Hi milk,

I saw my IC today and he said baby steps are a good way to go....I think this is good for you....small steps forward. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />...

I like that plan to set a time for thinking about it...sometimes it feels like it is the only thing on my mind...part of me wonders what did I think about before H left??? I cannot remember <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

How did you feel when your IC said this?

Take care milk.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Daisy

hello slammed,


I think my H is a deffinate cake eater!! Darn! But he could not be if I did not give him a slice of the cake <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />...am I willing to take that slice away....don't know <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />....makes me sad <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />...


Boy, you might as well be describing my H <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />...He is so grampy sometimes, given the meds and if he works late at night...He works late T,W,Th, I did not call yesterday and don't plan to today...I had a good day yesterday and am having a good day today.....don't want his moodiness to ruin it for me.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />.



You know, it really sounds to me like your H is not happy....He might be talking to you because he is reminded of the happiness you two did share in the past....that is just a thought....but he really does not sound happy...

My H kept saying, I am happier since I left you etc...etc...and I would look at him and he looked tired and told me he was arguing with people at work and yelling and getting into verbal fights with people on the street (like a senior citizen who told him not to ride his bike on the sidewalk, and a bus driver who honked at him and H ended up giving him the finger and arguing with him when the driver pulled up besides him...not things he did before...sure sounds like TRUE HAPPINESS to me... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />


Your phone conversation is strange to say the least...but who knows who it was, it could have been the Mom as you said....have you thought of telling him about the incident to see what he says....




Wow, that is some list!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Good luck with that <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />...I say go for the manicure/pedicure and throw in a massage and than watch a good movie and enjoy a cup of coffee in the backyard with some chocolate cake!!! Sounds mighty good. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />


HEY, happy birthday! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Slammed, don't count on him to do anything...really expect the least than you don't get AS desapointed....sorry, but I know how you feel....

Hang in there... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />.

Daisy

p.s. I just love using these greamlin guys....love it.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

milk have you spoken to steve or jennifer lately?

Hi all,

Okay, okay, I am not supposed to be logging in now - but I forgot to add a few more things for Slammed so I had to come back this morning!

I thought the phone call was weird too, but try not to over analyze it. That would drive you crazy.

But most importantly, I wanted to say.... HAPPY BIRTHDAY, SLAMMED! As Daisy said, do not expect anything from your H. Our Hs are all incapable of "giving" now. No one knows how long this stage lasts, but they can certainly think about themselves ONLY at this point. It was our 12th anniversary a couple of weeks ago. I had a card to give to H, but he did not stop by nor mention anything about it, so I did not give it to him.

Next time around this time, hopefully we will be in a better place no matter what happens, so keep up with your busy schedule and stay positive! If you live in the Chicago area, I would have taken you out....

And thanks for your encouragement Daisy. I actually felt okay and semi happy last night!!! Wow! I realized my life is not perfect and it is not turning out the way I wanted or planned, but heck, no one would have a perfect life either. I was looking at my beautiful son in bed and hearing the sound breathing of my dog that was sleeping at the bottom of the bed - and I felt semi complete. Yes, it would be wonderful if I had my husband next to me as well. But he does not want to be here. But my kids (sorry for including my dog, but he really is my first boy) were there with me, and they LOVE me!

I just felt compelling happiness when I thought about it. So I was grateful for what I have...., probably for the first time in a very long time.

Hi Realtor, no, unfortunately I do not have any family in this country. Daisy and I are in the same boat. This really stinks. I wish I had my family nearby. It would have made a big difference emotionally, I am sure. But again, it just happened this way and this is beyond my control, so I am trying not to think too negative about this.

Eav, good to hear from you! Yesterday I read your post about your H calling you from the airport. That is great! Keep hoping for the best and fighting, but try not to get too excited either to protect yourself..., I know it is very difficult. I am trying to have zero expectations as well. No, I haven't spoken to SH or Jennifer recently. I have too many bills to take care of ... I actually talked to one of the consultants from DB. This is a while ago, I ordered a book and they gave me a special discount (!), so I went ahead and scheduled the consultation. She recommended that I take care of myself (to look good, smell good, etc), but act more mysteriously and I do not need to tell everything to H. But again, at this point I really do not see any positive outcome from H.

Did you have more sessions with Jennifer?

Hey Milk,
That is so great!!! It is good to have good days....and it is true we have other things/people in our lives to give us happyness...

I had 2 good days in a row(W,TH)...I felt so good! It was so nice to enjoy myself and be happy for a change!

Today was a bit harder but still, I went to friend's house we played boardgames and I had a lot of fun...I just got home....

I did not call H and he did not call me on W and Th. Then today he called me at work (after calling at home)...we chatted....When I got of the phone I did not feel good at all...he was telling me about the last 2 night how he and his roomate went over to a pub and have been trying out different wiskey and scotch...for some reason it bothers me when I here him say that....Arrgggg!

We were suppose to see a movie on Sun, but it turns out to be more expensive because you can only see it if you attend this 'gala'....so, now I said I'd rather see this other movie....H said he is always up for a movie but he will see...he says he does not have enough cash (he bought some music equipment...) ....he said the thing about having no money like 3 times...I had nothing to add...it is not my concern(I certainly don't feel bad for him - he has enough for scotch after all)....so he says he might go paint a deck at his former professor's house...

I just listen to all this and it bothers me....this is a person that did nothing at our house (ok, he washed dishes - most went into the dishwasher), I mean he did hardly anything around the house....I cannot even say "I miss my husband because now I have to do "blah"." I cannot say that, there is nothing he did! I even shafled the snow in
-30 temperatures....he just never felt like it...

So, it does bother me now, that he is going to paint a deck for someone....he basically did nothing before and it seems to me because he did not see any 'reward' (i.e. cash) he had no incentive to do it....just like a kid!

I get so mad when I think about this stuff....He is living in a basement with 3 roomates...has one room....he has never rented an apartment by himself...he always has roommates....and he is not even stryving to have anything more....So, he just is content to work from paycheck to paycheck and IF he finds he does not have enough for a movie - he'll go paint someone's deck!!!???

I remember our conversations sometimes would come to carriers etc...and he would say to me at times...'why is just working to make ends meat not enough, you do it and then you have time to yourself to do what you want, no pressure at work...you are happy..." I really did not believe that is all he wanted (wants)! I am starting to realize it really is all he wants! His idea is to just have fun and be happy today, he does not think about the future...he said that to me 2 months back "I don't give a dam about future, I care about today...I am all about being happy today..."...

Lately I am only seeing a person that I did not fall in love with... I fell in love with a man that I believed had a rough life and overcame so much and was trying to achieve something in life, someone who wanted a family (he asked me to marry him and spoke of children)...someone who did not drink (not even coffee or soda) ... this person is gone!!
It makes me cry just to think about it...there is really so little left of the person I fell in love with...

We will never be together again... we want different things from life.... I don't care about money as such, I was always fine with him working (not continuing school) but I guess I thought he could do better then a dishwasher, I thought he could work at some office or whatever .... I am not saying a dishwasher is a bad job...someone has to do it...so what I am getting at is wanting also more when you do get home.... thinking about the future...wanting to help your parten and not think 'anything I do for her will be a sacrifice to my happiness so I'll do nothing!'
I am mad at myself that I married this person...

I am sorry milk, I don't mean to take over your thread...just trying to unload all the pain I feel right now...Just kind of down today....I think I should not talk to him....

Oh, then towards the end he starts telling me how he was with this indian friend last night and the guy was telling him about arrange marriages (he will be gettting married soon) and my H is telling me 'boy they are so old fashion and they have so many rules'...... I really did not even want to discuss this! I mean, who is he to sound critical of a marriage systment when he left a M and never really did try to work on it!! I hate that he and his bubble can still get to me.....

I really think he still wanted me to pay for the movie...he said he wanted to go to see this other movie and after saying it a couple of times he said to me 'are you interested'.... it felt like he could not tell if I was...I thought that was a good thing...keep him on his toes...I am not sitting around waiting for him....no way!

I hope tomorrow is better....I was looking forward to the weekend but now....

The thing that also bothers me is that other people have said to me things that have the underlining message 'he is a looser, you are better off'.... but I keep defending him to them and I say 'he has the right to do what he wants and find his own happiness'...etc.... I still see something in him that was there when we met and I know he is a good person but I am starting to think they may be right... a looser might be too strong... but that his wants and dreams are just no where near mine.... I should just move on....

Best Milk,
Daisy

Milk and Daisy,
Thanks for your recent replies- glad both of you have
been having some good days of feeling "stronger".
I too have some of those moments (and maybe days)
along with some really down times, and guess both
are to be expected. My IC has said that going through
numerous moods and feelings, even in one day, is
totally normal and to just "go with it".

I was surprised yesterday, to get a call from H while
I was at work. I knew H was at a business conference
out of town, and he has never called me while on a trip.
He said he was just calling to "touch base" and see if
"everything was okay." We talked a little about the
dog (he always asks about her), he asked a quick
question about a project which is being completed
in our house, and I asked if he was enjoying the
conference. He said it was okay, not as many people
attending as last year (I attended last year and it
was really fun). Asked if he'd been at some of our
favorite and usual shops, restaurants, the spa at the
hotel, the hot tubs in the evening, and he said "no"
he hadn't done any of that. Thought that was kind of
odd (like what was he doing then ?) and don't know
if he just didn't want to say he was having fun
without me, or if he really wasn't.
I did assume that since he was calling, it could be a
good sign that he didn't take anyone with him (although
he could certainly have "snuck" off to call).

Daisy- Our H's really do sound similar ! What meds
is your H taking ? Do you notice a big difference
(either good or bad) with them ?
My H has been on about 7 or 8 different AD's, and
also has been tried on some meds for ADD.
I do think any of the AD's helped his moods be more "steady" than they are when he's not taking
anything, but none really help a lot.
The ADD meds did nothing....
I personally think that it seems like all the Dr's
have focused on his depression rather than digging
deeper and trying to find/treat a source. He
definitely also does have OCD (obsessive-compulsive
disorder) which seems to account for some of his
very "obsessive" type behaviors.
I agree that H does not seem happy. Like yours,
my H doesn't seem to really need a real "reason"
to be unhappy, it just seems to be an internal
thing. Mine also gets very mad or frustrated at
things that are minor and wouldn't upset most people.

Mine is also somewhat like yours, in wanting different
things and having different goals than I do.
I have always just wanted what I considered a "normal"
life, with a happy marriage, kids, house, dog, friends,
family, holidays, vacations, and enough money to pay
the bills, put a little in the bank ! I'm not, though,
overly concerned about needing lots of "things" or
the fanciest, nicest, most expensive of houses, cars,
belongings.
My H came from a family living in a small town in a
mostly rural area, and his family are very basic, simple
people. He seemed to want the same things as I did when
I first knew him and we first got together. However,
as the years have passed, he's become much more interested
in having a bigger/more expensive house, car, belongings,
etc. and making more and more money.
I don't think anything is wrong with wanting to make
more money, or to have nice things, but don't like the
way he has seemed to go "overboard" with it, even to the
point of running up big charges on his credit card.
(Fortunately, they are his only, and not joint).
I kind of think this seems like an effort to fill an
"empty" place inside him, which he hasn't been able to
do any other way. If there is something going on with
a OW (or multiple OP), maybe it's about the same thing too.

Milk- Sounds like you are doing a great job of handling
the situation with H and your interactions regarding your
son.

Thank you both for your birthday wishes. I am
trying to keep busy again this weekend, and hope
to get a lot done so I can feel a good sense of
accomplishment.
I am working this morning, will do some laundry
housework, and yardwork this afternoon, and may
go out with friends tonight (if not, I'll relax
and have a pedicure). Tomorrow, my parents are
taking me out to lunch, and I'll get as much
done as I can on my "to do" list. (I always
like to start out a "new year" feeling as
organized as I can). Oh, and I'll be having a
drink to celebrate, even if it's just by myself ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hope you both have good weekends and keep feeling
a sense of peace.
Slammed






I felt really strange about that phone call I told
you about last week, but haven't had any more since
and decided it might have just been something like
a sales person after all. If not, they haven't
called back, so must not have been too important.
I didn't mention in to H, in case it was some OW
checking up on him- didn't want to give him a
"heads up".

I did not have good weekend - I kept thinking about H and missing him. I just want him to love me again the way he did before - but now I wonder if he ever truly loved me. I thought he was always very much in love with me, but looking at him now makes me second guess. Maybe he was lying and never really cared about me. I don't know.

I have been feeling really sad the past few days. I hope I will feel a bit better tomorrow.

Hey Milkshake,

Thanks for dropping into my thread. I just wanted you to know that I've been reading your story from the beginning, although I don't think I've posted to you before.

Take care of yourself, girl.

Alph.

Hey Milk,
{{{{{{{Milk}}}}}}}

I really cannot believe your H never loved you...I am sure there was a time when he did...he would not have been with you so long and had a son if he did not...I don't know him, it just does not sound right...

Hang in there milk...The weekends can be hard on us...Is there anything you would like to try to do that you never had....think about it...or do some crafts or something like that...it is something all together different when you create something...it feels so nice. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Hope you are doing better...

Daisy

Thanks Alphin and Daisy.

I do not want to throw in a pity party. I have to fight the negative thoughts. Still, I just keep thinking I would have never imagined my life would turn out like this. I cannot even keep my own son, who is the only hope I have now in my life, to myself. H said taking care of DS3 is too much for him. Yet he wants to see him often, b/c now it is easy for him to spend time with him - the hardest work is done by me! I have to "share" him with H every other weekend and one evening every other week - I miss DS3 so much and I really do not feel this is fair.

H is the one who broke our family, yet how come he has any "right" to demand convenient love from DS3?

Hey Milk,
I'm sorry you are feeling down.
I can certainly understand, though, and think
it's totally normal and expected, given the
circumstances we are in ! My IC has said that
having a wide range of moods and emotions,from
mad,to hurt,to frustrated,to sad,and everything
in between is very normal and that I should just
let myself be in whatever mood I'm in.
She has suggested "journaling" so I can put down
my feelings- don't know if you might do anything
like that or not ? Also, have you been to some
counseling ? It sure has been helpful to get
insight on H's behavior, help me feel better about
myself, and to just be able to vent !!

I agree with Daisy- I'm sure H did love you (and
probably still does) but it seems that any of the
WH find it pretty easy to "re-write history" and
conveniently forget all the good things of the
relationship, their spouse, their family, etc.
I think this applies too, to those with addictions
and mental or emotional issues, because the "subject"
of their addiction has become their new "love" and
they don't want to think about reality !

My weekend went okay. I did house and yard work,
laundry, went out to dinner, watched a movie,
did a pedicure and manicure, and went out to lunch
with family.

Yesterday was my birthday- I decided in advance I
would try to just treat it as "another day", and
would not expect anything from H, so I wouldn't
be disappointed. H called during the day regarding
some receipts and bills, but didn't say anything,
so I assumed he probably didn't remember the date.
Was VERY surprised when I got home, and there were
a dozen roses and a card on the kitchen table from
him !!
I called and said thank you, just spoke briefly.
Then, within about 30 minutes, he called me back,
said he just wanted to say "happy birthday'.
Not sure what the deal was with that- why he would
call back to say the same thing again, but we just
again spoke for a moment and said goodbye.

I went out for dinner with a friend afterwards, had
a nice evening, but kept wondering what is going on
with H ! It made me feel good that he remembered me
and called, and made me wonder if maybe he is coming
out of the "fog" and back into reality, realizing
what he'd be missing and losing, but then I felt
bad because he's not at home, and hasn't said anything
to indicate he's even thinking of it.
Made me wonder if the lunches, calling, remembering me
were just him trying to make us friends ?

Hope you are both having a good week- ?
Slammed

I really understand how you feel about this. As far as I'm concerned, my WH blew any rights he had as a father when he walked out on us.

However, my kids still have their right to know their father. When they see him, I allow it for their sake, not his.

{{{milk}}}

Alph.

First, thanks Alph for putting it that way. Yes, for the sake of my dearest son, I can do anything, and DS3 does have his right to know his father. This I can do!!! Not for H!

This is not to say that I do not want my marriage to be saved, but so far H has exhibited OVER and OVER that he only cares about himself (he even said so several times...), and it is at times very difficult to let go of my most precious thing in life (= my son) BECAUSE of him. I only wish H was at least one of those kinds you often read about on this board who comes home to have dinner with his family even though he lives away...

Slammed, I am VERY VERY happy for you that your H not only just remembered your birthday but also sent you red roses!! That is very romantic.

Your husband seems to have a very impulsive personality. This actually applied to H as well, and SH also noticed it.

Your husband decided filing for D is a good idea and ONLY solution to whatever inner struggle he had, and appeared almost very angry towards you, but b/c you sort of moved along with him even though you did not want a D (which, now in the hindsight, I think was the best thing you could do. Unlike me fighing against H's divorce idea, which only makes him mad even more), now he is having a second thought. Also, he might have expected you to react more negatively and try to stop him, and since you didn't, he might be saying to himself "wait a second, if I continue on the paperwork, we REALLY are going to get divorced...!!!".

When H first said he was "in love" with the young girl, he was so determined and convinced that was the answer for him. Then when his therapist asked him if this young girl reminded him of his biological mother who passed away when he was 22 months old, he called me on my cell very excited just to tell me "I think I only thought I was in love with her b/c she reminded me of my mom!"

Later when I told him "you are so impulsive about making your decisions", he agreed.

Yet his impulsiveness continued and then later on he was "obsessed" over the idea of moving out. Which he did.

Anyway, impulsiveness can be scary b/c obviously you do not make any rational decision. But I am glad your husband seems like he is not going with his impulsive decisions now. Also you did a beautiful job not having any expectations from him. That really paid off! Good job Slammed! Keep up with zero expectations with positive attitude!

Milk,
I read you posts and I feel sad b/c I can read so much of my H in there...

My H became obsessed with seperating...it was all he could come up with for several months to improve our R...all he saw were all the bad things in the R, all the bad things about me etc...and he convinced himself that seperating was the right way to go and I just did not get how obsessed he was with it...I really thought he was going to try to work on improving the R...I was wrong...

My H just stopped by at my job. He wanted a blank CD and was going to stop by tomorrow but I said come by today...He works near here and so stopped by...Yesterday we went to a Jazz performance together, we had a nice time..went for a pie afterwards, talked, we had a good time talking, it was so easy and comfortable...now he stopped by and since he just worked he is tired and generally unplesant as I know he to be... He lend me some CDs yesterday to copy so I returned those as well...He grabbed it all, then asked how long I was still going to work...I said like half an hour...He wanted a ride home...and was not too excited and had really nothing to say...I told him about an movie I bought and that it finally came in the mail..his responds: well I am too tired to watch it tonight but some other time...I did not even ask him over!! The presumptions! Then he just decided to walk home (it is about 25 minutes away)...I said ok, see you later. He gave me this force smile that I really dislike, it is so demeaning, and just left... I am proud of myself for not agreeing to run when he wanted (I can leave work anytime)...but I resisted! I really did not expect him to wait till I wanted to leave, but it is the unpleasantness that I cannot take...I certainly had no incentive to do him a favor...he did not even thank me for the CD!

I don't see how I can live with this man. It is never going to work for me...He can be like night and day, 180 degree turn at any time...and the thing is he does not even try to feel better....He just says I feel how I feel and I am intitled to that feeling...etc...

aahhh!

Daisy

Hi Daisy,

I am sorry we both had bad day yesterday. Your H sounds very moody and he does not even feel bad about it. That can be very annoying and discouraging for you to continue to what you have been doing, I understand. I guess that is why Dr. Harley suggests to have a time limit for Plan A, otherwise you get really tired. Relax Daisy, in your case, you are not facing any immediate danger of D, so you really do not have anything to worry or fear about right at this moment, so take a deep breath and try not to think about it too much. Then when you get your strength back, then think about how you want to move forward. Continue on with Plan A with 180, or something else?

I really had a bad evening yesterday and could not sleep. I will write about it later, I need to finish my report first.

Hugs,
Milk

Hey Milk,
Thank you...I get down and then I don't see the light at the end of the tunnel, so to speak....I guess I just feel like we make 2 steps forward and it feels good and then it is 4 back again...or so it feels...

I just don't understand him sometimes...or at this point I wonder if I just don't understand man...I mean when my girlfriends don't feel like chatting on the phone and hanging out they tell me so, in a respectful way...but not him...he says nothing, but his demeaner is unpleasant and frankly unrespectful....I mean, I did not do anything to cause him to feel bad, so why am I getting the distant and I am out of here treatment...why can't he just say: I am tired, I'll just go home'. Or do man just behave differently then women?? I don't know anymore...

Let me know how you are doing milk...I feel like here we all understand each other and it is a good way to get feeling of frustration or whatever out...

I do need that time to think what to do next....I am really not sure...it is sad really, but I just don't know...I worry that if I do plan B, he will just be too angry to do anything about it and we will not speak again...and besides, I don't know what to even say in a Plan B letter if there is no A... I think I just don't want to accept that it is never going to work between us....My H believes he is intitled to feel any way he feels even if that means being noncommunicative for days...before he left he just believed it was the relationship that had him down and depressed and he needed to get away from me...now he can get away from me, just leaves like yesterday or hangs up the phone...but did I cause him to feel bad? No, so it is not all the R...why can't he see that? But he is determined it is us so why do I bother?...

Hugs to you milk....
sorry about my rant, got to do it sometimes....

Daisy

{{{Daisy}}}

I am sorry that you are in pain. I know exactly what you are saying. Mine says and believes the same thing. That our M has caused H a lot of stress and depression, which ended up making him acting up, therefore he must get away from it. H said this repeatedly "our relationship is not healthy for me. I need to focus on myself and want to get healthier. I need to move away from this."

Now he is gone for so long, he really does not feel anything for me. Now, considering that we have spent 15 years together, it is hard to believe. But as of now, in H's mind, that 15 years really did not even exist or did not mean ANYTHING to him. Actually, in his mind they were ALL BAD, and he is happy he is OUT of R with me.

I see your H is doing the same thing; blaming your R for all of his inner problems. We keep hearing this is SO VERY common among WS. They all believe their unhappiness has been caused by others, and they need to get rid of them. They justify their wrong behaviors. Your H and my H are no exceptions.

Like you, I have no idea how he can convince himself so strongly that all the bad thing happened because of our R. That is just impossible. But we cannot reason them. They believe it, b/c they WANT to believe in it in order to avoid feeling guilty. Oh, you should look at H now. He has no remorse, nothing! At least at the beginning he felt bad enough. Now he only hates me, it seems like. That is probably another defense mechanism for him. If he hates me, it will be easier for him to justify his reasons of leaving his family.

We just have to have completely ZERO expectations, Daisy. Our husbands cannot GIVE anything to us. They probably do not really know what they are looking for either. My H seems to think ONCE he finds another woman who would love him to death, all the problems will be solved and he can truly move on. He does not realize that she would never share the same memories we do or would ever be able to talk about our son the way we do. He can't replace me. But he is looking. When he is in this mind set, I guess I can see why he can't give me anything. Once he is in a relationship with someone else and starts to see "imperfectness" in the new R, maybe then he might be able to see what we had in our R. But I don't know, and I should not hold my breath.

Hope you are having a better day today.

Love,
Milk

Hello Milkshake,

I just wanted to say "hello" and that I'm sorry you've been feeling down lately.

Boy, you sound like me....

- How can 15 years together mean nothing to him?
- I wonder if he ever even loved me?
etc.

I've stopped wondering about these things (for the most part, anyway <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />). I have let go, and it feels good.

I think you're exactly right when you say...

They all believe their unhappiness has been caused by others, and they need to get rid of them. They justify their wrong behaviors.

I have come to this conclusion, too. The issue lies within my stbxh. He is unhappy, and he will remain unhappy, whether I am with him or not. This applies not only to our relationship, but everything else in his life, too. He has been unhappy at work, and was waiting for a promotion - which, of course, would finally make him happy. Well, he got his promotion, and he is STILL unhappy! He said that he never waited for something for so long to find out that it's not what he expected it to be. He told me that he HATED his new job!

After that, I sent my stbxh a long email (about a month ago). I found an article on the internet about perfectionism. I gave him the link and told him that it really reminded me of him. I told him that as long as he is a perfectionist, he will never be happy. I referred to his new job and his new apartment (which he was also complaining about). I didn't mention our R, I just implied a little.

Anyway, it has helped me to realize this about him. It is also much nicer now to live without the contant criticism and blame, too. Like you say, too, if my stbxh ever does have another real R, he will eventually find that it is not "perfect" either.

Tonight I fly off to Philly. STBXH will pick me up from the airport. It's time to get those final signatures and send in the final documents for our D. I'm a little worried about seeing him again, but I think I will be ok. He even wants to go OUT! What's the point?

I won't be checking MB over the weekend while I'm away, but I hope you have a good one.

Take care.

Dear Milk and Daisy-
I really do see such similiarities in our H's ,
and to some degree I think it's because of their
mental/emotional issues/addictions.
My H has always seemed to place the "blame" on our
marriage and on me for making him unhappy and depressed
instead of facing that fact that he has depression and
"blaming" that ! Seems so logical and clear, so I
don't know why he doesn't "get it" !!
(My IC has said it's very common for people to look
for "outside" causes or sources to blame rather than
looking at themselves and dealing with their issues).

I have told H before that it's not the marriage or
M making him unhappy, it's HIM, and that no matter
what he does or where he goes, and no matter who he
is with, the unhappiness is still going to be there, and with him- until he does something about it.
He hasn't agreed however and I suppose that has been
the whole basis for the behaviors he has shown in
the past few months- I guess he thinks that going to the gym, getting a new, "fancier" vehicle, a new, bigger
house, and trying to make more money are going to
"fix" all his problems and make him happy.
I guess finding a "new" person also fits into his
plan and has been the reason for his "quest" to
flirt, talk or get together with people he's met
on the internet or whatever else he's been doing !

I don't know if deep down inside, H really does
know his problems are internal and that he needs to
do something to help himself and is just scared,
or doesn't want to make the effort or take time
to do anything about it- or if he really truly
believes the problems are something/someone else !

I guess H thought the same thing you both mentioned-
that being away from me and the marriage would free
him to feel great. I think my H might be enjoying
doing his "own thing" to some degree, but he really
doesn't seem happy when I talk to/see him.
Makes me wonder if he is missing the "surface" stuff
like having a nice, neat home, being around his dog,
having clean clothes, meals, etc. or if he might
also miss the important stuff, like being best
friends with his spouse, having someone care about
him, having history and common goals together !

Having had H call me for lunch a few times lately
and him remembering my birthday earlier this week
did make me feel a little encouraged, but I've
felt really down about things the past few days-
He's said nothing about him possibly considering
working things out, going to counseling, trying
to have a "fresh start" together, moving back home
or things like that.
Makes me wonder if he just wants to "be friends"
because he has so few friends ?
Makes me wonder if he's just gone back to the stage of "fence sitting" ?
Makes me feel like I might be getting my hopes up
but that to him nothing has changed, and he may
just anyday decide to file the D- ?

I feel sad too, because fall has always been both of
our favorite seasons. We always liked going to see
the fall colors, football season, apple cider,
decorating for halloween, etc.

I don't like not knowing what to expect or plan for
the future. H was in a big hurry to finish up some
projects in our house so it could sell, and those
have been held up by delays in getting supplies,etc.
Besides that, there would still be much to do-such
as doing some house and yard touch ups/maintenance,
de-cluttering rooms, shampooing carpets, etc and
he's not made any mention or effort towards doing
any of that. Makes me wonder if he's still in such
a big rush-?

Have just started thinking about two situation and
don't know how they are going to be handled-
One is that my stepdaughter (12) has been calling
often and wants to come to visit (she lives out of
state and hasn't been here since last Christmas).
H has not said anything about our seperation or
situation and probably doesn't want to, but he
can't really postpone her coming too long.
Also- my inlaws usually come out here once a year
to visit. Last year they came for Christmas, and
I kind of wonder if they are wanting to/thinking
they will come this year. They also do not know
anything about H moving out.

In both cases, I have felt like H should be the one
to say something and I want to stay "out of it",
but know that H isn't likely to say anything unless/
until he absolutely has to. He is not close with
his family and has always wanted to keep them out
"of his business".
Partly this is because he is from a very small town
where all his relatives live nearby. Everytime he
has told his Mom anything, EVERY one hears about it
and this really bugs him. Also, his family is quite
disfunctional, and his Mom totally freaks out about
really minor things, so I'm sure he doesn't want to
deal with her being upset, mad, questioning, and
probably constantly calling both of us.

I guess I'll just have to try to not worry about it,
and see how things go. It is a couple of months and
things can change quickly, but I like to plan ahead
so it's hard not to know.

I guess we all have to do our own things, and try
to stick with zero expectations. I hope you both
are having a GOOD day today.
Slammed

Hi Milk and slammed,

Milk, you completely hit the nail on the head! Yes, they believe we were or the M was at fault because they want to believe it....I saw my IC today and we spoke about choices! H chooses to be moody and unpleasant, I did not make him unpleasant and unhappy... he just chose not to deal with anything...and was unhappy... he had no ideas to what we could do to solve our problems and work on the marriage...and what he could do to get his life together...so his choice was to leave and do nothing to work on it....

slammed,

This is my case as well...H kept insisting how much happier he is since he left, yet it does not seem that way to me...

You say your H looks into getting better job, bigger house, better car etc...My H is looking for complete lack of responsibility...he does not really like his job, but he'll stay at it because it is the lowest possible and requires no responsibility to do it and anyone can do it (he told me this)...then his bills are basically 300$ to rent out a room in the basement... has no aspirations to any anything more... his idea of happiness is to have the least amount of responsibility and work just to get by... I did not believe him when he use to tell me this... but he has proven it to me now....no wonder he was freeking out when I was talking having kids - in the next 5 years <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />! I was sure putting the lid on the coffin wasn't I <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />... I just get so ticked of sometimes... please ignore me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />...

I actually had a better day today...I went and bought some plants for my house <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />...and cleaned out the bedroom closet! It felt good. I am making plans on what changes I want to make and I went to look at some furniture... I'll probably go over the weekend...it is nice to be thinking about these practical matters and I'd like to decorate my bedroom and I can do it any way I want <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />! YEY! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Best to you both.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Enjoy
Daisy