CrystalSinger, what is your old screen name?

I do agree that there is much that could be ignored as we don't all have to agree. We are here to give our differing perspectives. However, charges of "abuse" should not be ignored or made lightly against devastated newcomers to this site. There is nothing "grown up" about ignoring such treatment if it is, in fact, unwarranted. I have no idea why he is continually being labeled "abusive," so I believe an explanation is very much in order so the rest of us can understand.

Thank you for remembering my request. And for the reminder for those that didn't read it or remember.

PLEASE stick to helping and supporting TD and BT!!!!

If you have advice that contradicts someone else's, feel free to offer it WITHOUT attacking the other poster or suggestion.

Let THEM decide what will work best FOR THEM!!!!

Thanks Justuss <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

ZP,

“And I do not mean that you take seapration as an opportunity to batter your wife emotionally about the kids.”


I would not do this.

Okay. So do you have a plan for Plan B? What will you do with the kids? I do not want you to lose them either if you're not going to use them as pawns. If you do lose them, and treat them well, then I want for you to have as much visitation as possible. Just so you know. Okay? I am rooting for you.


“My dear, in your love you tried to use your children as pawns to hurt your wife.”


Uhh, no…. On D-day I managed to get my children from where my W dropped them off on

Where did she drop them? Were they in danger? Why didn't she drop them with you?

her way to a lawyer, after she refused to bring them home because she knew I had caught her,

Okay, answered question here. What was she afraid of? Did she say?

after she had told me in the past that she could probably get a restraining order keeping her and the kids in the house and forcing me out until the D was over.

What is her reasoning for doing this?


So on D-day, when I finally found out how thoroughly she was betraying me, I didn’t trust her one single bit.

Trust her to what? This is what she told the board:

From reading this thread, http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...rue#Post2786169, and the fact that you didn't return to defend yourself, I figured that posters here had a point about your anger, and the situation with the kids.

BT said (here:http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=2786277&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1) :

Quote

He used our children to keep my trapped in the house. There are also things he did on D-Day that I don't think anyone would say were okay to do. Those have really started to bother me, and while I do try to keep them in perspective as to what he is going through, they still bother me and add to the emotional distance between us. I had left the kids at my mom's briefly that day to see if I could get advice from a lawyer as to was there anything I needed to do at that point. He says he thought I was going to get a court order to keep the kids away from him, and while I was gone, he took them from my mom. He then proceeded to leave them in the care of our SIL, who was in town from Florida. This woman and her husband have done many, many things to try to hurt our family, and she has never cared enough about our children to even send a single birthday card, and she hates me, and he gives our children to her. As soon as he saw me, he knew I did not have any court order, but he refused for several hours to tell me where the kids were. He used them as leverage to get me to answer questions, each time telling me he would tell me where they were if I would answer the question, but never following through. He even called SIL to chat with her several times in front of me, telling her to keep the kids away while I begged him in the background to tell me where they were. I also had a 3-stone diamond ring he gave me for our 1oth anniversary. He told me I had to give it to him and then he would tell me where the kids were. The couple whose house we were at have problems of their own, and due to a custody problem, a county sherrif and a local police officer showed up at their house. T_D made me bring the ring in in front of these officers, and forced me to say I was giving it to him of my own free will, and then he still did not tell me where the kids were. He also went on to tell these officers that if they get a call from our house that night with me claiming abuse, I am nothing but a liar, so they need to be aware of that.

Several days ago we were fighting and she told me that she was taking the kids and going to her mothers to spend the night. I said I didn’t want the kids taken away. She said she could if she wanted. Well, excuse me but I am their parent as well.

Yes, you are their parent as well. I do not agree with her for making a statement like that.

My only leverage in that situation was to say that if she took my kids away against my wishes that I would file for D the next morning. Was that the greatest thing to say? No. But what else was available to me to keep my kids?

It seems like you tried other things as well.

I cannot stop her from doing whatever she wants to do. I am far from a controlling husband. If I was then how could she have done what she did without being caught?

There are ways.

“I ask you, can you protect those you profess to love from yourself and your harmful behavior?”


Yes, most definitely. The problem is, I feel my “profession of love” for my wife fading due to the circumstances that I am in and of which I have no control over.

And that is normal. And you're right, that you have no control over the situation. You DO have control over how you handle you emotions, if not the emotions themselves.

What do you know about Respectful Requests?

”Are you willing to seek help for that anger and not shift that responsibility to your wife? Because that's exactly what you're doing.”

And how am I doing this? Because I am deeply hurt and need someone and yet the one who hurt me, the one who says she wants to save the M is unable or unwilling to care for me in my time of need?


”See here. This is what I mean. You also have the responsibility to show your wife that your M is worth saving.”

Maybe if you were a fly on the wall you could speak with knowledge of what has transpired.

I am speaking with knowledge about what I've read here. There is enough to draw some sort of conclusion about what is going on.

You said:

Quote

On the other hand, I feel that considering what she has done to me I should be able to expect her to show a lot of efforts to save our M, to convince me to stay in the M.

You are shifting responsibility to your wife to convince YOU that the marriage needs to be saved. It seems you are already convinced of that. What you need convincing of is that the marriage CAN be saved. By cutting contact, to a degree (NC letter helps with this, which I hope she decides to do) BT is saying, "I'm going to work on this marriage." That should be enough for now.

Besides, YOU are to be working on YOURself, not your wife. It's not HER responsibility to make you think or feel a certain way. Your focus is on what your wife is doing and it should be on what YOU are doing.

Plan A. It's about changing yourself. If you tweak just to please your wife, you're changing for the wrong reason and the change will not stay; plus, it's disingenuous which is easily detectable. It's accompanied by resentment.

In fact it has been me repeatedly telling my W that I hope wholeheartedly that we can make it, that I know without a shadow of a doubt that I want above anything else for us to be happy with each other, for her to love me, for us to have that great marriage. I am the one always saying these things.

Do words mean much to you? Apparently not, because you don't believe she has completely ended the affair in her mind, and it bothers you that she isn't doing the NC letter and won't swear on the Bible.

Words don't mean much. Your actions need to tell her, unequivocally, that you are serious about saving this marriage.

I do not hear this from W. Can you not understand how I can develop strong frustration, heartbreak, and resentment in this scenario?

Does it matter whether I understand or not? FWIW, I do understand. I'm just saying your focus is in the wrong places. Your focus is on your wife's words/deeds. I think it should be on YOUR deeds and let your words follow.


“So now possibly, your wife is not your wife, but a woman you're trying to woo. Is it her responsibility to chase you?”


If only this was the case. I doubt I would try to pursue or woo a woman who hurt me in the worst way. Is it too much to expect for her to maybe try to woo me?

Then, I guess you have your answer. The marriage isn't worth saving to you. Why would she want to woo you, when she can easily get someone to woo her?

I'm not saying it's right, just that is possibly the way it is. And if you use my words to unleash a tirade on your wife as if I'm capable of reading her mind, I will no longer reply to you. Not saying you are, or will, but if you do, that will be my response. I'm trying to give information for YOUR benefit to HELP you. If it makes matters worse, I will stop.

It is not necessarily the fact that is was a PA that hurts the most, but that it was a PA while she was married to me. If I D, I would expect any future romantic interests to have been with other men, obviously. The difference is, when they were with other men it would not have been a betrayal of me. There is a huge difference there.

Yes, that is why your marriage vows are broken. There IS a difference, but the practical result is the same. The only thing is being divorced but still wanting to be married. You are spiritually divorced, and spiritual remarriage is a painful process.

“There is abuse of some sort, and that is no way to make decisions.”

I am interested in you clarifying this please.

I was referring here to using the kids. And if you are using LBs and other abusive tactics, it is based in attitudes that affect your decision-making.

“You are ready for her to end the affair and return to the marriage. I believe we told you that she needed a No Contact Letter, and as far as I know, one has not been sent.”


She tells me there has been NC except for him calling after the first week, at which time she talked to him for 15 minutes. So, “IF” I believe her, the A is over, although I feel like it is still a very strong reality existing in her mind. She will not discuss a NC letter. She says it isn’t needed at this point, even though he called her 3 times until he got a hold of her (2 times on the “love phone” that I took possession of, then after not hearing back, calling our home, which is the call I referenced above). She says it will just make matters worse for OMW and their marriage.
I cannot force her to make a NC letter. Heck, last week I asked her to promise on the Bible not to contact him and to hang up immediately if he called her, and to let me know immediately of any contact and she refused. She said she couldn’t be sure that she might not break down and call him, and couldn’t be sure that she could hang up if he called her. And because I got mad that she talked to him for 15 minutes when he did call, she said she probably wouldn’t tell me if he called again.

Right. And I think it's honest of her to reply that way. However, she's very foggy about all this.

Now, we can see through the lack of logic here. Yes? On the one hand, she doesn't want to make things worse for OMW by sending a NC letter. But she can't promise not to call him? Wouldn't that be the worst of the two?

So what does T_D need to do? You are equipped with this information which ALREADY makes you stronger in your stance. LBs will not add to your strength. Writing off your wife as an "emotional female" will not help. Sulking or acting needy or angry will not help.

What WILL help? I would like you to work on this, if you will. Think about it, and try to come up with behavior that will help you out in this situation. List what you know needs to happen based on what you've read here, on both sides. List what DOESN'T need to happen on your end, especially.

Now I have a question: Has OM tried to contact BT since she actually talked to him?

Look, I do love my wife, but there is just so much I can handle.

Understandable. Which is why there is Plan B.

She says my pre-A actions left my Love Bank zeroed out with her, and now her Love Bank with me is rapidly decreasing.

Yes, well, you took away her party favor, didn't you? That makes you the "bad guy" in her eyes. We know that is not the case. If you take away someone's "treat" because it will "rot her teeth," we recognize that as a good thing.

I just want you to be cautious about any abuse tactics you have or may employ. That matters more to me than you feeling upset about her not wanting to meet your needs. Just because she sees you this way doesn't mean she's stupid, ignorant, or vicious. It means she's caught in a fantasy.

I hope you will use your past to understand what she's going through. Addictions are all very similar, which is why there is a 12-step program for nearly every type. Give her time to recover in your judgments toward her.


That said, one little touch from her, one instance of taking my hand, makes my heart jump. And honestly, that makes me feel like a chump. After what she has done to me, how can my emotions make it so easy for her?

Make it so easy for her? What...to win you back? What do you expect her to do?

I'm sorry you feel like a chump. It's common to feel that way. I did too, at first, and there was no affair.

~ZP

Believer,

You are mistaken. I am from MB and SYMC.

~ZP

Melody,

I will clarify, so that offense is not taken where offense is not meant.


I do not judge T_D. It may seem like a judgment. I'm pointing to facts. I am classifying behavior as Dr. Harley has done. When we say someone committed a DJ, that is classifying the behavior. Dr. Harley classified DJ's as LBs and abuse. (GHNL is right about the source.)

I think LBs are the core of domestic abuse and lead to violence. Think about it. Isn't verbal abuse a form of AO? Verbal abuse is a precursor to physical abuse, so I've been told.

I do make allowances. I do understand, but I'm not going to change my terminology because someone is feeling a mite ticked off for a good reason. Bad things done for a good reason are still bad.

And on Jesus in the temple. I figure he knows more than I do. Some DO classify breaking someone's property as physical abuse, even. I don't. I do think it's abusive, but not physical abuse. HOWEVER, since Jesus is God, and God owns everything anyway, he broke his own things. *wink* Even by that stringent standard, Jesus wasn't physically abusive, and again, He knows more than I do.

~ZP

T_D

Thread RE: You

Just an F.Y.I. I don't want to post about your sitch without you being aware.

RE your update:



This sounds about right. Actually you are in a pretty good position. The A has been exposed (somewhat) and your WW is in a stage of withdrawal, anger and frustration.

I don't know that you are going to be a good candidate for the Harley concept of Plan A but you should at least give it a shot.

This is the time to work on YOU. Identify your love busting actions and eliminate them. Humble yourself and listen to your WW's claims of what SHE considers to be your LB's. Eliminate those as well.

This is certainly not enough but, I think this alone will be a big step for you.

Regardless of your WW's level of committment, you should be working to improve yourself which will in turn make the M more inviting to reconciliation for your WW.

Each LB is a quantum leap in the wrong direction. Each self-improvement is a baby step in the right direction.

TD, there is nothing 'RIGHT' about this situation in the normal sense of the word. This is the reality of affairs. Read some of the other threads here at MB - the WS's seem to all sound alike.

ba109 is right on the mark. LB's have got to go. That's self-improvement in the truest sense.

I know that one of the questions running through your mind is 'what if I put all this effort and time into the marriage and it still fails?' Everybody asks that question, and the answer is this: What we are advising you to do here will help YOU regardless of what happens with your marriage. The best outcome is that you and your wife will start a new, improved marriage and have a long life of happiness together using the tools that MB and other relationship specialists have provided. The worst outcome is that you will divorce, but the things that you've learned and the tools that you've acquired will prepare you for a new life as a happier and better-adjusted individual who will eventually find a mate willing to learn and use these same tools. And you will have few regrets at that point, because you will have done everything possible to make it work.

CS

Tired Dad - I put 3 years of effort into saving my marriage, and WH is still living with the OW. But I don't feel like it was a waste of time. Like they say here, I needed to earn my way out of the marriage. Now I'm glad that I did.

I am / was reading SAA.... she quit reading it about a week after d-day, right when her enthusiasm for "us" dropped through the floor. I may or may not pick it back up and finish it. I want to... I just don't have the strength right now.


All she wants to do is get after me when I deviate from the mantra of "WS has to go through withdrawal and won't be there for BS for a long time so don't expect it".


Well, I feel REALLY bad about my life. Really bad....

Maybe I just can't make it through all of this emotional trauma with no one there for me. Maybe that makes me weak. I can't help that. All I know is that instead of feeling a little better every day after d-day, for the last 2 weeks I have begun to feel a little worse every day. And yes, I LB daily. Sorry, I honestly try not to. But my hurt overwhelms me. I am doing the best I can.


And when I voice my depression and frustration with W, what I get back from her most of the time is along the lines of "Then I guess we just need to sign the papers and move on from all this because I am doing all that I can do". And I suspect that she is doing all she can do. I wish I could say that makes me feel better, but it doesn't.

Last night when we went to bed, she laid her hand on my side, and it made me fall apart. I couldn't help it. I just felt so totally enveloped in despair. As I cried, she tried to comfort me a bit, and she said things like "This is just too much pain for you. I have hurt you too much. You aren't going to be able to get over this." Well, she had better never go in to coaching, because she sucks at giving pep talks...

I WANT to get over this... I want to have my wife's love again. But I cannot do it alone, and W cannot help me now amd for who knows how long.


I am beginning to wonder if perhaps a seperation is not the best thing at this point.... She cannot provide the emotional support I need, and I cannot stop LB'ing. If I was seperate from her I would not LB her. If I was seperate from her I could work on myself without my emotions towards her overwhelming me. It would allow my emotions for her to fade to a less painful level. And maybe it would help her to decide if she really wants to committ to trying to save our M or not.

I suspect that for her, a seperation would make it easier to let go, less guilt about the A, etc... I just don't think that she would be very broken up about losing me. I am sure she would feel bad about getting divorced, and her role in it, I just don't think the "losing me" part of it would cause much pain.


I just desperately need someone to be there for me. Believe me, I know that the someone CANNOT be W right now. And who knows if it will ever be W? Or if she will be ex-W?

Someone on this thread said something along the lines that my M is broken, gone forever, and now I must work on a new M with W. Well, I guess I am stuck in the middle of grieving the loss of my old M, and the loss of the Angela that I know in my heart was the love of my life. That women is gone forever. Now I have to see if I can have a new M with the Angela that now exists. But it still hurts more than anything I can describe to have to accept that the Angela I knew, loved, and wanted to spend my entire life with is gone forever. I never, ever thought I would ever lose her. Now I did, and in the most hurtful way I could ever imagine.

Every thing I think of reminds me that my Angela is gone forever. Every picture, every pre-A memory, everything in my life for the past 18 years up until d-day reminds me that my Angela is gone FOREVER.

And now every day I have to think about how much of the things I loved about the old Angela, my Angela, is present in this new Angela.

Life is not supposed to be this complicated and painful.

I know that the only thing I can do is control what i can control, me. And my efforts to stop LB'ing must be stronger. Right now I cannot see how to decrease my LB'ing without letting my feelings of love fade away or to suppress them. That is my dilemma.

Hi TD

Hurts doesn't it ? I never knew a hurt like it. But the pain won't go away until you remove the source of it. You must pull the arrow. Lance the abscess.
And if you are anything like me, I think the source is your insulted manhood. Another man has taken what was promised to you. Was GIVEN what ws promised to you.

Its dreadful, enfeebling, destroying TD. You can do any one of three things in response:

1. Continue to wail and wallow in pain like MIKE did. Click on MIKE to read his story. This will remove your life from the pain, but not the pain from your life.
2. Divorce your WW while you are in pain and not thinking straight. Even God allows it for adultery HE understands how uniquely painful it is for us. But divirce doesn;t remove pain. The issues still need to be worked.
3. Be a MAN and set the benchmark for righteousness and high-mindedness in a f'ked up situation. Be a hero to draw the sting from everyone affected's lives so decisions can be made while NOT in existential pain.
TD your wife has never needed you to be a MAN as much as she does right now. She is incapable of a healthy relationship with anyone, not you, God or OM.

Its your job to reestablish calm and a fertile environment for discussion. No-one else is capable of so doing.

I know exactly how you feel that everything is hopeless, but that is your emotional response, not fact.

You owe it to your self, your wife and the vow you made before God to be strong and calm - a beacon of light and hope in a terrible situation.

Only then, once passions have subsided and calmness prevails can any of you make sensible decisions about your futures.

Whatever any of you decides now will be regretted in future I guarantee it.

I have learned, and I truly believe that there is no higher state of grace for a man than to be what his family needs in troubled times, particularly when he doesn't feel capable of so being.

Be a knight not a serf. take control of yourself and spread your calm through your lives. Be restrained and objectived.

In that way you can be proud even if you DON'T make recovery.

Stop the (understandable) self pity and step up to the plate. Your wife needs you to save her from herself. Are you up to the challenge TD ?

I'm just a bloke and I managed to do this against all the indicators. And I hav enever been prouder of anything I've ever done in my life.

Study MB. Address your issues. Love your wife while understanding the dynamics affecting her behaviour and thought processes right now. You wil be amazed how much more positive you will feel when you are taking afformative, brave action against your troubles.

All blessings

T-D, I admire you for coming back, reading all the posts that are disecting your relationship, etc.

I really hope you can get a handle on your LB'ers. I feel strongly that doing so will be key to any chance of rebuilding your marriage. And that is something that is completely within your power. It will not depend on what your wife does or does not do.

Please consider calling Steve Harley. The task ahead of you is not a D-I-Y project. You need a professional coach behind you.

Hi TD,

I remember early on when you first posted here. We have a mutual friend who asked me to please look out for you, so I did. I don't know if you remember what I posted to you, but it was something along the lines of "I think your wife may be having an affair (sadly that was true), but I'm a little afraid to tell you to explore that because I see alot of red flags in your post in terms of being able to "control" your reactions. (sadly that may be true too)" I know you're beating yourself up right now, for what you see as your contributions to the state of your marriage. Please remember, that no matter how much you lovebusted....you didn't deserve to be disrespected and cheated on. However, you have a choice to make now about whether you want to continue to lovebust. It's not unusual once affairs are exposed....for them to end, because secrecy creates fantasy. Perhaps you don't need a "formal" separation as much as you need a small "break" from this pain so that you can regroup and get in control of your own emotions. Do you have a peaceful, thoughtful place where you might go for a few days? I'd also like to see you consider taking Steven Stosny's "Compassionate Power" series to help you on an individual level no matter the outcome of your marriage.

((((((((((((((((((TD))))))))))))))))))))

"There are also things he did on D-Day that I don't think anyone would say were okay to do."

Tired Dad - Your wife is feeling sorry for herself here. She is still in that self-righteous stage. Your D-day was the D-day from H%**. Not only did you have to find about your wife's horrible betrayal, but you had to put up with all of the flack here.

I know that you feel very powerless right now, but actually you are the one that has all of the power. You would be perfectly justified in divorcing your wife, without further discussion.

The main reason I want to encourage you to hang in there is because Mom 2 3 says that your wife is a good woman who made a mistake. I'm hoping that you will give this some time, and then be willing to give it your best effort.

T-D - I still haven't seen you address the "evidence of abuse" question posed by Zuzu -

The evidence includes:

playing cat-and-mouse with your children - she can see the children after she does this, and that, and more, and more.

Demands that she give back the ring

Calling the cops over and making her state in front of them that she's doing this of her own free will - and that any future accusations of abuse should be neutralized by what they have seen.

That last one - gave me the absolute freak-out-creeps - like you were setting the stage for one h*ll-of-a-beating! Verbal, physical? who knows? but if I had been a cop witnessing that behavior, I'd have been worried about your wife - it's very scary behavior for a husband to do.

I have never seen you address your wife's statement about your actions a week after d-day.

Did she lie? or are you minimizing very scary behavior?

On D-day, I caled her several times asking her to bring the kids home and talk to me. She refused. She also denied any A, even when she knew I knew. In fact, I clearly remember asking her "how long has this been going on?", and her saying "what are you talking about?", "you know what I am talking about, how long has it been going on?" Then she said "this is exactly what I am talking about with you. you keep playing games. this is why I am going to D you because you keep playing games". Then she hung up on me. She now says the "OM convinced her that she should be afraid for her and the kids well-being". I am not or ever have been a physically violent man, PERIOD.

They both (OM and W) knew that I was on my way home from work (45 minute drive) with the email evidence because I had called OMW and told her I was on my way, and she called her H and asked what I was talking about. My W and OM talked several times that morning and day, and W still cannot (will not) give me a clear recollection of their discussions.

W dropped my kids off at her moms house and went to see a lawyer. Remember, she had told me earlier in my 9 weeks of he11 pre-D-day, when everything was my fault, that if I did not voluntarily give her a seperation that she had looked in to the laws and could get a restraining order keeping me out of the house. That is what in my mind she was doing.

Finally, after she was done with her lawyer, she went back to her mothers to find that the kids were not there. At this point it is clear to me that she still was planning on leaving me and going to OM that day.

I was thinking that she got her court order so I didn't want her to be able to serve anything to me or the kids. I asked my SIL to drive the kids around the county, to not leave the county, until she heard from me. I was not going to let W serve papers taking my kids away from me.

Finally, W called me wanting the kids. I told her they were fine. She wanted them. I said that we needed to talk first. So, she drove to where I was at. Phone records indicate that she talked to OM the whole drive over to see me. I guess it was at this point where OM said his W was threatening to take their kids out of state, my W didn't have access to her kids, so suddenly both valiently and heroicaly decide to forgo their soul-mate love for each other and save their marriages. Wow, I am SO touched by that.

Yes I said that I wanted answers before we could both go to where the kids were. But, in hindsight, she continued to lie to me. After we talked for 3-4 hours, I went to call my SIL about the kids, W called OM and left a VM saying "I told him we never had sex". So, the deciet continued....

The ring deal... for several weeks she refused to wear her wedding rings and a 10th anniversary ring. Curiously, when she was packing her bags to leave me forever on d-day morning, she took them. Honestly, I did not want the wedding rings, but I did want to anniversary ring for financial purposes. At that time I was 100% certain that I would D her as soon as I could get the papers in, and the ring is worth $5k or so....

I asked for it and she refused. I said I wanted it but that she could keep the wedding rings. We were at "friends" house, the friend who assisted W in hiding the affair by watching my kids and lying to me. In the middle of "us" talking, this friend had a warrant served on her and was in the process of going to jail. Yes, quite the great friend my W choose.

In my mind, I know how the law works... if a female claims spousal abuse, the H goes to jail immediately until things are worked out. In my thinking, the FACTS were that my W had betrayed me in the ultimate way for several weeks and had lied to my face about it for several weeks. I trusted her less at that time than I would a complete stranger. So yes, I asked the cop to witness that W gave me the ring of her free will. Yes, I did mention my fear that she would call the cops on me later in the evening and have me sent to jail on false abuse charges. Considering what she did to me, would that be much of a stretch? She had no loyalty to me, and had OM who she wanted much more than me. She basically admits that the sole purpose in her returning to me that day was for her kids and because OM was worried about losing his kids.

As far as any additional actions a week after d-day... the only thing I can think of was when we were fighting and she wanted to leave the house and said she was taking the kids with her. I did not want her to take my kids. She said they were her kids and she could take them if she wanted. She said she was taking them to her mothers house for the night so that she could cool off. I said go and cool off all you want, but leave my kids here. She told me she was taking them. I had an appointment to go to, I could not /would not physicaly stop her from taking them, so, I used the only leverage I had and said that if she took my kids away while I was at my appt. when I said I did not want her to then I would be forced to file for a D the next morning. She now says that is me keeping her hostage in her own home. No, she could / can come and go as she pleases. But I will not let her take my kids away from me. I may have been a less than stellar husband in the past, admittedly, but what she did far outweighs my instances of emotional neglect / abondonment. And I have done NOTHING to justify me losing my kids. My relationship with my W is one matter, but I have never been absent fromm my kids. They know how much I love them. I show them affection every day. I tell them I love them multiple times a day. I spend the majority of my free time with them coaching sports, etc.... I am a good father. I am there for my kids and each and every one of them knows that I love them unconditionally. Am I a perfect father? No. But I will say with confidence that I am a pretty good one.

TD - I think most of the folks who have been through a D-day completely understand your actions. I rhink one of the main reasons BS's tend to get very emotional is because they have just found out about months of deceit and betrayal. The WS knew all of this time what was going on.

Usually the BS has been through countless events that just don't make sense - as the WS was lying to cover-up their affair. When the truth is revealed, all these things suddenly add up, and it is very overwhelming. Your actions were rather mild compared to some.

I'm sure folks will go on and on about what you did, or didn't do, but I hope you will try to move on.

What you need to realize right now is that, like the Harleys say, you are probably the biggest risk to your marriage right now. I hope that you will contact the Harleys. You say that your wife prefers not to, but I think that talking to an expert would help YOU.

You have been fighting for your marriage for quite some time now, mostly alone. I think you need some solid, professional help. While it might seem expensive, the Harleys can usually cut to the chase and advise you what to do NOW. That is what you need, instead of this endless rehashing of your previous actions. Heaven knows, enough people have pointed out the mistakes you have made - you have a list long enough to work on the rest of your life. So please give yourself a break, and make an appointment.

And keep posting here. There are many of us that support you.

No abuse here.

1) She had already been playing the cat-and-mouse games with the kids and had previously threatened to take them. He is there father and has a right to protect his family.

2) The ring was a significant marital asset. He had a claim to it. That's not abuse.

3) Calling the police was a prudent measure to protect himself, as she had previously threatened him with a restraining order. Besides, if she was afraid of him, why would she have a problem with the police being there?

Low

Can anyone give me some advice on what to do when W is saying that she is giving all that she can give at this time, but that is not enough to sustain me to be able to cope?

I told her last night that I sit around just waiting for her to give me some indication that I have any other option than D, but that I just don't see it right now. I am desperate to see something from her to give me hope.

Yes, she makes small gestures here and there. And I acknowledge that. I just know that I desperately WANT to get over her A but I need her help and support to do so, and she is not able or is not willing to do so.

I feel backed in to a corner all over again. As I said earlier, every day I am feeling a little more lost, depressed, deeper in despair.

So again, what can I do to eliminate LB's and continue to try to save my M when my W cannot provide the emotional support I need to cope?

One final thought on the above... the whole "be a man" "be strong" mantra I get. And I am trying.

But to me, that means steeling my emotions against the pain.

I cannot do this with a happy face and a smile. The only emotion that i can muster that can overcome the hurt and despair is anger. So I can either walk around looking like a whipped dog begging for sympathy, or I can walk around with a pis$ed off look on my face letting everybody know to keep their distance.

Neither is the greatest. However, the past few days have made my emotions sway towards the pis$ed off phase...

Yesterday, Church really helped. I have a lot of friends there who do care. But I cannot confide in EVERYONE. My W is already pis$ed that I confided in several people.
Unfortunately, the comfort I experienced at Church rapidly faded upon returning home.

MC tonight.... hopefully it can help get my emotions settled somewhat. I know that I cannot let this control every aspect of my life, regardless of the outcome.