Dear Lark:<BR>I did not mean to attack you and my apologizes go out to you. Yes you stated your opinion and I welcome all opinions. BUT, I felt that K was attacking me and that I did not appreciate it. I was really referring to K. K attacked me unjustifyably without knowing the actual reasons. I don't always get the responses in my other posts that I wnat to hear, but, this is why I post so members can tell me their side. I am open to all suggestions, comments and feelings of what other people think. Some of the comments/suggestions I do take into consideration and follow the advise. Others, I don't. BUT, again, as I said, I will not stand to be attacked. Sorry, but in that case, I have to stand up and say something.<BR>Again, I did not mean to offend you or the other member.

Dear K,<BR>Now, if you would have approached me in the manner that you did in this recent post, I would have not responded in the way I had. If your going to attack someone, they are not going to listen to a word you say and put up a defensive shield. I obviously was not the only one, since some other members wrote back to you and told you that they disagreed with you. We are all free to disagree and agree to disagree, but, I refuse to let someone attack me without defending myself. I appreciate your response and will apply the marriage builders. Also, I must point out that some of us, such as me, are new to this forum. I have been here for about 2 months. I still have alot ot learn from marriage builders. So, please keep in mind, when attacking others for what you strongly feel that is against marriage builders, not all of us are new and know exactly what to do in our situation or if we are following the marriage builders rules. It would have been more helpful to point out what I should have followed instead of thrusting your anger out at me.

Katya,<P>I've avoided this thread for some time, although I read your original post several days ago.<P>I feel compelled to write, and now I wish I had written right away so that others could take what I'm saying and digest it as well. Twelve yrs. after my H had 2 OW, I became one myself. This is nothing I am proud of at all. My affair lasted 3 months, and it has been three months since it ended. Originally, my H threatened to do something similair to what you did. He did not for two reasons only: we both work there, so getting him in trouble would mean getting me in trouble and he didn't want ME to lost my job, and I had immediate and gut wrenching remorse for what I'd done. When I was the W who watched her H and his precious OW, I wanted to get those women with a vengance, especially one of them who I KNEW was cheating the California welfare system. I didn't turn her in, but I did call her and we met on July 3, 1987, where she spewed Bible verses as me and said my H loved us both, but he'd chosen me and I should feel lucky. Actually, I did feel lucky, considering. When my affair happened, like many others here, I was out of my mind, confused and a total and complete idiot. I made the worst, worst, choice of my entire life and I knew it. I changed my life, and my H's life, forever, no matter what happens. Thing is: if the OM's common-law W had done what you did, even after it ended, I probably would have killed myself, and that is not some idle threat. I was so close to dying, closer than anyone would ever know. I was on anti-deps, and anti-anxiety pills, seeing a therapist and my dr. weekly, lost 25 pounds in 2 weeks, and I wanted to die. <P>Although I applaud your desire to hold on to your family, and you answered the prayers of many on the forum vicariously, I just want people to know that sometimes when you do something like this that it is no exaggeration to say that people could die, not just lose their job.<P>I wish you continued success in your marriage. <P>------------------<BR>Marriage: the most important contract you'll ever enter into, and the most sacred.<BR>

Katya,<P>I just wanted to say that I remember you from the Emotional Needs Board, and I thought that you had posted something like "no sex, no intimacy for 2 years".<P>If that was true, and I hope its not, I am praying that this situation is truly the way you see it- Over and done with. But something about him being that distant with you for 2 whole years- I wonder if it is going to be so easy for him to just dump her and go on with you. If he doesn't seem to be in withdrawal, I'd be wondering if he's not finding some other way to contact her besides through work. He must have felt something strong for her to have no intimacy with you for that long, and its not going to go away with a snap of the fingers. Of course, I dont' know you or him, and I could be off base. Just giving an observation. <P>Also, when my OM's wife did pretty much what you have done (we also all worked together), he felt for me- so it kind of backfired. I hope that doesn't happen to you. Good luck, you sound like you have a good head on your shoulders and a lot of confidence. that's great. tamis

Dear New Beginning:<BR>Thank you for sharing your story with me. It is really unfortuate that you had gone through all that. I am sorry for you. But, we learn from our experiences and mistakes, thus, hopefully making us a better person. I understand what you are saying, but, where is the concern for the betrayed at the time of the affair. I know the focus is on the betrayer, but, there is also the devastating effect that the affair plays on the person who has gotten betrayed. Especially as in the case of the member, "catnip" who has had a 20 year marriage crushed by another woman. Imagine the devastating pain and agony and constant flashbacks of what has happenned to her that she now lives with. Although, I am sorry for the pain you have lived through, there are those of us who receive the pain that do not deserve it. In my situation with the job, my H and the ow do not work together. They work for different companies. Just as a note.<BR>I hope that your recovery is going well for you and will have you in my prayers.

I think what you did, Katya, is great.<P>My H has an emotional need for me to fight for him. He's said a few times and even wrote in his diary that I'm the only woman who's ever fought for him. He loved it. Makes him feel loved and valued.<P>Ya, it's a screwed up "game" - he makes me jealous and I confront the women (done it twice), but it worked. He hasn't done it since because he knows my reaction will be swift and politely to the point with her. I guess I've already proved myself to him so he no longer needs me to prove it any more. <P>I'm not gonna sit idly by fixing home-cooked meals and massaging my man hoping he'll forget about his OW - I'd rather face the third party head-on and let her know she's in for a long tough road if she wants my H. I'm not for wringing my hands and falling to my knees to save all that I've worked so hard to have - heaven help the woman who gets between my H & me. <P>Like Lynn Anderson's song - "If you wanna get to him you gotta get past me and I ain't going anywhere!" What's the title? I forget, something like "women like you are a dime a dozen.."<P>Anyway, it's nice to meet a woman with backbone and fearlessness. Afterall, no man is better than a bad man, right? We can take care of ourselves and if he can't meet his vowed standards of behavior...then adios! <P>Take care, sister. You're going to be just fine.

Dear Tamis:<BR>Thank you for your response. Yes, it is true, that we have not had sex for 2 years...it will be 2 years in November to be exact. He told me that he has been talking to this om for a year now. I don't know what he was doing before than. I agree with you, and that it may not be easy for him, but I don't know because he denies that to me. He could be denying to spare my feelings, I don't know. But, I wonder that also if he wants or has tried to contact her...I don't know. I know that he has been depressed even more so. I guess that effect is bothering him OR his job is at a very very stressful time. He told me it's very very hectic at work and seems very stressed out. Could be, don't know. I suppose that it will take some time for him to "get over her"...but this is why I did what I did to get rid of her and out of our lives so we can concentrate on us. I will be on guard and hope for the best. I can only work hard on my end and hope that he does the same. I cannot chase him anymore. If he does go back to her, it's the end. Or, if he decides to do this sort of thing with someone else. I will not bother to do this again, call her and whatever else...to me, that would be the end and he would not be worth keeping. Thank you for your compliment. I always do wonder if members think I am a nutball or if I know what I am talking about. I guess it helps to have gone through alot of personal experiences, but, also going for my masters for marital therapy. Abviously, I have alot to still learn. Thank you and good luck with you. I'll post on your situation sometime and see how you are doing also.

Katya -<P>GOOD FOR YOU!!!!! I only wish I could do something like that. Regards and blessings,<P>--Wex

When I discovered evidence of my wife's affair, I called the OM's home and left a message on their machine for his wife to call me, that I had information regarding her husband and my wife. Well, the OM called me after hearing the message and claimed not to know who my wife was, and I had better stop HARRASSING his family. Within two minutes of that call, his wife called me and wanted to know who I was and what was going on. I told her that I had found a MOUNTAIN of evidence regarding my wife and her husband's affair. You see, my wife is a packrat and saves EVERYTHING. At first she didn't believe me, but as I read some of the steamy email that I had found she realized that it was true. All this time, the jerk is in the room with her, denying everything and calling me a nut, that I was crazy. THEN, I made my wife talk to her and tell her everything. At that point the OM's wife was RAGING mad at him. Yelling, screaming, name calling, the works. All he could do was babble incoherently. She left him that day, and I Priority Mailed her copies of all the correspondence that I had uncovered. With any luck, the piece of **** is now wearing a barrel and living in the streets. Did I mention that they have one infant child, and his wife was 5 months pregnant at the time? What a piece of work. So yes, I support everything that you've done. Best of Luck on the home front, that will be your greatest challenge.

When I discovered evidence of my wife's affair, I called the OM's home and left a message on their machine for his wife to call me, that I had information regarding her husband and my wife. Well, the OM called me after hearing the message and claimed not to know who my wife was, and I had better stop HARRASSING his family. Within two minutes of that call, his wife called me and wanted to know who I was and what was going on. I told her that I had found a MOUNTAIN of evidence regarding my wife and her husband's affair. You see, my wife is a packrat and saves EVERYTHING. At first she didn't believe me, but as I read some of the steamy email that I had found she realized that it was true. All this time, the jerk is in the room with her, denying everything and calling me a nut, that I was crazy. THEN, I made my wife talk to her and tell her everything. At that point the OM's wife was RAGING mad at him. Yelling, screaming, name calling, the works. All he could do was babble incoherently. She left him that day, and I Priority Mailed her copies of all the correspondence that I had uncovered. With any luck, the piece of **** is now wearing a barrel and living in the streets. Did I mention that they have one infant child, and his wife was 5 months pregnant at the time? What a piece of work. So yes, I support everything that you've done. Best of Luck on the home front, that will be your greatest challenge.

Well, I've been reading this thread for a few days and I find them all pretty interesting. Guess I'm as much entitled to my opinion as the next guy. <BR>Katya,the difference between what you did and what the other people on this thread did is that you took it way past taking a stand for your marriage and confronting the OW. You took revenge. You weren't protecting your relationship, you were protecting your ego. You sound as if you are more furious that she pulled one over on you than that she was involved with your husband. I applaud what "catnip" did. To me THAT is proactive. She had questions, she went straight to the source. Not to her boss or anyone else. Right to her. She handled herself with class. She met that women face to face and acted the way a classy dignified woman would act. It would have been way easier for her to get on the phone. No wonder her marriage is making strides. She didn't manipulate anyone. And she was straight forward with her husband about what she was doing. <P>You seem to fly off the handle at anyone that doesn't agree with your tactics. Even throwing in a couple of cheap shots along the way at those that differ with you. No one is posting here and doing nothing about their own situations. That was a very childish comment. Everyone here is just trying to cope, trying to make sense of the turn that thier lives have taken, trying to find support. Not everything that is posted here is correct. It's opinions. If someone disagrees with you, it's not a personal attack. It's just the way they view the situation based on the little bit of info that they got from the post. You seem awfuly defensive for someone that is confident that what she did was the way to go. Best of luck to you.<BR>

Sometimes the threat to the marriage needs to be removed so that the betrayer can see what he/she really wants. We all know how affairs are pure fantasy and not based on reality, and cloud the betrayer's judgement . Seems to me that removing the fantasy will make the betrayer better able to make a good decision once they are not exposed to the temptation of the OP any longer. Bravo, Katya!!!!!

Dear Lady M;<BR>That is exactly my point. How could I ever work on anything if she is there. Even though my husband did talk to her and tell her. I just used a backup to make sure.

I'm still astounded that Katya thinks K attacked her!! Katya, I know you're "new" around here, but you really need to do a little research around here. K is a voice of sanity and respect here on this forum. He had been posting long before I got onto the scene almost 6 months ago. From what I understand, he has a good client/counselor relationship with Steve Harley himself. He was merely alerting you to the fact that what you did may have gone against the MB principles, and after all, this IS the Marriage Builders site.<P>How on earth you could deduce that he "attacked" you by voicing his opinion is beyond me. I think you just want everyone to jump up and down and applaud you like so many others on this thread have done. Look, if you are happy with how you handled things, good for you. That's all that matters. But K, myself, and a few others were only pointing out some things that you may have overlooked. If you are going to hang around this forum for awhile, I strongly suggest you don't take these so personally when someone offers you a differing opinion. Take care.

Dear Joan:<BR>We all need to do what we have to do to move on. Glad things are going well for you.

Dear Lark:<BR>You already stated your opinion and I have stated mine. I don't think I need to reiterate what I have already said and don't need to apologize again. Obviously, you have not read a thing I posted. If you are this bitter, perhaps you shouldn't post anything on my board because apologizes don't mean a thing to do and I'm not going to go back and forth with you like everyone did with Podperson.