Hello
This is my first time in one of these forums. It doesnt come easy for me to discuss my failures in such a way, but I am desperate to understand what went wrong and what I can do to right that wrong.

After a particularly bad marraige and divorce 6 yrs ago, I was in limbo for a few years....yes, I went out & had fun & I was over her (but not over the failure - often blaming myself for most of what went wrong).
4 yrs ago I met the most amazing girl and we fell in love. It was allways rocky tho as I still had issues & so did she. We fought often, but in the beginning at least life was perfect. We lived together as Husband and wife (although we never married), until finally she left me 2 mths ago. I love her deeply and always have. I've promised her the world but she couldnt wait. We still see each other a couple of times aweek and speak often on the phone. She moved out from me & into an appartment with a guy she works with. She says that this guy is easy to talk to & she likes him very much....after 5yrs together, it took her 5 weeks to find someone to comfort her - that alone breaks my heart. She says that she still loves me, but is not 'in love with me, & hasnt been for some time'.
I read the 7 Love Busters, & discovered that I have consistently broken every rule in the book (although not intentionally, as my thoughts of protection were different from hers - and apparently the worlds). My listening skills are poor, I believe because of low self esteem, & that is one of my biggest failings. She always said that I didnt listen, even tho I tried to be considerate and respectful.
We speak often and altho I try hard not too, seem unable to not cause her distress. When this happens, obviously I, myself am also in deep distress and often become agitated (story of my life). I dont believe that she has totally given up on me. She knows well how much I care for her.
She will be visiting me on Saturday, and I want to make a good impression, so-as to encourage her to see more of me. I need help badly.......can someone give me good, solid advise as to how I should approach this meeting.
Oh, we were seeing each other during her lunch break, but she said that this became too painful and she would prefer not to anymore.
Ultimately, I want us to fall back in love with each other - and I want to do it right this time.
Please help.
Thx

Hi Westy,

Welcome. I'm glad your came here in order to help you deal with your situation. Read up on Plan A and I'm sure one of MB guru's will be along shortly with some excellent advise.

I hope so, Im going nuts here. Totally dont know what to do.
BTW - Wots Plan A & Plan B that I keep hearing about?

AND - Whilst browsing the forums, I noticed lots of abreviations, etc being used - although I understand wot some of them mean, others are Greek to me and I have no idea wot they r talking about........where can I read up on these.

Hi westy,

Welcome to MB.

Plan A and B are described under the Q&A columns at the top of this page.Click on the listing for How to Survive Infidelity and scroll down,you'll find it(Plan A/B) at the bottom,left.Also,abbreviations are listed under the Just Found Out forum.Maybe someone can post a link.

Do you think that your girlfriend was involved with this other man before you broke up? Any evidence? I wonder from her statement that she loves you but isn't "IN LOVE" with you which is a CLASSIC statement of wayward spouses(WS's) here.Also the fact that she works with this guy.

What do you mean that "she couldn't wait?" Was she expecting a marriage proposal?

O

Hi westy. I'm on my way out the door for an appt. but I wanted to point you to the
Marriage Buliders Acronyms, etc page.

I'm sorry for your sitch. You should get some great advice here, however. I'll try to post later when I have more time.

slh

I think she was at least emotionally involved witht his guy before we broke up - I feel that his being around acted as an encouragement to her to do it.

She didnt want to wait for me to produce the promises that Id made to her regarding our future - Im not so sure about marrige proposals so much as getting our lives back on track (We'd been living together O/S for 4&1/2 years before returning home to OZ). I havent been able to find a good job were Im happy yet (working yes, but not were I want to be), the house hasnt materialised, etc. Stability, I guess. All of this put a great strain on me trying to get it all together......that kind of thing

I directed Westy33 here, as Westy and I used to work together and know them both well.

This is a tough one. The whole financial instability and job issues started o/s and were one of the reasons they decided to move back to OZ. Unfortunately the cycle seems to be continuing at the moment. Financial security is one emotional need that you cannot start meeting over-night. I am interested to hear what advice you get for this situation.

Hang in there bro.

westy,

What would you like to be accomplishing now? What do you think is preventing you from making these dreams materialize? Where do you see yourself in 5 years? 10 years? Do you think you are sabotaging your own future? Failure of success issues?

Financial security is relative.I have a friend who lives a great lifestyle,outwardly.But they are in major debt to afford this lifestyle.I don't find any security in that.Other's live a little less "extravagantly" in order to be more solvent and have a better future.Buying a Subaru instead of that Mercedes,etc.

Is it possible your GF had high expectations of you that were unreasonable or inappropriate? Not everyone is a CEO of a major corporation.With todays theme of materialism and bling bling and all that,living beyond your means is a common mistake.More bankruptcies than ever are taking place.

What are your thoughts?

O

Octobergirl - I dont think she had high expecattions of me....I have been depressed for many years and needed to snap out of it (easier said than done).....I do have a fear of success that freezes me into doing nothing at all. Its very frustrating for e and everyone who cares about me. I was an over-achiever when I was younger & have an IQ of about 140.....but I freeze up when its time to put myself on the line. No excuses here but it stems from my late childhood (lots of self analysing over years have well pinpointed it). The tragic thing is that I am coming out of all that - she just got impatient.....fair enough.
materialism - I think a woman can reasonably expect that her man will protect her....not just emotionally, but materially (if she is to have children, he has to be bringing home the bacon too). She is right in these expectations - I just have unresolved issues that I havent been able to get a handle on for 1 reason or another.
I think that its just time to suck it up & get on with it. I'm sure that once I start experiencing some success at what I want, I'll be sooo much happier to be me, & therefore be more of an attractive person to be around - its just difficult to break the very long running bad habits that have taken over my life - much to my shame.
She is actually a wonderful person (not perfect - she has some spice & is capable of doing dumb things too....ie she is human) & anyone would be proud to be loved by her. I am - she still loves me - its obvious, shes just hurting & very disapointed I think. Our meeting today went well - she didnt stay too long and I played it cool - it was nice for the two of us. She misses me, so there is still something positive there. She tells me that the other guy is just a mate.....nothing going on there anymore - it was just a comfort need thing.
So, I'm thinking hard about what to do and how. Trying to make positive, forward thinking steps to being what I would call a real man. Hopefully this will heal some of the pain we feel for each other & who know?????? it might just all work out for the best - I'll be healed and we'll be together. can only do what I can & hope for the best

Thanks for your interest - I am thinking hard about the other issues you put forward.

Westy,

Welcome to MB. Sorry to hear about your sitch but let's get you on a recovery plan for you 1st ok?

Please review the concept section above, take the en questionnaire and read 2 books: His Needs/Her Needs and Surviving an Affair - in that order.

You keep seeing her as your GF not as the WS she currently is. As a result, you do not have clear thinking and are holding onto what currently does not exist (your GF). At the very least she is a WS or WGF. Your wishes for recovery and despite your best efforts will not win her back.

Instead you need to strengthen yourself and STOP talking with her. Work on improving you and let her periodically see the improved Westy. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Why? Because you are filling her need by talking with her and as long as that is sufficient for her, there is no need for her to work on a real recovery plan. Basically she is using you to shoot yourself in your own foot. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Get with a good IC who is familar with MB principles.

Again do not meet her needs. She is with the OM and if he is that great she wouldn't be calling you.

L.

Hi Westy,

Has there been any contact since yesterdays meeting?? What was discussed??

There's a saying that you see a lot around this board... "believe none of what you hear and half of what you see". Lets be frank, what are the chances that you are at the kissing / hugging stage with somebody and after they move in with you, you go back to being just mates. Possible... but unlikely. In general I think Orchid is correct in advising you to slow down your contact with her until you have had a chance to work on some positive changes within yourself.

I also have to agree with Orchid on getting a good IC ASAP. You stated that you are just getting over your issues, whereas in fact you have only just become aware of them. You have done nothing to address them so far. Awareness is not the same as recovery, it is just the first step towards it.

Hi again westy,

Ok,so you have stated that you do not believe your GF had high expectations of you.Fair enough.But you do acknowledge a fear of success/failure.That is a positive step: knowing what you are dealing with.And I am sure there is more,underneath,to discover.And you also say that you are "coming out of all that" which is also good but I am sure you need to focus on this right now with counseling and literature.

I agree with Orchid that it may be in your best interest to stop contact with the GF right now,or at least back way off.IMO I think you need to work on yourself since it appears that you are now on your second "failed" relationship but that it was the choice of your GF to leave at this point in time for her own reasons.Whatever those are,she chose to move on to someone else to fill voids,,for excitement,"just a comfort thing"?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />,who knows but it's telling that she left after what she perceived as difficult times and now you know that she most likely could not be counted on during rough times in marriage either.If anything brings her back it might be your newfound introspection and strength that can come from personal growth.

One of the biggest gifts I gave to myself was the resolution to not talk to my WH anymore like we used to.After 20 years of being best friends,it was now profoundly painful to talk to this man that was my husband.It was a relief to give myself the permission to stop.From that point on I felt better and more like myself.You cannot underestimate the depression that can arise from keeping toxic people in your life or continuing on in a bad situation not knowing why you do or under the premise that it's good for you as a couple.Rethink your contact with your GF.Ask yourself if you feel better after contact or worse?

I think it would be great for you to experience success in life as an individual first and then deal with another person being there at your side.This also will help you define what you think is a "real man".No one should be dependent upon another for self worth.That is entriely up to you.Even if your parents failed to help instill that(i.e. my Dad was a failure) you can take it upon yourself to nurture that in various ways.

Also,don't let *healing be dependent upon other's too.Your GF should have no say right now in your personal exploration of who you are,what you want in this life and how YOU will make that happen.That is a common misconception I feel people make all the time.IMHO.

Does this make sense? It's all about CHOICES westy.God gave us this wonderful world to live in and we can all have happiness and fulfillment if we choose to live a life closer to God and that may just simply mean the right way.Making choices that are healthy,don't hurt other's and may not be as complicated as you might think.Believing in yourself. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


O

Phew Guys.....

So much to think about....I have been reading what I could about Plan A & B, differeing needs, etc.
I never realised just how ignorant I have always been. I have much to do. Orchid/Octobergirl/CKTC - thanks for your support guys, keep it coming....I really need it. I am 100% committed to doing all that I can to get her back - obviously to do this, I'll have to be VERY patient & understanding, but more importantly, able to learn to be a better me. I am reading daily & trying hard to overcome the demons of depression & negativity (heck of a battle sometimes ;-)
On a positive note - I start a new job tomorrow. That should be helpful for my state of mind.
Kind regards - I look forward to more thoughts on my situation.

Hi Westy,

Glad to hear about the job. Has there been any interaction between you two?? Also, have you looked into finding an IC yet??

CKTC - IC?????? dont know that 1

Interaction - yeah, she called me Thursday to say Hi. said she was having a bad day at work. I asked her if she wanted to do lunch but she was working thru lunch. Later, after work, I was out having a drink & I called her to come out for a drink, to relax a bit (I feel sick - i just cant help myself). she didnt answer so I went to her place (yes, i know were they live)......i thought this would be a good thing if I handled it right (even tho I should be cutting any communication, i thought this may help to stunt their comfort zone abit too)
so, i get there, he answers the door (we know each other by the way - vaguely at least) & tells me she is sleeping. he wakes her up & leaves us. we chat for awhile, she says she is a bit sick & wants to go back to sleep (hint, hint). she says that she is shocked that i went there as i swore i never would. we hug/kiss cheek & i leave. felt good.


footnote: I dont think she is totally comfortable living there - its a bit grimey & clearly a batchelor pad.
Then again, my suspicious side says that she wasnt sleeping until i left a msg saying i was on my way over.......who knows.

we'll probably see each other again sunday (we still have many loose ends to take care of, so even if I didnt want to see her - which i cant seem to bring myself to do yet - we still have to do these things.
its bloody tough.
I wake up in the middle of the night & cant get back to sleep at all. I have flashes of things just popping into my head without warning throughout the day. sometimes i think i m going crazy....its all a bit out of control in my head right now. I m still alive tho, & trying to move forwards if not move on.

any help or ideas - give me a blast if necessary ( i am so messed up by this)
actually sound like a bit of a winer dont I? .....Need to change thAT to winner, & soon.
Thx

OK - I screwed up massively - My brain went into meltdown on sunday and I broke all the rules....result - WGF (xGF) no longer wants any communication between us.
She had insisted/hoped/wanted us to remain friends - me too. I still care very much for her, but I think she feels that I was interferring in her 'new life' too much by calling her (to say hi, or to invite her for a drink). sat evening, she told me she was screening my calls - that made me angry (She wants to friends, but strictly on her terms, when and how it suits her - not very friendly I think). So, Sunday, I am still angry (she was still going to see me for a drink sunday - she calls at 4.30 pm, but I didnt get the msg until 6.30. THATS IT, I think......and then very stupidly start sms'ing her with no, i wont call you - you call me/why do you treat me like this (friends dont screen each others calls, etc)/etc, etc, etc ad nausea finishing with I still love you deeply - I am such an idiot). I was just crazy.
As if that wasnt bad enough, going thru a phone bill that I ahd to pay, I checked a couple of numbers that I didnt recognise. I called one of them and (Sh*t) her father answers. Not knowing what to do and not wanting to be rude (he's a nice guy) I explain the reason I am on the phone, he asks how things are, I tell him, we chat for 5 mins and hangup.
Obviously, XGF, was informed of this the next day & it was the last straw for her. She sent me a msg saying that she felt harrassed (sh*t - didnt want to do that, but I was very confused as to what she wanted from me)we should just move on with our lives (without each other in it) and to 'Please dont call me or my family.
My response? You guessed it - I instantly text her saying it was wrong and that she should let me explain, etc...ad nausea, I guess).......I just dont want 5 yrs of commitment end like this - it just doesnt seem right.
Bottom line is that she left me for another guy (whether she was having an emotional affair or a full blown 1 first doesnt seem to matter)
So, she seems to be either ignoring my requests or she has blocked my phone numbers from her phone (at work too, I think......probably blocked my email too - but I cant know cos she doesnt reply........I have been such a fool.
is she even worth my loyalty and (still held) devotion. I care for her very much - she seems to have found herself ' a holiday romance' or something. She always seems to be running away from something.....very sad)

anyway....there you have it. it seems to be totally over and irrepairable (bugger it).
any suggestions guys?
I need to get on with my own life in a very positive way now (3 mths have past by with me in limbo & I need some good things happening for me.......)
Help - Im still lost. CKTC - I will (havent started yet, but will look into IC as you suggested)

Later guys and thx

PLan A time??????!!!!!!???? (I was doing well for about a week and then lapsed on it.........and voila, the result)
How should I go into a proper, proactive, positive plan A - and get on with my life?
I am ready now (I think)
;-)

Chasing and pursuing a woman who is actiing distant from you NEVER WORKS. NEVER...

Women are attracted to confident, happy men with a backbone. You are acting like a love sick puppy dog. It is unattractive to her. Think about it... Get some backbone and be her FRIEND by giving her some space. Being a friend can also mean that you can leave them alone when they want space. What you are doing is not working. I would try something different if what I was doing was not working.

Hi Westy,

Thanks for the e-mail bro, and I'm glad to see you are still posting here.

One of the things you mentioned in your original post is that she had been telling you for a while what changes she needed you to make and you did not listen. When we first talked about this issue I gave you lots of advice, along with Octobergirl and Orchid on here, however you still continued to do what you felt was best in the situation. Somebody once said the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Although I often feel I am getting through to you, there is still a large disconnect between our conversations and your subsequent actions. I have been reading here a long time and know both of you personally, and people like Octobergirl and Orchid have an enormous amount of expertise, so please listen to us and ask our advice before taking action.

Also Westy, I have the benefit of speaking to you on the phone and knowing your background. The other people here need as many details as possible in order to help you. Post about your childhood, your work issues, the details of your interactions with her, and everything else you can think of which effects your situation.

In my opinion Plan A is going to be very difficult when she is already living with OM and there is no reason for continued contact between you two. Lat time we discussed her telling you not to contact her and your need to explain your feeling and actions to her. It seems that she is forcing you into Plan B at this point, so why don't you do it formally and write her a Plan B letter. There are many examples on this site and hopefully Mortarman, the Plan B guru, will also drop in and offer some advice.

Also if you cannot afford IC at the moment and it is not covered by your insurance, I would seriously check out your local church. I really think you would benefit from some spiritual guidance at some point.

Brother, I know you won't take this badly when I say that I believe alot of the issues in your relationship stemmed from you and that even if she took you back or you met somebody else today, you would be doomed to repeat the same mistakes unless you work on your personal and spiritual evolution.

One concrete step you could take is to draw up a list of the personal improvements you aspire to make and how you plan on acheiving them. This should not be some abstract notion for future self-improvement but an actual action plan with objectives and deadlines.

Although we both agree that her new relationship is doomed to failure, you are still not presenting yourself as a viable alternative. If you want her back, we need to make sure that you build a life that she wants to be a part of.

Its true (much to my shame....pathetic actually).
I just wanna scream sometimes, I act so stupidly.
You are totally right - right now, I am everything she detests (me too for that matter......& I suspect probably every other person alive on this planet - who wants to around a winer???? Not me)
I've just fallen down for the mo.
I do, however, feel some measure of strength returning to my soul (feeling that I havent had for a very long time)
The acute sense of responsiblity that I felt whilst wishing for things to b better (instead of striving - unfortunately & to b perfectly honest with myself) is starting to lift & I'm beginning to feel like its 'my time' again soon.
I act like a grade A chump sometimes.
I have been self destructive or self depreciative now for so long that its been hard to break the habit.