I asked H if he wanted to come to our house for dinner this evening so that he can spend time with DS3 and can stay untill DS3 falls asleep. H asked me if he could have DS3 tonight that is why I suggested this. I wanted to spend tonight with DS3 as well (after all, I work full time and for me, weekends are the only time I can really spend quality time with DS3).

H said "well I will see what is going on and will get back to you". ??? I laughed a bit and said "it's your schedule, you are making it sound like you do not know what is happening to you tonight". But he said again "I will get back to you".

Is his hesitation due to (1) he was plannning on spending time with OW, (2) he fears that this is my attempt to lure H back, or (3) he wants to make sure he is making RIGHT legal moves in order to prepare himself for the potential upcoming court battle and wants to counsel with his legal adviser or his friends who are familiar with the divorce law?

I would not like (1) or (2), but if it is (1), in a way, I may be able to feel H is the one who is doing the wrong thing and being selfish after all and I do not have to feel bad about myself too much, and I may feel relieved (as strange it may sound). If it is (2), again, I will not be happy but given the circumstances, at this point it may be understandable. But what if it is (3)??? I am terrified. Inviting my own husband to dinner should not be against the law and I do not think his lawyer can use this against me in court, but they can find anything to use against, so I am really scared.

Sunday is our anniversary, and that is another reason I thought having H over for dinner might be good....

Milk,
I don't know about what you should do regarding the anniversary. We had our anniversary about a month after H left. We thought it would be good to go out and have dinner. It turned out to be a disaster...We did not get each other anything...really what were we celebrating??? He is the one who wanted to go out to dinner...but I was still in the "fix the M at all costs" stage while he was in his "I want freedom" stage. Big conflict. So, it as I said the night was a disaster. Now, we would probably have a nice dinner, but I who knows.

Don't take what he says to seriously. I have a hard time with that myself. The other day I asked H to help me with cat litter (the box weighs 50 lb, it was in my car). I made the mistake of asking him over the phone, really I just mensioned that I planned to ask him to do it IF he comes over. His respond was that maybe I should just open the box and scoop some and carry it in and then repeat that until all the litter is in the house. How LAME is that?!!! I could not believe it. I felt like such a fool for even asking. I told myself not to ask him anything anymore. He did end up doing it for me when he was over on Wednesday. It is like they just don't want to COMMIT to anything. I think they continuosly worry, "oh she will think I want to get back together if I come over, or if I do this or that"... It is so frastrating, and really makes me mad. I don't know if that is what your H is thinking, but it could be. The fact is that you don't know and you cannot know... Try not to think about it. My H may not be having an affair, but the stuff that comes out of his mouth sometimes is really bubble!!!


I had misunderstood. I thought perhaps you were the one from Europe. Either way, it is difficult to come over from another country, I completely understand. Making friends, really good friends, on top of that is not that easy. I myself have really 2 good friends and they both live 1000s of miles away...It is hard...THese days I try to make conections with people every day even if it is just people at the coffee shop...I usually am not one to chat, but these days it can feel so lonely, that some short chat with a clerk can make you feel good...

Take care.
Daisy

H called and said he would pass on the dinner invitation. Instead he said he would get together with his SA friends.

I really got the impression that our marriage is over. This is over. I do not want to get old just by wating for him to be like the way he used to be. That might never happen. Maybe I really need to move on.

I spoke to one of H's sisters today. She asked me if any paperwork has been done. When I said no, she asked me why not. H's mom also asked me to just file. They know H well, obviously, and if these words are coming out of their mouths, things must look really bad and hopeless.

I am very scared what would happen in the legal process. Would I get stuck in this country alone with DS3? I hope I would not lose custody. DS3 is the only family I've got here. I am really scared...

Hi Milk,
I can definitely understand how you feel, and am
sorry you are having a rough day.
I am in the same situation of wishing that H would
be like he used to be, and remembering the good times,
but having to deal with someone who is now a totally different person. Whether this is temporary or
permanent, no way to know, so also no way to know
if I am wasting my time with someone who will never
change, or if there's hope he would be a "real"
person again someday.
H was pushing hard for the D paperwork to be done, but
after three weeks, has done nothing with it-

Have you considered going to a PLAN B, where you have
NO contact with H ? I am "sort of" in a PlAN B, and
it does make things less stressful for me, not having
to try to figure out where H is, what he's doing,
whether he's with someone or not, etc.

I can't give you any advise about the legal situation,
but it doesn't seem like having him over or not would
have any bearing on anything. I also don't think there
would be any reason you would lose custody. My H has
a custody arrangement with his daughter from a previous
relationship, and it's the very "standard" agreement-
the mother has "physical custody" (she lives full time
with her mother, which is in a different state than us)
and my H has visitation rights, which is two weekends
a month, two weeks in summer, and alternating holidays.
H is responsible for all expenses related to his
visitation, except that on holidays, which they split.
H pays child support and must have daughter on his
health/dental insurance. Anything not paid by the
insurance is split between each parent on the same
percentage as their child support is (in his case,
because he makes more money than her mother, H pays
60 pct, her mother pays 40pct.).

Try not to worry, will talk to you again Monday.
Slammed

Thank you Slammed. I got a call from H this evening. As expected, H declined my offer and instead decided to get together with his "SA" buddies. Isn't that wonderful? Those guys he met through the SA group counseling are all divorced/separated, and spending time with them all the time has numbed H's sense - now he says divorce is not a big deal. H would have never said that before. H said "everyone divorce these days, it is not a big deal. If a woman does not make you happy, you should be able to divorce".

I really feel that our marriage is over. I do not think my husband, the sweetest person I ever met, would ever return. The person I see now is the coldest person I ever know. How could this happen? I know, I could have been a better wife. I nagged too much. I did not show a lot of affection (I did but it was not enough for H). I am really sorry for what I have done. But I did not know that I have made H so miserable that he has become a person I cannot recognize. H's family cannot recognize him either.

I am sorry you are in the same boat Slammed. I am sure you are just as confused, sad, scared, and hopeless as I am. I am very scared. I know I have to fight the negative feeling and have to believe something good will come, but just can't convince myself.

Thanks for listening. Take care Slammed. I really hope we will be in a better place soon. There is always light at the end of the tunnel, right? I will talk to you on Monday. You are in my prayer.

Hi Milkshake,
I know how you feel about H hanging out with single friends. I am dealing with a similar situation. Almost every time I speak to H he is telling me about the night before the party he went to etc. Thursday he stayed out with his single friends(they are college students) till 3am at this college party on campus where there were over 1000 people there. Then he crashed out on that guys couch for couple of hours and then went home. Is this what he was missing? I teach at that school. When I see my students who are in 18,19,20 mostly, I see my H, who is 29. I thought at 29 a person will start to want more...But now I found out that H quit the MA program and will not start a new one as he planned just in Aug.. So, all he does is work and goes to parties. Lovely. I still cannot believe this is what he wanted? Now, he also stoped taking the depression medication, again it was his idea not his doctors. He did that before. He felt better for a couple of weeks and then felt even worse than when he was on the meds....Anyway, don't mean to steal your thread...
I am just so sad right now... I spoke to him last night and for the first time in weeks I cried after hanging up the phone. It just hurts so much again...

Hope you are doing better today...Today I feel scared too...I guess I just see him and it is like watching an alcoholic do crazy things without being able to do anything...I need to just take care of me...

Take care...
Daisy

{{{{{Daisy}}}}}}

I am so sorry you are having a rough day. You were doing great the past few weeks, maybe b/c you were limiting your exposure to him and did not have to think about your situation too much. I know how much it hurt to see your loved one just having fun and it appears all what he cares about is how much fun he can get.

I feel, however, the fact your husband wants to share his stories with you is a good thing. It is probably not a good thing for you, since that gives you hope and you cannot "move on". But your husband is not completely detached from you. Still, your husband is being so self centered right now and I don't understand what is so "fun" about partying around every week. Believe me, if that is all what he wants, it will get old. There is no way he will want to do this foerever. He wants to be free from responsibilities. My husband is the same way. H is taking ADs as well. When people are depressed, even a tiny thing can be magnified and can stress them out easily.

Hugs,
Milk

Milk,
Thank you. I was really doing better. I was accepting that he no longer wanted me in his life. Now, I still know he does not want me there, his wife. He still wants me there as his friend and possibly lover, but again only WHEN HE WANTS. I hate this so much. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I really do.

Today is a bad day. Our conversation yesterday was hard, he was telling me about him not taking the medication and because I worry about him I got sucked into that conversation and asked way too many questions. He probably did not like that...who knows. I ended up ending the conversation because the vibe I was getting was that he did not really want to talk more... Before we ended it he said he would like to see the movie I had borrowed from the video store, but he was not sure if he was going to be around on Saturday night. I said, if he was around to call me and we could watch it together...So here I am now, like a fool waiting if he calls...I was so beyond this point last week, how did I get back here again...I let him weasel his way into my life and look at what I am doing???!!! I bet he is not thinking about me right now, for all I know he may be out of town (he said he was invited camping for the weekend but did not know if he was going to go).

I hate that I even wonder about all this...what he is doing...if he is with some other woman. I was past this, I did not care, and now I do again...

He spend the night here 2 nights this week. It was nice. We held hands before going to sleep, it was so pleasant...and he gave me a massage on Wednesday morning before I went to work...why did I let him into my life like this again. I really think I am a fool...I hate that I hurt so much again...

Thanks for listening Milk, I'll try to post my thoughts on my own thread, sorry!

{{{{{{{{Milk}}}}}}}}
We all need hugs right now...

Daisy

Hi Daisy, I hope you are doing better. Sorry I did not log on this weekend. How was your weekend?

Hey, it's nice that you guys still hold hands and are going to sleep together. Really, it is nice. Although I can see how frustrating it is for you. Your husband wants it all, and on his terms. Does he go to church? Why does he think he can get away with this? He wants you but without any responsibilities. You know what, Daisy, in your case, if you really start to move on, I think your husband will start to worry that he might lose you. You do not have to be always there waiting for him. Let him get nervous about your whereabout.

Yesterday was our 12th anniversary. I bought a card in case he stops by - I was going to let DS3 give it to H. But he didn't. Initially he said he would stop by to mow the yard, so I was cooking a nice meal. Then he called in the evening and canceled it. I was disappointed but tried not to show it. Thank God I did not tell DS3 that he was coming. Otherwise he would have expected his daddy and would have been pretty upset.

Apparently H showed up at his brother's church yesterday. I wonder what he heard, felt and prayed there. I spoke to his brother this morning and my BIL told me that a while back, H told his brother "Jesus told me to divorce Milk". My goodness!! Was he serious? BIL said H was very serious. So of course BIL said "that cannot be true, God hate divorce", then H told his brother "I don't have to believe what you believe". Interesting, isn't it.

Anyway, my H won't even come to dinner in our place nor call ME (he only calls DS3), so I really think it is over. I think he is not in his right mind, but for now (and it will probably last for next few years) H has absolutely no interest in coming back to us so I have no options.

Hi Milk and Daisy,
Our WH's are certainly alike- they all go "back and
forth" and make us nuts !! I am sorry you both have
had some tough days lately- it is so hard to deal
with affair issues, much less the added complications
of mental/emotional health issues !
My H called me last Friday to see if I was available
to meet for lunch. This was uncommon, even when
we were still together, so I really wondered why he
wanted to get together, but as we were working on
the sale of a vehicle, I assumed it was to finalize
that or discuss issues about our house, etc.
Went to lunch, and it was perfectly pleasant and calm,
but there didn't seem to be any real purpose- H had
not yet done the sale of the car, and didn't say
anything about the house issues.
Got home Fri night after going to dinner and hanging
out with a friend, and H had left a message- for our
dog ! (I had given him a photo of her at lunch and
the call was to thank "her" for it) Again- no real
purpose ??

Felt lonely and down over the weekend- H and I used
to do everything together, so I really miss his
companionship, especially on weekends. I tried to
stay busy- did housework, laundry, errands, cleaned
the garage and my car, and went to a concert, but
hard when it's just so quiet with only me there.

Last night H showed up to pick up his car.
(We had three vehicles- sold the one he had been
driving so came to get the other). I looked out
to see who had dropped him off, but couldn't see.
He was in the house very briefly when his cell
rang, and he disappeared- I thought he'd gone
upstairs then realized he was outside, and had
walked halfway up the street. MAde me wonder if
he was meeting up with whoever dropped him off,
or if he just didn't want me to hear the call ??
Definitely another weird behavior that certainly
makes me sure he has something going on with OP.
When he came back he seemed pre-occupied, kind
of agitated, and in a hurry. Said he needed to
get "home", which made me feel bad since I
consider our house to be HOME, not the hotel
or apartment where I assume he is staying.
I began to wonder last night if he might either
have decided he wanted to keep that car, so just
said he was selling it, or if he kept it to give
to some OP ???

He was in such a rush to do the D paperwork but
hasn't done anything with it, then was in a huge
rush to do the paperwork to sell the car and
waited all last week- very hard to figure out any
logic in what he does/says !!

He recently went off the AD's he'd been on- apparently
"cold turkey", which isn't a great idea. I sure wish
he'd go to a specialist, get a psych evaluation and
find out what is really going on with him. He's been
previously diagnosed with depression and OCD , but
I really think he may be bi-polar, which would be
a whole different type of meds and treatment.
I also wonder if he might be SA.

Will probably hear from him today or tomorrow as he's
supposed to give me my portion of the proceeds from
selling the car. I've given up on trying any
particular "plan", as nothing I've really tried has
seemed to work, but just to keep my own peace, I
find that keeping my cool, not begging/crying/pleading,
and not asking him many questions seems to get the best
results.
If not for having to deal with bills, the house, and
the dog together, it might really be more effective to
have no contact at all- at least it makes me feel like
he'd realize more of what he's losing~ but who knows ?

Have a good day, ladies !
Slammed

Hi Slammed,

Your husband behaviors are very odd. He may have ADD/ADHD as well. By the way, what it OCD?

Whatever our spouses might have, I do not think they should use it as an excuse to do whatever they want to do. I can do the same - well I am having a bad day, I had a rough day at work, I could not get a good seat on the train this morning, etc....., does it make it okay for me to do whatever pleases me on my terms only?

I know, we all know that no one can reason our spouses who are deep into their "fog".

I wish I knew that mental health is one of the most important thing you should look into when you decide who to marry to. H looked perfectly normal back then though! But we were young. I did not know any better...

Milkshake,
Thanks for your kind words. No matter what situation we find ourselves in, it is hard to take. There is a part of me that has hope that since H still wants to talk and did spend the night here, that perhaps we have a chance to make things work. It would probably take a long time...but what if I am just setting myself up...what if I am only prolonging the pain...

I cannot help but to have hope now...yet at the same time, I have my space and have a chance to think of what is important to me in my life...I know for example that if we were to stay together, I would never have children (unless I adopt but that is very expensive). I don't know how to feel about that. I always wanted to have children...I am not sure I can give that up...I mean, I am sure I can live without having children, but do I want to do that...I don't know...

I am sorry your H did not come over this weekend...It sounds like he is trying to avoid you...I am so sorry...why do they have to do that? I get so frastrated myself...IMHO your BIL should not have told you what your husband said regarding God and the divorce. It sounds like your H is just trying to justify his actions with that statement, and I just don't see the purpose in telling you...don't take it seriously. You and I both know that God did not tell him to do anything...Your H is responsable for his own actions...

My H is not a religious man. By that I mean he does not and never has in the past attended church, but he does ponder the religious type of questions...He attended a budhist temple for some time...He is a type of person who gets really excited about something and does it "religiously" but eventually looses all interest...Sadly, as time went on and I noticed this patern with him, I began to wonder when it would be my turn, when he would loose all interest in me...I used to think this way for the past year...How sad...

I really hope you enjoyed the dinner you made, even if he was not there. I spend 2 hours sunday cooking an indian dish I like and had a lot of fun doing it...I cooked while I watched a western...had a good time until I realized that it was getting late and H did not call...He ended up calling me in the evening but I had already gone to bed...I tried calling but did not get a hold of him...I guess I am in a better place then I was before since I can go days without speaking to him now, and don't obsess about calling all the time...

We have to look at the little things to make us happy right now...The big picture looks a bit gloomy...Enjoy. Are you having your son this week? How was your weekend?

Milk, I wish I had looked into this. I was such a fool. I knew of my H's mental problems but I thought if he knew what he was doing that was enough. He hardly tried to include me and have me understand. Now, I would have looked into it more, spoken with his doctor to try to understand how he felt and what the meds were likely to do, etc...
Mental health is something that we just don't discuss enough.

You are right, you cannot reason with a person in a fog. It is impossible. I don't think my H has an A going on, but he is in some sords of 'fog' he has created for himself.

H called me at work just now. Still wants to see the movie. I said I would meet him later after I get off from work. He said ok, that he was going to go take care of stuff and then swing by the house and just hang with the cats till I come home. I thought to myself "No way". I asked him to meet me at a coffee shop downtown (in the opposite direction from my House). I don't want him to hang in my house while I am not there. What is he thinking. He gets to come to my House as he pleases and I was told to "call before you come over". I did not directly say I did not want him there, but I think he got it even over the phone, sounded a bit taken back. I got to draw the lines somewhere.

Am I crazy for letting him back into my life? Some people here go to plan B so that their spouse misses them.. (at least that is part of the plan). I am not dealing with an A so plan B is really not for me, but am I creating a situation where he will not miss me? I don't know anymore...

Enjoy...
Daisy...

Thanks, Milk.
I completely agree with you that our H's "issues"
cannot be excuses for their behaviors-
I have always been very supportive of my H with his
emotional/mental issues, and have always said that
it was not his fault he had them, but IS his fault
if he does not reach out for help and get them
resolved/treated.
H has tried numerous anti-depressants- none of which
have made a big difference. Partly for this reason,
and after lots of reading, research, and talking to
my own IC, I really think H has been mis-diagnosed
so may be on the totally wrong type of meds.
A Dr. did have him try two different medicines for
ADD a couple of years ago, but there was no change
with those either.
He does have OCD (Obsessive-compulsive disorder)
which is almost opposite of ADD- instead of having
a short attention span and trouble sticking to one
thing, H gets "stuck" on one thing and obsesses over
it- can be something like going to the gym every
day, a work project, or maybe even a person.

Milk and Daisy,
It is definitely too bad we didn't know about the mental
health issues earlier. I knew and dated H for almost
3 years before we married, so I sure felt like I knew
him well, and I can honestly say I saw no hints to the
way H is now. I've asked my IC what might have caused
H to change- if it is his age, some kind of external
influence, something I did, etc. and she said it's hard
to know, but that people with mental/emotional issues
are often very good at hiding them, or have learned
to live with them, so can sometimes have them under
"control". In the case of my H, it sort of seems like
he has some "mid life crisis" going on too, which may
be making everything else worse.

Most of the MB advise I got was simply that the MB
principles won't work due to his issues, so I'm not
really sticking directly to the Plan A/B, but am just
trying my best to work on me, do my own thing, make
plans for the worst, but I guess I still do hope for
a change- that H would realize what a mistake he's making,
that he would end the A or whatever it is he's doing,
that he would decide to really get help with his issues.

Daisy- my H is much more "detached" than yours, but
I understand how you feel about how much to let him
"in". I think we do it because we still have hope that
the "real" H will come back. I met my H for lunch and
Friday and was happy to get a message from him that
night (even if no real purpose or substance) just
because I thought it must mean he had some doubt about
what he was doing, or still was thinking of us at least
a little bit, but who knows what it meant to him ?????
He goes from nice, calm, pleasant, and seeming to be
a little interested, to hostile, agitated, and totally
closed off and shut down like the wind blowing !!

Have heard nothing today. In a way, it's a little easier
on me, but as we sold a vehicle over the weekend and are
supposed to split the money, I'd also like to just have
that resolved and get my portion of the money in the bank.

I'm reading "Love Must Be Tough", and it's a bit like
Plan B, or even the 180 degree plan. I have found it
useful in setting some boundaries and realizing I am
looking out for "ME", and not letting H just walk all
over me. I don't know if any of the things I've done
will end up having made any difference, but at least
I can know that I certainly tried.
Slammed

Hi Daisy and Slammed,

H was supposed to call last night between 7 and 8, and he ended up calling at 9:15pm. DS3 was already in bed but got up excitedly to answer the phone. I was annoyed. What is it so difficult for H to maintain a regular schedule to call his own son? H says he misses DS3 all the time and complains he does not get to see him as often as he wants. H was supposed to stop by on Sunday, and I and DS3 were looking forward to that. What happened? H cancelled and did not come over. I though he really wanted to see DS3. It is always like this. As long as H does not have anything to do so he misses having someone around, then he demands that he wants to see DS3, and if I say no, b/c it does not work out, then he gets mad and says I am blocking his way to see his son. Then when I invite him, he declines the offer. Or he just cencel it b/c at the last minute he's got something else to do and no longer needs "someone" to be with him.

It is all based on his schedule and needs. I was pretty upset that last night after DS3 spoke to H breifly I grabbed the phone and just said to H "try to call earlier". H was trying to excuse himself and said "well, I was...." but then realized the firm tone of my voice and just said "okay, sorry".

Ever since we agreed that H would call DS3 on Mondays, Wednesdays, and on weekends between 7 and 8PM, it's been almost two months and he has not called on Mondays three or four times, and instead ended up calling on Tuesdays, and also often he ended up calling much later. Basically he cannot even be consistent. Yet he thinks he is at least being responsible towards his son.

I was almost disgusted by H last night and this morning and was thinking - even though my ultimate hope is for H to come to his senses and come home - I may just want to file for divorce. B/c if H comes back, but still has the mentality that everything was my fault or someone else's fault, and if he believes he is a responsible person, nothing is going to change and work. We will end up repeating the same things over and over. If he agreest to recommitt to our relationship, he really has to change some of his ways of thinking (such as his needs and convenience always have to come first) in order for our M to be happy. Of course I have to learn to be more patient with him and supportive, but I will not let H do whatever he wants just b/c that is what he wants/needs at the moment. That is not right.

And since the chance of this ever happening to H is very slim, I really feel that divorce is probably the only way for me now. I was a bit surprised and also thought it might be a good sign that H went to church on Sunday, but looking back, he was going to church to make a pass on a girl - so who knows what his true motivation is. If he becomes humble in front of God, that is one thing, but I am not holding my breath. Also now that I know H believes "Jesus" has told him to divorce me, I really do not know what kind of crappy idea H may have about God and going to church. The scary thing about this is that I am very sure H believes in this. H really believes he is doing the right thing and he is "taking care of himself".

I am sorry Daisy and Slammed, that we are all in this no-way-out situation. Our spouses definitely have mental issues. I think Daisy's husband is still attached to her, so there is hope. Although he has been extremely selfish and definitely thinks that he can do whatever he wants to do while he expects you to be always there waiting for him.

Slammed, my H has also OCD on certain things. From what I heard, that could be part of ADD/ADHD. Basically you can't really maintain attention on things that do not interest you, but on the other hand if you find something very interesting, you become obsessive and cannot stop. For H, it was porn, internet dating service, chasing women on the street (even though H does not actually talk to them, he is in his fantasy world), or simply playing computer games. He would spend an entire day playing computer games. It is too bad that he never used his OCD for his work or for our relationship or for his own son. It was always something that gave H pleasure - marijuana, porn, games, etc. No responsibility.

We dated for three years before we got married too. I did not see any of these traits in him back then. He was motivated and truly in love with me and I completely trusted him. He did not use drugs, watch porn, or spend hours playing games. He also communicated with me much better.

Soon as we got married, however, he freaked out b/c he felt that he has so much responsibility now, and started to go out with his friends every weekend. That was killing me, since I did not have any family or friends here. And we had only one car while we were living in a suburb, so every weekend I was stuck in our apartment all by myself. That did a lot of damage to our M. I started to mistrust H, and later he apologized for it, but by then he had something else going on (I found a love letter to one of the girls H used to work with).

Maybe I should have known that H is not a trustworthy person. H just cannot handle responsibility. As long as we were just dating, it was okay. But marriage and also having our child were just too much for H. H's sister and brother have similar traits and they get freaked out when they are required to be responsible for something serious. They all tend to run away from the responsibility.

Maybe that is what is common among our spouses. They cannot handle responsibility. Very sad, isn't it?

Slammed, does your husband go to church?

Slammed,

This is the same for me. In some sense I feel like I have no plan and am just fishing in the dark for the right path. After reading your post I went on amazon and bought the book "Love Must Be Tough". It sounds like it could be helpful to my situation...I hope it is. I really am worried that by letting my H into my life when he wants I am setting myself up. We don't discuss our R at all. I don't even know what kind of R we have.

I have to say that H has not really changed too much. In many ways he is the same guy he was before we got married. He did change a bit as we dated, but now I see that that was just him getting excited about something and then quiting and giving up on it pattern. When I met H he did not smoke, drink alkohol or coffee or soda, just drank tea, went on walks all the time, read some. Within a year, he was drinking, smoking a lot (he smoke for a long time and did drugs and all before I met him). He would kind of go on and off with the smoking...so his pattern really is to get into something but then not finishing b/c he gets overwellmed or just looses interest...now he does not read at all...but he still takes the walks...although they do envolve hanging out downtown near the pubs (he says he goes there and has coffee or soup...it sounds like the old H, but who knows)...

I know the mental problems are difficult to deal with...I spoke with a friend and she said "you know Daisy, you really have to think about whether being with someone who is so moody is something that you want in your life. He is not going to change, so you will have to find a way to deal with it and still be happy. Can you do that?" I honestly don't know...

It sounds to me that you have found a way to deal with it and tried to be there and be understanding and your H just did not let you in at times. I wish I had been at least where you were...I am sorry for you situation slammed. How long have you been seperated? It sounds like you are dealing with a similar situation. Our H are still around and do want us to be there but no R talk or else...

Daisy

Milk,
I see what is happening with you...it happened to me. Eventually you get to a point where you start seeing your H's actions for what they are as the pain you feel goes down. Your H's behaviour is selfish!!! It is like my H's. They both want us to be there when they want but don't get your hopes up that they will be there for us. I know our situations a bit different, but our H's have similar behaviours. As the pain lessens you start to see it and get tired of it...I think you are starting to be there...you still want him back but you don't want the same M you had before, you see the changes you need to make as well as the changes H needs to make for it to work...you are tired of being a doormat. You are stating your boundaries...this is good!!! You told your H how you felt regarding calling late and that is a good thing. I think he respected that. He did appoligize. Good for you... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I have to agree with you about the "responsible" part. I feel that as long as we were dating my H did not have to really step up to the plate. If need be he could do his own thing, hang with the guys but he still had me there to fulfill his EN. Once you get married and commit to that type of serious R, it takes some responsibility even if you don't have children as is our case. He just did not want that...and that is the part that I worry about...My H may never change...some people never grow up... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

I just don't even understant why a person would not want to become an adult...be responsible...

My H is driving around town without car insurance...now he is talking about getting a construction job ...yet he has a student visa and can only work on campus...so he hopes the guy will be willing to pay him under the table...I just cannot believe this is who I married...someone willing to do this elegal stuff...I don't even say anything...what can I say...if I said anything I would be a nag...and on some level I am not even his wife anymore...just on paper. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

He came over yesterday and we watched a movie. At one point I tried to hug him but he was all stiff...I soon realized that he was in one of his moods. I am realizing that I have to go very slow with him...we ordered some chinese food and watched the movie (I on the couch he on the floor). Eventually he came to sit on the couch and I put my head on his lap (I was really tired)...I went up to bed eventually and before he left he came and brushed my hair from my face and kissed me...I did not see him off, just asked him if he could lock the door before leaving...Usually I would see him off and hang by the door..I don't want to do that anymore. He seemed to notice...I think it was a good thing.

Anyway,
I have a feeling the more we state or show our bonderies the more our H respect us. The more we don't cry and plead with them the better...In some sense I find it easy to do...Even when H was cold to my hug, I did not feel as rejected as I would have in the past...I thought to myself, that this man left me and said hurtful things to me and now, there really is not much he can do to hurt me more than he already had...It is a sad way to get reassurance, but it is true.

Hang in there milkshake... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Daisy

Hi Milk, Slammed, and Daisy

Boy, you want to see some excited post, look for BS's who let their WS come home before boundaries were established and terms of recovery had been set in stone. It's a huge mistake to accept a WS back TOO SOON. All that heartache and trauma just to get a snotty, unrepentant WS BACK in the house... definitey not worth it.

I'm sorry things are not better with your WS's, but everyone here seems a bit more together <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />. I think at some point we realize we dont need these cruel men, and that they arent worth our tears. It took a while to get used to the idea of leaving my exH (big mental instability problems), but after a while I felt liberated. I'd been living my life walking on eggshells. Despite the financial worries, I STILL felt more secure after he was out of my life, he caused me that much pain.

I hope everyone is having a good day. Please take care! - Dru

Dru

I hear you. We all seem to be getting past the initial pain!! I have to edmit that a part of me is happy without H here because I don't have to walk around on eggshells. It is a nice feeling...and somehow this whole experience has me stronger so that even when he is here in my house I don't walk around on eggshells and I am able to do my own things and be happy...I certainly don't want my M back the way it was...I want a better M...

Daisy

Thanks Dru. I keep getting the impression that when dealing with those who have mental instability problems, which can lead to depression, addictions, serial cheating, etc., it seems there is only one option (unless of course for whatever reason they come to their senses on their own but it seems rare), that is for US to end the relationship. Then the outcome is either those in the fog would wake up, or they don't.

I have read some about midlife crisis, and some say "most of MLCers would come to their senses, but it takes time. On average it takes about 2-5 years". So, suppose if we keep waiting (assuming that our spouses are also affected by MLC) w/o filing for divorce, then our spouses might come back to us eventually, but it will take a very long time, and even then, there is no guarantee.

This really stinks. If your spouse is in affair, it seems at least there might be something you can do, something you can call "plans", but for us, we can either wait or just give up.

I don't like the idea of "giving up", and when I think of it that way, I feel like I just can't do that, but then again, when I think of my H's irresponsible behaviors, I know I don't have whole a lot of options here. H is very comfortable being irresponsible. Those in the middle of the affair are being irresponsible as well, but if it happens only once, then they might just wake up someday, but our spouses have a history of preferring to be irresponsible, so I guess there is a difference.

Or is it the same for those whose spouses are going through midlife crisis?

Geeeeee, I am confusing myself....... And what really gets me is that I bet my H is not thinking like this AT ALL, even though he is the one who has cause this much pain and confusion! Aaaaaaagggggghhhh