and Trix ... I agree with YOU .... this A did NOT" just start" by any means ... you can bet on it

~and~

I think Carnation is correct too ... NOT her apology, but her first post about bragging ---> I think MOST OF THIS MESS IS INTENDED FOR ED TO READ

a bit of tit-for-tat if you will... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Great post, mortar! I agree with you 100%.

I also had a few "offers" (I guess you would call them) when my husband and I were having problems and after we separated.

You know that little voice in the back of your head (Jiminey cricket!) that tells you "NO"? If that voice is telling you no it means you are thinking of doing something wrong. I am so glad I listened to that little voice.

While I understand (and believe) that abstinence until the D is final is the really the thing to do, as a BS, it MAY not be so easy...

Having taken the IMMENSE body blow of having the "love of your life" repeatedly fornicate other men...self-esteem is in the toilet. The need for validation by the opposite sex(for me) is very high right now...

Add to that the SUDDEN loss of regular and satisfactory SF and there is a potent "cocktail" for an A.

Avoiding places (like bars) is a big help, but should an "opportunity" present itself, it would be hard to resist.

I can only speak for myself as my STBXW will be 12,000 miles away in three weeks, but I'll still be M'ed until Nov/Dec. I find myself rationalizing that I can wait until she leaves...then I KNOW the M is done...freeing me of my loyalty obligation.

Getting back to that "opportunity", it would be VERY hard to resist.

I know, from the Biblical perspective, prayer SHOULD help, but with we agnostics, it's not much of an option

I'll be delicate by stating that self-gratification becomes increasingly shallow...it's like eating hamburger after living on filet mignon for 9 years! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Don't get me wrong...I am NOT looking, but should an "opportunity" fall in my lap, I like to think I'd be able to resist, but am honest enough to admit that I may not want to resist.

Thoughts anyone?

Scott

Scott

You are wearing the same philosophy today that enabled your affair-turned-to-marriage-with-affair-partner.

Which of course, is now developed into your current situation.... marriage-to-affair-partner-now-ruined-by-new-affair.

You are consistant. If an opportunity comes a knocking, inconvenient marriage vows will not stand in your way of a little pleasure.

You might want to think about attaching a *warning label* to yourself ...

*mariage vows are not necessarily going to be honored if I change my mind*

Laziness, Scott.

A's often start because of moral, or ethical if you prefer, laziness.

It's long hard work to withstand opportunity, and especially to avoid it in the first place.

Even when God grabs one by the scruff of the neck, as has happened to me on occasion, it’s ultimately laziness not to pay attention.

WHnowBS:

You are only done with marraige when it is over, not when you feel it is over.

Do agnostics have a set of virtures they seek to uphold? Is keeping your end of the marraige vow unbroken of value to your personal integrity?

This sums it up beautifully. As many people nearing the final divorce papers, FEEL it's over, but in actually it's not over yet - even if physically and emotional it's over.

2 x 4s accepted wholeheartedly...

Issues like this need the light of day to make them go away...

Once you guys "pummeled" my weakness...I saw it as such...weakness.

It's a daily struggle, but I have won every day.

This could become a recurring post...whine...pummel...better <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Thanks,

"For better or worse... for richer or poorer... in sickness and in health... 'til death do us part... or until I find someone better... or until I decide the marriage is 'over.'"

I guess those vows would put a little bit of a damper on the whole romantic aspect of getting married, huh?

And I definitely understand the mentality of "it's all over but the paperwork." I've been there. I did actually talk to a few guys and go on a couple of dates before it was final. It was a big mistake. One of the guys I was talking to was looking for a wife, and wanted to be married quickly. And I was considering it. Fortunately for me, a few things he said woke me up, and I realized I was falling for the same things I fell for when I got married, and though he initially seemed to be a much different person than my EX, deep down, he wasn't. I was headed down the road to a world of hurt worse than what I'd already gone through (and I wouldn't have thought that possible.)

No one here thinks she should suffer. I think most people agree she HAS suffered plenty, and deserves happiness. That's why we're upset about the advice she's getting to be happy and move on with the new guy. We DON'T want to see her get hurt. All the studies, all the statistics, and even most of the personal experiences tell us that getting involved with someone new too soon will only lead to hurt.

Even now.... I'm now dating someone. I didn't start seeing him until after the divorce was final, though it was very shortly after. He made it clear from the start that he was not looking for a serious relationship, that he would still be seeing other people as the opportunity arose. At the time, I was ok with that - after all, what better way to have a little fun and go out, while still giving myself the time to heal and be ready for a new relationship.

Now... I'm not so sure about that. I enjoy being with him, so I don't really want to call an end to it, but I'm realizing more and more that seeing him is affecting my willingness to go out with others. I'm beginning to think strongly that I'm more attached to him than I thought I would be, and that having a relationship that quickly did short-circuit some of the healing process for me. Now, at a little over a year after the divorce, I find I am frequently feeling upset all over again by my XH, even though we have NC. I'm still somewhat obsessed by what he is doing (and believe me, THAT one was a hard one for me to write.)

In short, I'm beginning to see that I probably extended my own pain by trying to numb that pain so early on instead of just working through it alone.

No one is being a stickler for rules just because they are there. But a whole lot of experience shows that there are very good reasons for those rules.

Excellent topic.

My latest observations regarding these boards, and the vast majority of new posters is this...They are not bothering to purchase, borrow, steal, check out from the library, a copy of Surviving an Affair. They are using these forums, and the tidbits of advice they get for their specific questions as a "Cliff Notes" version of the book which spells out the entire philosophy as set forth by Willard Harley.

This test we are in, to see if we have the proper amounts of mettle, knowledge and stamina to survive an affair, require more than a "Cliff Notes" education, IMHO.

Best wishes,
SD

I think there can be a theme for BS where they take up a mantra that mirrors the WS: I am doing this for me, I am moving forward for me.

A good question is, what should we strive to move toward?

You do not find happiness by persuing happiness, it is a result of a greater goal.

What you seek and why is important.

I am not sure why I feel the need to respond to this, but I do! My situation is still new and rocky, but I do have an opinion on this whole hooking up with other people while still legally married thing!

I think that no opportunity just happens. You have to create that opportunity. For example, as a married person who right now is very vulnerable because I am the BS, I would not frequent places like bars acting like a single person. Would I get some attention...probably...but why put myself in that position?? To make myself feel good...sure...but who am I hurting here? Not my WH because he could care less right now, but myself. I would know that one, I am betraying my marriage vows and I am so angry at my WH for already doing that why would I want to?? And two, I would eventually be hurt again and I have felt so much hurt from WH that I would not want to go through that any time soon!

I think some of the responses of well, you were betrayed so you have every right to do what you want, are coming from other BS who are still vulnerable and hurt. It is not coming from seasoned vets on the board that know it is wrong. Not only morally, but it is not ever going to work to be in a rebound relationship.

I just want to say that I appreciate all the people here who will stand up for what they believe is right, regardless of who they are talking to or what the situation. Adultery is not right for one and wrong for another. It is wrong...period.

Sometimes the advice here hurts, but boy is it dead on and is said in a way that those of us listening take note. Without this forum I would have no one to talk to and then I would be in a very sad state. Thank you.

Pep,

I slept on this last night to see if I changed my mind about your reply and I have not...

If I mistook your "intent", please disregard the below reply:

It seem that my honesty requires you to "color" me with ill-conceived notion.

I WAS a WH...I am not and will not be again...my post was HONEST, but you took it as a sign of lack of character (my assumption).



NOTHING has happened. I have not and will not violate my vows...what I wrote yesterday was a low point in my struggle with this issue and I get "warning label" suggestions from you?

It certainly can discourage honesty from people if you jump STRAIGHT to the unpadded 2x4.

Were I going to bars or other places to put myself at risk, I would say that unpadded 2x4 was well-warranted, but I am staying home a bit more than I should and don't think I deserved that.

Given your story earlier in the post, you yourself could have been labeled as requiring such a "warning label".

I think you came across as a bit "holier than thou" with your response when you admitted to doing worse than I have done...actually making a date (though unfulfilled), where I only think about it.

Do you see my point?

The reason I post these things here is that it "exposes" my struggle to the light of day, like an A, and it dies.

Yesterday was a bad day...

There will be more of them, but, on positive note, your post did get me "pre-programming" myself more, so SHOULD that untoward opportunity present itself, "I am sorry but I am still married" will coem out of my mouth.

Scott

noted

thank you

I have come to loathe entitlement be it from a WS or a BS.

" She was a crap wife so I deserved an affair !"
" he had an affair so I deserved to be happy with someone else "

People can and should do whatever they think is right, but it should NOT be out of a sense of false righteousness borne of entitlement IMO.

Scott ....

I think I hit you with someone else's 2X4 <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

For some reason, I thought you were one of the posters telling Kandi "You deserve to move on and date. Who cares you are not divorced yet."

My bad. I had you confused with someone else.

I apologize... and gratefully accept the warrented 2X4 to MY pretty head <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Let's apply MY warning label now

[color:"red"] *warning* swings wildly with 2X4 hitting innocent targets [/color]

How's that?

No worries...That explains a lot! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

It certainly seemed out of character for you, which is why I waited overnight before responding...

Communication is hard enough when face-to-face...add the Internet anonymity/no "body language" and things like this will happen. I am not sweating it...

we cool! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Even with the "oops"...some good came from it.

I am REALLY aware of my "urges" and how to handle (distraction is the best method) them in a productive manner until the day the D is FINAL.

Scott

Thanks Scott. Very generous of you.

Good posts.

I am just a little steamed at the continued justifications for affairs. Adultery is wrong, no matter where, when, how, or why.

And I never want to see one of our own get caught up in that. I was so close to being caught up into it just like Kandi did. I am thankful there were people here that had the guts to tell me the truth and keep me from going that route.

Kandi needs the truth...not hugs. Actually, she needs the truth...and then hugs.

In His arms.