My husband and I haven't had sex for 2 years now. There has been no affection, intimacy also for as long. He never goes anywhere and comes home straight from work. The other night, I have no idea what possessed me to do this, but, I went on the computer and logged into his e-mail and found a letter that he wrote to "Huney" back in June. In it he said he couldn't wait to see her and that he loved talking to her over an hour with her. Also, he was on the computer and would be on until 3:00 am and she could e-mail him back. Here's alittle excerpt from his e-mail to her:<P>"Is it o.k. to e-mail you, or will your boyfriend get jealous?? Let know (depends on your answer as to what I write!!!!) Oh well, I am out of things to say (until you answer the above jealousy question...) I wish I could see you now but I guess I have to wait for lunch".<P>There were no more e-mails that he saved. I guess he forgot to delete this particular one. So, when I found it, I approached him about it. He told me that he was not having an affair. That this was someone that he just talks to 2-3 times a week on the phone at work (she use to work where he did but never at the same time in the same place) and they e-mail back and forth. He also admitted about thinking about having an affair with her but has denied having one. He told me this has been going on for a year. Needless to say, I was shocked and very hurt!! He also told me that I was right in assuming that he deleted the rest of the messages so I would not read them because it would hurt my feelings. That night after finding this e-mail, I informed him that he had choice to be with her or with me. But, if he choose to be with me, he would have to give 110% into the marriage and try like hell to make it work if that is what he wanted and that he would have to never talk to her again or contact her in anyway. He told me he wanted to save the marriage. I told him that I would not fight him on it and that I would go and file for divorce the next morning. I think I scared him a bit. I'll put another post up after this one called "What I did to the OW". I will let you know what I did on my end about this. But, my question is, is this having an affair? I kindof call it a phone affair? But it could be more???

Katya:<P>That's a classic emotional affair. He's turned to her for emotional support because he probably feels he can't (or doesn't WANT to) turn to you. It may not be sexual yet, but it's just as dangerous. More so, even than a "one-night stand" type of affair.<P>I would say YES, this is an affair. An affair is what the betrayed spouse thinks it is. He's been keeping this secret from you and he's been disrespectful to you (deleting messages to spare you the pain of knowing).<P>I would definitely call this an affair and urge you to get professional marriage counseling to help yourselves out. You'll need the guidance.<P>------------------<BR>/// Lone Star * ///<P>

Well... you know what I think ... but you never know. Its a signal for "trouble" thats for sure. I'd do some snooping and watch him like a hawk. If it is in affair, he probably won't admit it though.

Dear Lone Star:<BR>I thought so that this was considered an affair and it is the dangerous part of it is that it really could of gotten there. Thanks for your reply. It helps to know that others think the same. But sometimes we are not always sure until we hear it from someone else. <P>Cndy:<BR>Your Funny!!! Here you are again. I just e-mailed you 3 times and your on my post. ARe you following me??? (hee, hee, hee)...Just kidding.

Of course it's an affair - I believe the current euphemism is "emotional affair." And one of the determining criteria is whether the person having it feels the need to conceal it from his or her spouse.<P>He didn't delete the messages because it would hurt your feelings - he did it because they would get him in trouble, and now he's in a position to lie about anything you can't prove.<P>I host a message board on cyber relationships and have seen a lot of this very thing - enough of it to agree wholeheartedly with what you did. You have to take a very firm stand and impose consequences. I have yet to hear of one person who came clean and admitted the full extent of their cyber fling.<P>------------------<BR>--Girlfriend in a coma (I know, I know it's serious)

I think anything that leads to deception of the spouse should be considered an affair. My H was so critical of Bill Clinton's definition of sex, then when I asked my H how many times he and the OW had sex, he omitted the times there was no intercourse. Just like b***jobs weren't considered sex. They can twist it around in their minds any way they want, but if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...it's a duck.

To me this sounds like an emotional affair, it is close to a physical affair, but quite as damaging. He is taking time away from you to spend time with her, this is a dangerous situation. You did a good thing, confronting the OW on her job, that took alot of guts I hope she will leave him alone now. Good luck!<BR>Ian

I'll admit that these Cyber flings can be dangerous. I almost got into one and it's hard to get out. I was feeling down and I responded to a legitimate query about a totally innocent subject and before you know it the other person was telling me detail and soon I responded in kind. Got scary. No sex, but it certainly can lead to an affair of the heart. <P>We lie to our spouses for both reasons. We don't want to be cruel and hurt them and we certainly don't want to deal with discovery. The problem is that any such relationship which somehow leads one or both parties to look elsewhere for their needs to be met, is in trouble. Men and women don't go looking for anything, anywhere, unless they are not happy with what they have. And it should be noted that only the individual can be the judge of that. So many spouses say "he/she shouldn't have done that, I gave him/her everything they needed". Let's not be so presumptous. The minute we get too cocky we place ourselves at risk for emotional pain.<P>

---<p>[This message has been edited by MaryBB (edited June 23, 2000).]

I don't want to add to your pain, but I think this could very well be an emotional and physical affair. I know that a lot can happen during a lunch hour. This is plenty enough time. I don't know if you have considered this or not. I regret to say that I know this because I was guilty of using my lunch hour to meet the OM and have sex during lunch. That way no one suspects and you are not gone from home. Anyway, be careful.

Katya - Your husband writing, "I wish I could see you now but I guess I have to wait for lunch" sure sounds to me like he's seeing her. And I think you were absolutely right to tell him that it's you or her, because it certainly sounds to me like he's having an affair! Regards and blessings,<P>--Wex

Dear Zombie:<BR>Aren't men funny how they can turn things around to justify what they have done? Oh, it's not sex, it's just a bj! Yeah, right. Thanks for your input.<P>Dear IOH:<BR>I suspect that the ow will leave him alone because I think I might of scared her enough and now she knows I am capable of anything.<BR>Your right, I think that emotional affairs are even worse, just because they are emotional. Affairs that have no emotional attachments are easier to walk away from instead of the emotional ones. Emotional affairs, I suppose, linger with thoughts, wants, and missing the other person. But, if we can eliminate the op then we can concentrate on the marriage and hopefully the op will just be a faded memory.<P>Dear Flipper:<BR>I won't say that I had given him everything that he needed. Obviously he needed something that I was not giving him, yet, he was not able to communicate his needs to me and chose her to do it with. I won't be too cocky to think that because it takes two to tango. But, I will fault him for not communicating with me and seeking someone else to talk to especially since its been 2 years and I have consistently tried talking to him and doing everything I could think of to correct our marriage. He told me that he was talking to her and in his head he had it that if we don't work out, then he can go to her. What sense does that make when I have been here trying and trying to make it work? I don't understand that. I take it your a guy, so maybe you can shed some light on this thought. It would be helpful. Thanks.<P>Dear MaryBB:<BR>Thank you for your response also. You must of read one of my postings of an ex-boyfriend who I caught red handed and he denied it, that I was hallucinating. Then again, there are alot of men like that who will deny it even when they are blatantly caught. What a really nice compliment from you that you have learned alot from my posts. I always hope when I write on these things that someone will take my advice or parts of it since I sometimes speak from experience. Are you referring to the many other posts I responded to or are you referring to this latest one of mine with my husband and the ow? Just curious. At least I was a help to someone somewhere. Thank you for your kind words.

Dear Susan:<BR>I have considered that he might have had a physical affair during the lunch hour. I even told him that, but of course, he denied it. I don't believe him. Whether he did or didn't, I will never know. I just know now that it's all or nothing. If he wants this marriage he will try his damn hardest to keep it together and Iwill also try on my end. <BR>Just out of curiousity, what happenned to your affair? You said no one suspected it since it was during lunch and you are not gone from home. Yes, I definetly thought about all of this. It's painful to think about and still very fresh in my mind. But, like I said, I am very curious about your affair and as to what eventually happened...or is it still happenning?<P><BR>Dear Wexwill:<BR>Thanks for your input and support. It truly helps to know there are alot of members who are in support of what I had done. I don't regret a bit of it. But, if I had to do it again, then I would have to say it would not be worth keeping him, if he could do it again to me....then he can have her...<BR>Your friend, katya

sounds familiar. my W is doing the same thing. I am beside myself with anger, jealousy, and hurt. but I also understand that I have contributed to it somehow- no communication, intmacy, expectations, etc. take care of you -

This is so like the situation with my husband. I found out about his "friendship" with a classmate from some email that he had not deleted. That was last Dec. In late March, he finally confessed (to what I already knew in my heart). Even if their relationship has not become sexual, it is an affair--he is not being faithful to you. My next question is--Why no intimacy for 2 years? That is such a red flag of a problem. The two of you need to talk and and try to figure out what has happened. We are seeing a therapist together--believe it or not hubby actually admits that he has learned a few things. I can see the change in him, he is really trying.

Katya:<P>I wish I could give you insight, but alas, I'm at a loss for it myself.<P>You complain because your H doesn't communicate his needs to you and you say you are trying and trying. Fine. If you don't know what he wants., what are you trying?<P>My W says she tries and tries too. One difference. I coomunicate my needs to her very clearly and distinctly, but that doesn't seem to be important to her so she pooh-poohs them and sets them aside. She cleary communicates my "failings" to me. Not so much her "needs" but my failing to meet her needs for all sorts of things. Then if I say something about fulfilling my needs its "Why does it have to be about you all the time, why can't it be about me"? I can only answer that since we are married, it should be about "us". <P>Keep trying to find out what your H needs are and hope for the best. If you haven't had sex in 2 years, and you are willing, it would appear obvious that sex isn't one of his greatest needs, at least not within the context of "your" relationship.<P>I guess your greatest challenge is to get your H to tell you what is on his mind. Try to ask without seeming like you are interrogating ans see if he can just give you a clue.<P>Good Luck,<P>Flip<BR>

Katya,<P>Did you get my email? If not, let me know at thoughtfulangel@cheerful.com<P>I replied from my home email addy so it will be different than the above one.<P>Hope you will write.<P>Hugz, Thoughtful

Dear Flip:<BR>My trying is trying to talk to him, give him space, argue, silence, etc... I have tried all the above and nothing. That's what I mean by trying. I have also tried to be very patient, lost patience, ...nothing. Now, we are in therapy. Hopefully this will help us through. I had done what your wife did to you in terms of communicate his failings. I know that's wrong and that is something that I did correct, because I sat there and FINALLY listened to him...but still, I guess because we both have built so many walls between us, it's going to take alot of time chipping it all down. It takes two to make a marriage work. Obviously, there is something that I have done or things I have done to cause SOME of the wrongs in our marriage. From reading some of the members posts, I have learned alot and taken some of those advices that were given to me. Somehow, we always seem to give good advice to others, but, when it comes to our own relationship, we are at a loss. A member wrote to me about the man being in his cave. It's true and so I have taken that advice and it does work. He even told me about the cave and he'll come out when he is ready. Thanks for your advice. It's always appreciated. Hope things work out for you.

Dear DCW:<BR>That is really good to hear that the both of you are going to a therapist and things are working out. No sex for 2 years is a big red flag. I guess alot of things and resentments, walls, alot on my part (I suppose) and this is why. I say on my part also is because he has told that from alot of negativity on my part about his sexual performance, has brought him to a halt. I'll admit that I am open and like to discuss things when something isn't right. So, because I brought "focus" on a potential problem....(he would not get a hard on unless I touched him, or he touched himself). I would ask why that was the case...just really wanting to know because I NEVER had that kind of reaction all the time. He would just never get just turned on from doing other things...like intercourse or 69 or etc...I always had to stimulate him manually or he would do it himself. So, I guess because I questioned it, there went the focus on that particular issue and everytime we would then go to bed, he would focus on that and even if I didn't bring it up. So, that is one of the problems. So, I did contribute some of the problem, but unintentionally...wanting to know why and wanting to fix why it was that way. hopefully going to therapy will help us. I think we will be o.k. I just talked to him and he told me that he loves me. I asked him to rate himself since last week on how he has beend oing in the relationship. He gave himself an8 for the first few days (weekend) and then a3 since then because he said of the stress and the way he had snapped at me. I asked me to analyze himself (well rate himself) so he can be aware of how he is doing and how he may be improving or working on the marriage. My rating was a 4, but, that's because he said I am reacting to him reacting to me. Well, I hope things work out for you. It sounds like it is. I always like to read about good happennings with the members. Yours is off to a good start. Good luck!

Dear Thoughful:<BR>Sorry I did not get back to you. I don't think I have the email anymore. But, as you can see why I did not email you. Sorry....I have been quite busy with this whole mess. But, I will email you because I do want to ask you something...give me your email again. or email me at my address...if you still have it. Thanks, Katya