With all due respect to Gimble, that tag line merely sums up some "atmospheric types within a marriage" that may lead to infidelity and/or self-centered personality types that have yet to learn that marriage is a 100%/100% arrangement, not a 50-50 deal.

Infidelity is a CHOICE to sin, to disobey God's clear command, "Thou shalt not commit adultery," and to USE one's "feelings" as an "excuse" or reason to say "God didn't really mean what He said."

Recovery is a CHOICE to be humbly obedient to God no matter what we feel, what the "atmosphere" is, or what we "want" if it puts our will ahead of God's will.

We can "blame" all the causitive factors we want to, but in the end the only reason for infidelity is a CHOICE. UNDERSTANDING what "needs" are, and how to meet them, how to love "sacrificially", etc., ARE important in building a strong "affair proof" marriage, but even if we don't have a "fairytale book-like" marriage, we still CHOOSE to be married and to be faithful. We can also CHOOSE to change, to end things that we "used to do," in favor of better and more God-honoring behaviors.

God bless.

Hi FH.

I neither see your point or precisely what it is that you disagree with.

Regardless, please take it to another thread and we can discuss it when I have more time. In the mean time, please don't derail what this young woman needs to understand about herself.

God bless,
Gimble

Gimble, allow me to make it clear and unambiguous to you.

NO ONE, especially me, is telling Cinny that she does NOT have to change herself, to recognize and change her own habits and personality traits that are detrimental to a marriage. I told her quite clearly to RESTRICT her posting to issues about herself that we can address, but to leave any and all comments about her husband and "correcting his statements" out. We need to address her husband "one on one" without her involvement AT THIS TIME in the process of trying to save their marriage.

What I am OBJECTING to you in your short and flippant response to Cinny is that it has NO bearing on a Christian marriage and advising her husband to PROCEED with a divorce is not only at "odds" with Scripture, it is decidely UN-Marriage Building. At best, it might be you projecting your own experiences in your marriage onto theirs, at worst, it advocates a "toss in towel" mentality that ALL recovering marriages will face many times during the process UNTIL they "slay all the dragons" that stand in the way of full recovery and a "newer and better" marriage than they ever would have envisioned even before an affair became an ugly chapter in the marriage.

The are both EARLY in process and have been doing things incorrectly. Your answer, or so you advised, is to end the marriage. Not much of a Marriage Building answer certainly not a biblically based advice. imho.

They are Christians and, therefore, they both need to obey God, to surrender to God, not to man's "thoughts and reasons." Cinny's husband IS a Christian and has been seeking godly advice from "strong Christians." I look forward to asking him about some of the advice he has been receiving and about the "advisors" experience with infidelity and recovery.

If you'd care to take the discussion to another thread, be my guest, but ONLY if you want to discuss what God has to say about it. I am NOT interested in humanistic reasonings in this case.

To use an analogy, their marriage is critically injured and they have just arrived at the Emergency Room (MB FORUMS MEDICAL CENTER AND CLINCS). They have multiple injuries, some self inflicted and some caused from outside sources. REGARDLESS...the number one priority is to stop the bleeding and to stablize the life signs BEFORE turning our attention to all the other "things" that need to be fixed and repaired and healed.

Your answer is to "fix everything now" or let the "patient" bleed out and die and that is what I'd like you to "rethink."

"Quick-fixes" are NOT what Marriage Building, or Recovery from an affair, is all about. The first order of business is to "stop the bleeding," because until then all the "other work" will be in vain to save "this patient."

I am thankful to all of you for pointing out my errors. I will do my best to focus on me and what I can do to make myself a better person, and in turn, a better W. I have been seeing our MC individually each week for the past month to discuss the progress (or lack of) in my M and also how I am doing as a person. I have been praying a lot more, making sure that I am seeking His will and not my own. I am going to purchase the book the Bob recommended and I will read it. Any other suggestions of what I can do to make myself who I should be would be greatly appreciated.

And Gimble, in the spirit of radical honesty, I will be completely forthcoming with you. Any lack of understanding that I have with your tag line comes from not completely understanding the literal meaning of the words. My H could probably vouch for that. I work with kids all day so my vocabulary is not what it used to be. My H was always my walking dictionary and I often had to ask to define things for me.

Hi FH.

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If you'd care to take the discussion to another thread, be my guest, but ONLY if you want to discuss what God has to say about it. I am NOT interested in humanistic reasonings in this case.
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I would really appreciate it if you wouldn't pre-judge me or my beliefs. Your presumption that I take a humanistic approach to anything is simply that, presumption. I think it better that you and I just agree to disagree and limit our posts to each other.

Good day,
Gimble.

Hi, cinny.

Sorry for the delayed response, but my days sometimes get the best of me, and this one has been a doozy.

Quote:
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And Gimble, in the spirit of radical honesty, I will be completely forthcoming with you. Any lack of understanding that I have with your tag line comes from not completely understanding the literal meaning of the words. My H could probably vouch for that. I work with kids all day so my vocabulary is not what it used to be. My H was always my walking dictionary and I often had to ask to define things for me.
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A sense of entitlement that leads to an affair is often seen due to a lack forgiveness of perceived wrongs of the other spouse. The perception that the other spouse is not living up to your expectations can lead to resentment. The resentment builds to the point that the resentful spouse considers it a right to "be happy" or to have a fling or to let some other person meet their needs.

In real world examples of this, it is very common for one spouse or the other to have unmet needs (and often unrealistic) expectations of their spouse. "Prince" or "Princess" types of people are particularly prone to this behavior.

The reason I posted what I did is so that you can see the seriousness of how your attitude (selfishness and sense of entitlement) are adversely affecting your ability to recover.

Your husband is not perfect, and he may very well have contributed to the condition of your marriage pre-affair, but there is no excuse for what you did. It is not his fault that you made the choice you did. Once you truly understand that simple fact, other truths will begin to become clearer to you.

In your posts, there is still perceptible anger toward your husband. You obviously still feel somewhat justified in your decisions. That is something that you must address before you can expect him to begin to trust you again.

He is likely convinced that you will simply get mad at him again, and use it as an excuse to have sex with another man.

Since sex has been mentioned a couple of times by you, I suspect that it played a large part of your marital dissatisfaction. It is not at all uncommon for a woman to have a higher drive than a man. If that has been an issue in your marriage, there are ways to solve that problem without seeking outside sexual partners.

The first step for you is to understand your part in this, and why it is your fault that you had an affair, not his. Once you have that under your belt, then I suspect that your husband will slow things down regarding the divorce, all on his own.

Since others need a label for me, I am both player and played, but that was long ago. I am not operating from a sense of hurt or defensiveness, and even though I said that your husband should continue the divorce proceedings for now, I am firmly pro-marriage and would like nothing more than to see yours saved.

Lastly, I want to leave you with something to think about. Your sense of entitlement is a huge barrier to forgiving your husband for your perceived wrongs of his toward you. If you don't deal with it, you will cheat again.

God bless,
Gimble

Gimble,

I don't blame my H for my A. I know that regardless of what any situation is like, people still have free will to make their own choices. I could have, and should have, chosen to see a MC when I noticed we had problems, instead of taking it upon myself to see that I was happy. I was no doubt selfish.

I may come across as having anger. My MC and I have talked a great deal about this. I often give the perception that I am not as "soft" as I feel ... as my MC tells me, my words carry more power than I know. It is not that I feel anger. It is more than I don't know how to accurately express how I do feel. Again, according to my MC, I express myself the way that my parents showed me, and unfortunately, my parents were not always the best example of a loving M.

Please don't see that as me trying to place blame on my parents, either. Because again, I recognize that I always have a choice in my behavior, my actions, and my words. There is no one that I can blame my A on other than me, and there is no one who can right that wrong other than me.

You mentioned that you thought I had a higher sex drive than my H. That was not the case. It was quite drastically the other way around (not that my H wanted it too much, but that I didn't want it at all...which is a whole nother issue I am exploring with my MC).

Gimble - Agreed, especially since you seem to be exhibiting the same "judgmental" attitude that you are decrying.

Hi, cinny.

Let me ask you a couple of questions.

What are the resentments that you harbor against your husband?

What caused you to withhold sex from him?

Gimble

Gimble

At this moment in time, I do not harbor any resentments against my H. I know that before the A, I resented him for his work schedule and the lack of time we spent together. But I now realize that the problem was a joint problem that we both needed to work on. He eventually offered something by not working weekends, but I did nothing with my own schedule to help accommodate him. I was stubborn and wanting everything to work around me. But that's not a M. That is why I am coming up with different ideas of what I can do with my own schedule.

I would not say that I withheld sex from him, because to me, that has more of a malicious connotation. That is something that I am discussing with my H and my MC, and because of the very personal nature, I would rather leave it between them, unless my H would like that information to be shared on a public forum.

Ya Know Cinny,

I do hope your H comes back here and posts. There are a lot of things I would like to discuss with him. You two are very clearly at a crossroads right now. That much you know. But, perhaps you may not realize why or perhaps he may not realize why. I think you have a clue.

Permit me to throw some ideas out to you. Some of them are going to be very conflicting but that is the point.

On one hand I can see how someone as young as you and your H could find yourselves in this mess. It is called maturity or perhaps the lack of it. In many ways this is very normal, people your age are not as mature. I will tell you that when you turn 30 two things will happen. One, you will look back at this period of your life and think "What was I thinking and how could I have been that immature?" The other thing that will happen is that you will NOT become OLD. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> You will still be very young but that will coupled with a new level of maturity. At 40 you will still be in that state no matter what people fear. At 50 you will be surprised how young you feel vs. all of those old folks you used to know that were 50. And at 60 you will be surprised some more.

My point? You and your H have a lot of life to live and you two are just now growing up. That means you two can have a good life together if you mature together and learn to respect one another.

That is the good news.

The bad news is that you have a long life to live and if little changes it will be as it was AND your H fears this deeply.

The other bad news is that your H is very tired right now. He is emotionally drained, hence his filing for divorce. However, there is a time period for a divorce to take place and in fact you two could remarry even if the divorce has occured.

I think I know where your head is right now with regard to the marriage. What I don't think you realize and probably neither does your H, is that you two have TIME to reconcile, to make your "vast sums" of money. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> And to build the life you want. I don't know either of your family situations but many people your age want to live like their parents with the house, the cars, the... But what they forget is the years it took to save, earn, and make those dreams come true.

Neither of you should be in such a hurry to make a living that you forget to live and it sounds to me like both of you did just that. Further being a guy I would bet good money that your H was like most of us guys and when he married you he took his role as a male very very seriously. Do you know what the traditional role is? Provider, even if you work, his identity as a good H is based on how well he provides for you, so what did he do? He worked and worked.

You had similar issues but probably driven by some other goals so you worked and worked. Do you see the trap? I think from what you have posted that you do.

Does your H see the trap? I think he does...now.

My point is this. You both need to take your time in healing this marriage. You need to calm down, relish your new discoveries about yourself. Your new realizations about how relationships work. The power you had in this marriage.

Give your H time as well. He is very worn out right now. He needs many things but some peace is a main one. Does that mean you NOT contact him? no. What it means that when you are with him or talk with him that you bring peace to his life, calmness, and (my favorite attribute) grace.

If you can do this, I have a feeling his love will overcome his pain and his emotional fatique. He needs to know that both of you will mature, grow, and can grow together. But, it takes time.

So send him here again. I will not be around next week, but this week I will be. Please think about what I have said. You need to develop a perspective on this whole thing and that takes time. So does he.

Keep up your work on yourself, keep up your hope, and realize there is a chance once his batteries recharge a bit.

Those are my thoughts.

God Bless,

JL

Hi, cinny.

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I was stubborn and wanting everything to work around me.
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That is very common, especially when you are younger, as JL was pointing out to you.

Sitting high in your 'center of the universe chair' plays a part in your entitlement. It's amazing how much trouble such seemingly innocuous parts that we play with our spouses, can cause such harm to our relationships. I bet that if you think some more about it, you will find other resentments that you held or still hold against your husband.

Since you don't want to talk about the sex, let me share a little bit about what my wife has had to deal with in our relationship. She reads and posts here.

I have had substantial sexual experience while hers was limited. I cheated on her a lot when we were first together, she finally ended up cheating on me as a reaction to my actions. Now we have been together almost 32 years, and married for almost 30 years. It took a while for us to work out our differing sex drives. She still sometimes has a hard time not comparing herself to other women I have known.

Obviously, I don't know what your sexual situation is/was, I DO know, that this can be worked out, but only in humility. Selfish entitlement, pride, resentment - they will all greatly hamper the process.

As JL requested, please ask your husband to participate here. I have questions for him as well.

God bless,
Gimble

I will respond more to what both of you said later on this evening. I am work and need to get going.

I just wanted to let you know that my H has been here (that is more for Gimble ... he is mws1230). He sent me a text message last night letting me know he was having problems signing in. He thought I had deleted his account. I tried signing in at the house and it worked, so I am not sure where the problems lies, but I can at least tell you his absence lately has not been intentional. It's been computer problems!!