TD,

I never posted to you before, because your story reminded me so much of mine that I didn't want to revisit all the pain... Suffice it to say that I suspected that your W was having an affair way before she started posting and accusing you of being not fully truthful, while failing to mention that she was actually having an affair.


Well, I am very skeptical of her sincerity and miraculous recovery. My own cynical outlook (borne out by observations on this board and my own experience with my ex) is that your W's initial pulling closer to you was caused by the OM suddenly disappearing. So to her, you became the one straw she was going to clutch to.

Now that she has had some time to think about it, she is realizing that you are not the OM, and she is stuck in "neither here nor there" land... She lost the OM (supposedly), but she is not sure she wants you. She is petrified of ending up all alone - that is common for someone who goes pre-discovery (i.e. having TWO people fill their needs) to post discovery (i.e. OP disappearing and spouse being hurt, to say the least).

This is all normal, and anyone who told you that withdrawal lasts two weeks is overly optimistic IMO. The first two weeks are, at best, chaos, before the initial dust settles. During that time, she may get close to you (for emotional support), push you away, and anything in between. Do not try to read her or understand her in this time. And do not trust a word she says - even if she does not lie to you, she has no idea what she really wants.

Assuming she is truly totally done with OM (and BTW, I would never assume that, and I would fully expect that within a few days they'll find a way to establish some off-the-record communications) withdrawal will last for many weeks or months. She will need to grieve over the loss of her perfect fantasy, and then, assuming you are the "model husband", she will need time to trust you to be able to meet her ENs. Don't make the mistake of hoping to be able to count on her for loving you or meeting your ENs in this time. She may do this occasionally, but it will be punctuated by relapses into nastiness and coldness.

My advice is to continue trying to improve yourself, but without asking for support from her. Be there to hold her when needed, cry with her when needed, etc, but let her deal with her own withdrawal. In the end, it will be her decision of what she wants, and the best you can do is be the best you can be.

In any case, prepare for a rollercoaster of many weeks, and do not try to question things on a day by day basis.

I hope this helped,

AGG

TD...
I started reading the replies and decided to just reply to you following my gut instincts.

First of all...
YOU DESERVE A BIG HUG!!! From reading what I have read, and listening to my heart, you have done everything to save your marriage. Unfortunately, with your wife's dishonesty: you were fighting a losing battle.

Can I offer you some advice that worked for me...
By pining, whining and being insecure: you are making the OM look like a treasure (which he probably is not).
I too was in a situation like yours. My FWH was sneaking around my back with someone you would never bring home to a family dinner, rather find on the corner of some busy city street at night.
One day, I got fed up! I told him blantlanty...
You want that piece...you can have her, and she can have you...because I am worth more than this (I was dying inside...) but I stuck to my guns. Guess what??? My FWH did a 360!!! We are now on the road to recovery!!! Miracles do happen...but you have to be a part of them.

So if your wife...wants to be with OM...send her on her marry way...soon she will see, it's not all roses there!!!

You are a great person and deserve to be loved...and cherished. It begins with you...so start to love yourself and demand nothing less from everyone else!!!

All my best,
K

I guess I have no idea what nasty comment is such a massive debate. But give me a break, no one acts well on d-day. We all have regretts of things we shouldn't have done or said.

He's here for help. He's trying. I'm so glad for that.

He's trying at his marriage, so many people don't.This guy deserves serious credit for trying. SHE is the WS.

Tired Dad:

Your marriage is saveable. You've both made mistakes, we all do. Are you guys in MC. It has helped me and my FWH so much in the past 9 months. Please try it!

I guess I don't understand why we are critiquing his past reactions.......it makes me want to never post on the EN board...holy crap.

I acted like a raving psychotic on more than one occasion since I discovered my H was having an affair...I guarantee you my behavior would rival TD's any day of the week....and believe that I have posted every nasty detail of it.

I was hurt, and I was lashing out, and I imagine TD was doing the same........it's a NORMAL reaction to the situation. It may not be the MB way, but it certainly isn't abnormal.

Now....that being said, it IS counterproductive.....it doesn't help a thing, but it isn't something we should be dwelling on......soooooooooooooooooo let's get past it and give him some advice he can actually use.

TD, try to keep the Lovebusters and Disrespectful judgements at bay.....you need to make your WW feel safe and loved. And it's REALLY hard, because she isn't going to be able to return the favor. This is the time to put your *taker* away, and put your *giver* into overdrive.

Good Luck Hon,

-Caren

Tired Dad, if you are still reading, please pay attention to these folks. They have been through exactly what you have been through, and are willing to encourage you and will help you through it.

Hmmm, I would say that the difference between "being" an abuser and "displaying behaviors" of an abuser is pretty small to begin with, but you went beyond saying that he simply "displays" abusive behaviors. You said that he is an abusive person (emphasis mine):


If you stated that he is an abusive person, how is that different from calling him an abuser? Is calling someone a "lying person" different from calling them a liar? Calling someone a "cheating person" different from calling them a "cheater"? Maybe I am having trouble understanding your use of these words, but it seems to me like you are now trying to call him an abuser without owning up to it.

You're right, I did say that in another thread -- I stand corrected and my apologies for not making that clear.

And to answer your question, yes there is a difference, a big one, between saying someone uses abusive behaviors and saying the person is abusive. I did say both of TD.

Nope, I'm not remotely trying to avoid owning up to what I said.

Well, mineownself - I just can't leave this alone. The responses on the EN thread were DISGRACEFUL. One of the posters wrote this to me (and you agreed) -

An unbelievable question from believer:


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Are you having either an emotional or physical affair? All of the signs are there.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



What signs, believer? She's emotionally detatched after 12 years of being treated poorly by her H (by his own admission), and the first thing you do is accuse her of cheating?

Emotional detachment is not exclusive to people having affairs. Sounds to me like 12 years of verbal abuse from the man finally got to her, and her efforts to try to reconnect have been rebuffed.

That said, emotional detachment can make an M vulnerable to an A, no question. But to automatically assume the worst and shoot off that kind of accusation so early in the game is, IMVHO, quite cruel and uncalled for.

And speaking of cruel and uncalled for - did you ever apologize to Tired Dad? Don't think so. Did you ever post to his wife, and let her know what she should be doing?

I thought you said you wanted to be done with this?

I can't say I'm following where you're going with what you're saying. You were complaining before about the responses to his TOS violations and attack on the board at large. Now you're talking about BT's thread, and seem to be looking for an explanation from me of someone else's post, which of course I can't give you. I did post that I agreed with that post, but I don't follow why you have a problem with it. I think it was very well put given what was known at the time.

What is it you're asking about me about apologizing to TD about?

Mineownself, I wonder if you have ever had adultry in your marriage and know what really happens.

Tired-Dad.

I have been both the WS and the BS. Let me tell you - you may have made some mistakes in your marriage, but when an A is taking place, a WS can almost egg you on, set you up to loose your temper as it helps them JUSTIFY more why they are having an A.

I set my H up ALL the time to loose his temper and react cruely...all I had to do was push the right buttons, and then wow - it only made me move further away...he had no way to win unless he walked away, but he sensed the affair and wanted to fight.

In recovery when my H decided to have an A, he did the same things to me, almost egging me on to leave so he wouldn't have to. He picked fights where he KNEW I would react emotionally, and when I react emotionally my tongue becomes a weapon and I say some pretty bad things, both H and I did that as BS, as both of us as WS's pushes eachother's buttons.

Also - When in an affair, the WS will always exagerate the negatives.

In reality my H and I had one BAD year, where he neglected me, but during my "fog" I was convinced it was the WHOLE marriage he had always been like that and I had made a mistake marrying him. The 12 years thing is a VERY common thing for women in Affairs and that's why believer brought it up. Most women who have men that are like that for that long, their husbands aren't on marriage builders forums trying to change...which led me to belive like believer there was more going on.

You have come to the right place now TD and people here can help you, as a A changes everything. It is more than just his needs, her needs.

mineownself - forget it. My first thought of not getting into a huge argument was the right one. Don't apologize to anyone.

Oh, absolutely I would not believe for a second anything BT has said in the last 3 months or so about "how bad" the past history of their marriage was, unless it was a reiteration of fact to which they both agreed. I'd dismiss it all as fogspeak, and I'd strongly encourage anyone else to take it with a grain of salt.

But if you read TD's posts, you see that he said repeatedly before any of this came up that she has been saying all through their marriage that she was unhappy and talking about why she was unhappy, but he was fine with that. That's neither new nor fogspeak.

LOL. I apologize for not being able to follow what you think is going on, because I really can't. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

depends on how long she has been in the fog and how long the A was taking place...

Also before my H found out about my A, he believed all the cruel things I said about him treating me leading up - for 6 years, he was devestated, he looked hard and could see what I was talking about, but never realized it was bad, etc...WHY? because it really wasn't as bad as I made it out to be. he just desperately wanted to hang on to me as he sensed something wasn't right, and tried so hard to figure out what he had done wrong, and I strung him along as it further justified me....

Isn't a possiblity his wife has been doing the same thing, and TD has been doing the same thing my H did, believing it all in attempts to try to salvage his marriage as she manipulates the situation?

Don't worry about it. We are going on 40 posts here (without imput from TD). Kinda reminds me of the EN board.

I am hoping that others here can help out Tired Dad. I am freaking done.

TD - hope you come back <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> This board is the right place for you to get through what you are going through - maybe your W will come post here too and many of us FWW can give her hand and support non-judgementally.

Welcome!

Is it a possibility? Sure.

Is this helping TD? I don't know for certain, but no, not in my opinion.

I'm interested in helping TD with some thinking and behavior patterns he has that are mucking up his life. Sure his wife's A is also mucking up his life. But enabling and encouraging his bad habit of minimizing his behavior and pointing fingers elsewhere is really the opposite of what I think is likely to help him. So I'm not interested in doing that.

Interesting. FWIW, I am a 'him'. But I assume you ain't talking about me...

Ok, lets see what T-D had to say: On behalf of T-D
[color:"white"] space [/color]

So, the thread that went on without T-D wasn't even 'his' thread to begin with!

I read T-D's reply to be an invitation to those he has 'met' on the EN's forum to come here and offer RH. If he told us he needed to 'vent', I'm sure no one would have a problem with that. It seems he's got plenty to vent about. He might not get many useful replies, however.

T-D, I will say again that I commend you for sticking it out through all this. I know that this is a good place for you to find support, advice, and a variety of POV's. You will need to use discernment to sift through some of what is written to find the nuggets of useful information & advice.

I join with everyone else who will be cheering for you, believes in you (and, if needed, will be admonishing you). You and your wife are in my prayers.

I see him actually taking responsibility of his contributions, and i see his behavior as being pretty normal for a betrayed spouse before they discover the affair - give the guy a chance to process this and get through it. I see his wife more being the finger pointer right now.

Leave him to us now and off you go to EN <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> He's in good hands here.