whew....I was trying to imagine Mr Pep with prune fingers from washing the cars of all his casual work contacts!

From what I've witnessed -

BR is an [censored]-kicker with a purpose...not an [censored]-kicker for sport!

Maybe to keep from being censored you can say can say [censored]- as long as there's an (-) next to it!!

Froz ....

read this

http://www.birthpsychology.com/birthscene/adoption4.html

"And all that love and care we give to the adoptee often has a hard time 'getting in'."

"I discovered that it was easier for us to give her love than it was for her to accept it."

"On very deep levels, adoptees often feel it is too dangerous to love and be loved, authentically and deeply; they can't trust that they won't be hurt or abandoned again."

..... so she marries a man one month after D-day to make certain her concerns about the dangers and risks of love are correct.

Understand now why I think this is crucial for you to explore?

wow Pep ~ that was excellent!

I've lived it.

We are all doing splendidly now, by the way. Praise God.

Well, I read that, nodding my head and glad that it confirmed all the things I had guessed about Froz...

But more importantly ~ you know how you read something and just instinctively, your gut KNOWS the truth of what is being said?

Mother and baby bond is something that I have firmly believed for YEARS is made too light of. That infants have emotional needs and have the RIGHT to have those needs met is something that I STRONGLY believe in.

Nothing makes me crazier than to hear an infant crying in emotional distress, and to see adults intentionally denying the comfort that child needs for fear of "spoiling" the child.

I've been known to act a little nuts, reprimanding mothers on the street for doing that. You hit one of my hot buttons!

I'm also a firm believer that our intimacy issues are strongly affected by our experiences from before birth.

I did a "CHAMPS" course with my kids a few years back, and one thing the therapist in charge explained to us parents during the parenting sessions, was that children's personalities are 75% formed before they are even 9 months old.

I thought MY love alone would fix these beautiful children God entrusted to us.

I was wrong. It was equal parts arrogance and ignorance.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> That's me ... ill informed and PROUD of it ! LOL <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I've come a long way baby !

In a previous discussion earlier this month, Froz said to me...

"Cold and stony felt way better than hurt and crying."

This is her infancy wounded child speaking.

Don't we all tend to make that mistake?

I think we have a society that preaches to us, from birth, that Love will fix everything.

Unfortunately, human love and God's Love are not distinguished.

And we all think are God!

I know I did.

And I completely agree. And the rejection by her birth mother as an adult compounded this wound. Her own mother told her it was true that she was unlovable.

(grrrrr...this does make me angry! Hmmm, lol, something to think about!)

I know that. I was just explaining where the habit may have originated.

Also, Patriot doesn't have hair. Isn't that ironic? A bald guy marries a hairdresser? He can't capitalize on free haircuts or even discount professional hair care products.

I am not asking him questions to control him. I ask him questions because I'm interested in him. I ask him questions because the way his mind works is interesting to me. I ask him questions because the more I know about him, the closer I feel to him.

You may be reading more into the career comment than is actually there. It was just background info.




I actually would have guessed this about you. If you had asked me to guess your career, I would have guessed that you were a nurse.



Not yet, but I'll explore it. You know I'm a slow learner.




Me, too. Didn't know you could love an infant too much. Seems pretty senseless to deny a baby comfort so they can "get used to it".




I have much admiration for the way you have explored these issues for the benefit of your children. They are very lucky to have you for a mother.




Geez, Pep, do you have a catalogue of all my previous comments???




That it did. That's probably the most painful thing about it all. I do understand though, BrambleRose, your explanation of her guilt. I know she felt guilty. That just doesn't seem like a great way to deal with guilt to me. She lied to me, too. She told me many things about my biological father that were completely untrue (I found out from the adoption agency years later that she had lied).

A lot of people take so for granted the blessing of knowing where they came from. It makes me angry that some lady sitting behind a desk is privvy to this information and it's against the law for me to have it. I would really love to know simple things like - who I look like, who my ancestors are, what my grandparents were like, my medical history. I hate filling out forms at the doctor's office where they ask medical history. I always feel like some kind of alien when I write "history unknown." I would also love to be able to share my family history with my children.

I used to think that I was brought into our childrens' lives to 'save' them....

how stupid

THEY have been a major part of MY salvation !

I would NEVER have studied about God had it not been for my children... Raising kids literally brought me to my knees in a moment of surrendering.

People have said to me ... "Your kids are so lucky to have you."

I think ... the reverse is more accurate. My life is far deeper and more difficult and infinately more challenging because of my children. And this has all been benificial to my salvation, my soul, my very existance .... our marriage ..... everything has fit together in such a way only God could imagine.

My infertility was not some sort of unfair punishment !!! it was a gift so I would experience these 2 particular challenging people ... our kids ! LOL

Geez, Pep, do you have a catalogue of all my previous comments???



[color:"blue"] HA !

When I read your reply on this thread this AM ... I looked up that other thread to make comparisons of your comments today. I wrote down a few quotes I thought were important to today's discussion ... the "cold and stony" remark I decided was not relevant ... until we merged into the infant primal wound area....

I have no more quotes at the ready .... but i might go back and dig up more


just kidding <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> hee hee [/color]

That is a beautiful perspective.

You sure about that? Something tells me you'll be digging in the future...

Froz .... you will know something deep about yourself when you are praying and you hear yourself thanking God for all the problems you face.

This was one of THE most stubborn things about myself I had to deal with ... acceptance that my life's problems were actually a blessing ...if I become willing to surrender my will to His will.

AMEN.

lol. Pep, you ain't got nuthin on stubborn over me.

My sponsor even had to admit that she had never met anyone as stubborn as me.

Sigh. She had to tell me REPEATEDLY: BR, get on your knees and pray for the WILLINGNESS TO BE WILLING (to surrender).

lol. that's still something I have to constantly be aware of about myself.

I'm a damn stubborn broad.

You are a freakin' pit bull with a favorite bone obsession !

.... and that's why I trust you when I recognize I need an [censored]-kickin' .... YOU 'da man !

LOL