...bump...

Hi Daisy,

Sorry, I have had some problems with my connection and could not use my computer all day yesterday.

Actually, I am not doing well either. Tuesday morning I felt pretty strong about D myself, as I really felt that H would never change and remain selfish.

Yet, that night, H called and wanted to talk about D, and that did it. I broke down. It is so hard to hear from him "I don't love you. I want to move on". I know he hasn't felt that he is "in love" with me for a while, but thought he still had some feelings left for me. When he told me a while back that he had never loved me in the past, I knew that was not true, and later on, H corrected his comment by saying "I DID love you very much". So I thought his feeling of "not loving Milk anymore" is also a phase and was hoping very hard that somehow that will be corrected as well.

Guess that would never happen. I really felt that H was gone and really meant that he does not love me anymore (although I still feel that his anger makes him say a lot of hurtful things at the same time), and I could not sleep Tuesday night. For the first time in a long time, I cried nonstop in front of DS3 (which I felt really bad about, but I could not help it). My eyes were so puffy all day yesterday. I had my IC yesterday afternoon, but that did not really help either.

I know my life does not just end here, and I will eventually feel happy again. I know this. But my heart does not tell me so. Now that I feel I really need to talk to H about D in a very business like manner, I am very scared. I know I will break down and it will be extremely difficult to have this D talk without showing any tears.

Now I wonder if any of H's words in the past such as "I love you more than anything in the world", "I do not know what to do without you", "I am so lucky to have you", etc., ever meant anything real. H was probably saying those things to me to hide his unfaithful thoughts/feelings towards other girls, and to try to convince himself that he was in love with me.

Maybe H can be cateogorized in the "serial cheaters" group, since from the very beginning of our M, H was always in one-way "love" with someone and he did not feel too bad about it (he thinks it was b/c our R was not right for him). In any case, his brother confessed me that he has same problems (although he is Christian so he won't actually do anything, but he said to me that it has always been pretty tough for him not to "fall" for another women), and H's sister has also been dating like 50 guys so far and cannot settle down with any of them - maybe something runs in the family. I thought H was different, but I guess not.

I cannot make H love me. I know SH and other people say "your spouse fell in love with you before, so he/she can be in love with you again", and I do believe that, but if H does not believe it, and he believes love is all about "feeling" and not about "decision", there is nothing I can do about it. All what H has been doing since he moved out was to see if his old feeling would "naturally" come back to him, which obviously did not. I wish he thought "okay, my feeling is not as strong as when I first met her, but since we decided to get married, I will try to see if by trying to work out our issues I can again love her". That is all what we want, right? But H chose not to go that path. H wants out, he wants an easy way out.

I know this decision is not easy for him either. H has said it, and I believe it. But still, walking away is an easier path for him than sticking to our M.

Thanks for listening....

Milkshake,

I am so sorry for what your H is saying to you and the pain it causes you...Why can't the WS just leave and stop talking! I mean, the pain we have to deal with just for their leaving is enough, but they have to add in all the hurt with their words. I am a bit angry today. I think they just say it to rationalize their actions. There is no need to tell you all that!!! He could just say, I want a D and that is it.

I am really sorry Milk. I know you want your H back...I really wish it for you...Your H is not thinking that way now, he may yet change his mind but we don't know that...Now, it sounds like he is quite determined. Either way, I really think you are doing better...you just sound better that is. As you said you cannot force him to be by your side...he has to want it on his own...

{{{{{{Milk}}}}}}

I don't know what else to say, just hang in there...you will be happy again milk...take it one day at a time...I got these flashcards with positive messages on them...Sometimes I feel like a fool, but it really helps me. I got them around my house, and have some in my purse and my jacket pocket, and I read them a couple of times a day, it helps me to get through the hard days...

Today, I am a bit angry. H called me last night. 2 weeks ago he came by and took some off his stuff from the basement (I put all his stuff there), and even took the x-box. I figured he would sell it. Yesterday, he asked me if I wanted it, otherwise he would sell it. I said, I don't need it. So, he asked me if I could help him out, he would like to put it in the classifieds in the paper and could I look into it for him (as we talked since I was on the computer). Could I place the add for him over the web. I suggested he comes over, and he was all no I am tired from work...so I gave him a phone number that he could call them instead...I really did not want to do it for him. Why should I???
When I suggest anything that he could do something for me he is very quick to stop me from asking him, and basically makes it continuously clear with his actions that I should not ask him anything! This is how he wants it, I do for him, but he does nothing for me. Arrrrrg. I get so tired of his self absorb attitude <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />!!! Really. Today I am determined not to call. Because once I told him the phone number of the paper, he really had nothing to say to me and basically was not really interested in anything I was saying <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />. So, I ended the call. I felt like all he wanted was for me to help him. If I don't do as he wants, he stops engaging me. What does he thing, I am here only to help him when he wants, but otherwise I should just keep my distance. Darn them. My H is acting so selfishly. I think he still is thinking if he does anything for me I may be under the impression that he wants to get back together <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />. Hey, is he ever going to realize that I may not want him back! Lately, these conversations have really pointed out to me his selfishness to the point that I really am noticing that the anger I feel is eating away at the love I have for this man...my LB is not that full right now...

I am determined not to talk to him for a couple of days...just want some peace...

Take care milk <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Daisy

Hi Daisy,

You sound very upset and yes, I could see your H has withdrawn some units from your LB. I am sorry Daisy. People are all selfish by nature, including us. But I do not think I can ever be THAT obviously selfish! I always felt bad if I see H working around the house (which was rare), then I would make sure I do something else. I could never just watch TV while H was working. Yet, H had NO PROBLEM whatsoever to do the reverse. I could be juggling multiple tasks, yet H could just play computer games or watch TV. If I ask him to watch DS3 so that I could finish cooking, for example, he gets annoyed. H made it sound like he was doing me a favor. Your H sounds similar - he can ask you for help anytime but you are not supposed to ask him anything, right. Your H gets annoyed. What is wrong with those men? How did they grow up?

Even work related matters - every time I asked him to proof read some of my report, he gets annoyed. Yet he asks me about his work or computer related things and I was always happy to help him.

It is a good idea to carry flash cards around with you. I may do the same. Otherwise it is very hard to maintain positive thinking.

But I stopped one thing. I used to feel very bad for H and sorry for him, but I am not goint to do that anymore. Yes, we both contributed to the failure of our marriage, but (1) that is not a good excuse for H to always have EA with other women or lie to me about smoking marijuana and sexual compulsive behaviors, (2) I am willing to improve myself and work on our R, but he has given up and wants to pursue his freedom. I am trying to be responsible for us and for our son by being willing to work on our M. H is not.

So I am not going to feel bad or sorry for him anymore. H cannot be the victim all the time. H cannot just pick a new agenda that works for him and expects me to be happy about it and go with his plan on his terms only. Just b/c I am having a hard time accepting the fact our M is over, H cannot blame me for not being "cooperative" with him. H cannot say that I am being "selfish" by wanting our M to work.

H is manupulative. I am not going to feel sorry for him anymore. It breaks my heart to think that our M is over, but I tried to save it. I am going to greive for a while, but at the same time I am not going to blame myself for it.

The funny thing is, I am sure that is exactly how H is feeling. In his mind, he tried to save our M, but it could not be saved and therefore he is not going to feel bad about it. He told me that he refuses to feel guilty. He thinks God is blessing his decision, so what else can I say?? H is ignoring the fact he was not a perfect husband or father either, but only pointing out that I was not a perfect wife and therefore he always fell in love with other women and that was my fault.

Even H's father said to me "he has always been selfish in a way, but at the same time he was one of the sweetest kids in the family". I agree. H has always been selfish, I guess b/c of his inmatureness, but his sweetness made up for it. Now his sweetness is gone and he is cruel, only his selfishness stands out.

Thanks for listening... Take care Daisy. You are very strong.

Hugs,
Milk

I have to say that my H is like this as well. It is really a lack of responsibility. H would feel bad for not helping, would say he was sorry, would say he would not be so selfish in the future, but that was it. He really hardly tried to do more...I just wanted us to find a way to solve that issue, I tried but nothing worked, I could not make him responsible, I see that now.



Some people just want it all...They get it all from family and just want that to continue...but I was suppose to be his partner <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />...oh well...


Good for you <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />. You can care for him still, but you don't have to put yourself in his shoes and feel bad for what is happening to him. I used to feel that way too. Now, H has choices...he needs to live with his decisions...He cannot blame anyone for what is happening in his life now...The same with your H...



Milk, I am so sorry. I really don't know how you handled his EAs. I would not be able to do it...


You know at the end all you can do is know you were willing to do everything you could to save your M. You know you tried...if he does not try and has no willingness to make it work and make it better, you cannot blame yourself...you did the best you could Milk <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />...



Milk, you are not being selfish. It is just that his current wants do not match up with yours. You want your marriage and he does not. Why is it that if we don't do as they want we are making it hard for them, and are uncooperative. Yet, we want them to work on the M and we are the bad guys again? Interesting...


Milk, please do not blame yourself. You both made mistakes, that is probably the case. You have examined your own actions, you recognize where you needed to make improvements, and you were willing to do what it took to make changes in your life to make the M better...That is all you can do. You cannot do more. I know how you feel, I am in the same boat, but H does not see that we could work on our M and have a better M and R. He really has convinced himself that our whole 4 year R was bad...it is amazing how they are able to rewrite history...amazing!!!



Don't try to figure him out. You cannot. Try to not think about what he is thinking and how he is justifying his behaviour...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Milk, I really hope he did not say that last part to you. I seriously doubt you were a terrible wife and therefore it was your fault that he fell in love with other women. This is complete BS <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />. If he said this, I think your H is really in some deep fog!! This is just mean!



No, Milk, I doubt his sweetness is gone, it is just that his selfishness (or whatever) is more apperant to you. Now, your eyes are open and you see him the way he is...you are also hurting so it is easy to see just the bad side of your H...but judging by what he says, seeing the bad side is not very difficult <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />....

I know I myself am seeing more of the negative side of H. But if I re-think carefully our conversation I do see some moments when he is quite sweet the way I know him to be...it is just that now the selfish side is a bit more prominent <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />...and I am still hurting so I pick up on that side more...he did kiss me nicely on the forhead the last time he was here after he brushed my hair...it was sweet...I get that glimps of the man I fell in love with and then the other guy shows up <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /><img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />!

Hope you are doing better today. It sounds like a rough day. I really cannot even imagine doing the D paperwork now. I don't think I could do it without crying...but I don't have to think about it yet...
My H has no money for a lawyer so it will be up to me to file and I will not file till I am good and ready...

Thanks for listening to me too.<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
Daisy

Hi Daisy,

H will come pick up DS3 tomorrow, and I am scared that he might bring up the D work - and I hate to always live like this. As if I have committed some kind of crime and always have to worry that a cup may stop by and bust me! That is how I feel. Every time H calls or comes by, I am scared that the big D talk may take place.

I hear about a lot of other women being very tough and setting boundaries, and would not let their men scare them. That is great. I cannot believe I have become this pitiful weakling over the past 10 months. I used to be very strong and confident. H even said to me when he was saying we could reconcile - "you are very stable, you are like an anchor, and I want to be an anchor too". What happened to the anchor?? It's gone long time ago to deep under the water somewhere.

Accept the fact H does not love me anymore! I keep telling that to myself. Still, thinking about starting the D paperwork is sooooooooooooo scary.

Milk,
I know how you feel, that constant feeling of fear is too much at times...
I feel it as well, just in different situations...

I am spending way too much time thinking about my H...at times it is nothing concrete, it's just that he is on my mind sometimes continuously...I really hate it...and it makes me wonder what happened to me, where have I desappeared to???

I still think you are doing better... I thought you were using a mediator? Is that not happening anymore? If you were using a mediator then you would not have to worry about him bringing anything up about the D, since that would be the mediators job. At least that is how I thought it works...

Try to enjoy today and not think about tomorrow...

Best,
Daisy

Daisy,

I guess next time H brings up the D subject, the only thing I can do is to go along with....

No, the mediator thing is not in our conversation now, as people have suggested I should not pay half of it (to make a point it is H who wants a divorce, and also b/c I am paying pretty much everything else and simply cannot afford), I told him that he should just follow through the idea. Then H just dropped it. H does not even want to pay for it. H wants an easy, quick, cheap divorce. One of the things SH suggested to me was to make H realize how much he has to pay in child support and how less often he can see DS3 to make him realize the life he is going to have once we get divorced.

But I think he is angry that divorce is expensive and I am not willing to pay for the mediator.

Milk,

Your H does really want it all...He wants a D but you should pay for it...and how dare you not do as he says <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />.

Don't give in Milk <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />. He wants it, let him have the headache. So is he talking to a lawyer now? Why is he bringing up D with you? Are you saying because he wants an inexpensive D he is trying to sord things out with you (such as child support and visitation rights, and etc.).

Milk, it sounds to me like this is the way that it can go:
1. cheap D - ASAP - you and him discuss it as much as possible now
Benefit to you: NONE
Cost to you: you hurt more because you are not ready but are forced to talk about it
Benefit to your H: inexpensive and He gets out ASAP (which is what he wants now)
Costs: NONE

2. cheap D - not ASAP - you and him discuss it but not right now (in a couple of months)
Benefit to you: take some time, don't face the pain now when you are not ready
Cost to you: I guess you could still have hope???
Benefit to your H: don't know
Cost to your H: he would have to wait, but he still gets the D.

3. expensive D now
Benefit to you: you don't talk as much - let the lawyers do the talking
Cost to you: it still happens now, but at least it is not face to face with him and money
Benefit to him: gets it soon
Costs to him: Money

Ok, so he does not want to go via #3.
He chooses not to do option 3, because of money, and so now you are suppose to be willing to go along with #1!!!???
Milk, if you cannot tell him face to face, I think you need to tell him in a email, that if he wants a D you will not stop him, but you are not ready for it today and you can only discuss it when the time is right for you OR via his lawyer.
You are not in a rush. He is! Why are you incuring all the costs???
He needs to incure a cost as well. It is either MONEY or TIME?
You are not ready. So tell him, when you are ready to discuss it, you two can discuss it. In the meantime he can come see his son as he has been...Your feelings matter. If he asks why are you stalling and it will not change my mind, etc. just say, I am doing what is best for me...end!

I know, probably harder to do than to say, but do think about it. You are under no obligation to make this easy on him. Really, if he wants it that bad, he should pay for it...then he can have it done, but if he is not willing than he has to face the costs and the fact that you do not have to rush it along (if you are not ready).

Best,
Daisy

Thanks Daisy. The way you put it is actually very clear and good way to see the whole thing.

I cannot stop him from divorcing me, that is true, but at the same time, I do not need to do it when he wants it and the way he wants it.

I will think about it this weekend. Thanks Daisy.

Take care,
Milk

I was trying to see if I could spend the weekend w/o spending too much time on this board, b/c that means ultimately I am continuously thinking about our M and H. Well, I was still visiting this board and divorcebusting board. WEAK!!!

H came by to pick up DS3 on Saturday and then on Sunday H and DS3 came by to pick up our dog. I am going on a trip this afternoon for business so I asked H to take care of the dog. I was happy to see DS3 who was waiting in the car when they arrived, but he was very cheerful and said "see you later mommy". He didn't cling or anything, which is good I guess, but it made me a bit sad as well.

I called his daycare to make sure he is okay. Often H would call to let me know how the weekend was and how the dropoff was, but he did not call me this time. H did not call Saturday night (even though he said he would) nor Sunday. I ended up calling him to see how DS3 was doing on Sunday.

DS3's teacher said he had a rough morning today - he was crying when H dropped him off, calling his name. That broke my heart. I wonder how H felt. I am sure he is okay. He does not feel any pain - several times he shut the door behind him even though DS3 was crying and running after him. This was shortly after H moved out. I could not believe how cold H was.

I guess I am just venting... Even if DS3 cries, as long as we are together, I could simply think "well, DS3 must have had a separation anxiety this morning" and that would be it. But b/c I feel so sorry for him that his mommy and daddy are not together, every time he cries for me or for his daddy, I feel like someone is stabbing a nife into my heart and twisting it.

Poor baby. And I cannot even see him tonight... I will miss him so much.

Milk,

Hey, don't be so hard on yourself. Think positive. So what that you went on MB and thought of your M? You are human. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


I know it is difficult to not stop yourself from calling, but I think you may need to do that. Just try to detach a little. Did you talk to your son when you called? If not, are you sure there is not a part of you that is calling to just talk to your H? I find that sometimes I just have to really focus and tell myself not to call H. There are times I cannot resist, the pull to call is so strong, but there are times I do resist and it feels good afterwards <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />.


Milk,
I really cannot relate to your situation regarding your son. I don't have children so I don't know the bond between the two of you (I understand it is strong). I am sorry you are going threw this, and I do feel for your son. What a confusing time for him. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

So, did your H bring up the D? If not that is good...

I ended up watching movies with my H this weekend. We saw each other every night on the weekend. There is a part of me that worries that this is not a way that my H will ever miss me enough to come back to the M...but I also want to see him (this is where I am weak <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />...

I am trying to show and stick to my bounderies though. I am making small steps but I feel good about these tiny steps anyway <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

The other night, H came over and wanted some dinner. I told him that all I got are eggs and potetoes, and I left the kitchen <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />. No way was I going to make it for him..Then he started eating something I was saving and I told him to ask me next time before just eating it...he was a bit surprised.

Now, yesterday he called me and asked me if I wanted to take him out to the movies. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> He just thought he would let me know that he was available if I was thinking of taking him out! I think all my H wants is all the benefits of being with me, none of the costs... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Nevertheless, it is hard to let go. I still love him and I know he is a good man and has all these wonderful qualitites that I love and I love to be with him. Yet now he seems to be showing a lot of strange qualities <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />...
But none of this gives me much hope that he will ever come back to the marriage. I mean, I want to have hope, but there is a part of me that just feels that H is happy doing his thing and not being responsible to anyone and that he is stuborn enough not to come back <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> (since he made the choice to leave)...
Anyway,

You will be ok, milk. Today is hard, since you don't have your son but there are good days up ahead <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />...

Daisy

Hi Milkshake and White Daisy,
I've been off the boards for a few days, but caught
back up with the thread today and thought I'd say
hello and give you an update myself.

H left me a message last Mon night, just to say he
had deposited my "half" of the money from the sale
of one of our vehicles, then called me Tues to ask
that I email him a list of all the bills due in Oct.

Wed he left me another message regarding the bills,
and I again didn't call him back, just emailed him
the bill list. Later in the day, he called to say
basically the same thing-

Thur night, H stopped over at the house to drop off
some receipts (I keep our checking account) and to
pick up his mail. He also took time to play with
our dog, and hung around a little longer than he
usually has.
He also brought some paperwork and wanted to talk to
me about our health insurance. We have been doing
health insurance through "Cobra" since May, when H
lost his previous job, and it is very expensive.
H wanted to tell me, that through his new "self
employment" job, he had a new option for insurance
that was much better price, and wanted my help to
fill it out, plus needed my signature.
I had figured I'd need to enroll in my job's insurance
as soon as there was an opportunity of open enrollment,
so was surprised he suggested we switch us all over
to his on a "family plan" (he has 2 daughters from
previous relationship he must cover on insurance).
since he's been talking about wanting D !!

He left the paperwork with me to read and sign,
and then asked if I'd want to meet the next day for
lunch. We did, and it was pleasant- mostly just "small
talk", and discussion about the insurance, but this was
the second week in a row that he asked me to lunch-
don't know if it means anything or not !
(last week was for no apparent reason)

I asked H if he had filed the D paperwork, and he
said NO- (I didn't think so and hadn't mentioned
for awhile, but wanted to know)

He told me he'd be going out of town to a business
function this week (Wed- Sat) which made me feel bad
as it's an event I attended with him last year, and
is at a beautiful resort up in the mountains, so
was really fun. He said he was going alone, but who
knows ???
Just said "see you later" when we left, and I've not
heard anything from him sense-

H has seemed a little more calm, and has been more
pleasant in the last couple of weeks, which corresponds
with the length of time that he's been off medication,
although it could be coincidental. (He had tried a new
anti-depressant, which I thought made him seem worse).
I thought maybe him acting nicer, asking me to lunch
and him still not having filed the D paperwork might
mean he was changing his mind, or getting a bit out
of the "fog"- but so hard to try to figure out anything
he does !

H has been out of the house for about a month now,
and I'm sure curious about where he is staying-
We own another house which is under some renovations,
so he might be there (although he says he is not),
otherwise, he might be at a hotel. Although he
says he's not with anyone, and just wants to be out
"on his own", I'm still convinced there is some OW,
or perhaps several of them, if he's enjoying being
a "bachelor" and "playing the field".
It's hard to snoop since he's not at home anymore,
but I did see his most recent credit card bill and
that gave me some insight to some of the things he's
been doing lately- he's bought some furniture items
and Direct TV (this is why I think he's at that other
house), some new clothes, and had several meals at
various restaurants, all in amounts that look like
they'd be 2 people. It was upsetting to see that he
is running up some pretty big bills when he used to
be very conservative about using credit cards or
running up bills ! Don't know if he thinks he's
going to get some big "windfall" of money or
something, but it's frustrating when I'm doing my
best to live frugally, not run up any big bills,
and be very careful with money !!
It was also upsetting, because it made me feel like
he's definitely still in the "FOG".

While I've been writing this, H just called to ask if
I could meet for lunch (no particular reason given).
While I'm sort of glad to see him, it also makes me
very anxious, since I wonder why ?????
I wouldn't think he'd want us to go to lunch if he's
going to say he's filing the D paperwork, don't know
of any other "business" we have, so don't know what
to expect.

How are both of you doing- and anything new ?
Slammed (Anne)

slammed,
Your H is behaving in many ways like mine. They both move out but then they still do things like if the two of you were together...
They want to do their own thing but have you there...

I think in some sense because we are the once who were left, we have to deal with that pain that is so drastic that we in some sense reach that level of thinking of our lives seperate from them and being able to walk away (NC and all) sooner then they do...

Don't get me wrong, they did leave, but leaving and NC are different things...

My H wanted the two of us to be 'just friends'. And now, 1 month after I finally said, fine, this is it...(and I have basically stopped any R/M talk and am getting to the point where I can accept my life without him and move on)...here he is calling me lets go to a movie, lets watch a movie at your house, I saw a store downtown I like...we should go there, I almost bought this book for you (He did not have enough cash) and so on....

This is not 'just friends'....He just wanted me to stop talking about the 2 of us working on the M and him moving back in...basically just wanted me to leave him alone to do what he wants but still be there in all the "nice" ways that I have always been there for him....

Now, I basically am in a place where I know I can walk away and I will be fine...I just don't want to fight him anymore, I am tired, and I like that I can finally function again... I don't know how long this will last, this stage of us "dating" ....who knows...

Anyway, I think your H is acting similarly to mine, wanting to have lunch...and such...

They just want it all, no responsibility and all the good stuff from the M/R....

Daisy

Milk,
How is it going....just checking <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />...

Daisy

Hi Daisy and Slammed! Thanks for popping in!

I was gone on a business trip yesterday and today, and could not log in. I missed talking to you guys....

Despite how I was holding up over the weekend (I was doing relatively okay), I was feeling very sad during the whole trip. H and I used to travel quite a bit, and just being in a hotel room reminds me of how we used to go on vacation. Also, when we were living together, the first thing I used to do when I was on a business trip was to call H before taking off, call again soon as getting in a hotel, and call right before going to bed. Now I do not have the person I used to call. That was very hard. So I ended up calling two of my girlfriends and spending good 4 hours or so all together. Oh I hope I had enough minutes left on my cell...

Actually, let me go back to Friday. On Friday, H emailed me saying he would go pick up DS3 b/c he wants to spend the entire weekend. I was out for lunch with my girlfriend and did not see the email right away. Then H called and left me a voice mail regarding his email. I got both messages when I got back from lunch. So I called him back. I told him (1) the entire weekend means two nights and he always get two nights (Saturday and Sunday nights), but if he includes Friday night, that would be three nights. (2) either way, I already have a plan for Friday night with DS3.

H said "well if you already have a plan, you have a plan". Did not make much fuss on this one. I thik also b/c he knew that he would get to spend Monday night with DS3 as well (since I would be gone).

Monday night, I had a friend family over at my place. They have a 4-year-old boy, and I thought he and DS3 could play together. They had a good time. While we were eating together, the phone rang. I knew it was H, but did not want to answer so let the answering machine pick it up. H left a message for DS3. He said "hi, I guess you guys are out, DS3, this is your Papa, how are you, I miss you, I can't wait to see you, be a good boy and listen to your Mama, be always good to your Mama, okay, and I will come pick you up tomorrow".

Then soon as he hang up, my cell phone rang. It was H. I did not answer. H did not leave a message. Since he only spoke to DS3 on Monday last week (b/c when H called on Wednesday, it was too late and DS3 was already in bed), I guess he really wanted to speak to DS3 directly. Or maybe H was worried that we were at DS3's favorite uncle's house and got jealous and wanted to remind poor little DS3 who his daddy is. Don't know.

Anyway, then Saturday morning, while we were driving (we had a photo studio appointment in the morning, and I told H Friday afternoon when we spoke that we had an appointment in the Sat morning, and when it is done I would call H and H can come pick up DS3), my cell phone rang. It was H. I picked it up.

H was calling from his parents' house, but my in-laws are now in Europe and one of his sisters is house sitting while they are gone, so H must have spent Friday night with his sister. "Hi, where are you?" H asked. "I am driving" I answered, and he asked again "but where ARE you?", so I said (maybe I should have been more mysterious???) "oh, I am driving to the mall b/c we are going to get our pix taken". Then H sounded relieved "oh, okay".

After our photo session, H came, mowed the yard, and left with DS3. While he was in the house, he said he would like to see DS3 more often. So I said "maybe then you can come over during the weekday to have dinner here, so you get to spend time with DS3 while I get to spend time with DS3 as well". To which, H just said "we'll see". H rather wanted to take DS3 out on his own. I did not want H to think the reason I suggested that he stay here to eat with us is b/c I want to spend time with H, that is why I told him I want to spend time with DS3 as well so if we are all here, it is fair. I don't know how he digested my idea.

When he was leaving, he told DS3 "okay, tell Mama you love her and that you would call her tonight". So I was expecting his call. Though I went out. I did not want to be waiting in front of the phone, so went to see my friends. I had a good time.

When I returned home, I was really hoping there would be a message. None. I would not know if H tried to call or not, but I doubt he did.

Then on Sunday, H and DS3 came by to pick up our dog. H told DS3 "tell your Mama to have a safe trip", and DS3 did, and so did H. I was hoping they would call during the day or in the evening, but they didn't so I called on Sunday evening. Again, H told me to have a safe trip.

Monday morning, I was hoping that H would call to let me know how the drop-off went, but he didn't. I called H at night from my hotel. I spoke to DS3 briefly. H asked if I could go pick up DS3 on Tuesday so I said yes.

Tuesday morning at 8:20pm ET, H called on my cell. It is 7:20am CST, so I figured he must have just dropped off DS3 or something. H was surprised and said "oh, I was just going to leave you a message - I didn't think you would be up this early". So I said "it's 8:20am", then H said "oh, I misunderstood, I thought you were behind us (time wise), okay, well, I just wanted to let you know that I put a pullover on DS3 this morning b/c it was cold, but they may take it off during the day when it's warmer, so don't forget that". I said "okay, I will check his cubby, thanks". Then H said "that's all, that is all I needed to tell you". That comment made me sad. Why did he have to say that?

I was depressed and sad the whole day. I was crying on the plane. Then I got home, changed, and decided to go pick up DS3. While I was driving, I just remembered I scheduled our dog's vet visit for tomorrow morning. I was going to ask H to drop off the dog sometime this week or weekend, but now I remembered the appointment, I needed to get the dog tonight. So I called H. He was obviously annoyed by my call. I was trying to be cheerful and pleasant and said "hi, I just realized that the dog has an appointment tomorrow morning for shots. So why don't I just come over to pick him up?" H said "okay, I will be home in 5 to 10 minutes (he was driving as well)".

I got his apartment before H did. I saw him getting out of his car in the parking lot. H avoided looking at me and just said "I'll go up and get the dog". I thought he might just take me upstairs with him, so was secretly disappointed, but did not show it and said okay. H came down with the dog. H said "ask me anytime if you have to go on a trip again", so I said "thank you". H did not look back even ONCE and then went inside the building. SAD.

But I was trying to look at the positive side and thanking God that at least I did not screw up anything (meaning no emotional talk or nothing). Also I really felt that H is not mentally well.

Then I picked up DS3 (he said to me "oh, I though Daddy would come to pick me up", maybe b/c H picked him up yesterday, but the comment hurt me...) and three of us went home. Again, I was very sad and down but tried to see the positive side. Well, at least WE, the three of us, are HOME together.

Then I was trying to cook for DS3 but he said he only wanted some cereal. He did not seem very hungry. I felt it was strange. Then when I put some food in front of him, he said "I want to sleep". When I touched his neck, it was very warm. Also DS3 kept saying he has a tummy ache. I checked his temperature and DS3 had fever! So I gave him some medicine and took him to bed. While I was doing this, the house phone rang. It was H. I told him DS3 has a fever, and H immediately became defensive and said "well, I don't know, he was fine this morning so he must have gotten sick over there at his daycare". He should be worried instead of defending himself! But I did not say anything and just asked DS3 to tell his Papa good night. Then I just hang up. Then immediately H called back and asked how high DS3's temperature was. I told him, and H said "make sure DS3 drinks enough fluid and....", so I told him "DS3 is drinnking, don't worry".

I wonder if and actually HOPE very strongly that H gets scared that every time he takes a big step towards D, something bad happens. The reason is this.

Back in last December, soon after H started to insist that our M is over, DS3 started to get sick all the time. Pretty much throughout December, DS3 was sick. Then on January 25, H contacted a lawyer for the first time and purchased a book about Divorce, then the very next day on the 26th, H was put on probation. H stopped mentioning D b/c he wanted to stay in our house. But behind my back, H sneakly signed up for LOVALIFE, a dating website (but it's a lot more sexual than usual dating site) a few days later. I was furious when I found out about it (H stupidly printed out the receipt and left it at the printer), but H felt no remorse. That night, DS3 came down with a very high temperature of over 106!

H freaked out and we took DS3 to an emergency room. While we were waiting, H apologized to DS3 "I am so sorry DS3, I am doing selfish things and you get sick... this is it, I am done, I cancel the service, I am so sorry baby..."

Then soon as DS3 became okay after the treatment, H was not feeling any remorse again. H did not cancel the service right away. I asked him about is a few days later and H said "oh, okay, it's really not a big deal, but I will cancel it". NOT A BIG DEAL???

Then H continued to do all sorts of sneaky things behind my back. H was looking for an apartment even though he told me he would stay. I got furious and kicked him out. He freaked out, and came back the next morning. We tried, we went to Hawaii, but it did not work out. H moved out.

Then one time we were in the car together b/c I got a flat tire and H had to help me, H told me "kill yourself, if you think you cannot live without me, go ahead!". I was not telling him I wanted to kill myself that time. I said I would not know what to do without him before (several months earlier) however. That weekend, when H returned DS3 home, DS3 threw up in H's car and he got a heat stroke.

Another incident was in August I believe, but when H sent me an email saying "I am moving on from my relationship with you, you just have to accept it". The very next day, H got sick and for two days he threw up.

Then H brought up the mediator issue, and 2 days later we had DS3's birthday party and H was shocked to see how DS3 was MORE attached to his favorite uncle than his own father.

And now this weekend it seemed H really was getting comfortable and feeling good about his decision - and DS3 got sick again.

I wonder if H ever feel guilty. H's dad used to cheat on H's mom, and she died of cancer only at age 30 or so. H was only 22 months old. I remember H used to tell me how he thinks indirecly his father killed his mother.

I am not trying to be superstitious, but honestly, if that works in terms of making H feel guilty, I feel like I welcome anything at this point.... Although I doubt H feels guilty. Now his heart is so hardened, he really does not feel anything.

Sorry my story got SO LONG. Thanks for taking your time to read it!!!

And I agree Daisy, your H and Slammed's H might be twins. At least your Hs' are asking you guys out, I think that is very good. For you two, there is a lot more hope for sure! But I understand, that must be equally or could be more frustrating. Because you may feel there is hope, but if you act upon it, you may push your spouses away..., and you may feel you are "stuck".

I think after you feel that your spouses really DO have strong emotional attachment to you, you should do a 180 or sort of Plan B. In you guys' cases, it seems that might be the best strategy.

Mine is so lost and stubborn...

Hi Milk,
Read your post...

I am sure it is not so easy for your H either...It is easy to walk out the door and insist on wanting seperate live but the reality is much harder....it is not easy to make that next step to D and cutting your partner out of your life....Not easy at all....

You have been dealing with this for some time now....I am so sorry....really....

How are you taking it all these days? He has not discussed the D (I figure) so that is good for you....The two of you have to interact more so due to your son...that must be difficult for you...

How is your life going otherwise? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> ...besides work <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Are you getting out and doing stuff for you? It feels good to do something...I try but I don't over do it...I really don't think to just keep busy busy is the solution, but do something different and go out with friends every now and then is fun....


{{{{{milk}}}}}}

enjoy,
Daisy

Thanks Milk and White Daisy,

White Daisy- I agree- our H's are very much alike. I guess they are the "cake eater" types- they want to have their cake (us) and be able to eat it too (OW) and don't understand that marriage just doesn't work like that !

Don't know if my H calling and wanting to meet for
lunch actually means anything -
I've thought it might be him thinking about what he
will lose if we D, could be him trying to decide
between me and another person, could be him using
it to confirm his decision to split up, but don't
have any way to know what he thinks or feels-

When we met for lunch on Tues., I tried to sound
cheerful and upbeat, and tried to sound like I
was doing well, staying busy, and enjoying myself.
(without overdoing it and sounding phoney).
He was quiet, seemed tired, and kind of grouchy.
(not towards me, just in general). His moodiness
reminded me that he has just been going through
"withdrawal" after he went "cold turkey" off the
AD's he'd been on for the past three months-

I asked how his job was going, if he'd heard
anything further from his Mom (Dad is having health
problems), and how renovations were coming on our
other house, and just got short, concise answers
like "fine".

Since there was no apparent reason for him wanting
to meet, I decided to just ask him- and said "why
did you want to meet me for lunch ?", to which he
said "does it really matter ?"
(I don't know what that was supposed to mean, except
that maybe he doesn't know himself )????

Haven't heard from him since, but he did tell me
he would be out of town from Wed- Sat for a business
function. I went with him to this event last year
and we had a great time, so I feel bad that he's
there this year without me. (And of course, I wonder
if he took anyone with him ?)
It makes me feel bad to think of him there, and kind
of hope it reminds him of us being there together and
might make him feel bad too !!

Had one strange thing happen earlier this week that
I wanted to pass on-
I got a phone call Tues after I got home for work, and
it went like this:
ME- "hello"
CALLER- (female) "May I please speak with Mr. WH"
ME- (assuming it was a salesperson/solicitor and giving
my standard answer) "He's not available, may I take
a message".
CALLER- "Would there be a good time to reach him ?"
ME- "No specific time, may I take a message ?"
CALLER- "Well, is there another number or way to
reach him ? "
ME- "I would be glad to take your name and number and
ask him to call you " (obviously, I wasn't going to
give out his cell number or let on that he's not staying
at home)
CALLER- "It's in regards to a personal matter, so
is there some other way I can reach him ?" (sounded
kind of distressed)
ME- "I can either leave a message or pass on your name
and number to him"
CALLER- "Thanks, anyway"
End
I guess it could have been something innocent, like a
sales person from one of his credit cards who couldn't
give any info to me or something like that, but it made
me feel really weird, and my mind started racing with
all kind of strange thoughts- ????

One thing I thought of was that it possibly could have
been the Mother of his youngest daughter. He dated her
two times back in 1995 (prior to us dating) and didn't
know he had the daughter until the child was over 3.
He has never seen or talked to the Mother since their
brief "relationship", never has seen or talked to the
child- his only dealings have been doing the legal
paperwork, sending correspondence regarding insurance,
etc. and sending child support. Wondered if she might
have wanted to talk to him if there was an emergency
or problem with the child and didn't know if I knew
about it ? All my other thoughts were weird things
like wondering if it could have been some OW who was
snooping on WH and trying to find out if he had a wife
at home or something ??????

I tried to track the call back with "Last call return"
(we don't have Caller ID) but it said the number could
not be given out, so wasn't able to find out anything.
Guess there's no way to know, unless someone calls
again-


Milk- Glad you did okay over the weekend. I think
weekends are hard, as don't have work and activities
to keep my mind from thinking about everything, worrying,
feeling sad.
I can also relate to your feeling bad when you were
traveling. I recently flew to visit my Sister, and
getting packed and ready to go, staying in a hotel
overnight, and flying alone really got to me and
made me feel especially alone. I used to travel often
when I was single, and didn't mind at all, but since
being married and all my trips being with H, it was
tough.

It does seem like your H is keeping connection with you
too- just the way he calls more than necessary in regards to your son and arrangements, the way he wants to know what
you are doing, where you are, etc-
The way that your son has gotten sick when H acts up
is really interesting too- almost like he has very strong
instincts of knowing something is wrong with his father
and has a "psychosomatic" reaction to it. Yes, it would
be great it that was an incentive for H to get his act
together !!

My H is now out of town, and I never do hear from him
on weekends anyway. Kind of makes me feel/wonder that
he is too busy with his "swinging bachelor life" or
is with some OW and can't call. Even made me have a
weird thought that he feels like he can't cheat on a
OW, even though I'M his wife !!!!

I am trying to keep busy- I keep the house and yard
very nice (I enjoy it, it gives me something to do,
and ultimately if we have to sell the house, it will
be helpful for that too) so I plan to do house and
yardwork this weekend. I try to make some plans with
friends and family too. This weekend I would also
like to do some "girl stuff" like having a manicure/
pedicure, face mask, etc. and getting organized with
things like doing a better diet, exercise plan, taking
vitamins, getting more sleep, getting my fall ward-
robe organized, clothes ironed, shoes polished, etc. !!

My birthday is Monday and I'm anxious/nervous to see
if H even remembers. Guess I need to expect that he
won't do anything and just try to make it a good day
without him. Maybe if I get all my tasks and organizing
done by the weekend, I can feel like it's a fresh
start of a new year, with or without him.

Slammed

Hi Daisy and Slammed,

Look!!! I was at work and had access to this board, but MANAGED not to log on till now! This has never happened in the past! Usually I don't log on b/c either I don't have access to it or b/c I am busy with DS3. When I am alone and in front of my computer, I have been on the board pretty much all day.

I had a IC session yesterday. My counselor told me "I know you do not want to hear this, but I don't think your H is coming back. It really does not sound like he is coming back. So let's think about this - what needs was H meeting? Can you get your needs met by your family and friends? Also, try this. If you think you would start thinking about your H and marriage, tell yourself 'I will think about it at 8PM tonight' or something, and keep doing things you need to do".

So I was trying to keep myself busy and set aside time to think about my M to H (I decided I will allow myself to think about H and get sad while I am commuting and after DS3 went to bed at night). I am glad I did not think about him during the day today.

I have to make baby steps.

Milk

Sounds like a plan. Take care of you and ds3 -great age he is now. do you have any family close to you.