myrta

i do think that is how my husband feels.

it doesn't seem to matter how many times i tell him that i've forgiven him or how much i chage to try to be a person who could meet his needs and make him happy.

isn't it so sad that he's so wrong about what we could have together now?

that's why i'm fighting so hard because I know he's wrong.

I read hundreds of affair emails.

All the emails were about the romance of the century and high caliber SF.

And then the affair ended with one simple phone call. They say affairs end when exposed to daylight. This one ended instantly with exposure to me------- the BH.

Affairs seem to have a LARGE component of BULL$HIT. I cannot imagine having a romance like that and then having to return to my spouse. However, many WS return to the marriage. We the BS will never understand and must accept the fact that it is BULL$HIT.

I am glad many WWs accept the fact that they were in the A for the SF. It seems that other WWs are always saying that SF was bad, but I doubt it. It may be mediocre the 1st few times, but once there is familiarity and complete emotional intimacy the SF is of very good quality. SF with a NEW body is always exciting----- no doubt about it. The BS (THE OLD) cannot compete with the NEW and that is the main lure of the affair.

So maybe I can add a few more questions:

1. Why give up the A to return to the marriage?
2. How difficult was it to engage the BS (THE OLD) in SF after the thrill of SF with the NEW?
3. Why some show guilt after SF with OP whereas others justified the act by thinking “it was meant to be, soul mates, ect”?
4. Why do some confess whereas others have to be caught?

1. No. It was great.
2. Ditto LowOrbit’s answer.
3. Enjoyable.
4. Yes.
5. IMO women control sex. All sex. There isn’t a woman out there, no matter how tall, short, fat or skinny that can’t go out right now and have sex. Men, on the other hand, spend 9 months trying to get out and the rest of their lives trying to get back in. My screwed up thinking at the time told me to take advantage of the opportunity while it lasted.



1. It was wrong and I eventually saw that. Felt remorse and wished I could take it all back.
2. Not difficult. See answer #5 above.
3. People are different.
4. I confessed after my son was born. It was one of the hardest things to do and it ended my M. Others may be in different stages when/before they are caught.

ok Question 1..

yes it did, it wasn't what I was really seeking; So I 'turned off/suppressed' my emotions

Question 2
Hurry up and get it over with or not much of anything

Question 3
No to both. It was just something I did to keep the OM meeting my other needs at the time. In other words I felt I had to keep him happy so as to keep getting what i thought I needed.

Question 4

Not until the 6th week when it ended. I was emotionally numb up until then. Once it ended I realised what I had done and I can't describe the guilt & self loathing.

Question 5

Not relevant to me but doubt I could have unless some sort of emotional/sexual bond had been formed. It wasn't thank God, just friendship that had to end.

Hope it has helped in some way.

My answers on this lovely Tuesday morning <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

1. Did it petrify you when the A advanced to a PA?

Yes. I never thought it would get this far, and here it was, time to go all the way...even while I was having the PA, I was kicking myself saying - what the H*ll are you doing dorry!

2. What were you thinking during the sex?

How am I not going to get caught, how can my marriage ever be saved now that I have done this, why am I doing this, is this really what I want, do I look okay?

3. Was the sex enjoyable or disappointing?

It wasn't as good as I thought it may be...but I also didn't really want the PA part. OM was a very sexual person, and only when the talk was sexual did he talk all sweet with me...so when in person, when we didn't touch sexually, just like online when we didn't talk sexually, I didn't hear all those wonderful things he told me...so sex with OM all in all wasn't that great - but it served a purpose.

4. Did you feel guilty?

The minute I got home I did, but then justified it away and got a entitlistic view of it...but the guilt crept up every once in awhile and was hard to dela with. Towards D-Day I really was feeling guilty and wanted out - but every attempt I had to end it failed. The horrible guilt came once H found out. And to this day I still feel ashamed and guilty over it, but I have also forgiven myself for it.

5. If the PA continued even though you felt guilty or sick then why did you continue with it?

H doesn't understand this. For me, it was an EA for 6 weeks, with a few online webcam moments where OM masterbated, and one in life kiss, and then twice sex - one day after the next. I felt horrible on the first night after it was a PA. Horrible too because I let it happen in a CAR of all places - I thought - boy I am sure not a classy person anymore...the next night though, I knowingly went to his house while I knew his wife was out, to say goodbye as I was going back home the next day. I went not really thinking I would let it become a PA again. Actually, I went firmly saying it wouldn't be - that it would be like when we are online...and jsut talk sexually. But once again, we sat there and he said nothing...but when i turned on the sexual talk and heat, then all of a sudden I got to hear all the things I wanted to hear. After I left that night, I vowed to not be alone with him again...however I did horrible things like invite him and his wife up to our house for the weekend 2 weeks later, He did try and kiss me late at night in my bathroom, but I pushed him away and said not in my house. Still - the flirting that went on in front my husband I am so ashamed of.

1. Why give up the A to return to the marriage?

Well in my case, I never did NOT want my marriage. I wanted my marriage the whole time, but due to my negative cycle of thoughts, I had convinced myself that my H wasn't in love with me and it was HIM who was married to ME out of convience. I wanted to feel loved, but I also wanted my marriage. i was sadly the ultimately cake eater.

2. How difficult was it to engage the BS (THE OLD) in SF after the thrill of SF with the NEW?

H immediately started communicating with me in bed which was something that hadn't happened in years. And so all of a sudden, SF was the best I had ever had. My H became an amazing lover as we actually started talking about our needs in bed. Luckily though, OM wasn't as attractive as my H, and SF with him wasn't mindblowing and it wasn't lovemaking with OM. I wanted the emotional connection during SF...and my H was able to give me that connection...while OM wasn't

3. Why some show guilt after SF with OP whereas others justified the act by thinking “it was meant to be, soul mates, ect”?

I knew OM and I WEREN'T meant to be - sadly I knew what he was about as much as I still continued with the A. I was affair #4 or #5 on his wife of 6 years. She knew about 2 and thought they had recovered. He told me he would leave her for me, but I laughed at him and said no, I am outta your league. It's a nice dream, but if it came down to it, I will always pick my husband as he is the type of man I want to be with and love. I told OM I will do anything to make H fall back in love with me (yes yes fog thinking as this was NOT the way to make H fall in love with me)

4. Why do some confess whereas others have to be caught?

God I wish I could go back. I was given the chance to confess on the weekend OM and his family came up...and I boldface lied as OM was in the house and I didn't want to cause trouble. After that I tried to end it, and I knew I I had to tell H, but I couldn't get the courage. A week before D-day I gave H the whole I love you but don't love you as a cry to him to help me work on the marriage, and he jumped on it. We booked MC, and I figured okay - I will get the councellors help in ending this and telling my H...and would just hold on for 3 weeks....then on a Friday night, H was following his suspicions and monitored an MSN conversation between OM and I...and showed it to me, in which I confessed after being caught. It still took me 4 weeks to be honest about the details, but NC took place the next day and I always stuck with it, even when OM kept trying to contact me, I let H deal with it, and eventually we together told his wife to help with NC.

Dorry,

"...do I look okay?"

LOL <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

well lol - there is the fact that I don't worry too much what I look like with my H, and in a relationship like that - those nervous thoughts cross your mind, am I attractive, do I look good? Sad, but definately thoughts in my mind at that time....

From these questions I have some conclusions:

1. The only WWs who don’t think SF was great did not go beyond the 1st awkward sessions. The ones that stopped there don’t have good memories of SF. I still think SF with the NEW is a unique experience difficult to replicate in al old marriage. The NEW would have to be an extremely poor lover for not been to compete with the old W or H.
2. The WS that come back to the marriage with a lot of motivation are the cake-eaters. They never intended to leave the marriage and recognized OP was not an outstanding person even during the A. Nevertheless they said the right words to the OP.

I have so many questions for WWs (including my wife):

[b]


1. One minute after D-day my wife was ready to make passionate love to me with an energy and enthusiasm never seen before. If I had asked my wife for SF one minute before D-day she would have rejected my advances. Can anyone explain this? Is that the mind of a cake eater?


2. When my wife took the EN questionnaire she found no deficits in her needs. Should we add lust to the EN list? I think that was the one missing.


3. I have a theory regarding guilt. It likely has to do with ability to have compartments or different personalities. The one-compartment folks rarely get thru the 1st stages of the affair. Is ability to create compartments a factor?


4. What was the reaction of OP when affair ended after D-day? What about all the things that were said? My wife already explained this to me, but it would be nice to hear from others. How did the OP take the break up?


5. How persistent was OP to re-start the affair?


6. IS there any advantage for the BS to confront the OP?


7. Why does the WS wants to avoid a confrontation between OP and BS?

"7. Why does the WS wants to avoid a confrontation between OP and BS?"

Simple, my wife was afraid I would pummel him and end up in jail. Not easy to recover a marriage from a cell with a roommate named "Tiny".

Tiny????

1. One minute after D-day my wife was ready to make passionate love to me with an energy and enthusiasm never seen before. If I had asked my wife for SF one minute before D-day she would have rejected my advances. Can anyone explain this? Is that the mind of a cake eater?

I don't know - I was actually encouraging more SF during the EA part, as I really wanted to get my H to fall in love with me (although that was FOG talk, and my H did love me but instead was freaked by my behavior). I do know that after D-Day though I was much more open to alot more umm creativeness in bed? Mostly because I wanted to do anything to help make my H feel special again, cause of course the specialness of our making love had been tainted by the fact i had sex with another man.


2. When my wife took the EN questionnaire she found no deficits in her needs. Should we add lust to the EN list? I think that was the one missing.

I had a full EN list...I definately had deficits...but they were also grossly amplified, and weren't really as bad as I made them out to be until I was fully out of the fog and could see there was alot more going on IN ME, then just my needs not being met.


3. I have a theory regarding guilt. It likely has to do with ability to have compartments or different personalities. The one-compartment folks rarely get thru the 1st stages of the affair. Is ability to create compartments a factor?

I did keep OM seperate from H, except I tried to make them be friends - so H would approve of him, so it would be closer? I don't know my reasoning for that - but I kept my relationship with OM, and my relationship with H completely serpreate. When I was with H in bed, OM never was in my mind or my thoughts...when I spent time with H, OM was not "there" in my thoughts. I only got to SF twice...but the EA was a total of 2 months before I was caught.


4. What was the reaction of OP when affair ended after D-day? What about all the things that were said? My wife already explained this to me, but it would be nice to hear from others. How did the OP take the break up?

Well, he cried, and i did it on the phone. He said he understood, but would always be here if things didn't work out. On the phone I said I would miss him, and that I am sorry for hurting him...and I even did say if things didn't work out maybe one day I would look him up (oddly I didn't mean this, as I was relieved to get out..but I also didn't want to hurt OM at the time) OM kept contacting me through a forums we went to together, making sure I was okay - beginning it with - I know no contact, but I am worried as you seem to have disappeared...everytime I let my H handle it, until 1 month post d-day we told his wife and sent a very BLUNT NC letter, and have never heard from him since.


5. How persistent was OP to re-start the affair?

he never seemed to persist to re-start the affair, but definately persisted in trying to keep me in his life.


6. IS there any advantage for the BS to confront the OP?

well, I do believe if H and OM met face to face, my H would be in lock up - this is no exageration, as my H is ex-special forces, and has no problem with that sort of thing. would there be an advantage? My H might have felt better....but I don't think that would have been an advantage.


7. Why does the WS wants to avoid a confrontation between OP and BS?

To be honest, I just didn't want to lose my H to jail time, that was my ONLY fear. In the beginning before the full truth was out - I was more scared he would believe OM over me...of OM gave him a new detail...but once it was all out- I had no fear of them talking - if he wanted to do so over the phone that was fine. I did not want them meeting face to face, not for OM's safety, but for the fact that I know my H could seriously hurt him and get in trouble.

Dorry:

You are a talkative FWW---- how precious. BTW, my wife talks too, but not as much as you do.



I don't know - I was actually encouraging more SF during the EA part, as I really wanted to get my H to fall in love with me

Hmm------- I think my wife was OK with how I was acting and never complained. She stated she made love to me a couple of times after OM got her horny with phone sex. If OM knows this it would probably hurt. Again, this speaks to the dysfunction of affairs------ don’t you think?

I do know that after D-Day though I was much more open to alot more umm creativeness in bed? Mostly because I wanted to do anything to help make my H feel special again, cause of course the specialness of our making love had been tainted by the fact i had sex with another man.

Hmm----- 1st few times after D-day my wife did some stuff to me during SF that she had only done a few times before in our marriage. I don’t know if she was doing this with OM or whether she simply wanted to go all out with me. I tend to believe the latter. You are very similar to my wife.

I had a full EN list...I definately had deficits...but they were also grossly amplified

So everybody re-writes the marital history--- no big deal. I think my wife felt I took her for granted despite the fact that I made love to her twice a week (despite a marriage of nearly 30 years), we went out on dates, held hands in public, kissed in restaurants whenever I had more than two glasses of wine, ect. JL feels that she took me for granted and perhaps she projected this into me.


I did keep OM seperate from H, except I tried to make them be friends - so H would approve of him, so it would be closer?

I would have been very insulted if my wife had made me socialize with OM. IN any event OM was 3000 miles away. The bulk of the affair was long distance with physical meetings for the SF. That is why the A lasted so long.

I don't know my reasoning for that - but I kept my relationship with OM, and my relationship with H completely serpreate.

There is no other way, IMHO.

Well, he cried, and i did it on the phone. He said he understood, but would always be here if things didn't work out. On the phone I said I would miss him, and that I am sorry for hurting him...and I even did say if things didn't work out maybe one day I would look him up (oddly I didn't mean this, as I was relieved to get out..but I also didn't want to hurt OM

Are you sure you are not my wife. Gee, these affairs are pretty mundane and similar. When I read all the emails the night of discovery I felt like crying, but at the same time I wanted to laugh at the silly prose and words used in affairs. It is really Disneyland!

In any event my wife’s OM was very persistent. Despite NC letters and stern emails from my part he kept trying. He called my wife a coward for not leaving the marriage. He cried, he wrote letters, he flew to our town unexpectedly and then he became a friend of my wife’s family to keep track of my wife and to perhaps re-start the A again. OM told my wife I would never forgive her, ect. However I have fully forgiven my wife and feel no pain at this time.


To be honest, I just didn't want to lose my H to jail time, that was my ONLY fear. In the beginning before the full truth was out - I was more scared he would believe OM over me...of OM gave him a new detail

The above has always been in the back of my mind---- a new detail. But, guess what-- at this time I don’t really care.

Thanks for sharing!!
CIAO!

'

LOL - actually I am very talkative in real life, but not about this stuff - this stuff I am only talkative about on MB, as I do so as part of therapy of me talking about it, and also in the hopes that I can help others through my experiences? I know that reading other people's experiences has helped me alot.

I find alot of FWW who come here are so similar to me..you are right - it's like a book we all read. Even the ones still in the fog, sound so much like I did 9 months ago...so I look at them with optimism and hope that if they do the right things, they can grow and change like I have. That they have this MAJOR chance at making things right, learning and growing...that I just hate to see them blow it!!! Silly me.

I think the main reason my OM didn't persue me as hard as he could have is that he had a wife and family...and once exposed to his wife, the contact stopped completely.

Dorry:

You are also to be congratulated for trying to help others and for giving insight to BH. My wife has also been very helpful to other men in the forum. When I 1st came here I got the most help by talking to FWWs. They were very instrumental in my recovery and as today (15 months past d-day) I am SO MUCH better! However, I still have a need to talk every now and then. The only difference is that now I don't feel any resentment or sadness----------- it is a much better experience.

You said:

I think the main reason my OM didn't persue me as hard as he could have is that he had a wife and family...and once exposed to his wife, the contact stopped completely.

My wife’s OM had just separated from his wife due to------ infidelity from his part. When OM met my wife he said his OW (the one that caused the break up of the marriage) was not meeting the EN of SF. However, sex life with wife had always been healthy. Is that wacky or what????? More bizarre stuff that somehow is overlooked by WWs.

In any event my wife once said that she would not have done the affair if OM had been married. She didn’t want to go thru that extra layer to contact OM and the added stress of knowing OM was married would have been too much.


In any event: My wife was like you------ totally dedicated to save the marriage and gave up OM right away. However, it was very important to my wife to know OM was still longing for her. My wife wanted OM to love her forever. The idea that OM could get over the affair and find happiness with a free woman was terrifying even though there were no plans to re-start the affair. Do you have any explanation for that? I am not sure my wife can explain it, but I remember how she wanted OM to not forget her. It was OK for my wife to move on, but she wanted OM not to move on. Does that make sense to you?

Sorry, but there are so many things that don’t make sense. I appreciate your perspective.

CIAO!

It makes sense, for a long time I wanted to think that I was the best thing that ever happened to OM. That he really did want to leave his marriage for me. That he was heartbroken and would never get over me. Funny though cause I got over him fast, I never wanted to leave my marriage for him, and I was happy to say goodbye to it. I think it had to do with what I was getting out of him, the attention, the affection, the admiration - added to that ego that he was building for me that I was lacking.

Now, 8 months completely out - I don't think of him at all. I do however sometimes think of his wife and hope that she is well. I hated being another one of the women that has helped make her life a living h*ll, as exOM seems to be a serial adulterer

hmmmmm

i keep hearing "i never wanted to leave my marraige for him"

this IS NOT what my husband is saying!!

Eav - it wasn't my husband was saying either...different people, different stories. My husband just wanted to leave - whether with her or without her. And here we are - 2 months into recovery from that and doing great. Don't lose hope -just go into a great Plan B like people are telling you to do and things may come your way!

Hi Dorry,

I really appreciate yours and everyones input, but at the same time it makes me feel a little uneasy. The truth is out of the 5 questions I posted I only asked her about questions 3 & 4. I'm not ready to hear the answers on questions 1,2 & 5. I do want to know, but not yet. It's still too early.

H4F,

Even if you never ask them all - don't worry about - I think my H has only asked me one or two of those, and I have asked H none of these questions. It's all on what you really want to know or need to know. To both of us some of these we didn't need answers to. I am sure if H came here to read, he would skip this too, as reading alot of these thoughts would be very painful to him. As well if I read things like this posted by him. I think it's why he doesnt come here much anymore. We spent so much time dwelling on eachother, we are on to more productive things finally (for us anyhow)

dorry
thank you!! it is sooo good tohear these things when i feel that my situation is worse then anyones!

i'm not doing plan B-but i'm doing plan A and 180 at melodylanes recomendation. I need to rebuild some attachment before i even consider plan B. my husband is not "fence sitting" he is just done.

i am trying to expose that the affair is still continuing toher husband but i wnated to complete our property settlemnt agreement before i tell him.