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Just know that she is not going to believe you that you are completely changed now. Continue to tell her that you want to change and learn and meet her needs. Don't expect her to respond quickly. She has to withdrawal from the other man. Don't push her sexually--YOu both have a lot of growth you need to make in this area. This is going to take a long time so be patient. Expect her to be a jerk--to be angry and withdrawn. Just don't push her. Encourage her to communicate --if not with you then with someone! She needs to talk about her sadness and her fears. Your porn addiction and her A have stolen all intimacy from your marriage. It will take so much time to regain it-and the trust too, for BOTH of you. Work on yourself and express to her that you are doing so. Good luck--I have so much hope for you!
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Good luck, and way to go! If you feel at any time during these couple of days like you're about to say something that will hurt her, is unfair, or is just in a non-pleasant tone of voice, pause, smile warmly at her, say you'll be back, and leave the room. Take as long as you need. Then when you come back, smile warmly at her again and say something pleasant, even if it's just "hi". Godspeed. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
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I know that I am placing myself in great risk to be betrayed again, but right now I feel that I need to do that if I really honestly want to try to save my M.
But right now I want to concentrate on her. I want to make her feel safe in coming back in to a marriage with me. [/color] Hooray for you! Perhaps you'll change your screen name one day soon. How about 'Revitalized-Dad'? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> [color:"white"] blank [/color]
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Two thumbs up, T-D. Two thumbs way up...
Me: 41, INFP
Her: 46, ESFJ
Married 6/95
B-G Twins
4 yrs recovered from serious neglect on my part.
So happy together!
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"Even though it is obvious and reasonable and logical that I cannpt 100% trust her, I also have to accept that unless I can accept what she tells me, and put my faith in it, our M has no chance."
Actually you can't trust her at all right now. She has not earned your trust.
Your wife is very uncomfortable with the things that have been posted here. And that is normal.
Go ahead, and do what you think you must. But I hope that you will contact the Harley's for counseling. You can try to do this on your own, but I doubt that you will be successful. I'm afraid that you will be back in 4 days with more bad news.
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Actually you can't trust her at all right now. She has not earned your trust. She did tell him about yesterday's phone call. That's a good sign, isn't it? A step in the right direction?
Last edited by cuthbert calculus; 08/09/05 01:27 PM.
Me: 41, INFP
Her: 46, ESFJ
Married 6/95
B-G Twins
4 yrs recovered from serious neglect on my part.
So happy together!
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Yep - a very good sign, and a step in the right direction.
Actually, I have a lot of hope for this marriage. I just think the TD's latest decision is a huge mistake.
I hope that he will call the Harley's. I never did. It seemed too expensive. Instead I ended up losing over $100,000. Also have paid over $2000. in mediation attempts, and another $2000. for the divorce so far.
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Actually you can't trust her at all right now. She has not earned your trust. I agree with this. Your wife is very uncomfortable with the things that have been posted here. And that is normal. I agree with this too. I'm afraid that you will be back in 4 days with more bad news. While it is possible that BT might engage in more hurtful behavior, it is not guaranteed, and we can hope with TD that she is able to cut contact. ~ZP
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ZP - I hope you are right. Just from my experience, and reading BT's posts, I think there is trouble ahead. But there was a lot of good advise given here, and hopefully it will carry them through.
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And they are starting MC in a couple of days, with a new counselor...
Me: 41, INFP
Her: 46, ESFJ
Married 6/95
B-G Twins
4 yrs recovered from serious neglect on my part.
So happy together!
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Tired_Dad:
I’m so glad that she told you; she didn’t have to. This does say a lot. Most people wouldn’t bother telling you that the OM called. I really do commend her for that. IMO, this speaks volumes for your recovery!
Withdrawal sucks, in a few months time, she will see this continued contact as wrong. That the correct response would have been, click.
I think her writing a NC letter is such a great idea, you read it over, and you send it. If she’s willing and serious about recovery, and I think she is, extreme measures should be taken that NC happens. Change your number, move, block his name from e-mail accounts, everything you guys can think of.
“And maybe a women who has been cheated on, like I have, will share my steadfast knowledge that I could NEVER do that. And that would help me feel more secure in the relationship.”
You took words from my mouth. I wonder that too, I’m nine months into recovery, and I still feel this once and awhile. It hurts so much that you wonder if the only safe, sane way to deal is travel life’s roads with someone who understands. Even so, I know there are really no guarantees, but gosh, some days it feels like, the odds would be better that way. I think you’d have to be in denial to not have these feelings; there normal. This relationship, or any new relationship will take serious work from now on. We no longer have our eyes closed.
“I was deeply unhappy for quite some time, and had told him many times "I can't live like this anymore, we have to do something" with little or no response on his part. “
Are you guys seeing a MC? Please do, these feelings will have to be dealt with. You may have been deeply unhappy, but trust me, your hubby was too. I was the one in my M saying, I can’t live like this anymore, but I didn’t seek counseling, I just complained. I am the BS. We need to learn to seek help when either of us starts feeling this way. It’s a great “warning” system that something’s off base, we need to fix something.
If anything, I know that Breaking Thread is seeing that although she didn’t say anything wrong, it still caused her husband pain. How would you feel if the roles were reversed? His reaction is normal, and eventually, hopefully, sooner than later, you’ll realize that this contact is harmful for both of you.
This can be a turning point for both of you. You both need to focus on your marriage right now, meet each others needs, make changes, and improvements, both of you. I see real hope here
BW-28-me
FWH-27
D-Day 10-04
Together- 13 yrs
Married- 4 yrs
EA- 3 months -turned into a weekend PA, he came home on Sunday and told me.
HS/College Sweethearts
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You have no idea what I am thinking or even remotely who I am. I am a unique individual who may respond to things differently than others in the same situation.
No, you are NOT unique. I know you better than you know yourself. In time you will know yourself better than I.
99.9% of ALL affairs follow the same pattern. We see them here daily. I am always 3 steps ahead of my WW.
Everytime something like this is posted, it causes huge distress for my H, and that leads to problems for us. I am sincere in my desire to save our marriage. I have no doubt about that. However, all the issues I had with my H before my affair are still there.
The ISSUES will NOT go away fast, they've become a bad habit. It takes time.
The first couple days after the affair was discovered, my H and I were both on emotional roller coaster, not to say that we aren't now, but that was an all time high.
Your husbands Rollercoaster was 100x worse than yours, trust me I've been there. Lost 15 lbs in 3 days and 66 lbs in 4 months.
I was so floored by his being able to be kind to me that gave me the ability to be more enthusiastic towards him, and it was sincere.
I'm glad you realize that us BS really do LOVE YOU.
Now, the real work has began, and although I am still very grateful for this second chance that I really don't deserve, I still have to deal with all the issues from pre-A.
As I said before, time, time, time,
There is an emotional wall there, and it's been there for quite some time. I had been asking H to go to couseling for years, had almost left several times in the past couple years, cried myself to sleep lots of nights. That stuff doesn't just disappear.
I can sympathize with you here.
So, no, I am not backpedaling about anything, I am just trying to deal with this chaotic mess of emotions inside of me the best that I can. It does feel ackward sometimes to be affectionate because it's been so long since we've been that way, but I am trying. I pray that the more we do it, the more natural it will feel. It is not a good feeling to feel ackward about giving affection to you husband, and I wish I didn't feel that way. I can't just be the person he needs me to be at the drop of a hat, but I can try my best to move towards being that person on a daily basis, and that's what I am doing.
I take things minute by minute, day by day. I can't look past tomorrow.
He has the huge issue of my affair to deal with, and it trumps all,
UNDERSTATEMENT of the CENTURY. Try and imagine your husband having HOT SEX with some HOT Blonde (like my WW) and telling her he has never had it so good. Multiply your pain x whatever when a Male ego is involved.
I am sure, but I have the issues of his pornography addiction and years of emotional unavailibility un his part, which have left lots of scars.
I'll never understand why some women get upset over pictures. Boys start looking at Playboy in grade school, it's almost a right of passaage to adulthood.
I have some fears, too, just like he does, but not for the same reason. I was deeply unhappy for quite some time, and had told him many times "I can't live like this anymore, we have to do something" with little or no response on his part.
Then you should have Demanded to see a MC or seperate, file for Divorce, etc... Having Sex with another man does NOT help.
My fear is that I give this marriage my all, and then I am the same lonely person I have been for a while a year from now.
Quit thinking about yourself for once, you sound like my Selfish, Self centered wife.
So 12 months is too much to ask after what you did to your family?
If the marriage FAILS then at least you can walk away knowing you gave it your ALL and can enter a new relationship with a lot of baggage discarded.
Dr Phil says YOU have to EARN your way OUT.
You have Earned NOTHING so far.
T_D says he will never go back to being the person he was to me again, and I know he is sincere in his belief, but the baggage I carry is going to take some time to get rid of, just like the baggage I have caused him to carry will take a lot of time to deal with.
Time will tell if he is sincere, if not, ADIOS. Don't let the Door hit ya.
You need time to heal also. Us BS don't hate you WS that much, we are still "IN LOVE" with YOU we just need time to heal.
My whole point in all this is that you do not know the dynamics of our marriage, or know T_D and myself, for that matter.
YES we do. Your NEEDS were unmet, end of story.
It is hurtful for me to be doing the best that I can in the situation I am, to really be giving my most sincere effort, and then have people on here tell him I am "backpedaling" or "leaving the door open."
We know for a FACT what works and what doesn't. That's why we are Experts. You are a Newbie to Adultery.
I want my marriage to work.
GOOD. You and your husband need to take a break.
Never talk, email, text message, or even think of OM again (LOL). Next time he calls be Ignorant and hang up without saying one word, he will eventually get "IT."
If he confronts you in person then **** *** ** *** **** <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
We start counseling Thursday, and hopefully they can guide us in the right direction as to how to deal with all this.
It's very SIMPLE. Make the Commitment to work hard on your marriage.
Both of you need to be Honest with each other, NO secrets in a marriage, period.
The marriage may FAIL but at least both of you can say you gave it your all.
Now go out and have dinner and take in a movie.
Don't forget to have sex to get rid of a LOT of TENSION. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
Last edited by Justuss; 08/09/05 06:35 PM.
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Responding to TA:
By BT: I am sure, but I have the issues of his pornography addiction and years of emotional unavailibility un his part, which have left lots of scars.
I'll never understand why some women get upset over pictures. Boys start looking at Playboy in grade school, it's almost a right of passaage to adulthood.
Wow. You CAN'T be serious! Is "spreading her legs" also a right of passage into adulthood for girls? Give me a break.
BT has every right to be concerned about the issue of pornography. It is a HARMFUL thing. Besides, if it's in her marriage and she doesn't want it, she DOESN'T have to put up with it.
However, I urge you, BT, to make respectful requests and explain why it hurts you. I think you can do that, yes?
My fear is that I give this marriage my all, and then I am the same lonely person I have been for a while a year from now.
Quit thinking about yourself for once, you sound like my Selfish, Self centered wife.
TA, do you not think BT's is a legitimate fear? I suspect, and appreciate, that TD also has a similar fear. What if it doesn't work? That COULD happen. I do agree with you that it's most likely worth a shot, but that doesn't rule out having fears about the whole deal, does it? Neither of them are perfectly safe--yet.
We know for a FACT what works and what doesn't. That's why we are Experts. You are a Newbie to Adultery.
Well, actually, I see a LOT of inexpert advice on this thread, including, but not limited to, your callous comments on pornography.
~ZP
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We know for a FACT what works and what doesn't. That's why we are Experts. You are a Newbie to Adultery. Erm, no, not by a long shot. TD and BT, if you want an expert, set up phone counseling with Steve Harley. None of us here qualify. It's true you can get some brilliantly helpful insight here, but expert it's not.
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We know for a FACT what works and what doesn't. That's why we are Experts. You are a Newbie to Adultery. Erm, no, not by a long shot. TD and BT, if you want an expert, set up phone counseling with Steve Harley. None of us here qualify. It's true you can get some brilliantly helpful insight here, but expert it's not.
Affairs are Not Unique.
Affairs destroy families.
Affairs are Never good.
Affairs are Not the answer to marital problems.
The FOG TALK and Actions
Exposure is Good.
Plan A is Good.
Plan B is Good when necessary.
Self improvement is necessary on both sides.
MC is necessary in most cases.
IC is also good.
I can go on and on.
I have spoken to Steve and Dr Harley about 12x and I fully understand the basics of breaking up affairs and trying to reconcile and rebuilding the marriage.
The Harleys can help us figure out what is really going on and how to Fine Tune these concepts.
I have read a dozen books by the Harleys, Dave Carder, Shirley Glass, etc...
I have spent hundreds if not a thousand hours in the last year on Marriage building sites learning how to cope with affairs.
I have also been thru this nightmare, the Harleys NEVER have. Steve confirmed he feels peoples pain but he will never claim he can ever fully understand what is is like.
If feel I am an Expert at the basics of affairs.
They follow a script almost to a T. My wife followed the script, I'm always 3 steps ahead.
Check out Gramms thread, is his wife NOT Textbook?
I can tell you for a FACT that I am more Qualified than 90% of the Quack doctors and counselors out there to give marriage advice.
I went to 3 MC before I contacted the Harleys. I had already read the books. These *** MC know nothing, they suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck. This is an understatement. I feel most MC is a Huge Mistake and will ruin any chance for reconciliation unless it is done by the Harleys or someone who understands the True concepts of affairs.
Our first woman MC was a Man hater (found out later she was divorced, my other 2 MC were also divorced, what a joke) who did volunteer work at a Battered Womans shelter (she always blames the man) I had NO idea. This *** talked to my wife for 20 minutes while I waited outside. She called me in and without even Talking to me at ALL said "in my opinion I think it is best if the two of you move forward and get a Divorce." I almost broke her *** neck. She based our entire 28 year marriage upon FOG talk from my wife, what about my opinion? This friggin***told me she had read Dr Harleys books and was aware of his concepts.
I went back to her office the next day and raised **** in front of all the office staff. She then confessed that she has NEVER read Dr Harleys books but was aware of SOME of his concepts. This was the only reason I chose this ***. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
I told her I was going to Report her to the proper State authorities and her clinic board that she was NOT qualified to give MC and should be shot. I asked her "how many families and children have you destroyed." She stood there like a deer in the headlights, her eyes started to water. I told her I had no problem if she gave us that advice "after" we had done homework and tried to work on the marriage. But NOTHING, just *** leave after 28 years based upon what an Alien told her. What the ***!
For one month by wife believed this so-called profesional counselor, that indeed our marriage was doomed.
My wife then talked to Steve Harley for 45 minutes and everything changed. My wife started to believe that "maybe" this marriage was salvageable.
After following the MB concepts, losing 66 lbs, working on myself and doing everything in my power our marriage now looks like it is going to make it.
Several days ago my wife BEGGED me to stay together, she was crying and very upset that I wanted to leave. My wife said she "never knew I loved her this much, how could I forgive her, how could I ever Trust her again, will I hold this affair over her head forever, etc..."
So much for the so-called professionals.
I consider myself more qualified than 90% of these quacks.
Last edited by Justuss; 08/10/05 08:28 PM.
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Responding to TA:
By BT: I am sure, but I have the issues of his pornography addiction and years of emotional unavailibility un his part, which have left lots of scars.
I'll never understand why some women get upset over pictures. Boys start looking at Playboy in grade school, it's almost a right of passaage to adulthood.
Wow. You CAN'T be serious! Is "spreading her legs" also a right of passage into adulthood for girls? Give me a break.
BT has every right to be concerned about the issue of pornography. It is a HARMFUL thing. Besides, if it's in her marriage and she doesn't want it, she DOESN'T have to put up with it.
However, I urge you, BT, to make respectful requests and explain why it hurts you. I think you can do that, yes?
My fear is that I give this marriage my all, and then I am the same lonely person I have been for a while a year from now.
Quit thinking about yourself for once, you sound like my Selfish, Self centered wife.
TA, do you not think BT's is a legitimate fear? I suspect, and appreciate, that TD also has a similar fear. What if it doesn't work? That COULD happen. I do agree with you that it's most likely worth a shot, but that doesn't rule out having fears about the whole deal, does it? Neither of them are perfectly safe--yet.
We know for a FACT what works and what doesn't. That's why we are Experts. You are a Newbie to Adultery.
Well, actually, I see a LOT of inexpert advice on this thread, including, but not limited to, your callous comments on pornography.
~ZP Spreading your Legs is Physical and being intimate on an emotional level in most cases. I agree that looking at porn can cause problems in a marriage, but not always. Just like alcohol can cause problems but for most people is is no big deal. I have no problem if my wife watches porn as long as that is where it stays and she is having sex with me. My wife was attending a bacholerette (sp) party once and they were going to have a male stripper who was going to strip all the way. My wife asked if I had a problem with this and I said no. Mabye some women get offended because many of these porn stars have near perfect bodies, I'm not sure. My wife has a damn near perfect body so maybe she doesn't feel threatened. My wife and I haved watched porn movies in the privacy of our own bedroom and it was a turn on. Sometimes it can give your sex life a headstart. Like I said, everyone is different. My wife and I think it is no big deal. I think most women make waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to big a deal out of men looking at pictures. Who care if she is Lonely in one year? This is the Price you pay for adultery. Like Dr Phil says, "you have to earn your way out, there is NO easy way. This takes time, anywhere from 2-5 years to fully get over the divorce or to reconcile the marriage. You have no choice if you want to lead a fulfilling life."
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I can tell you for a FACT that I am more Qualified than 90% of the Quack doctors and counselors out there to give marriage advice. ~*~*~ coffee spew ~*~*~ Nope...I am not buying it. If that were so...you would not be in the place that you are right now. And pardon me for saying so...but you do give the appearance of someone who is a know-it-all and someone who thinks they have the answer to everything. You throw that word *fact* around like you are sitting on the "World Book of All Facts". The problem is, you seem to make them up as you go along. Yes, your posts have rubbed me the wrong way for a while now, I have never said anything until now. Your attitude doesn't serve others well. It must be totally self-serving. committed
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Hay TA,
TD's thread already spiralled into a hash-bash before. Want to start a new thread if you want to deal with someone's posts in particular and we'll leave supporting TD here?
Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we are here we might as well dance!
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I can tell you for a FACT that I am more Qualified than 90% of the Quack doctors and counselors out there to give marriage advice. ~*~*~ coffee spew ~*~*~ Nope...I am not buying it. If that were so...you would not be in the place that you are right now. Hello, anyone home? If I had read the books PRIOR to this affair then YES I wouldn't be here. If this marriage doesn't work out then my next marriage will be much better and I doubt this would ever happen again. And pardon me for saying so...but you do give the appearance of someone who is a know-it-all and someone who thinks they have the answer to everything. After dealing with 3 MC (so-called professionals at $165 hour) I do consider myself more qualified than them. You throw that word *fact* around like you are sitting on the "World Book of All Facts". The problem is, you seem to make them up as you go along. Please tell me what Fact was made up as I went along. I'll be waiting. Yes, your posts have rubbed me the wrong way for a while now, I have never said anything until now. Your post rubs me the wrong way also. Your attitude doesn't serve others well. It must be totally self-serving. Explain your concept of self serving.
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Hello, anyone home? If I had read the books PRIOR to this affair then YES I wouldn't be here. If this marriage doesn't work out then my next marriage will be much better and I doubt this would ever happen again. Hello...! I have seen many births, I have read many books on births....it doesn't make me more qualified than an Ob/Gyn to deliver a baby. Even though, I DID stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> Please tell me what Fact was made up as I went along. I'll be waiting. The wait is over...the FACT that you could counsel better than 90% of the marriage counselors out there..sheesh. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> Explain your concept of self serving. Self-serving...let's see...in relation to you it would be... that you KNOW(for a fact) that you know people on this site better than they know themselves... that you know (for a FACT)that you could counsel marriages better than 90% of QUALIFIED counselors. I suppose you KNOW...for a FACT that porn in marriages is NOT harmful...if the woman would just get over it....huh? I'm finished with this.... committed
Last edited by Justuss; 08/10/05 08:31 PM.
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