Thanks Eav and mntony.

H's one of sisters called him tonight b/c she was furious how H lied about my ability to be a good parent. H has told everyone in his family that I am a great mother and DS3 is happy with me. H told me this as well. So she was like "what the h*** with the statement in the paper about Milk not being a fit parent???" H hung up on her. Then she tried again. They spoke briefly and he said "oh, of course Milk is a good mother, but that is just what my lawyer said we do, to put in everything, and her lawyer should know that, he should be able to explain that to her".

Why can't he have the integrity to say no, he does not want to put in any untruthful statement?

I loved this man. I trusted him. Even after all of this, I always believed that he has the sweet heart.

H's other two sisters came by today to my house to be with me. That was nice. I was able to force myself to eat as well. They apologized to me "sorry our brother is such an a**". That meant a lot to me. Not b/c H is an big a** right now, but that they are supporting me. That meant a lot to me. His dad also offered to me that he would call H if I want him to, but I said no, do not call, since H would take it negatively again thinking I have turned H's family against him.

H's family says they do not recognize H. They do not know who this current H is. I feel the same. I don't know this mean, cold, vindictive person.

H has been calling here several times, but I do not want to talk to him. I have nothing to say to him. H is probably mad, b/c I spoke to his sisters. He feels that I have bad mouthed him to his sisters. They told me "no, Milk, you did not turn us against him, he did it to himself", but that is not how H perceives. I do not want to talk about D, I do not want to get emotional and get hurt again. And I can't possibly pretend nothing is happening and talk to H about weather..., so no, I can't answer his calls. H has DS3 tonight and I really want to hear my dear son's voice, but I will break down so no I cannot speak.

H called like three times at home and another three times on my cell last night, and called this morning again on my cell but that time he left me a message (he was letting DS3 to say he loves me and will see me tonight - by the way, the way H sounded was as if nothing serious is happening, and really pissed me off).

Now my office phone has been ringing, but no messages, so I know it is H. I really do not want to discuss D with him. And the fact he is not leaving me a message suggests that his lawyer must have advised him not to leave any messages b/c I may use that against him or something. So I don't think H is calling to be nice or anything (if that is the case, he could leave me a message). I am not emotionally ready to speak to him. But should I answer his calls? He would most definitely get very angry if I keep ignoring his calls. Would it bad in the D process?

Also, H might be scared a bit that now I may be upset about how H lied about me (that I am not a good mother, that I have repeatedly threatened H, etc.), and may use some info about him (such as his addictions, drug use, his arrest, etc.) against him, and H may want to push a button to soften up my heart or something (therefore letting DS3 tell me that he loves me this morning. Now I really can't trust his motive anymore. H is for sure not going to be nice to me for the sake of me - H is only worried about himself.

How should I handle this?

Hi Milk,

I'm sorry.

I think I said some 10 pages ago to start documenting his problems with drugs, alcohol, arrests, and the S/A meetings. Start doing that now.

I'd not speak A WORD to him... send/tell all of this new info to your lawyer. NOTHING good can be gained by you speaking to him. Remember, he could be recording you, too.

It's hard to know if he was really a creep all this time, and there's not much to be gained by dwelling on it now. DONT let him get to you any more than he has, DONT speak to him (emails only, very dry and professional), and document all calls to his child (so he cant say you prevented him from speaking with him). Start a log book, that can be turned over to the court. Everything, every hang-up, every conversation, every every.... ok?

I am very sorry. I'd thump him for ya, if I could! Hang in there! Take advantage of all the support you can, document everything, and turn it all over to the lawyer. Please be very careful... - Dru

Thanks Dru. I just simply relied to his email by saying "yes, I will pick up DS3 tonight". Nothing more.

I have all the emails and letters he has sent - in which he is mentioning his own addiction problems, so I can prove that H is not a perfect saint like the D paper says. Also his arrest record should be still there so my lawyer can look it up.

Also, I have initiated many of H's visitations to DS3 by asking "would you like to spend some time with DS3 this weekend" in my email (I have done so b/c I had a feeling H might turn into a monster and starts lying that I had blocked his way to see his son or something, so instead of asking over the phone, I intentionally emailed him in the past), so H should not be able to say I have prevented him from meeting his son.

I do not want to get into a nasty & ugly legal battle, but at the same time, I will not LOSE and can't lose this battle! I have tried to be nice and did not force him to pay for the house...., and this is how H pays me back??? I gave him love letters, poem, but he portraited me as a monster basically in the D paper. Even if that is H's lawyer's idea, he should have had the honor and dignity to say "no, I do not wish to put in untruthful statements".

No, I will not speak to him. I do not want to speak to him. H this morning sent me an email (after so many phone calls):
-------------
Milk,

DS3 had a good time – I just want to make sure will you be picking him up tonight or do you want me too?

My sister called me yesterday and was mad – please do not get family involved – this is between you and me.

We need to start addressing how we will manage DS3 and split things up so that we can move on with our lives. The best way I think is for us to talk and for both of us to be reasonable.

I am very sorry about the way you feel. I Feel bad about this too

H
---------

He feels bad about this??? SURE! I did not ask his siter to call him. I cannot control her. Besides, his family IS involved already. In the very beginning, H threatened his mother by saying "let me move back to this house, otherwise I will kill myself". Then later everytime I spoke to his mom, H told me "leave her alone, she is not part of this". H's mom said "too late, H is the one who threatened ME and I am not an outsider". Althogh when H's father asked me if I wanted him to call his son, I said no, don't do that, because H will only get mad at me (which is exactly what happened last night after his sister called. But I honestly had no idea she was going to call H).

H has really become a self-centered monster. So sad.

You dont have to listen to him about contacting his family. If they are part of your support group, and they help with DS, who cares what he thinks?

He doesnt want them shaming him for his life. Too bad, huh? He choose his actions, he can live with the fallout. If you have to, he has to... right?

Dont comment at all when he makes statements like that (about who you contact). Just ignore it like it wasnt there, and respond to the childcare issues, only.


The BEST way is email. Have everything in writing. Keep correspondence short.

"Mr.SM, Let's please continue to corrinate DS Visitation via email, as to avoid any confusion. Thank you."

Have you spoken to your lawyer since he filed? Do you really have a lawyer?

You dont have to get nasty or ugly, just calm, dry and smart. Crisp. Save any emotions for later... they'll only be used against you.

Yes, it is very sad. I am very sorry - Dru

Milk,

Listen to Dru, do not call him or get into any conversations with him now. We always want to think the best of people but he may be recording you!

Use the email and just talk about your son's visitations as you did. I really don't see the need to talk about the 'stuff' you want to split. THat is what the lawyer is for (or just use email again).

I am sorry Milk, but I really do not trust your H right now. I personally feel the same way as you. He should have told his Lawyer, 'Milk is a good mother, I don't want anything saying otherwise in this document'. But he did not do that. He even admitted to his sister that he lied! "my lawyer told me to do it". This is not an excuse! I am so angry for you milk.

Don't pay attention to the email. It is just his way of trying to feel less quilt. He is very naive if he things that the family will not get involved. You two have a son, so family will always be involved! Besides, you know you did not talk to his sister, so you don't need to explain yourself to him. He is not going to listen and it will just escalate to an argument that he can use against you.

Take care Milk.
Daisy

Milk,
I'm so sorry you are having to deal with this, especially
with H being a real jerk about it all !
You know, I don't think your H really thinks you have been an "unfit" mother at all, don't think he was with you for money, and think he knows perfectly well that you have been fair, reasonable, caring and courteous despite all his issues and problems, but I think his behavior speaks volumes of a person who is acting of our fear, cowardice and
the influence of mental/emotional issues. I wouldn't let
anything he put in the paperwork phase you at all, because
you know it's not true (as do all of us, and even your H).

I think everyone is right in saying that you should keep your cool, go "dark" to H, document EVERYthing, and work carefully with your lawyer to make sure they know all the
details of H's history, as well as all the current events.
You've handled everything with class, fairness, dignity,
and courtesy all along, and can just continue to do the same- you don't have to stoop to the level of H, or reply
to his stupid comments. You are the one with everything
going for you and don't owe H anything- he has dug himself
into his hole.
I think you are also entitled to talk to anyone you want-including his family. As has been said, they are YOUR
family too, and due to DS3, you will always have a connection with them. You have not been asking them to
call, or trying to incite any kind of problems, and you
aren't responsible for them calling him or his guilt.

Don't know how things will go with my H, but feel that he
will be the same way if we end up going the D route.
He has told me at times that he's not "trying to be a jerk"
or "make things difficult", but then when mad has mentioned
wanting certain things we own, thinking he should get a share of my 401K, etc.
At my end, nothing really new to report (see my last update on this thread from Sunday). H called and left a message
yesterday to tell me he had tried to call his daughter and
couldn't reach her, just in case she called our house trying to get in touch with him, and he asked about the dog (as always). Don't know why, but he left the message not only on my work voicemail, but also at our house, and on
my cell !

Keep taking care of you Milk. You are in my thoughts and prayers.
Your friend,
Slammed

Just spoke with my lawyer. This stupid TRO is going to cost me several thousand dollars if we try to PROVE that what H is saying in the D paper is a lie and I have not threatened him and I am coming back with our son. What H is thinking? I know he wants assurance that we are coming back, but we ARE and I don't know how else to say it. Just because H has been dishonest and lied to me over and over, I cannot believe he is doing this to me b/c he cannot "trust" me. As far as I am concened, I did not lie to H intentionally ever! It is almost a joke that he does not "trust" me. I should be saying that!!!

So I am really not sure what is going to happen. Several thousand dollars, oh boy, we can deposit that to DS3' college account instead! H is an idiot!!!!!!!!!

Milk,
I am sorry you are hurting...I don't understand your H at all. First he wanted a mediator and now he is doing the 180...the selfishness of these spouses really is beyond ones understanding...

Just don't get into it with him Milk. Really, I think the only reason he is calling you now is to justify his actions...by arguing with him, it plays into his hands...so hang in there and go dark...yes, do keep a journal regarding your son...as suggested above....

I hope you are holding up ok...as much as possible...
I just cannot even imagine going through this now. I am so not ready. I have in some sense convinced myself that H will not file (no cash), but your situation has somewhat awaken me, since he could always borrow money from his family that is always more than happy to help him out. I have been restless these last few days and somewhat panicky...Just wish my H would reconsider...I want to spend some time with him...have not seen him for a week(I know not that long) and somehow I feel all restless again...boy all that streangth I had just a few weeks ago seems to be gone for now...

I hope you are doing better than yesterday...
Best,
Daisy

I am trembling. It is getting very nasty. Yesterday I spoke to him "I know this is not your intention, you just want to make sure we are coming back, and I can give you a copy of my parents' tickets if you would like"

H was listening, but said "okay, I will talk to my lawyer". The minute he said, I knew it would be BAD. Because his lawyer does not know me and decided that I am such a bad, untrustable nasty bi***, no good advice would come out of his lawyer's mouth.

Bingo. This morning I received an email from H. He said "I decided to listen to my lawyer's advice. I cannot trust you and I can see you staying overseas just to get at me. Please do not make any overseas trips until everything is settled (we get divorced). I am ready to drag this as long as it is necessary for me to get a fair share of our assets".

I cannot believe this! Initially, he said we could go to my home country, and he said he would give me the house, that is why I have been paying for mortgage for 6 months!!!

His lawyer is evil and H is listening to him! I feel like my life is ending...

Clearly because he is so totally untrustworthy, he sees everything through that lens.

Talk to your lawyer immediately about the fact that you have been paying for the mortgage for the past 6 months, and how the finances should be handled now that he is handling things this way. The reality is that your WH has decided to hire a shark of a lawyer, and there is a good chance the house will now end up having to be sold if the divorce goes through so that the assets can be split. Have your lawyer help you figure out the best way to position yourself to protect yourself at this point in time.

It is stupid that it comes down to this. Unfortunately, so many times it does.

Milk,
So sorry your WH is being such a total jerk and has a lawyer
to match. Almost sounds like it is the lawyer pushing the
suspicious, paranoid, overly-demanding agenda- and H is
going along with it. I think some of it is just legal
bullying and scare tactics !
From several friends who have been divorced, it seems like this is kind of the "norm", where the lawyers go "for
broke" initially, but then it gets trimmed down and settled as things proceed.
Don't know about Illinois, but here (Colorado), the judges
want everything settled and agree upon before you step
into the court. They require mediation if you have issues
that can't be settled between the two parties. If you have
items you came into the marriage with, you keep them.
If you have items you received as a gift or inheritance
(even a gift from the spouse) you keep them.
The items received or purchased together are either split
up amicably by both parties agreement, or they have to be
sold and the proceeds split.
I know of several people who kept their homes by "buying
out" the other party, which might be possible in your case?

When a D is filed here, both parties are immediately under
a restraining order that prevents either from draining
bank accounts, running up big charges, cancelling insurance,
changing locks, or removing children from the vicinity.
Is your H just insisting you don't travel now, or he doesn't
want you to be able to ever take H out of the country ?
I don't think that will happen once things are settled.

Just keep taking care of you and maybe avoid talking to
H at all- unless very brief, business-like, and in writing
so you have documentation.
Hang in there.
Slammed

Milk,

Hang in there...sounds like things with H are getting from bad to worse...

I really hope you have a good lawyer. You H is not thinking clearly now, and is letting his lawyer influence his decision...The fact is that your H is worried you may leave with your son and the reason he is worried is exactly because he has treated you like crup and worries you will retaliate! You are better than that but your H does not see it because he is looking at you as he would look at himself! He knows he has been a jerk and knows you know he has been a jerk! So, he is afraid now that him being a jerk will bite him in the a$$ (excuse my language) and so he is ultimately an even bigger a$$! I believe he loves his son and is worried, but if he even understood that not all people behaive the way he does, than he would see that you would not hurt him like this....But sadly enough he is not capable of that thought, since he is a jerk and judges others by what he really is capable off.
Sadly, that is the hardest thing to accept, that the person you love or loved is capable of such action...

Protect yourself and your son the best you can Milk...This is clearly a sign that you are the better parent...and your son needs you in his life...

Daisy

Thank you all. I am just really depressed and sad and mad and confused and scared.

I talked to my lawyer, but given such an jerk lawyer H has, it is possible that he would demand I pay for his legal costs, so he can prolong this as long as he wants. My lawyer agrees. But he does not think the income difference between us is that great, but who knows. This really stinks! So he can do whatever he wants, even to get arrested, and wants to divorce, and can go after our assets and claim he wants more, and then I need to pay for his legal costs? This is just too great. I am speechless. What kind of legal system do we have here???

Get another lawyer who has some ****s! Pitbull attorneys do really well to make it hard for an aggressive wayward to get his way.

Yes! A big part of what is going on right now is intimidation. They are trying to worry you so much that you could really lose a lot in court, so that you will just settle for a lot less out of court. Your lawyer is doing his job in that he's telling you the possibilities, BUT.... either he's not stressing what is really likely in this case, or you are a worrier. From seeing your posts for a while, I would guess it is a lot of the latter though.

Your lawyer said that that the income difference between you is not that great. Granted, you are in a different state, but I know my lawyer told me that the income difference has to be pretty significant for it to really make a difference in the settlement. It will make some difference in child support, but that should be pretty much a standard formula - it is in most states. But if there isn't a huge difference in incomes, it's highly unlikely he would get alimony or anything. And it also means that assets would be split pretty much equally.

The exception with that would come in with the house, and how things are handled with your child.

Oh, and he can ask for whatever he wants, but that doesn't mean he's going to get it. Why should you have to pay for his legal costs? Don't you have your own in all this? Why can't you turn around and say you want him to pay for yours, and expect them to be paid? It doesn't make sense. I don't see that happening. Unless there are some extraordinary circumstances (which there aren't here), each person is responsible for their own legal expenses. Now that can become a negotiable point, and something you could agree to down the line in exchange for something else, but it isn't like some judge is just going to say "MS, you have to pay for WHs lawyer!" It doesn't work that way. They ask for the moon. You say no to EVERYTHING when they do that. It's stupid, and it costs way too much in legal fees. Mediation and negotiation without lawyers, and using the lawyers just to write up the final agreements is what makes the most sense, but he seems to be being obstinate.

You may even want to think about at some point talking to him, telling him that what he is doing really is not the wisest way of going about things. That no, you don't want the divorce, and that working through an agreement has been something that has been difficult for you. You have needed time to process all this, and he has not really given you the time you've needed. And that the demands his lawyer is making are unrealistic, and that fighting this out through the lawyers with such unrealistic demands as a starting point is going to be lengthy and therefore costly. That if he would have been more patient, and given you time to adjust to the changing situation, and realized that he had a lot more time to process everything than you've had, the mediation could have worked eventually, without costing the two of you nearly so much, both monetarily and emotionally.

If you do approach him, it may be better to do it in writing. Make sure you don't do anything except talk about how much it is going to cost going the adversarial route he has chosen.

I know getting through this is tough. You need to be tough too. And try to realize - it won't be as bad as you are fearing. But you need to get tough, and get mad! How can he treat you this way, after all your years together, and with you being the mother of his child and all. It's not right, so don't let him get away with it.

Thanks for your encouragement. One of H's sisters called him last night, and apparently H acknowledged that he does NOT want to drag this out (as he claimed in his email yesterday morning), as it would cost him too much. Also he said (although this one I doubt he is speaking the truth) he had NO CHOICE but to say there has been mental cruelty, since I did not cheat, did not physically abuse, etc., and he claimed he had to "check" one of the boxes for a reason to want a divorce. But I know this is a BS, he could always say "unreconcilable differences". H told his sister if he could, he would ask his lawyer to change the wording, but I doubt he would actually do that. This is one of H's empty promises. He is really good at making people believe that his true intention is very pure and nice by promising many things. But in reality, he rarely keep his words, so I am not buying into this one.

Still, it was nice to at least hear that H admitted that I am a great mother and I would have a custody, and also to know that H is feeling the "financial pain" by doing this D work now.

So the conversation with my SIL did make me feel a little bit better. Also, I spoke to my lawyer this morning and it seems I can still take this trip with DS3, as long as I pledge my house as a collateral in case I do not return.

I told my lawyer that is fine, since we ARE coming back, but asked him to make sure there would be no loophole (such as if DS3 gets sick and we need to come back 3 days later, would H take the possesion of our house??? what if our flight gets cancelled due to bad weather???, etc.) that H can use against me.

So from the lowest point I was at yesterday morning, it seems like an improvement. But now H wants a half of our house, and when his sister pointed out the fact he has not paid the mortgage for the past 6 months, he said initially it does not matter, but then later on said "fine, then I can subtract the amount I owe from 50% of our proceeds from the sale of our house".

Now, this is just a promise up in the air, so I asked my lawyer this morning that going forward H would pay half of the mortgage. Though given the fact H has a rent to pay, I am not too sure if I could demand a half of our mortgage.

Well, from "I feel guilty, I do not want anything, I will leave you everything", I would lose a lot by giving H the half of our house. Since I made a huge down payment on the house, it would cost me $100K more. But I guess I can't really fight for this, since this is considered marital assets. Oh, I thought I was nice for our FAMILY to put down a large down payment from my savings!!! I should have never trusted him!!!

But okay, fine, I need to let go. It's only money. Yes, it hurts, but I have to let go.

I was crying last night and this morning, realizing that it is truly over between us. And it makes me really sad when I think of how well H played this game so that he gets pretty much a lot of things on his wish list while destroying his family. And he is the one who got arrested and could not hold onto his job for more than two years. He is the one with addictions. Yet I have to suffer. I have to feel like a failure and his family would probably always feel that "maybe" I was a biggest b**** and that is why H wanted to run away from, even though they are supporting me now.

H is very good at acting like an saint. And after all, they are H's family, not mine. Even after he got arrested, still his father does not believe H has an sex addiction. His sister does not believe in this either.

I know, it should not matter what they think of me. But it really DOES hurt, since I do not have my family here, and DS3 may feel later on I was the biggest monster and his daddy HAD to escape from me. Then he would hate me and DS3 may leave me as well when he turns a teen. Still, I cannot bad mouth H, so cannot tell DS3 about H's arrest, so I cannot prove DS3's father had problems. THis is so fair.

My emotions are all over. I was upset when I wrote this morning, but now those emotions are taken over by great sadness.

I am having a truly hard time accepting that our M is over. Darn, I am so stubborn or what?? Why do I keep hoping that H would change his mind?? He is gone! He does not love me anymore! I have to accept that! It's incredibly hard. What's wrong with me???

MS:

You give your Wayward Cheating S-Bag Husband (sorry, my tourettes is acting up again <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />)too much credit. The acting of a "Saint" isn't likely fooling anyone. Maybe on the surface, but not where it counts. I would give people a little more credit than this. Your mind is surely playing tricks on you. Your WH's family "knows" in their heart of hearts what he is about. They may deny his addictions, and the like...BUT THEY KNOW...Trust me they know.

You don't have to worry about badmouthing your WH to your son regarding his arrest. Just tell the truth...no sugar coating, or embellishment needed....it will always set you free. You don't have to try and protect your WH anymore.

The great thing about life is that it is so cyclical.....it is a cliche' but the "coming around ALWAYS goes around"...it has to...it is a principle of life.

Chin up....This too shall pass. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Sour <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />