Milk,
There is nothing wrong with you... You are experiencing loss and it is hard to accept that he is gone...

I understand that. I ask myself these same questions! Accepting the facts is not easy...and it will take time...
You had a rough week and it is taking its toll on you but it will pass...you will make it through...

I am sure you feel like you are back at square one but you are not...you are way father...it is just hard right now but you will pull through, you know that.

I am also having a hard time accepting what has happened to us for some reason ...just been feeling kind of low resently... It helps me to think of our life and see what my H was like and what I was like and look at it now with open eyes....there were issues and like you said on another thread, your H was not always a saint....That is true...there were good times and there were bad times...You are learning a lot and hopefully will be able to give more to the next R (somewhere down the line)...and you'll be happy again...

Milk, sorry if I has harsh in my last post to you...I guess I was a bit angry at my own situation at the time...did not mean to take it out on your H....

Anywho...

Take care,
Daisy

Thanks lemonman.


I did believe in this, and think still do, but right now I do not know what to think. I am not saying that I want a revenge, but I do want H to feel bad and understand what he has put me through. Also, I really do hope one day H realizes how much he hurt our little boy. And I hope H realizes that D is not just between him and me, like he said in his email. D involves everyone: our son, his family, my family, and our mutual friends. I hope he someday understands that.

Thanks Daisy, and do not worry about what you said about my H. You were not being too harsh. I am sorry you are down. Hearing depressing stories (like mine..., sorry!) depress you, I know this. When you keep hearing "success" stories, you get really encouraged. So it is possible you are feeling down lately b/c of this.

Thank you all for your support. I really need you all.

Love,
Milk

Milk,
No your story does not get me down....I miss my H these days...
I don't know how to get over missing him...I try not to think about him but it is so hard...

I don't know if I told you but he came over a week ago at 4am and woke me up by knocking on my bedroom door...then we had a nice day the following day...and then the next day he did a 180 on me and I have not seen him since...I feel kind of angry at times about it...He just came into my life again for his own needs and then just as quick disappeared...

I invited him for a movie on Monday but he said he was tired etc... and now I have not talked to him since...
I am sad to think that I have to work really hard not to call him and I really don't imagine he is doing the same...He is over me and that hurts a lot...Anyway, that is what has got me down...

He seemed to be wanting to be part of my life and as soon as I started to have some new hope ... poof he is gone...

I sit here and read other people's stories and I actually feel better when I read it because I know I am not alone in hurting...and we all here are trying hard to support each other and that is wonderful...I know I can count on some support here....

You are right. D does involve everyone...It is not just between you and your H...your son is involved because he gets effected by D...your H can be naive sometimes...

Daisy

(((Milkshake)))

I wish I had something wise to say that would ease your pain. But your situation scares me, I am afraid that is where I will be in a week or a month. I miss my H very much, I hate it for everyone that he is so lost right now. I have no doubt, that at some point in his life, he will realize that he turned his back on the one person that truly loved him.

But, I am powerless ove people, places and things. I write little stuff all over to remind me of this. On my desk now is, "I cannot save my M by myself, but I can save my children". It is so hard to explain something to the children that I don't understand myself.

When WH is nasty to me, it is easier than when he is kind. The kindness reminds me of my H and just hurts me more.

I am so sorry that your situation has taken this turn. ((MS and son))

Milk,
Glad you are getting support from SIL- and that she does
know the truth "straight from the horse's mouth (your H)
regarding the paperwork and his opinion of you as a great
Mother, etc. Although it's too bad your H and his lawyer
didn't have the "guts" to put down more truthful statements on the paperwork, it sounds like it's not really going to
have any bearing on things or make much difference in the
long run, since you are going to get custody, etc.
I strongly agree with Lemonman, that your H's family
undoubtedly does know he has issues/problems/addictions,
but don't want to admit or acknowledge it. He probably
showed signs of these things even before you were together !

Is the house just in your name, or both ? If just yours,
and you purchased/put down the big payment, seems like you
would get credit for this amount whether you "buy out" your
H, or if you sell it and "split" the proceeds. Too bad if H is feeling some financial crunch- he has put himself in that situation and should have to pay on joint bills, regardless of rent or other bills he has himself.
Do you want to keep your house, or would you rather sell it and get a new place for DS3 and yourself ?

I think that feeling sad, mad, hurt, frustrated, betrayed, disappointed, confused, and scared are all totally normal
and that you will go back and forth between moods for a long time. I do the same myself, while in this "limbo" mode with H, and my IC has said it is fine to just "go" with the mood I am feeling, letting myself feel however I do, and knowing it will again change. She has said that the end of
a relationship is much like a death, so we go through a
grieving process that is much the same.

I definitely don't think you have any reason to feel down
on yourself- or to think anyone else will either. Your
H, his family, your family, friends, and MB friends all know the TRUTH. I think just continuing to be a great Mom,
being honest, and supportive to DS3 will be all he needs-
when he's old enough he will realize the truth himself,
without your having to ever say a negative word about H.

No new developments with me. H still calls periodically
to ask about the dog, a bill, or in regards to his daughter.
(he's been trying to call her and can't reach anyone).
Seems like his contact is getting a bit more frequent
and he has not filed the D paperwork (which I think has
actually "expired" now and would have to be re-done).
However, nothing else has changed- he has not said anything
about having changed his mind and wanting to work on things ,hasn't started back on new meds or counseling, hasn't said he doesn't want to sell the house. (In our case we jointly own the house. H has been continuing to pay on it and all joint bills while we've been seperated, but has said he wants to sell it as soon as some minor repairs and projects are completed. I love the house and would keep it for myself and the dog, but can't afford it by myself.)

Take good care of you, and hang in there. Slammed

Jean..

I so understand...H left me a nice message on my answering machine on F and it just made me cry...the way he said my name was too painful...the memories...when will the pain go away!

Of course, now I have not heard from him for several days......

Daisy

Thank you all for your encouragement and support.

H called me at work today. I haven't answered any of his calls in the past several days, but I was caught off guard. My work phone does not have the caller-ID, so I thought it could be my lawyer and w/o thinking, I just picked up the phone.

H apologized for the whole thing and said "I am so sorry how the papers were written. If I had my own way, it would have been different. Of course you are a great mother, and I would be the first person to testify that. Let's just get over this, let's settle. Just give me a half of the house and we'll settle. I need to focus on myself. I need to start from scratch. I think I have made a lot of progress in my sex addiction part, but I still need to work on myself and I have to become a happy person. If I become a happy person, I can make people around me happy as well. We need to move on. Let's settle"

Now, while I was quite emotional and was happy to hear what he had to say, now am wondering if this is AGAIN his way of manipulation. If he really wants to settle, all he has to do is to tell his lawyer to write up a new agreement and asks us to sign. Why is he trying to negotiate over the phone? I am not going to put down whatever he demanded on the paper, b/c then I am risking that later on H could counter bargain with more stuff on the paper.

H mentioned that now his lawyer knows about H's arrest, and apparently his lawyer told him that it would cost him quite a bit if we have to fight, since H's arrest will not look very good.

I wonder H is calling me now b/c he is scared that he won't be able to get 50% of the house or whatever, then is trying to "lock" me in using his usual "playing cute and humble" tricks???

I have been hurt and betrayed so many times that now I am not sure what to believe. I think I am going to tell my lawyer what kind of conversation that took place today, and will ask what he thinks of.

Isn't it so sad that after 15 years together, you can't even trust each other?

Milk,
You don't know what he is doing and you cannot even begin to guess...it sounds to me like you don't trust him and if that is what your gut tells you then GO WITH IT...

It may not be a trick...yet you don't trust him so just go via the lawyers and be fair...as long as you are fair you will not regrett anything you do now...do what you can live with....

You are not being 'mean' by not agreeing to do what he wants and that is to suddenly work it out over the phone....I cannot help but think your H is using your pain to get thinkgs done his way (he may not even realize he is doing it)....

BUt think about it Milk...He called you a bad mother on a LEGAL document...what does it matter what he sais over the phone...it's his word against yours in court...so all the judge will go by then is what is on the LEGAL document...
If I was you I would be angry right now and no I would not negotiate over the phone! (at least I want to believe that I would be angry if H attacked my character in such a manner)....Milk, he went over the line...it is a different think to leave your spose...he can argue it is for his happiness and there is nothing 'morally wrong' in that statement...but to call you a bad mother and then say 'the lawyer made me do it' that is so morally wrong!!

I hope your weekend goes better now...I really do...

Daisy

Hi Daisy,

It was a hard week and the weekend was tough as well. But I survived.

You are right, and I have spoken to many people over the weekend. They all agreed that H cannot be trusted and he would say or do anything to get "his way" at this point. He really does not have any honor or dignity whatsoever.

H sent me a couple of pictures of DS3 yesterday afternoon (I just saw them in the office this morning). This is obvious attempt of H to "soften" me up. H has plenty of opportunities to send me pictures of DS3 since he left. H took many pix at DS3's birthday party and he never sent any. Now all of the sudden, he is doing to "prove" he is a good person and good father??

This is so sad and sickening. Really, how does he sleep at night? But in his mind, he is not doing anything wrong, so of course he can sleep well at night. H has never leaned there are "consequences" since he was a child. H pretty much did whatever he felt like, and his father paid for it, his mother cleaned up after his mess, and after we got married, pretty much I always ended up forgiving H's bad behaviors without really enforcing boundaries or letting H taste any consequences. I really should have.

H thinks he can push as far as he can. He is still saying he needs to "focus on himself". How much focus on himself is enough? He is already very selfish. I can't believe he seriously feels that he needs to further focus on himself!

How was your weekend?

Milk

Milkshake,

I am copying your stbxh's words here...I could SWEAR they were straight outta the mouth of my xh. He did same stuff. Said same stuff. Said I was a bad mom. Said I was psycho. He, nevermind, had domestic abuse charges against him and his affairs all were documented and witnesses all over the place about his abuse to me.

But in the mind of the WS they're all minimized. It's all about him hon.

His words:
I think I have made a lot of progress in my sex addiction part, but I still need to work on myself and I have to become a happy person. If I become a happy person, I can make people around me happy as well. We need to move on. Let's settle"


if I can become a happy person, I can make people around me happy as well ?

Wow. What he's saying is when he's happy, then everybody is happy. Complete WS bs.

I'd copy that note and give it to my lawyer. His own words saying he has an active sex addiction. That should go REEEAL GOOD for him in custody hearing.

My xh tried same thing. He used niceness. He used scare tactics after niceness wore off. Then he didn't pay us and tried to starve us. Those were the tricks he used..and that many WS play...and many seedy attorneys apparently tell them to use it on us.

Go w/legal system. Expose him. Even further. My xh to this day is still mad at me for exposing him. But because he did not hit rock bottom and keeps bouncing like a rubber ball and has material wealth, he is not a broken man and hasn't come close.

His insistence on a D could be the very undoing of this man. For now, keep on blinders and copy that darn email and have attorney read it in court. Especially about the part where he's wanting to be happy...and if he's happy everybody is happy then. Plus he's pressuring you.

Keep dark. Let the lawyers do what they went to school for. You just provide them the ammo. Your WH knows what he has to do for this to end. He is not at bottom yet.

We know they may take years for this to happen...some earlier than others...and some that will never happen with.

I am praying for you. I remember how all this went down with me. My xh got wind I was serving him again (second time after a false recovery)and that he'd be served at work (made mistake of telling IL's I loved them..still would be their daughter..and they told WH that I was about to serve or they suspected it) and WH beat me to final filing by six hours. I was having him served exactly when he was having me served. His courier got to me first...then I countered him by also filing. Under different grounds than his (his were irretreivably broken) and still served him at his office. Mine were adultery, abuse, and irretrievably broken.

Or else I'd send him a revised version of his paragraph via email. "I think I have made alot of progress in my taking your poo as a BS. But I still need to work on myself and it is I WHO HAS TO BECOME A HAPPY PERSON. if I BECOME A HAPPY PERSON, THEN I MAKE ALL THE PEOPLE AROUND ME HAPPY AS WELL. You need to cure your sex addiction and move on. Let's settle...(and add in the words)ON MY TERMS."

I just hate it when they get like he is btw.

Milk,
I sware when I read your posts, it sounded like you were talking about my H <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />....

I am all for people taking care of themselves...but there is a point when you got to stop being so dam selfish <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />!

How selfish can they get? Sometimes it makes me feel as though there really is no limit. I am starting to feel the same way as you...My H's family always took care of H, that is good, they should be there for him, but unfortunately I think they went too far....He never had any (and I do mean ANY) reasponsibility at home...I mean there were no chores or anything like that...he learned to have the attitude of 'it gets done when it gets done'...they gave him money through out college, paid for college...they gave him money for the wedding and he spend 1/2 on himself...then we got married and I worked...so again there was someone who paid all the bills and his amusements and he felt intiteled to them <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />!

No compromise on his side as far as what we could afford and what not...if the money was there, he felt intitled to spend it....and was INCAPABLE of making any compromises (what did he care if I wanted to save something so I could visit my family in Europe) he wanted to spend it all today because that is how it always was....he got what ever he wanted today....

But, go figure, I was not happy about that..and H just felt we could not make this work since we were too different. What BS...come on, he could sometimes think of someone elses needs besides his! So, I am with you on the selfishness...people like that hardly change....and then just like your H he said to me that he needed to do for himself now .... It is so hard to believe now, since he hardly did anything for us..it was all about him! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

I find it really interseting that when we lived together H felt he should have it all and was not willing to compromise and got angry whenever I spoke of budgeting...yet now, he does not have as much discrationary income and somehow makes do without all the stuff he just had to have when we lived together.....

I was at the store the other day and there was an 8 year old boy with his mother and he wanted some candy...mom said no...and he said, don't worry I'll pay you back when I get the allowance....I just started laughing...since it made me think of my H...spending money the other week that he did not have knowing he was going to go paint a deck the following weekend...he said "i'll get some money next week..but I already spend it all going to this party and on drinks...".. Comparing an 8 year old to a 29 year old, kind of sad but humurous at the same time...

I have been feeling better but sadly I am realizing that I really don't even understand who my H is anymore...He was a different person when I met him...I reallize people change...so overtime I think he was unhappy because he could not be the person he wanted to be and now he can be that person and I look at him and I don't like that person...I am realizing more that I don't even want him back... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

It makes me sad...H spends all his free time at clubs and pubs, or some other places where drinking is taking place....I like to drink as well, but no, I do not spend every night or even every other night out.... I don't want to be with someone who wants to do that...I can see why he was not happy with me if that is what he wanted to do...he felt I did not approve...I guess I don't <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />.... It is a different life style really... I am more social than I was in the past but I never will be the person who goes out to clubs and pubs every day or even every other day.... I guess, I hoped H wanted more in life, but really that is what he wants....

I spoke to him last night...he was hung over, went out with his co-workers and drank too much...Saturday he went out again to this club he invited me to on Friday....Yes, I did go with him Friday, since I have not gone out like that in like 2 months...but for him it is like a nightly venture... Whenever I call, that is all he is doing...I know he does not drink every time he goes out, but still the life style, to go out every night, it is not for me.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

We talked some but he really was not interested in talking to me...I am getting to a point where I don't get bothered by that much (it used to really hurt)....I just ended up getting of the phone as I noticed he was not interested to talk really...

I am enjoying life again...I still have sad days...but I do enjoy my time more now.... I guess what I want is a man that my H is not...so I am accepting that... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Sorry for the long post....

Enjoy! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
Daisy

Thanks Peachy and Daisy. I am shocked at myself that I could not tell H had potential to be like this for such a long time. He has always been selfish and inmature. He has always been extremely irresponsible. He has always been lazy. He has always had very addictive personality. And he has alwaye been impulsive, inpatient, and wanted an easy way out. Why couldn't I put these traits together?

I was naive. I thought people can change. I thought as long as you are a good person, you can change and things will work out. But I did not define "good" well enough. Sure H did not kill anyone, but that does not make him a good person. He always lied to me. That is not something a "good" person does. He never liked any hard work. That is not good either.

Now poor my son has to suffer so much. We were at our friends' house over the weekend and DS3 kept asking his favorite "uncle" not to leave him. It broke his and my heart. When I drop DS3 off at his daycare, he would say "please stay with me Mama, don't leave me". A 3-year-old should NOT have to go through such emotional trauma. He should be care free and be enjoying his life as a child. He HATES to see people leave. He grabs people's arms and neck so that they cannot leave. H doesn't know this, and could care less. And he claims he truly LOVES his son. Sure, that is very convenient.

H should suffer, not DS3. Not us. Life is so unfair.

I spoke to my lawyer this morning and it looks at least I and DS3 can go to visit my parents overseas. I am very nervous as to how much it ended up costing us just to simply go visit DS3's grandparents. H is saying now he wants to take DS3 to Italy eventually - how selfish can he be? He made this fuss over us going to my country, costing us a lot, and he is planning on taking DS3 outside of this country? Really, I want to know if H even has a normal brain. How much more selfish can he be? And that is how he is going to be "happy"??

Milk,
Its terrible what torture is imposed on a family as a result of WH selfishness. All the more reason to take good care of yourself. DS will follow your lead...he needs your comfort and security from you.

You are in my thoughts and prayers

Thank you confused. The only thing I can do at this point is to pray. I really hope H would face some severe consequences. He cannot build his "new" life at the expenses of his own family.

Pray yes...but arm your lawyers with his latest self debasing email proclaiming him to have a sex addiction problem.

Yes, a WS CAN build a so called new life at the expense of their own family? Read my mini bio at the end? It does happen...and in my town all the time it seems. The legal system can hand down the consequences. You can hand him out exposure and out him to the world. That's what he will have.

And yes...do pray...and know you're not alone. Others will too.

Faith without works is void...gotta do the works!

Milk-
I've been thinking of you and your situation and just
wanted to remind you of all the support, thoughts, and
prayers coming your way from everyone here.

Seems as though these WH's with addictions and other issues
are just like addicts whos vices are drugs, alcohol, gambling, etc- in that they don't care who they hurt, or what things they leave in their "wake", just as long as they
get their "Fix". For example, you hear of addicts who
steal from their own friends or family to get money for drugs or alcohol, people who run up huge debts to gamble,
all for a short, temporary "fix" that isn't going to last
or really make them happy- especially when they get clear
enough to see reality and the mess they have made of their
lives. Your WH, like mine, seems to be determined to believe that his problems, issues and unhappiness are
caused by their spouse, or their M, instead of getting down to the real source- themselves !! I guess this is easier
to believe and deal with than them having to really do some
soul-searching, make effort, deal with difficult situations
and do something about it.
Seems like they also think it's easier to just "bail out",
move on to new things/people, than to work out issues, and
stick with their marriages.

Wonder if our H is changing "his tune" after finding out how
expensive it will be to fight you over every detail, try to
make unreasonable demands, etc. or if his lawyer has told
him he is not likely to win in any of his demands ?
Seems like it is fine to "settle" and make things easier,
less "drawn out", and less expensive as long as you aren't
giving up anything that's important to you- I would definitely keep up your guard, continue to document everything, and consult your lawyer on every move too.

I know none of this feels fair, and I'm sure it's especially hard with a child. I think all you can do is be
very supportive, loving and honest with DS3, and he will
figure out things for himself as far as your H as he gets
older. I think WH will eventually pay a very high price
for his selfishness, as he is going to miss out on a whole
lot in DS3's life, and will NEVER have his respect.

Daisy- Sorry your H has caught a bad case of the
"SELFISH" virus too ! I'm with you in not knowing if my
H is even capable of being a "real" person or H anymore
because he is so different than he originally was.
After we saw each other last weekend, and things didn't
go so well Sunday, I was wondering if H would quit calling
or change his contact with me, but he called three times
last week. Seemed odd, but he left a message not only on
my work voicemail, but also my cell and home phones,
all about the same time, and all saying the same thing,
and it was nothing of any importance anyway.
Called another day just to tell me he's been trying to reach
his daughter and can't get her.
Called Friday night, asking about our dog (always does),
and passing on some info about his Dad's recent health
problems- seems like he calls often when he doesn't really
need to ! Fri. night I asked if he wanted to do something
but he said he was tired and wanted to go "home" (wherever
he is staying) but when he gave me receipts yesterday he
had gotten gas later that same night in a different part of
town, so it appears to me that he is still being dishonest.

Yesterday he came by to visit the dog, pick up his mail
and drop off receipts for me (I keep the checkbook).
I always look at them to get whatever clue I can about
his whereabouts or activities. Some were gas at various
places around town, but noticed one that had what was
clearly ingredients to make chili, plus a "Cosmopolitan"
magazine ! This definitely didn't make me feel good
since that would be a female item, not something he'd read !

Prior to that I had been a little encouraged to see the cell
bill for last month and notice that his text messaging was
down to a total of 7. (previous several months were between
39 and 80 !) Made me feel like he might be coming out of the
fog and back to reality, but the receipts and his continued
absence from home make me feel like he'd still got issues
going on.

Last night when H was leaving I did ask if he thought we
could work on "things", and all he said was "you know how
I feel" (like even he does). I said too bad, since we had
such a good chance at making a "fresh start", and he said
"yeah, like we have any chance to make a fresh start",
in a sarcastic way. This made me think that maybe he
feels like there are too many issues, too much "water under
the bridge", or he has too much guilt, etc. to try to work
on M ? I just said, "people can change and things can
change" so there's no reason we couldn't if we just decided we'd do it". He had no comment to that, but we hung up being
pleasant. Of course, then no contact today.
Same as always, up then down, and no way of knowing what's
going on in his head.
(He still hasn't filed the D paperwork either- almost
two months after he insisted he have it - weird !!)
Hang in there too !

Slammed

Hey Milk!
How is it going today? I was glad to hear that you will be able to go visit your family over seas <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />....just like your H to give you such a tough time about it and then say "ok, i'll do it too"....Ahhhhh makes me tired...

I was having a good day today <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />...I went rock climbing (in a gym) for the first time yesterday, I had a really good time...scary at first but exciting at the same time! I went to buy some rock-climbing equipment today...boy there is so much out there...I just got the shoes and a harnest...anywho...I can see myself doing it more <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />...

I had IC today so I feel prity good, I feel like I am making progress <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />...I still have moments when I am saddened and I get teary <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> but overall it is good....

H called today..."Hey, its me...", are we dating - I did not noticed! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
Sometimes I think he just does not get it! Anyway, I am enjoying my day so I just said "yes, it is you.."...

Life, I tell you... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Best, {{{{{{milkshake}}}}}}}}

Enjoy! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
Daisy

hey there milk....just checking in and reading up on what's been happening with you

how are you?

Hi again Milk,

Pleaae remember my earlier post to you in
plan A/plan B.

Do not negoticiate with the WS. Have your lawyer take it before the judge.

Still praying for you and DS3,
love, VTY