Thanks Stillhere - I am being greedy right now - I feel I need lots of support.....!!!

I DID get out tonight, which was good. I did not have any plans for tonight, as until last night (before I checked the message from H), I was doing okay and did not feel any need to make a plan. I was kind of tired and thought I would just relax with DS2..., but this afternoon I was very down and did not think it would be a good idea for me to be alone in the house with DS2. I have to be a strong happy mom around DS2 (he is sensing WAY too much sadness around me and H's family members). I can't afford screwing up my son's psycology! Look at what is happening to H now (H's therapist said he got psycologically damaged due to how his step mom treated him and due to the fact his step mom was alcoholic, and also possibly H was sexually abused by one of his nannys when he was young). I can't let that happen to DS2.

Anyway, so I called up this family I got to know only a few weeks ago and the husband is a pastor. They have three children and the youngest one is at DS2's age. We went there and had a good time. I could minimize the time spent thinking about H tonight. Tomorrow H would come by to mow the grass and pick up DS2. I will go to my girlfriend's house next door (she is a single mother as well) in the evening. Then on Sunday morning I will go to church.

Still I know things will be tough, but I don't have much choice. I need to get stronger.

Maybe H has never been there for me, even though it appeared he was all over me especially in early years. There was always "something" that made me wonder why he would act in rather strange, irresponsible, and immature ways. I never knew what it was, but think H was always mentally/emotionally unstable and to protect himself (b/c he is so mentally weak), he has learned over years the way to detach himself from everything - the reality. That is why he came across selfish, spacing out, unrealistic, and irresponsible. With several addictions.

This may sound bad, but in a way, if this is going to end, I wish I do not have to share DS2 with H. I think H is not a good role model (if he will not change), and also if I do not have to share DS2 with H, I would be able to enjoy our life better. Sure, I will be sad many times still thinking about H and missing our happy days. But if I cannot get our M back, then I rather completely erase H from my memory. But I can't, as long as I have to let H see DS2 on a regular basis. In the future I would like to remarry to someone who is responsible, honest, fair, mentally strong/stable (and ABSOLUTELY NO ADDICTIONS WHATSOEVER!!!) and mature, and want DS2 to feel that he is his father. I do not want to worry about not being able to plan a family vacation w/o coordinating the visitation schedule with future XH.

I know they say it is better for kids in the divorced family to see the parent who does not live with them, so that they would know they are still loved and cared. But if in the future H ends up being with someone else, and suppose ends up having kids with that person, no matter how to slice it, DS2 would feel betrayed and less important than H's new kids. I would feel that. Then I strongly believe it is better especially b/c DS2 is still young and can forget all of this, that if he gest a new dad and gets attached to him. And we always stay together. DS2 does not have to go visit his biological father who abandon him and chose to have kids with someone else and LIVES with those kids, instead of DS2....

Anyway, this is just my thought and I know it does not matter. The law requires me to give H a visitation right.

It sounds like I am not heading towards D? You know how I flip, right... tonight after spending some time at my friend's, I can feel this way and be relatively positive. Tomorrow morning will be another story. I am sure I would feel sad and depressed again. And if I see H, it would make it worse, I know.

Stillhere you asked me about Plan A... I am not really sure if that really matters now. You read those responses to my old thread, right? Everyone was suggesting that I file for divorce and move on... I am avoiding LBs, that is about the only Plan A I am following, I guess. Also I am trying to be cheerful when I speak to him on the phone. I am not calling him unless it is necessary. I am trying to let him see DS2 more often and talk to him more often. I did give him his birthday present. I did invite him to DS2's birthday party next week.

But I am not really doing any other things that may deposit units in his love bank. I don't think he has one for me anymore so I can't deposit anything if there is no account.

I just have to learn how to REMAIN strong and to not run away from the reality. I never thought I would divorce, but that does not mean I won't get one unfortunately. That is the reality. I can't win this uphill battle. H does not have even the slightest expectation that we actually COULD BE very happy together. If he does, then there is hope. H has none. H decided I have been the source of all the unhappiness and sadness he has felt for years. H needs to get rid of me in order to truly get healthy and happy. If one believes in that, how can you prove otherwise?

I am sad. DS2 is always sad when he talks about his dad or when he sees other kids being with their daddys. We will always be sad when we think about H. Of course. But I am praying very hard that I can get stronger to go through this. If we have to divorce, it is better that it happens now rather than later when DS2 is much older and understand a lot more things. I am trying very hard to try to find the brighter side (there isn't much though, I must be honest..).

Okay, I did not mean to talk about my emotions... I decided I NEED to get STRONG!!!!!!!

Please people, stand by me... I am sure I will go through a lot of tough time now that legal procedure will begin... I need you! And thank you for your support!

I am not nervous about this now, since somehow I am quite calm (maybe it's simply b/c I am very tired..., it's 1:18AM now), but IN CASE I get nervous tomorrow morning before H shows up - is there any wise advice as to how I should behave, what I should expect or not expect, what I should say, what I should wear, etc...??

Be positive, strong, cheerful, no relationship talk, etc., right? Anything else? If he brings up the mediator subject, I will tell him I am not paying for it. Otherwise I will not bring it up. Oh, I asked him to pay half of our cell phone bill (since he uses it too) but he did not pay for it. I want to bring that up. Should I? How? Shoud I even try to deposit any love units, if possible? Although I have absolutely NO IDEA if that is even possible and if so how. Again, right now I am very tired that I don't even want to bother thinking about how to please H.... I hope I can be this calm and strong tomorrow morning...

as of now i am still doing o.k. although i am a bit sad (last night i was not even feeling sad!).

Milkshake,
I know it is hard, but you have to stop over analyzing. Why do you want to analyze what to wear? Wear what makes you feel good. It is about you right now. If any divorce/mediation talk is brought up refuse to discuss it. Just say you don't want to discuss it today. Lets agree on a time and place. You may not want to discuss is at home either.

What is the rush now? You take time to enter into the M, you should take time to leave as well. If he sais "you are taking too long". Don't argue. Yes, I am taking long, I want to make sure I (emphisize the I) do the right thing. You need to feel good about what you are doing Milkshake, you cannot rush this. Right now the state of mind you are in, you just might agree to something just to be nice (so he does not get mad) in the hopes that it will bring him back, but you might just hurt yourself and your DS!

Take advice from here. Don't do anything now. As long as you don't hire anyone, you are not paying any cash out to take your time. WHat is the harm to take a few weeks to think things through? If he is persistant, just turn the tables and say, I don't like you pressuring me, I need time and space to make my decision.

Take care, I'll be around this weekend, so I'll check in.

Go to a movie, now is the perfect time to check out something you wanted to see but could not because of your DS.

Daisy

i still think this is the best option for you.

i do not think, in your heart, you are ready to give up the fight and just get a divorce...

are you?

why rush it if you are not ready just in case things change?

and yes...you should still be doing plan A

don't give up!!!

Thank you Daisy. You are right, I have developed this pretty sad habit of over analyzing everything about H. I am obsessing, which is SO not me to those who remember how I had always been before all of this.

That's right, if I do not feel comfortable, I do not need to discuss anything right now right here - H can't always assume things will get done according to his feelings and time table.

I started to plan DS's birthday party next week. This is ME. I have always been the one who organized these things. I haven't had any energy over the past 9 months to do anything but I am going to make my son's birthday party very fun and memorable. This would give me something to do this weekend (ordering his birthday cake, order pizza, etc.) too.

I also brought my laptop from work - I have been so behind so maybe I will put in some time to catch up.

milk-i think we just crossposted!

Hey Eav, good to hear from you again. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> It's funny b/c I just poasted on your thread too!

I am not "giving up" per se, I think the limited hope is still there <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />, but not that eager to fight so hard either at this point (which of course can change every second though! LOL). Even if this ends, I feel pretty good about my attempts - I might have not done a good job b/c I was all over the map emotionally and did not have any concrete plan and did not stick to it till recently. But the fact remains that I fought HARD. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" /> I let H know how much I care about him and us. Even though that might have been the wrong thing to do strategically speaking, I feel it really does not matter now. I tried. I wanted this to work. H kept refusing. H decided being selfish is a beatiful thing, so there isn't much I can do.

Oh, H just called - he will be here in 20 minutes. I will log back in later.

H is here mowing the grass outside now. It still hurts to see him acting as if we have never been married before. Is this really the same guy who cuddled with me in the past?

I know this is bad but can't help myself praying that H would suffer from his decision in the future. Otherwise where is the justice?

so milk....

legal separation, divorce or undecided?

At this point, I am leaning towards divorce. I just do not see the point of doing the separation. I thought of these scenarios:

(1) If H meets someone he becomes crazy about, then he would want to divorce and remarry, anyway.

(2) If he meets someone but does not want to marry her yet, then whether he is legally separated or divorced, he would not marry her anyway but at the same time that would not help our M anyway

(3) If H does not meet anyone in the near future, then whether we are divorced or not, we will not remarry to anyone in the near future - H may come back or he may not.

So maybe it does not make any difference. In H's mind, we are already emotionally divorced, and he does not have any remorse about anything he has done or he is about to do. I don't think filing for divorce or separation would change that, unfortunately.

But to be honest, I have not made up my mind yet. I will think it over and start working on the spreadsheet to show my lawyer what my expenses have been vs., H's.

By the way, while H was here, I was speaking to his brother on the phone. Then he said he had to get ready b/c he was leaving home so would call me back from his cell phone.

When he called back, H happened to be right there (H finished mowing and came inside to take shower). DS2 answered the phone and H probably overheard the man's voice but could not tell it was his own brother. I grabed the phone from DS2 and told my brother-in-law that I would call him back. We were obviously talking about H and I did not talk about him in front of H and DS2.

Then just by coincidence, my cell phone rang. It was from my friend but I though it was from my BIL again (as I did not call him back right away and he did not know the reason I could not speak to him there was b/c H was there), so ran towards the phone. I did not want H to see the number displayed on the screen - he might think we are (AGAIN!!) trying to come up with a plan to drag H back to our M. When I grabbed it, the ring stopped.

H asked me "so you met someone huh?"

I really should have said (like osxgirl suggested!!!) "huh? I have met many people" or something, but I am the kind of girl who is just not good at lying!!!

I said "no". But then quickly said "well I have met a lot of people". H said "yeah, a lot of guys"

I did not say anything, as H did not really require my answer either.

But you know the impression I got? H does not care. Well actually, he is relieved. Because now he does not have to feel too bad about his actions, and also does not have to feel responsible for my future (even though he was not feeling that anyway...). And UNFORTUNATELY, I know I am right. I have a pretty good sixth sense...

Still, I thought it was interesting that H asked whether I have met someone - who cares?? H wanted this way. H moved out.

Interestingly, after my girlfriend's husband left her for a younger girl, her XH also came home several times to get his stuff and got mad at her apparently saying "you must have slept with so and so" "you have removed your ring", etc, while he was sleeping with his then-girlfriend and has removed his ring. How selfish men can be (sorry, women too, I admit, I have read about so many selfish women on this board...!)?? I honestly think in her case there was hope. She could have saved her marriage if she wanted, but she never tried. She got mad and did not want him back. Although her husband cheated first, so she should not be the one to be blamed for not trying to save her marriage.

i'm curious what will happen now that he thinks maybe you've met someone...maybe things in his mind will change

I went to see my girlfriend and was secretly HOPING that H would have called. Often he would call anyway just to let me know how DS2 is doing, and because H thought I was receiving phone calls from "someone", I was hoping that he would check on me. Naaaaah. I was also hoping that H would call me on the cell. Didn't happen.

I was feeling pretty sad on my way home (also b/c I was playing George Winston - my friend gave it to me a while back - BAD CHOICE!!!), but tried to fight the negative emotions. I did pretty well actually.

I think H is making a big mistake. I am far from perfection, but am a pretty good catch <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> I need to learn to control my anger, but still, had H been more reasonable and hard working, I really do not think I was THAT mad at him all the time. We could clearly work on our issues to improve our marriage. And I am the mother of his dear child. But he does not see that way. He believes his happiness lies ahead without me in the picture. H has changed. I can keep crying but nothing will change.

So I kept telling myself that while I was driving. Also I kept praying "please God, fix H and bring the old H back" "please ease H's hardened heart" "please make me strong to go through this".

I was able to prevent panic attack and calm myself down. And I remembered what one of the divorce recovery support group members said to me "Milkshake, you love H based on your hope". That is true. H is right now broken. He became so cold and self centered. He has no shame. So I still love and miss him but when I say that I am thinking of old H. So I love him based on the hope he would get back to what he was before. What if he won't change? When I thought about it, I was able to calm down a bit.

Life is a lot tougher than I imagined, unfortunately, but I really hope I am gaining someting from this aweful experience.

Eav, I know it has been hard for you and you are still going through a very difficult time. We will get through this no matter what happens, okay? We are going to fight this together! Our husbands are idiot!!! No women will ever fight for them as hard as we have!!! And they do not appreciate it. They just do not know.

My friend called and left me a message last night -

he said "I was thinking about you and you and H, and life in general - you should tell H 'you are about to lose the best thing happened in your life and you are going to be sorry for that rest of your life so get your a$$ back here', I could be wrong, but I think you should tell him that ".

I broke down and started to cry. How I wish H thought that way!!! I am getting stronger in many ways, but still inside I am crying "please don't lose me, please don't think you will be okay without me!!!".

milkshake,

It is only natural to feel the pain and still have hope. It is painful what we are going through but hold on to that stength. Don't call and say what your friend suggests. You and I both know he will not listen. If it was that easy he would have been back! He is not thinking that way. He might yet, but you cannot wait for that to happen because it just might happen years down the line. You don't want to be hurting that long.

Try to take it easy. Don't think badly of yourself for crying and having still some hope. You are willing to work on your M, you cannot be the bad guy!!

Daisy

milk

thanks for the kind words...i'm feeling so scared today. scared that i really am going to lose him forever.

i hope that you are still going to consider a legal separation instead of a divorce...it hasn't been that long and you haven't even looked into the possibility that there is another woman in the picture. there are still things you can do.

that's my opinion anyway..what do others here think?

I came back from church. The lady and her husband I mentioned did not go into details, but basically her FWH had been very detached and disconnected to his family. The wife did everything with the kids - they would go to church and shopping together, and when kids had any problems they turned to their mother. In the mean time, the husband was feeling very alone and disconnected. After a while he could not take it anymore and said to his wife he wanted a divorce. The wife found out FWH had been involved in numerous affairs. Then the husband would come back, she accepted him back, then he would leave again, comes back, she takes him back...on and on. The daughter (now in college) said she was disappointed in her mother b/c if she was in her shoe, she would never take that kind of person back in her life. Then her husband met God (no details were given here, but I know the wife by then had already started the divorce process), and felt awful - finally he felt guilty.

The kids said before their father changed, he was never there - maybe physically there, but it was like a shadow, b/c he was so disconnected and detached. Now the new "changed" father calls both kids every single day just to tell them he loves them. It really sounded like he has changed completely.

I cried listening to their story. I was there with two other ladies from the divorce recovery group, and they understood my pain and comforted me. I was embarrased that I was crying like a baby, but could not stop. I wish I could be on the stage with H talking about our "success" story!

The pastor talked about broken promises and hurt - he mentioned someone with addictions as well, and for that he said the individual has to get help for the addictions otherwise the relationship will not survive. Also he said if a spouse is having an affair, the statistics says as long as the WS is in contact with the lover, he/she will almost always return to the lover, so WS MUST end all the contacts with the person. That is exactly what MB principle says!

In my case, whether H is with someone else or not, as long as he has addictions, probably it works just as if he is always in contact with his "lover". So unless he makes a serious effort to END the contact, our marriage will not work out EVEN IF H comes back. This is a very hard fact to swallow.

The pastor also quoted another stats: 35-40% of husbands are or have been unfaithful and 20-25% of wives have cheated on their spouses. I wish men on this earth had far less testosterone. Sex with someone else can NEVER be that good if you have to lose your family and beautiful memories and history! Why would they trade in such wonderful things for just sex?? H always stared at attractive women on the street (guess that's his addiction) and I always wondered "Why stare? Does he think something may happen between him and her? She is not going to fall in love with him today or tomorrow or never! She is a complete stranger!". I even asked him several times "do you think something would happen to you by staring at her?". H always said what? I was not staring., or, she reminded of my mother (who passed away) that is all.

Daisy, thank you for the kind words. I know I would not tell H what my friend said. His father has said that to him, his brother has said that to him several times, and I have tried to say that to him as well. None worked. No one can reason him. And thanks Eav, I know you believe in fighting all the way. If H still shows even a fraction of what H used to be, then I may be encouraged to fight - but he seems like a stranger to me now. He acts very differently and his eyes are not the same anymore.

Missing my son and family activities we used to do.... It's a beautiful day outside.

I really thought I was getting better, stronger, and getting ready to move on, but it was only b/c I was trying to keep myself busy! When I don't have DS2 around, I have 20 times more time to think about a lot of things, which only depresses me. I have been to church, shopping, preparing for the next week party, doing laundry, etc., today, but still I feel extremely empty. Even if I vanish now, no one would notice. H would be thrilled, b/c then he gets to keep DS2 to himself, he does not have to feel guilty and will get the house and everything. Because I do not want to make it easy for H, and of course b/c I want to spend many more years with DS2, I won't do anything stupid, but the thought really depresses me.

I can't imagine how H has managed to be alone for the past four months. He really became strong. He does not need me anymore.

How can I move on? What does it take for me to REALLY move on and be able to feel I will be happy without H? There is no shortcut, I know that, but it's been 9 months since I learned H does not love me anymore. Why is it so hard? What if I would never truly move on and the only thing I can do is to "pretend"?? What if it takes me next 5 years?

Milkshake,
Sounds like you are having a hard day. I am sorry. I don't know how much comfort I can give you. It is amazing how one day you can feel good and the next it is as if it all just happened all over again. I am feeling down today myself. Where did the strength I had yesterday go?

I have had the same thoughts you have. I am sad to say that if I died today I may lie here dead for days. My family does not call me, H doesn't call, and I don't start teaching till the 8th. It is quite depressing. Best not to think about it. I get depressed as I live in a neighborhood where there are all young couples with kids. I am alone. H lives with roommates, has single friends, is enjoying single life, and why not, he sees all his friends have fun!

I don't know how long the pain will last. My friends says in a year I'll be better if I start to move on now. I don't know.
Hugs.


Daisy