Oh, my question is, of course, based on the assumption that H is absolutely not interested in saving our marriage and may try to get more (financially and custody wise). If that is not the case, and if H would be as sweet as he used to be, then of course divorce is the last thing I want...

Milkshake,
Reading your posts it does not sound like you are ready to start the divorce process. You might want to wait till you are ready. Of course if he starts it you have no choice but to be ready and then you do want to obtain as much information as you can. I would suggest if your H does nothing, don't do anything either until you are ready to. But do not assume that he wants the M because he is not filing for a D today!

You have to be ready to take that step. To me that means that you have to reach a point where you know that when you start filing you will not regret it. Take your time...

Daisy

I am depressed. My girlfriend, who has been divorced for almost a year, is single, so can do whatever she wants to do, that is true. But she sleeps with a guy who is helping her out financially and emotionally but has no intention of staying with him and is dating other guys. Once she gets a "permanent" guy she can remarry to, she is planning of getting rid of this temporary boyfriend. It's none of my business but it is sad to see this. And I really like her, and it is not my intention to judge her in any way. But it just depresses me.

Then my friend (guy, married) noticed something about her (they have met twice or three times at my place), and wanted to know the juicy gossip about her and these guys. The fact these stories interest him, he does not think that is wrong.

I admit, I used to share these stories with him before I had problems in my marriage. But at the same time, I was never a believer of infidelity or casual sex, and sometimes when I was in a bad mood, these stories annoyed me so much that I picked a fight with him often.

Maybe because now I am "always in a bad mood"..., these kind of stories bother me so much and depress me so much.

Maybe I can never meet a person who truly belives in commitment. And I always thought my husband is one of those few who still belives in pureness. I have no hope. People who do whatever they want DO prosper in life. There is no justice.

bump...

I understand how you feel. You don't want to be single. But if/when you are you don't have to be the way your friend is. Hopefully you will take time to look at what has happened in your M. Do some reflecting. It takes time, but hopefully you will be able to learn from this situation to be better prepaired for an other R. You are not alone in wanting commitment. I always get hope from some of the other stories on MB where people used this site to fix their M, ended up getting D, and now are in other relationships, some even have gotten M. It gives me hope. Life continues...

We are just not ready to face that yet. We are still hurting. So it is easy to see the single life as depressing. We don't understand why our Hs want it, why they find it so appealing. My H is all about that now. We hardly talk but he did call me yesterday. Then he had to end the conversation quickly because he was calling me from a pub. It was 2:30 in the afternoon!! I just shook my head. Is this what he wants. Let him have it then. I will face single life when I am ready. Go slowly...

It sounds like you are having a tough day. Hang in there...
Daisy

Thanks for understanding and sharing your thoughts Daisy.

People can be physically so strong that they can flip on the ice, dance on a beam, eat 30 pieces of cake in minutes, and even fly to the moon, yet why are we this weak emotionally? It's only my husband, another imperfect human being who claims does not love me anymore. Why does this bother me so much? Ughhhhhhhh.

Actually, other animals are also emotional. I remember now. My first dog (male) was in love with our neighbor's dog. They ended up having puppies, but we did not know. The neighour did not know either - they thought some male dog just came inside their yard and got their dog pregnant.

Shortly after the puppies were born, our neighbor had to move. My dog stopped eating. He got very sick. And he died probably a month or two after his "wife" left. Our vet said probably something traumatic must have happened, such as our dog's "lover" has died or something...., that is when we were like "!!!". Later we learned that those puppies were indeed our dog's babies.

Now I know what my dog must have gone through - I cannot starve to death like he did, as I have my own baby to look after, but if the separation can kill even dogs, then of course that affects us.... Except wolves mate for life but human beings do not....

Milkshake,
You still love your H that is why it bothers you to hear he does not love you anymore. Now you hurt because in some sense you are trying to stop the feelings you have. I myself feel like not only do I have to stop thinking about the past, stop thinking about him in my life now, and stop thinking about him in my life in the future, but also I have to stop the feelings I have. All 4 are hard, and now we have to do it all at once. My H wants to be friends alone. How naive is that? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> I get so angry when I think of it. How do you go from Married to friends? I'd like to know. I don't know what will happen...

It is hard what we are going through, so we must take it one day at a time (or one hour at a time on some day).

Daisy

Yeah, it's never easy to "move on" right??

Although I have to admit when I saw H on Sunday and also when I was going through some of the pix from the party this morning - H looked much older and tired. That is not how I remember him. I was like "what happened to my cute guy?" It it the reflection of state of my mind? Not sure. H did loose a lot of weight b/c he has been working out so maybe that is why.

Like your husband, he wants to be single and free so that he can date other girls without sense of guilt. H can put this much energy to work out for SOMEONE HE DOES NOT EVEN KNOW (unless he has met someone already), while he could not work out on a consistent basis for me, his wife of 12 years and partner of 15 years and the mother of his son!!!

Why is sex so important to men? I just don't get it.

Milkshake,
From what I understand your H has SA, so an addiction is really difficult to deal with. I really don't know much about SA.

Sex is important to all of us. It is important to me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> But it would not cause me to leave the M. My H has depression so as time went on I got rejected more and more and sex was more important for me then him...

As time passes you will see your H for who he is.. I find that I am able to see the problems we had more and more now. At first you are just in pain so seeing anything but that is impossible. But now as time passes by, as you start getting used to cooking alone, watching TV alone, sleeping alone you start to move on (without even realizing it sometimes) and you begin to see the person the way they really are... good or bad...

We experience many emotions now, but I can already see that I am more accepting things than before. In some sense during the first 3 months he was like a drug to me!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> I needed him!!! But now, I "need" him less and less. I am able to make it through the nights and days of not talking to him. Yes, I cry and not function sometimes but it is less and less. I am moving on. Some days are very difficult, sometimes I don't think I can make it through the next hour, but I know I don't want to go back to feeling used by H the way I was in the first 3 months...

All it takes is time, its just that time takes its time... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Daisy

Daisy

Daisy, you are very strong and have a grip on your mind. My mind is all over at times. You are right, sometimes I am okay without thinking much about H. I can feel stronger sometimes and feel I will be okay with or without him.

But small things can also easily upset me and make me miss my husband. It's weird. And even though yes sex is also important to me to a certain degree and I miss our intimate time together, when I feel emotional, I never actually think of our time in bed. I only think of us going out to a restaurant, mall, hiking, picnic, movies, beach, etc. I wonder if men remember more of intimate times...

Yes, time may be the only thing that can heal our wound...

I think my guess was right - tonight H called and his first word to DS3 was "hi DS3, do you know who this is?" and DS3 said "daddy". Then H asked further "is XXX (my friend's name - he is like a God father to DS3 and spent a great amount of time with DS3 at the party) your daddy or is your Papa your daddy?"

What kind of question is this? Of course DS3 said "Papa" (thank God! The right answer!).

This confirms that H has a problem or fear that someone else will replace him as a father...

Milkshake,
I would imagine he still wants to be a presence in your sons life. This is a good thing, your son does need his father.

Daisy

MS,

IMHO...I believe that men do remember the intimate times as well. I have moments where I miss my wife terribly as well and the things I remember are the cuddling on the couch, her holding me as we sleep, me watching her sleep and how beautiful she is. SF is a top EN for me and I do think abut those times as well but I think more about what we are really missing and that is the caring and love that we shared in those intimate moments, dancing, cuddling etc...Unfortunately my WW doesn't seem to miss that at all right now. Hope that helps...

R.

Thank you Daisy and Seekingchange.

I am travelling for work and was alone last night in the hotel. I felt so alone and empty. When we were together, I could always call home to chat with H and DS3. DS3 is staying with his grandparents and when I called, DS3 started to cry saying "Mama, I want to go home with you. Mama, hold me...". It broke my heart. When he used to stay home with H alone while I was travelling, he never cried. DS3 felt comfortable and knew that I would come home. Now that his father is gone and now his mom is not around, he acts completely different. This really concerns me...

I only wish H even tried to imagine what a great life we could have together! I am not perfect but can be a loving wife he has always wanted.

When H called on Tuesday night, he stayed on the phone a lot longer than usual. Usually he would have a short conversation with DS3, and then hung up. This time (maybe because he is afraid DS3 is forgetting about his father?) even though DS3 stopped talking to him, H kept talking. H was playing a computer game, but still remained on the phone. H could have this at home! If H comes home, he could always see DS3....

HI Milk,

Only you can decide on when to D, but I'd certainly keep the lawyer working on getting a tempory child support agreement drawn up ASAP and some sort of legal seperation, so that you're not liable for his newly incured debts. You've been living for 5 or so months without support from him? That's wrong, no matter how this works out.

This is odder than a 'typical' A. Your H has seriously deeper problems as opposed to being 'a little lost'. If 'I' didnt see any signs of him seeking help in restoring his life and marriage, 'I' would proceed with the D. I would not be waste any time getting a new life going. I'd start new activities, hobbies, find new places to take DS, redecorate, and 'get going' again.

I know how lonely you must have felt in that hotel room last night. I hate that, too. That's why it would be important to me to get a new life going quickly, so I'd of had a freind to call, or something else occupying my mind, you know? The sooner you start, the sooner you'll have a full life again. And I'm not talking about dating at all, just friends, family, and hobbies. I wouldnt even think about dating for a year or so, if then.

I hope you had a safe trip back. Please take care - Dru

Thanks Dru. While I was gone, something bad happened.

I dropped DS3 off at his grandparents' yesterday and went to pick him up today. I did not ask H to look after DS3, b/c (1) it is easier for me to drop off DS3 at his grandparents and to pick him up there (their house is on my way to the airport), (2) I wanted DS3 to spend time with his grandparents before they are taking off to Europe for two months, and yes, (3) I do not want to give H everything he wants (he already sees H on a regular basis while he has the freedom to go out all the time and not take care of his son everyday. Also he is not even paying the amount he should be paying).

H called his parents' house last night to talk to his sister. In the background he heard DS3's voice. He asked why DS3 is there, and his sister said b/c I am travelling for work. Then H got so mad and yelled at his father "MILK will be in a big trouble in court because she did not ask me first to take care of our son!".

My lawyer told me that at this point, since nothing has been filed officially, I have no obligation to let H see our son. But I do let him see DS3 on a regular basis, b/c I know DS3 misses his father.

I know I do not have to ask H first to see if he can take care of our son before asking his own grandparents. Besides, that is all about the custody, right? If I get the full custody (which all 10 different lawyers told me I should not have any problems, as H has left his son 4 months ago and I have been taking care of DS3), I can choose whoever I want to babysit DS3 when I can, as long as H gets to spend time with DS3 on a regular basis according to the visitation schedule.

I think H is now very insecure that his own son may favor other man (since H witnessed at DS3's birthday party he was following my friend more than his own father), which upset him quite a bit. And of course that is my fault again.

If he hates me this much, it really does not seem there is anything I can do to even make him remember our good old days! H completely rewrote our history and now I am such an evil.

Dru, H has been paying something for the past five months. It is just not enough. H basically pays a little less than 20% of his net income each month, but has not made any contribution towards our house nor DS3's daycare. In Illinois, this 20% net income does not include childcare costs, so typically the parent who is not the primary caretaker has to pay something more in addition to this 20% net income. So while H has been paying, (1) it is less than 20%, and (2) there is no other maintenance payment.

I know the situation is bad. H is mad about everything. H is mad at me b/c he has to live in a crummy apartment and does not have any luxury he once had. He is mad at me b/c he has to pay child support. He is mad b/c he does not get to see his son whenever he wants to see him. And he is mad at me, b/c he probably thinks I have turned everyone including his own family against him. I didn't, but that is how he views it. So probably he was mad last night also b/c he felt he was betrayed by his own parents in a sense that they did not tell H they have DS3. Apparently his dad told him "it is something you and MILK have to work out, but after all, I am DS3's grandfather".

I can't believe H blames me for everything! If he really wants to spend time with DS3, he just needs to act like a responsible father who comes home to us every night!

I am scared as to what H might do next.... legally speaking though, there is nothing he can do against me, right?

I am really scared - what should I do?

I have a question what are you scared of? Your husband is gone, he barely gives you enough money to support your child, he wants a divorce, he barely speaks to you.

All those things that I knew you feared of happining with your husband have already come to passed and you made it.

What fears are you having now? Your lawyers have told you that you will have nothing to fear in your custody case, do you fear that he will be mad? Honey he is mad and angry and more than likely you will be baring the brunt of all his anger for months or yrs to come, and you faced that, try to take each day in stride, everytime you hit a rough spot think of you child and think of some activites that you will want to plan with him.

A small picnic at the park, pitching a tent in the living room for a camp out even kiddie paints at the ktichen table.
Make plans with him a bond that he will remember for the rest of his life.

Hi Milk,

See, you're wrong here - nothing 'bad' happened. He was mad and blaming before, he's mad and blaming now, he'll be mad and blaming tomorrow. Nothing has changed. He's miserable. He says he was miserable with you, now he's miserable without you, and he'll be miserable with someone else later, I'm sure. He's a black hole of misery, and you must put up your force-shields immediately, full strength! Deflect - dont absorb his misery!!!!

He bailed out of your life. You are proceeding with your life (going to work and arranging child care). He he wanted more of a say, he would have worked out his marriage. There's not a thing in the world wrong with you arrainging for his grandparents to care for him while you were on a trip. Your H works, I assume, how would he have cared for him 24/7? Is he even set up for a small child at the new digs? I'd bet not. Dont give this another thought, or I'm gonna whack you with the MB 2x... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

See, this is what a good Plan B is about. You leave the WS out ALONE, totally isolated. Then it's harder to blame everything on you because you're totally out of the picture. The smarter ones realize that they're causing their own misery and eventually decide to get their act together. The more adolecent ones will continue to blame their problems on anyone in range. And you NEVER want the more adolecent ones back, anyway, so B's good, eitherway. Really shows you the character of the WS you're dealing with. You dont want a low quality character back.



Looks like it's time to file, officially, dont you think? He's not resonable, and he's getting worse, not better. Expect this to escalate, I'd go ahead and file. If you're thinking 'I'm scared what he'll do next', then it's time. No one should live their life afraid like that.

It also sounds like you heard this 2nd hand, via your inlaws? I'd ask them not to pass on these types of messages. I'd insist.

Remember, he has huge problems and HE left the family. When he's blaming YOU for everything, you have to understand he's working from a very primitive, adolecent part of the brain. And you need to protect yourself from someone who's not operating from their mature, adult brain. I mean the words he's using, he sounds like a 15yo girl with PMS. When you see this - DEFLECT. You dont even need to listen to these rants (either direct from him OR the inlaws!).

He's in a full rage now, time to tuff-up! You're not going to reach him in this state, and it's his choice if he ever decides to take a good look at himself. Please be careful - Dru

Thanks Swan's song and Dru. I could use all the encouragement right now.

You are right, in a way, nothing has really changed, as H has been mad at me for everything for a long time now. But I was scared to hear the word "court" coming out of his mouth. Someone said to me that H was referring to "right of first refusal". If that is in the agreement (which of course is not the case for us, as we do not have any agreement), I have to ask H first to watch the kid. The fact H knows about this scares me. Is he studying laws now to come up with a beautiful divorce plan where he will get everything he wants?

I was (and am still a bit) scared, also because this is so out of his ORIGINAL character. H was the last person to threat anyone. H was the last person to be confrontational.

I really have lost him, haven't I? I have lost my husband and also my best friend.

My mother-in-law told me about the incident just to warn me. She said she does not feel a bit sorry for her son. H's dad is probably more sympathetic, and apparently told H that he would ask me next time if I ever ask them to watch DS3 whether I have already asked H or not. MIL told FIL "no, I won't do that. DS3 is our grandchild". So MIL and FIL are not on the same page here.

I spoke to H's sister last night about this, and initially she said "but MILK, he IS the father and you should ask him to watch DS3 first". So I told her "but he is the one who decided to leave his family, and also is not doing things he is required to do for us. He only wants DS3 whenever he is feeling lonely. Besides, this is what divorce is all about - H will not be able to spend whole a lot of time with DS3, because he chose this way". In the end SIL agreed and said "you are right, you should tell H what you just told me!" And when I told her about how H has not called DS3's therapist even though he said he would four weeks ago, she got mad "that is bull s***, I am going to tell him he should call DS3's therapist!". I called her back later and asked her to not do that. I think that would only make things worse. Besides, I do not want to FORCE H to call DS3's therapist - I want him to call because he is genuinely worried about DS3's mental well-being. SIL understood it and said she would not tell him to call the therapist.

I know I should not be believing everything H has been saying to me. Yet, it hurts tremendously - actually not so much of what he says to me, but the fact he now truly believes I am some kind of a monster or something. I am trying to prove that I am not an evil person he is trying to believe, but it seems any small things can trigger him now and he would be just so mad at me.

People have told me no, H is mad at himself and at everything that has happened to him and since he cannot love himself he cannot love you. What would it take, IF there is any, for H to really realize that I did not cause all the misery in his life and I love him? That I have tried to hang on this long simply b/c I hoped H would change his mind and come back to me, instead of I was trying to hurt him or anything? How can he hate me so much?

Right after H moved out, I gave him love letters. H was annoyed by them and said "another letter again?". When I was trying to hug him, he was annoyed and said "I am here just to cut the grass, if you need to talk about us, we should set the time but now I am here to mow the grass so stop it". Then the following week or so when I asked if I could see him in person he said no. When he was inside the house, we were talking a bit, and there was a black fly and I tried to get the bug. H was annoyed again and said "it's just the bug, we are talking". When I wanted to talk more, H said "if you continue to talk about us getting back together, you will hear only from my lawyer". When I did not answer the phone, he said "try to have the phone around when I call so that you won't miss it and I can speak to DS3", again, he was mad. H asked me when he moved out that I should call him anytime I need his help - when I got a flat tire, I called him for help and he was annoyed and refused to help me initially.

I am not perfect and have made a lot of mistakes. But I am trying so hard to listen to what H is saying but seem to manage to screw up everything! Whenever I asked H to give me more money to help out, he got so defensive and mad, and always brought up the "lawyer" word to threaten me.

I do not know this guy. H used to be a puppy. He was so sweet and generous and shy. H called me the flower of his life. I was full of confidence. Now he thinks he has made the biggest mistake in the world to marry me 12 years ago. I am a monster. I have always made his life miserable and will continue to do so therefore he must get away from me. I can't take this pain. I want to go somewhere with DS3 where I do not have to see H never ever again! It's just too painful to keep seeing the reminder.... But I can't even do that because of DS3!

I know everyone who has been through the same situation eventually became strong and independent and things turned out okay. I know time will ease my pain. But I cannot picture myself being so carelessly happy ever again. I will always have this baggage (I don't mean DS3, he is the most wonderful thing ever happened to me - I mean the baggage of my failed marriage, broken family, the pain, etc.) from now on. I can't imagine I will ever be truly happy again without any regret.