If you are not feeling really nutz or sick ... Then it's just fine to continue ~as is~ for awhile ... sort of see what happends next.

He "called her" behind my back. A team does not do behind the back stuff.

I feel sick. I am not eating much and my dreams have been getting worse.

True.

The real question is about YOU though .... where are you on the BS nutty scale?

Want to punch his lights out~~~

or

Want to attract him back in ~~~

Or somewhere inbetween?

I assume he's lost and messed up .... but what about you?

I see ... we were cross posting.

What is your preference? Given today's choices.

Loy,

It makes perfect sense from WHs perspective if:

a) He knows you check his cell records and
b) He thought by using a calling card that OWs phone number won't show up on the cell records when you check them.

I guess I am confused, too, as to the cell not working in a bad reception area. I am in bad reception areas at times, too, and my cell doesn't work, period. Have to go to a pay phone and use a calling card in that instance.

Are you saying he used a payphone? If not, and he used the calling card from his cell, I think he only did it to try to hide the number from you.

Then he says he did call her, but hung up. Uh, no. A two=minute call implies that he at least left a voice mail message or told him to call him at another number... the hotel where he was staying, perhaps?

I think you can see, I think it is still/back on. I agree with the others. If your love bank is dangerously dwindling, then go to Plan B. If you can Plan A longer, great. But look for proof. PI sounds promising to me.

~ Snow

hMM,
Loy, as others have mentioned... you know your in recovery when you know you are there. If you aren't there, then you still have a WS. There is no LIMBO. You are either working on or against your marriage. If you don't have full knowledge of your husbands commitment to you, and have suspicious questions, and find even more suspicious answers to your questions, you aren't in recovery. Recovery is where both individuals are committed to trying to fix things, not complicate them.

I think your WH needs a wake up call. Something in the tune of locked doors after his next business trip. (That might be extreme, but, I think the point is clear.)

Hang in there.

Yesterday I felt fine, I have been realing trying to examine the Harleys' affair book and he talks about how in plan A, you are supposed to ask the WS about their day. You are supposed to check up on them. What I am having a hard time with is the stomach to check up on stuff. Having to worry about subterfuge is exhausting and that is what drives me crazy.

I am very good at blocking stuff out and could last longer in Plan A if I "didn't really know for sure".

I think I should start doing the preparation for Plan B and keep my eyes peeled. It scares me to think about it, but if WH hasn't yet hit rock bottom - the bottom might have to come up and get him.

I am not yet ready for plan B. Today. But I may be by the end of the week.

I shouldn't talk about Plan B, but should I bring up my concern that he may still have a double life?

I asked him to look at the contract my MC put together this Saturday... I could also ask him about that.

Or maybe I just PI

I shouldn't talk about Plan B

that's correct .... no warning

but should I bring up my concern that he may still have a double life?

I wouldn't do that either. Just meet his ENs and make yourself as attractive as possible.

I asked him to look at the contract my MC put together this Saturday... I could also ask him about that.

Ask him if he is interested in working on something important to the marriage. If he says "No, not yet." .... hold off. Give him the opportunity to do the right thing ... but don't push.

Or maybe I just PI

That's entirely up to you.

I will focus on making myself as attractive as possible for him and me. I might get a little bitter if it's just for him.

We did have a nice silly night last night. It wasn't huge, but it was silly. WH really enjoyed putting the girls to bed last night, and he took a long time putting our big girl "I'm two and a half" to bed.

Give him the opportunity to do the right thing? I am so focused on moving forward that I instinctively see all delays as anti-marriage. I am very sensitive on this point. I do not want to be controled by this and I don't want to ignore it.

I did ask him about the recovery contract I gave to him on Saturday and he said that he had not looked at it. He said it's not the sort of thing he's into but if it will help me... (this is the type of thing that makes me feel put on the shelf because it feels like he feels he can't say no, but he doesn't want to, so he delays without committing. My problem is that I do not know how to follow up effectively to this strategy. My usual behavior is to let WH change the subject and then get the courage up to ask again in a week or two. This has not been working for me.

I did ask WH this morning at 6:30 a.m., why did you get the calling card? He said, I don't know.



So the objective of this question to give WH the opportunity to express his interest or desire on rebuilding the marriage?

That's interesting. Questions that give WH an opportunity to be honest without me asking him specifics and without me getting frusterated that he is avoiding. The chance to open up without a direct request from me sounds like a good 180 for our relationship.

I need to draft some example questions to try out the new style. If you have more suggestions to help me get the flavor, I would appreciate it.

I will focus on making myself as attractive as possible for him and me. I might get a little bitter if it's just for him.

Why be bitter for becoming attractive?

This is not a rhetorical question by the way.

I think the bitterness is born of your expectations that if you do "x" your H should do "y". Your expectations give rise to your bitter feelings, not your attractiveness. Make sense?

We did have a nice silly night last night. It wasn't huge, but it was silly. WH really enjoyed putting the girls to bed last night, and he took a long time putting our big girl "I'm two and a half" to bed.

Don't you just love this sort of moment? What a great Plan A moment.

Give him the opportunity to do the right thing? I am so focused on moving forward that I instinctively see all delays as anti-marriage. I am very sensitive on this point. I do not want to be controled by this and I don't want to ignore it.

One of the things that attracts me to you Loy is this willingness of yours to look at yourself and re-focus on yourself if asked to. I am very impressed. Most BS yammer on and on about what WS is doing, saying, thinking, feeling .... and it is POINTLESS dribble.

YOU, on the other hand, do a darn good job of looking at what you are doing wrong.

I love and respect that!

I did ask him about the recovery contract I gave to him on Saturday and he said that he had not looked at it. He said it's not the sort of thing he's into but if it will help me... (this is the type of thing that makes me feel put on the shelf because it feels like he feels he can't say no, but he doesn't want to, so he delays without committing.

I ran face-first into this issue myveryownself recently.

Wanting to control the timetable of his willingness to do the work is a very common BS anxiety.

I am right there with you.

This can be approached with a non-anxious attitude. Much MUCH more difficult, I know, but it is a good exercise for us to control our controlling. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

My problem is that I do not know how to follow up effectively to this strategy. My usual behavior is to let WH change the subject and then get the courage up to ask again in a week or two. This has not been working for me.

Can you explain to your H how waiting for him to feel like having this discussion increases your insecurity and anxiety?

You can offer this to him on a plate that says ... "Help me. This delay is causing me discomfort. Can you help me extinguish my anxiery?"

How does that sound (to you) as a strategy?

So the objective of this question to give WH the opportunity to express his interest or desire on rebuilding the marriage?

egg-zak-lee

Isn't that what you really seek anyway?

Keep this up for awhile.

It's going to take some time to ferret out what his actual feelings and desires are.

And, in my opinion, this will strengthen YOU in a way that makes YOU a better spouse in RECOVERY ... which requires respectful communication techniques and ~patience~ for the slowness of recovering intimacy.

Loy

What is often overlooked about true intimacy....

It requires mature self-control of our personal anxieties and fears.

Without that self-control ... closeness is more like a pacifier for anxiety.

Right! The idea of being my best for someone who may not appreciate it is risky. I am wary of competing with a fantasy and I don’t want my efforts to be wasted. A part of me is tired of trying to woo WH and not succeeding. I had changed my goal to avoid bitterness but maybe I should change my expectations. I expected WH to immediately appreciate me and love me if I was attractive and was mad that he still lamented about how he felt no passion for me. Maybe I should just expect to enjoy my time with WH.

Physically I am very attractive. However, it is hard to be alluring with money concerns looming and fear of further deceit. Not the greatest ingredients for having fun. There are some unpleasant projects that need to be completed and we are both procrastinating.



Thank you. I have been working very hard on trying to notice my role in my life, and your encouragement makes me feel as if I am on the right path. Its like learning a new language. There is so much more to this than I ever expected. Its an entirely different type of responsibility.



A non-anxious attitude will help me not want to control the recovery timetable? Does changing your expectations on this issue help as well? I am guilty of measuring my WH's actions or delay of actions in recovery as an indicator of his desire for us and our family. I want the timetable to be on a fast track so that I will feel that I am and we are important to him. This is why I am anxious, because I want to know if he is able to become a team with me. I think he may be anxious himself to be on my team.



Here is my attempt at offering this up to him on a plate:

Loy to WH: Can you help me? I am so focused on moving forward that I instinctively see any delays as anti-marriage and anti-me. I don’t know how to deal with my anxiety on this and it is exhausting. What should I do?



Wow. That is great. It's going in my list of quotes I like.

*thumbs up* and *snaps*

You are definately a winner Loy.

NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENDS

YOU have a winner's attitude!

YOU are getting *it*

This is great. Men are such "fixers" by nature.

Susan <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

One of my all time favorite

*chick flicks*

hard to find..... not available on Netflix or DVD .... yet

it's called

Enchanted April

Has some great sceens involving a wife struggling to let go of her marriage resentments and expectations.

Try to find it .... it's for YOU not your husband.... unless he expresses interest in the chick flick LOL <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Susan: Appealing to his fix it nature. I have heard this, but not really seen it. Just last week I had a crisis at work and WH went out of his way to support me, call me and make me dinner, and buy wine and fancy cheese to try and make my day better. Just last Monday this happened.

And then on Wednesday I found the calling card and lost sight of all of the nice Monday support. Not sure how to evaluate the marraige with all of these + and -. Should I be measuring? Do I believe that every encounter will predict our future and is that why I get anxious?

I gotta chill.

Enchanted April. I have not seen the DVD; but I'm going to! I have seen the play, WH was in a recent production of it here. He played the owner of the Italian Estate.

Wisteria.