HLR...

No, you did nothing wrong. You need to tell her how you're feeling. You cannot keep it bottled up or you'll go nuts. She is reflecting the blame onto you. Yes, she's in WD, yes she's hurting but she needs to help you and I DON"T SEE HER DOING THAT... (there, I feel better).

If she feels remorse for what she did, and wants to make your marriage work then she should WANT to help. Despite how bad she is hurting. IMO... I don't see her making the attempt.

HLR... tell me, what has SHE done to help you? What has SHE done to help your marriage?

You, on the other hand, have done so much. You've tried talking to her, giving her reading material, giving her support and so much more.

I do have one suggestion. Give her space. Unfortunately, this will make or break it. She probably still has emotional ties to the OM and is in a fog. By giving her space, you can provide her with "time to think" and make her way out of the fog.

You'll need to set boundries so she does not see this as an opportunity to fall back and see the OM.

Some boundries...

1. She must keep up NC.
2. She must check in with you when leaving work or going to be somewhere different. You must stress this just needs to be a quick call, and do not drill her.
3. Have dinner together but keep the conversation to the daily events and not about the A.
4. Talk about your relationship, but do not push blame on each other. She needs to do this.
5. Talk about triggers, what sets her and you off, and try to avoid (some) them. She may open up...

Some other suggestions...

Tell her there is something you'd like from her to do for you that would really make you feel better.

Ask her to make a list of things she loves/likes about you. Tell her you need to hear that right now, you need feel,see, hear that from her.

Later but not now, ask her to make a list of things she dislikes about the OM. The list may be short at first but believe me it'll grow. Don't even ask to see it right away, wait until she brings it up then "ask" if you can see it.

Do not let this "giving her space thing" hold you back from your own recovery. GO to IC... Let her see you are working on getting better, maybe she' see a change in you and want to do the same for herself.

This will also make her feel like she's participating in the recovery. She seems to be pretty intelligent, LEt her feel like she has that going for her... I know now she feels bad for hurting you, she proably feels ike [email]cr@p.[/email]

Good Luck my friend...

Undo

Suzet* , b0b pure* , dorry, ML, Just Learning, ItHurtzSoBad, Hemidart, Carolyn73, ForeverHers, undo, truetoself and everyone;

Up to now I have told her about MB but not that I have been seeking all of your help.

I believe withholding the truth is also a lie. I have been trying to get her to understand and visit this site.

I have been wanting to tell her that I have been posting here, but have been advised to wait from some of you. So now I want to know should I tell her now or wait?

I say tell her... sometimes when I see Hopeful4Future's words of pain they really hit home for me. I think she'll get upset but I think it will help.

--Undo

Here's something Just Listening told us that I think could help you and your wife HLR...

"YOU make the call concerning her value to you, to your marriage, not her. It is you that sees the worth in rebuilding this marriage and although she has made some serious errors in judgement, you wanting her as your spouse after all of that trumps HER feelings of failure or undesirability.

That is the part of recovery that is often missed by the WS. That is that part that the BS often messes up. You as the BS set the tone, you set the value of your spouse based on your need for her in your life. You chose to stay married or leave.

The WS has lots to do in recovery, but alot of what they feel, how they recover, is based on how well you reflect back to her the goodness you see in her. She for awhile will need to see herself through your eyes, before she can see herself in a positive way."

Hope this helps...

Undo

HLR Squid knows everything about this site but won;t visit. For months she said it was " American self-help mind wanking", but recently the truth came out. " Everyone on there will think I'm a slut".

Its a hard place to visit for a WS or a FWS.
I think you must tell her you post here because people affected by affairs can get help here, WS or BS.

And make sure whetever you write is viewable by your W.

The counseling has helped my H so much. He (SH) is very fair and not judgemental. H and I both feel very comfortable and fairly treated. H is not made out to be the bad guy, but does have to learn some things about himself. Just keep trying to get her to look at some of the articles and I think she will find that the WS is treated fairly most if not all of the time. I know I have really appreciated some of the posts made by WSs and they would have so much to offer her...but yes, first she needs to want to read them. Perhaps you could find a few ideas or thoughts she could relate to and introduce what you are reading about that way. It might just make her curious enough about this site and she could take a look for herself.
She is definitely in defense mode right now. I would encourage you to be yourself, be honest without being too hateful (yes, believe me, I know that is a tall order), and let her know that you will work on your end of things with or without her.
I cannot believe she would not eventually come around, but then I have not been a WS.....God only knows what they are thinking. Hang in there.
I am a little ahead of you in this process and the fact that my H is doing absolutely EVERYTHING he can to help me through this helps tremendously and it is still the most gut-wrenching, horrible, crippling pain I have ever experienced. The fact that you are going it alone makes me feel so bad for you. You really do need to stay plugged in here and get the support you need.
I will be praying that your wife will have eyes to see what is real in your situation and that her heart will soften to you and she will be able to face the hard work it will take both of you to get through this.
If you like to read, His Needs, Her Needs was the first thing my husband and I did together. We would read a chapter a night before bed. Lots of other good material out there, too.
Bless You, friend.

Awww Squid - funny thing is that something like never has crossed my mind - from your posts Bob I feel I know Squid and I think she is a great woman! She's come a long way and i have to say I am extremely proud of her!!!

Yes Bob, you're right. As a FWS this site has helped me alot. It took me a bit, I felt self-concious but I figured Hopeful4Future was saying such good things I figured I'd humor him... And to my surprise there were people out here that feel the same way and I do and have/are going through the same thing and me too. Plus, it helps to put things into perspective by putting them into words too.

She'll never know unless she tries.

Undo

HLR,

I've read many of your posts over the past weeks, and your WW sounds very much like mine.

The main thing I've realized with her is anything more than slight nudges in a direction will cause her to pull back even farther. If she saw me in pain over the A, it caused her to close up and appear distant from me. If I initiated talks about us she bottled up as well.

The acceptance and realization of what the A has done also appears to be like a person slowly immersing themself in a cold pool. She slowly is realizing the pain and damage caused as she wades out deeper. But if I have a breakdown and unload all my pain and sadness upon her, its like I'm pushing her headlong into that water. She inevitably ends up leaping out and starting all over.

When they are still in withdrawal you can't really expect them to care too much about you yet. My WW has days once in a while where she is very caring and affectionate suddenly. She'll hug, kiss, run her hand in my hair, etc. Then the next few days she'll be distant again. This has only begun for me and it's been nearly six months since D-Day! It's a long road HLR.

As good as it is that she sees your pain, she also needs to see the man she fell in love with. How were you when you first attracted her? It was the hardest thing for me to do at first, but eventually I became confident and took care of myself. That which attracted my WW when we first met was rediscovered and she pursues me often now (imagine that!).

I have tried being the man she feel in-love with the one that wrote her love notes every day and gave her flowers every week. But she has told me that is not me any more…I told her it should have been and I’m sorry that I ever slowed down…I never stopped but they have been to far in-between. So I leave her love cards, notes and sometimes flowers.

After all she is the LOVE OF MY LIFE!

I agree, Squid sounds like a wonderful person based on the things you say about her. Wouldn't she be surprised to know that we are not all flipping her the bird across the miles! LOL! She is fortunate to have someone with the maturity you posess to help her in her part of this journey.
It has been 5-6 months for us (based on which story version you count), and I am just beginning to see that my FWS has such a hard road ahead of him and that his journey will be one of much pain and the need of forgiveness of himself.....one of the hardest things to do, IMHO.
Just this last week I had a real breakthrough in my forgiveness of him......memories still there, hurt still there, mucho work to still be done, but the hate has lost its strangle-hold on me and I find that each day I CHOOSE to walk in forgiveness is a better day than if I indulge my hurt......which by the way, I don't think anyone should feel bad about for a season, when they have gone through this kind of hurt.
Bob, keep writing and giving those behind you some glimmers of what can be.

HLR,

Don't go overboard on your efforts. If you go too far in the other direction it will push her away as well. My WW reacted similar to your WW in response to my changes. She said it wasn't really me, or that I was just feeling challenged. Then she became angry. Angry because I should have been this great guy BEFORE the A.

Anyhow, when I spoke to Steve Harley, he said her reaction is normal. The key is for me (you) to be consistant and she will eventually get over those feelings.

Like I said, it's been about six months, and my WW no longer questions if they way I am now is real. She's accepted my changes as permanent.

She has called me a few times this afternoon and sounds sad; she talks to the point than says goodbye. Usually she’ll say “I Love You, Good bye.”

I think she is pulling away and I want to console her but I’m unsure if that’s the right thing to do?

HLR,

If she is truly in NC and going through withdrawal then this sounds normal to me. Anti-depressants have helped my WW a lot in this stage.

If she's telling you that she loves you then I think that's a great thing! She's not gonna be chipper for a while though, regardless of how much she cares or appreciates you. Just be the strong caring person she needs for now. Be happy, yet caring and empathetic even when she is down.

For a long while after D-Day I'd have horrible anxiety as I drove home for lunch or after work. It was because whatever mood my WW was in was controlling what mood I was in. If she was happy, I was happy, if she was down, I'd get down. It's not easy, but you need to find the confidence and happiness within yourself, not from her. Once you can do this, you can be her friend when she is happy and her supporter when she is down. Either way, you are someone she wants to be with. Someone that makes her feel safe.

Exposing your feelings a mistake?

It depends. Is your wife a repentent former ws? Or a ws who isn't sure about recommitting to your marriage.

While I was in my waffling days, there was nothing more UNattractive to me than my needy BS. (sorry but true)

I hated (HATED!!!!!) the idea of having to be responsible for his feelings.

I was really really angry. Everytime he tried to do anything nice/romantic/sweet -- it triggered major anger in me. Why couldn't he do any of this sh** BEFORE my affair?

If your wife is sorry and repentent then you're probably fine showing your feelings.
If she's anything like me, avoid it.

Lexxxy,

She has told me that the A is completely over and loves me. I'm the one struggling with the pain and that pain seems to cause her more pain and that’s what I have been talking about.

HLR,

If she is dealing with withdrawal from the NC still you need to stay strong for a while longer. She's not ready to deal with your pain at the moment, at least not on your terms. If she brings the topic up, then discuss it with her, but don't bring it up yourself.

You are feeling safer and more close to her now that her A is over, but it's still a painful situation for her. Give her time to heal and grieve a bit. Find someone else to talk to if you need comfort (male friend, family, counselor, this forum). She'll come around, but not now.

HLR, Like lexxxy, Squid responded agressively to gestures of romance or affection after d-day and during early recovery.

She says it felt like a trick.

In truth GESTURES aren't really useful froma BS IMO, only consistent manifestations of a changed and committed spouse.

Beware that you don't shower affection on your FWW out of fear rather than love.

You must realise something that may sound scary but is in fact quit eliberating: You can;t do anything to make your W stay if she doesn;lt want to, not can you make her go if she doesn't want to.

You can influence but not direct her decision.

Your earlier 'lovebuster' will not push her away, any more than lots of flowers and notes will draw her nearer.

Meeting her ENs persistently will cement your love for her and rekindle her love for you. That sets a healthy context for recovery to take place.

Occasional gestures are lovely, but don't use gestures instead of REAL change and effort.

All blessings.

I placed a lot of blame for my self-destruction on my BS.
I was really really angry that he wasn't the man I needed him to be until it was too late.

To be suddenly showered with attention and gifts and **love** after being neglected for years, was the most phony thing in the world to me.

When the Harleys say to "demonstrate" your changes in Plan A -- they know what they are talking about. You must demonstrate with no expections in return.

The wall around me was 20 feet high. I was very guarded, and never believed that my H had truly changed from the inside out. It was just a ploy (temporarily) to get me back, then it would all revert back to how it was. Why would I sign up for that deal??

So your expections that she help you heal won't work. She has to heal first.

It was supremely unfair to me that I had been a rock-solid wife and mother for umpteen years, with a neglectful husband. When I was vulnerable and craved having attention and getting my needs met by someone, I justified it. For me to forever be the "bad guy" and for HIM to be the "good guy" in everyone's eyes was even more angering. He didn't deserve everyone's sympathy. UGH.

That's where I would be careful in portraying yourself as the victim of her evilness. My opinion.

So your expections that she help you heal won't work. She has to heal first.

Healing from the effects of the affair can only begin once recovery is established IME. For both spouses.

Lexxxy it takes two people to make an unsatisfying marriage but only one chooses to have an affair.

IMO while SOME action is justified in response to a neglectful or abusive spouse, an affair is never justified.

Squid blamed me for almost FORCING her into an affair after d-day, but has recently taken full responsibility not only for her affair but for not attempting to manage the problems in our marriage in a non-destructive way.

Not all BS were neglectful or abusive before the affair.

It would seem from these posts that you still have some resentment towards your BH. Does this inhibit your recovery ?