possibility of reconciliation I'd be very frustrated.