I'm not one of the experts around here, but it seems to me that you're best bet is to not to respond to her 'foggy' comments at all.

Reverse babble works well at times too.

WW: They're my friends and family, and you have no right to involve them!

BS: If they're YOUR friends and family, it seems to me that you would WANT to involve them?

WW: I want you to watch the kids while I go to the doctor's office.

BS: Why? I thought you wanted me out of your life?

And when she hung up on you...I wouldn't have called back to get the last word in...it never helps. Just my thoughts.

thank you...I will try this. This seems to be normal stuff from what I have read in other posts but it is hard to take. seems I have a long road ahead...

part 1...
called WS last night to aske her to dinner on Friday...she said that she already had dinner plans and couldn't. I asked if there was another night that she could and she got very quiet and said I don't know after a long pause. Then said after I was quiet it can't be Wednesday and it cant be Friday. I asked what was going on Wednesday and she said that she had dinner plans with someone. I said Ok I'll talk to you later...she became very agitated and said that I was acting childish and that if this was the way it was going to go forget it she didn't want to talk to me or spend any time with me ever and hung up. I called back and asked why she was acting that way. That all I did was say ok...she said you get all quiet and pouty like a child. I said that I was being quiet because I was upset and didn't want to vent my feelings and frustration on her. That I was upset because It makes me feel like our marriage is not as important to her as it is to me. That it feels like these other people are more important than our marriage. That I want to spend time together going out to dinner and on the weekends just having a good time. (this is the 4-5th time in 2-3 weeks that she has avoided making plans or given excuses).

I told her that I would enjoy it very much if she wanted to go to dinner with me on Thursday night if she can find time if not that is ok too but to let me know so that I can make arrangements for a sitter. She said ok and we hung up...

Part 2...Later on I was laying in bed reading Love Busters (again) and the story of Karen and Jim leapt off the page at me. I don't know why I didn't see it before. The situation was very very very close to ours. I was compelled to call my wife.

I started by telling her that I wasn't trying to bug her but could she spare 2 minutes to talk. She agreed...I told her that I was reading this book and explained my feelings using our own situation as an example. She was quiet and listened intently. I appologized for being unknowingly neglectful to her and told her that I wished I had learned this sooner. I then told her that I would let her go and talk to her later. She struck up conversation with me and we talked for over an hour!!!! I asked her what her passions were what made her feel good about herself what she dreamt of doing. She told me that she wanted to start Karate again...I asked her what it was that made her feel good about karate and she opened right up. She told me she wanted to go to college and get a degree and I asked questions about why and how and what she wanted to study, she told me she dreamed of a carribean vacation and we talked about where and how we could do that. She seemed to really open up to me. Her brother showed up and she seemed distracted I asked her if she wanted me to let her go...she said yes, I'll call you back in a bit. She called back and then we talked again for quite awhile. Eventually we agreed we should get some sleep as it was about 11:30pm. We said goodbye...

I went to bed feeling Blissful...and slep great until about 4:00am. I kept thinking about the fact that the OM was going to be at my home with my wife and Children on Wed. which is ironically the last day of our 6 week program. I was feeling betrayed and hurt and lost and angry. I kept feeling like maybe I should just give her a final ultimatum and tell her that if she wasn't willing to spend time with me and commit to our marriage and end the A then I was done for good. then I started thinking about all of the other stuff. THe fact that she told her mother that she wanted it to work but was affraid of getting hurt again. that she had made her brother and friend believe that she was ending the A last weekend and had commited in her mind to putting it all back together. That maybe that is what this dinner is all about on Wed. I am just so confused and feel like I am on a perpetual rollercoaster. I don't know how much more I can handle. Then I think about the fact that she is reading Surviving an Affair and think maybe I should give her some time to absorbe and about the conversation last night. then she calls me at about 8:00am...with a question about clothes for the kids. She quickly changes the subject and starts conversation that lasts about 30 Min. Am I starting to break through to her? Am I on the right track? hoping that some of you MB Vets can offer an opinion...

... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

had quite a day and an even worse evening last night. My WS found an invitation to my cousins annual summer party that was 2 weeks ago. We used to attend this party together every year and spent time with cousins setting up and picking up each year. She new about the party and I had asked her to join me but she felt uncomfortable and chose not to attend (she spent the weekend with OM instead). The real issue was that she found the invitation that I had received and was upset that it had only my name written on the front. She said in a rage that the only 2 people left in my family that she thought she could turn to (cousins wife is a close Friend and supportive of our marriage)turned their back on her. I responded by telling her that she had been invited she said yeah by you...I explained my conversation with my cousin as "Cousin said that you were invited and welcome but that she was going to leave that up to me"...well this just escalated into "Oh...so its up to you to invite me they didn't want you to be uncomfortable so they left it up to you...well you can have your f***ed up family then"

She just kept repeating her self in a rageful fit...I continued to try to reason but eventually just left. I tried calling a little later and she wouldn't answer the phone. I sent her a Text asking her if she really believed that they would tur on her...to think about that. No response so in a moment of weakness about 1hr later I drove over to the house. She was still so angry almost as if she was looking for a reason. Like she was trying to justify something she had done or was about to do. Really strange stuff...I guess the Alien has taken over. She was so hurtful and condescending and down right mean with the things she was saying to me and for no real apparent reason. I hadn't done anything at all...She reduced me to a Blubbering, crying, puddle of a mess. I was just an emotional basket case. With her telling me the whole time that it was over that was it to leave and never come back and that she would get a restraining order against me. I just left...called my MIL and we spoke aboout the Situation. She then called WS and talked to her for aver an hour. She told me that WS was not ending the M, that she had an appointment for some counseling that MIL is paying for and that she is just confused and doesn't know where to start or if she can ever forgive me or trust me. MIL suggested that I don't call, don't show up, and if she calls tell her that I have done all I can do at this point and that when she has figured out what she wants and is ready to commit to our M to call me.

Is this good advice at this point....the OM is still in the picture and I feel so hopeless. I believe that his is all fog stuff and her trying to hold on to the anger or to justify what she is doing and justify keeping it going. Do you think she did this because she was feeling guilty or weak and was afraid to end the A knowing that todday was the dead line for our agreed apon 6 weeks? Is this just her way of keeping things going?

Continuing with Plan A (although I don't feel like I'm doing a very good job) but I don't know how much longer I can do it.

SC, how is it that you have left your home? Why did that happen?

I had an A myself last fall (Nov-Jan), I left mostly on my own but she also locked me out. I went back in Feb. to work on M and she was wonderful she was doing everything she could to make me happy but I still was wavering and feeling smothered and influenced by friends and Fam. I didn't go back to the OW...I wrote my W a letter and told her that I wanted a Div. (how I wish I had not done that). While I was at work she packed up car and left the state with the Kids. I went to the court and got a protection order. She was telling me at the time that she would be back for the Div but the kids wouldn't. she was a mess. I was able to make her bring the kids home and leave our home for a 2 week period while we waited for court. the court set an order in place to require us to share the residence. she has it M-F with the kids and I have it F-M with the kids. THis has been this way since April sometime. In May I asked her i to reconcile and we have been up and down back and forth on it a million times. She started an affair around the end of May. She tells me she wants it to work but just doesn't know if she can forgive or trust again. I hope I answered your ? and I hope it helps in gaining some advice/support. According to her brother, Friend and mother she is leaning towards ending the A and working on our M, but she still won't make a decision...

Why would she make a decision? She has her home, her family, you, and OM on the side. She wants to continue to eat cake.

The first thing I would do is get a court order that the OM was not to be allowed in your home, around your children. They are going to get mixed up on who daddy is.

Also I would not babysit anymore so that wife can go hump the OM.

Seeking,

I agree with Believer, the OM in your house, in your bed, etc.,WITH THE KIDS THERE is a very bad idea. I don't understand why your W would allow this.

She has to start thinking of the kids first, rather than herself.

Make this a first step toward reconciliation, a small step but very important. The OM must not be there with the kids.

Hopefully the court order will work.

k

I don't know if I can get a court order to do that...but I will look into it. He has not been staying at my home overnight other that one time which according to my kids he slept in the inlaw appt alone and the kids slept in bed with WS. Other than him comming over for dinner occasionally and then leaving fairly early. Her contact with him is on the weekends when I have the kids and the house. I have a list of events that has more detail up to date if anyone is ineterested. I would be happy to email it in hopes of some advice. Let me know...

She is a married woman, and shouldn't even consider bringing a strange man into the family home.

I agree but didn't I somehow have a part in justifying her?

I have to say that the silence from her today is killing me after we left it in poor shape last night. I am so tempted to call but also afraid of her still eing angry and making the mistake of creating more justification in her mind. I thought for sure just like every other time she would call this morning and be calmed down enough to talk it through. Last nights argument was so stupid and had nothing to do with me at all. I jst don't get it...

You had a part in letting the marriage get to the state it was in, but that is it. There is no justification for an affair - hers or yours. Don't let her make you feel guilty.

It is time one of you step up to the plate to save your marriage. It looks like you are the nominee.

Oh, and they are all furious during exposure. She will get over it.

thank you for the encouragement. I spoke with BIL during lunch. his take is that she is feeling extremely guilty and trying to cover it up with false anger and outbursts. He said not to let it eat me up just keep doing what I am doing and things will come around. He also said that she is acting very foolish lately because she asks advice from people and then doesn't act on it and wonders why they are getting fed up. He is going over tonight while OM is there for dinner to express his point and see what he can do to get her to see what she is doing to everyone including herself. We'll see for now I'm just standing by...

Good for him. Now that is what I call family support.

Just received a call from my daughter...first contact I have had with my wife or children all day. Daughter says...mummy wants to know if you have gotten your paycheck yet and if you have please bring it over because she needs chemicals for the hot tub.

WHAT THE HE**???

I just said can you put your mother on the Phone?

She did...

My wife acts like there is nothing wrong...

I ask "you didn't feel you could ask me that question yourself?"

she said she was very busy and had been running all day cleaning the house. Said that the kids want to use the hot tub and until she stabalizes the Chemicals and cleans it up she didn't feel comfortable letting them. Funny she let them last friday with out a problem but when I asked on Sunday she said no it was dirty and gross...Hmmmmmmmm

I just said no I haven't gotten it but I would let her know when I did.

My guess is that she is preparing for the OM when he comes over for Dinner 2nite. crazy to think I would just give her my paycheck so that she could prepare for an evening of sleazy sex with OM.

I am angry here but am I right...or could I just be reading into things.

Your thoughts???

She must be

Sorry all thought I would change the Subject to something more appropriate.