Milk -
Have been thinking of you and hope you are doing okay !?

Had thought my situation might be turning around a bit
and improving but had a big happening last night and feel
exhausted and devestated today. If you have time to read
my long post from this morning, please give me your input
(anyone else too, please) as I just am at a loss today.

Hang in there !
Slammed

Thanks Slammed, Daisy, Eav, and VTY.

H went to pick up DS3 from his daycare last night and came by to drop him off. It was the first time to see him after being served on Monday. I could not see his face. I did not want to see his face.

H was having a hard time letting DS3 go, and while he was handing him over to me, he said "once the whole thing is settled, DS3 can stay over night with me more often". I was thinking "yeah right, that is not going to happen" but did not say anything. All what H does is to "demand, demand, and demand".... Without taking any responsibility! How low can he get??? Obviously he does not have any dignity or honor. None existed so I should not have expected that now.

DS3 needs a mentally stable and honest father. Poor baby, his father is so broken!

Slammed,

I noticed your post - I have a meeting to go now but will log back on later to read it and will get back to you. Hang in there! We will go through the hard time together. Be strong.

Love,
Milk

Hi Milk and Slammed!
Hang in there both of you...you both had such rough past week...Keep strong...

It just seems like the pain will never end...I had a good day yesterday and today I just could not stop crying in my office...I looked like a mess...

I wish for it all to be way behind us already...but it takes time...

Hugs to you both!
Daisy

hey milk

i'm sorry that your h is being such a selfish jerk

it's sad that we all thought we had great guys and now we've got thier evil twin

what is your lawyer proposing for visitation?

Hello Milkshake,

I've just caught up on your thread. I'm so sorry about everything that is happening. After everything that you've been through, now you have to go through a nasty D, too. It's so unfair.

You mentioned that you are realizing the finality of your M and that you are sad. It IS very sad, but I promise[/i] that you will eventually feel better. Those thoughts will come around less and less, and eventually you will mostly be thinking about a bright new future for you and your DS - without the weight of your STBXH.

It appears to me that the end of your M will be more of a loss to HIM than to YOU, though you both might not fully realize it yet.

I think your stbx is only fooling himself by thinking that he will be happy after the D. "I want to make myself happy so everyone else around me can be happy." pffft. What a crock of le poo poo! If your stbx IS anything like my stbx, he will never be happy. I think we discussed this before. Let him go and let him be miserable by himself. There might come a time when you would never want Mr. miserable back. (does he really care if everyone else is happy anyway?? - just wondering)

I like what Lemonman said about the coming around going around stuff. I like to take comfort in that myself.

Hang in there, MS. I promise it will get better.

~svb

Hey Milk-
Thanks for your reply on my thread.
I was already feeling down, but the new info from my
WH's OW, knowing about more lies, and all the fresh
hurt have made me feel that there's little hope of any
resolution to all this mess, other than D.

WH has told GF that he already filed the D paperwork,
although to my knowledge he has not. After a certain
length of time, I know that it becomes "null and void"
and has to be re-done, although I don't know if it's
been that long since I signed it (almost 2 months now).
Will see if I can find out more -

Am going to a "dark" plan now, just to avoid further hurt
or confusion and am trying to think more of the future
without WH.
I know that I really need to make more money to support myself, so am trying to get some ideas on what I can do, whether it be a second job, schooling, or trying to find a totally new career field that pays more.
I know I won't be able to afford to keep our house, so have been looking at ads and checking on some options for a small house or townhouse.
I sure feel like I'm in a poor situation financially, which is really frustrating. Before we married, I had my own
townhouse which I bought, painted, decorated and furnished,
had a car that was paid off, few bills, had money to do
things and travel some, and now feel like I have gone
backwards-

I'm so grateful to have our dog- she's the only good thing left from our relationship right now.

How are things going with you this week ?
Slammed

Hey Milk, slammed!

How is it going? It sounds like a tough week...

I am also contemplating going dark...no Plan B, just moving on to save myself the pain...I don't know if I want my M anymore...I am starting to feel that H is just way too gone in his own world and nowhere near to mine....

I just went to get lunch and ran into H selling sandwiches at the cafateria...it was such a sad scene for me...he has a BA was working on his masters and now he quit it all...

I know someone has to do it...but he just looked so sad there...I stopped to talk to him since I felt that it would be wrong to just walk by without saying hello...H is sick bad, and he really looked so vulnarable I just wanted to hug him and that realization just made me get out of there fast! On my way back, I walked by really quick, I just did not want to engage him anymore...

He left me to "chase his own dreams" and so far I have observed that him quitting the MA program, taking the lowest job possible "b/c it has no reponsibility", drinking and going out all the time...

What am I not seeing......yes, he has the freedom to go out now....I guess that is what he valued more than a R with me...

Just makes me sad...I wanted more for him cause he had me convinced he wanted more.....

Daisy

Hi Daisy, Eav, SVB1, and Slammed,

Thanks for popping in. I am not doing too good. I was too furious to sleep last night. I just kept thinking how dare him, how dare him, how dare him....., throughout our M, H just kept lying to me. From the very beginning, even when he came to propose me, he already lied. And he lied in the D papers, and he continues to try to manipulate me.

That is what makes me so sad and angry. I really thought he was a good person. How can he lie like this? I can never lie like that even if someone pays me to lie!

I guess he has always been severly broken mentally. And he got worse and worse as time goes by and as his responsibility at work and home increased. I wish I could "save" him, but as long as he "focuses" on himself only, people around him continue to get hurt. And I do not want to get hurt anymore.

Thanks SVB1, I really hope things will get easier and better. It sounds like you are doing much better. I remember you were having a hard time letting your M go initially, so seeing you being so refreshed and strong and confident truly gives me hope.

I spoke to my lawyer and now DS3 and I can go on a trip. When we come back, I really want to get together with you. I don't have DS3 every other weekends, so we can meet up for dinner or a drink or something.

And Eav, how are you holding up? I haven't seen your posts but you sound you are getting a bit stronger. Keep it up. We are all going to make it.

Slammed, I am really sorry for what you have to go through. I just replied to you in your thread, but I really do not think your H will be happy with OW or anybody b/c he just has way too many mental issues. And clearly he is blaming other people for his own issues. Just like my H. All we can do is try to get stronger and move on. Our H's may or may not realize how they have been blaming others and not taking any responsibility. How they had a life full of lies. The way H is acting, I do not think he would ever realize it, unfortunately. But the time will tell. Frankly, if OW already sees your H's lies even though they have been together for only 3 months, their R will not survive.

Your H and my H are just full of lies. Their values are so different from ours.

And Daisy, you sound stronger as well. Your H is still attached to you, but if he just quit everything and takes no responsibility in anything, that is just not right. He is too young to go through midlife crisis, but he is definitely having some mental/emotional problems as well. I think you have been handling your situation well. Stay calm and strong and detach yourself emotionally so that you won't get hurt more.

Having said that, I am missing our happy old days. I just miss those even casual phone calls I used to make from my office. I don't even have a person to call to let him know that I am on my way home. That depresses me. But I cannot get into a negative thiking trap. H is broken, so there is nothing I can do. Hopefully in the future I will meet someone who is mentally strong, stable, and someone who is responsible!!!

I was feeling sad yesterday and this morning. Maybe I am just missing having someone I can share my day and life with. I am trying to picture my future where I DO have someone I can share my life with. That would make me feel a bit better, and I question myself - am I missing H or am I just missing having someone around?

But this morning I realized - I can probably be happy again in the future. I may find someone I can trust and he may love DS3 as if he is his own son. Maybe I can find such person. But then..., it would still not the same. We would never have the same history, and I would always feel sad and in a way "failed" whenever I think of my marriage to H. It terrifies me to think that I would always have such a big emotional scar.

My therapist asked me what kind of "needs" H was fulfilling, and if I could just have such needs met by other people - family and friends. I had to think about this one. I still do not have any concrete answer, but one thing for sure - that no one would ever take the special place in my heart that I have always reserved for H. Despite his selfishness, inmatureness, and all sorts of mental problems, H has always had a very special place in my heart. I am not sure if I can ever "replace" him. Probably not. And that really depresses me.

Well, maybe I am in a pitty pot again. I've got to get out of this. I have to believe my future is bright. I have to believe that DS3 and I can laugh a lot again and that we will feel very happy again. I hope someday hearing DS3 crying for his daddy will not hurt me too much.

Hello Milkshake,

I hate that you're feeling so sad. Sometimes I wonder, though, if it is good to think the sad thoughts, and have the sad feelings, for a while, to get them out of our system. I guess it is only bad if you dwell on them for too long. But, somehow, I can't imagine you doing that. You are already having glimpses of a bright future! I think it's a good sign.

I'm sure you've seen SS tell me on my thread that he knew that I'd be happy again someday, even if I didn't believe it. Well, I don't think I really believed it then. I do now, though. I'm actually starting to be happy again, and it's only going to get better. You'll get there, too.

I'm happy that you will be able to travel to see your family AND bring them back with you for a while. I think it will help you tremendously. It has helped me to be back closer to my family. When do you leave, exactly?

Hang in there, MS.

~svb

TGIF Milkshake,
I very much understand feeling sad and lonely- having WH
gone from home certainly does take getting used to.
Weekends have been the hardest for me, as just seems like
such a big stretch of time on my hands, and I get feeling
lonely and sad thinking of fun things WH and I used to do
together.
I updated my seperate thread with a new development last
night that you can read when you have time, but it ended
up that WH stayed overnight at our house, and that was a very strange feeling in light of everything this week.

Today I am so tired, and also catching a cold, so can't
really think straight about what I want to do. Seems I
might have an opportunity to get back with WH, but don't
know if it's possible or I have the energy to try again.
I hate not knowing what to do, and being in such a quandry !

I want to remind you that you have made every possible
effort, shown incredible patience and dignity, and you have
not failed at all in the M. No one gets through life without some kind of emotional scars but just like real
scars, they fade with time !
I know and understand what you mean about no one replacing
H in your heart, but once you do find hope, love, laughter
and fun again the future, I'm sure that "place" in your
heart will get smaller.
Hope your weekend is peaceful- Slammed

Hey Milk,
Sometimes I also get down and think of all my failures as a spouse and what I could have done better...then I think of my M as a partnership and H was not doing his share either...we each had a oar and we rowed away, I tried harder with time (still could have done better) but we did not move forward much, just made a lot of cirles since H did not believe in working on the M...

I look at the possitive side now...I have learned a lot about myself and about M...both have to try and work and give it the same for it to move forward...if one works more than the other...you just end up doing cirles....I have learned a lot and I know I can be a better spouse..I know how to go about it...being in a M is a learning process...it is continueous work...i'll always be learning...
I can see myself being with someone ...
As long as you learn from this situation...you move to a better place!

Yesterday was a tough day...seing H so vulnarable ...and the thing is that he was really happy to see me...it was not just 'oh, hey you'...the look he gave me was filled with so much more...it was painful and frankly throw me off and suddenly I realized if I did not get out of there I was bound to act more like his W....then a 'friend'...

It got me to thinking...and it saddened me to realize that I am no longer working on my marriage...Since his 'lets be just friends' email I have stopped any R/M talk...we do our own thing...I am no longer asking about MC, how he feels about us etc....I don't want to be rejected again...

H may care about me and love me...but he is not willing to make any changes in his live that would require any compromise or work on his part (with respect to the M)...I cannot chase after the guy anymore....it is up to him...

I know I am not dealing with an A or even a D yet...but the pain is still there....to know that H loves me yet he still chooses to walk away is really painful...it makes it harder for me to just go dark...the feelings are there but I cannot act on them, since when I did he just kept hurting me...cannot do it anymore..

Milk,
You sound really good these days...sometimes a big shock like you got last week, hurts a lot at first, but does help us move forward...you just really sound in control...I know you have sad days but now that you have good days it will get easier....you will go inbetween feeling good and feeling sad...but the sad days are not as bad because you know it will get better so you just get through it....

At first we did not even see the possibility of it getting better, now we do and that is a good place to be...

Slammed, I'll write to you on your thread...hope you are doing well...

Daisy <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Thanks SVB, Slammed and Daisy.

I hope I am getting stronger. Even though the whole D work is depressing and sad, I now realize this is the only option I have and just need to get over with it. Before, even though I knew H was gone, I had some hope and that was immobilizing me. I was always looking for little clues to maintain the last piece of hope. And I was afraid to make any moves b/c I did not blow up the last piece of hope.

So from that stand point, maybe now I know there is nothing to be hopeful about might be making me stronger in a strange way. There is no way around this and I have to go through it. And no more fantasy about H coming to his senses and returning home. H is gone. H does not care about me. H only cares about himself. Now it is crystal clear.

Plus, I have to think about the legal work, which requirs a lot of energy and money, which is distracting me sometimes from getting too emotional. I have to view H as an enermy from the legal stand point now, since he is willing to play dirty. It is very sad that we have come to this point, but maybe this was needed for me to break my fantasy about H. I needed to realize H was after all not that kind of person. And if I lose respect for him, it is easier for me to move on.

If I did not have DS3, all what I have to worry about at this point could have been financial settlement. But I have a constant reminder that I created this human being with H, and no matter what, H is DS3's father. So it is hard. I may be able to almost hate H, if I try so that I would have no feelings left for him, but I cannot do that b/c he is still DS3's daddy. But, when I look at DS3, I know he is the best thing that ever happened to me. So I have to stay positive. I do not want to think I have wasted my life on H.

Maybe this was a very hard lesson that I should learn about R and M. I always assumed we would be together forever, without any doubt. I did not realize it requires a lot of work to sustain successful M. And I learned that even though I felt I knew H so well, better than anyone else in the world, he is still an independet individual and I should not assume that I knew everything about him including his emotions/feelings.

I really hope someday I can trust a man and our R again!

Milk

Milk,

Yes, you are getting stronger <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />...I can read it in your posts. It is sad that you have to view your H as an enemy <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />...yet given his tactics, I am sure you have a hard time trusting him.

I don't know how you are doing it milk. I feel as though my H still loves me and the thought that he does not always sends me into a panic...Logically this should not make any difference, since he left, is gone and does not want to come back, yet emotionally I just could not handle him telling me he does not love me. I admire your strength! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I have of course no guarantee that H still cares, but his action do show he does. I feel as though my problems are small compared to others on here (like slammed - what she has to deal with, I feel for her <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />)...

I still see my H, but its so hard! I mean, he comes over to watch a movie (he still wants to hang out <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />) and asks me for a hug, calls me by the nickname he has for me, and then "well, I got to go crush out, see you" and he is out the door. I don't know what to do. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

We set on the steps yesterday talking and he put his arm around me and held me close said he wanted a hug and then poof he was gone....how do I deel with it...I wonder if he is cake eating again. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> Dam him! He took a blank CD from me and then says, if I mind if he takes it...I think I really need to put my foot down...I am not dealing with another woman...I am moving on, yet I am not completely giving up on my M. I seem to have no Plan, just moving on...and that always saddens me. I wonder if H might come back...I really don't know what he thinks he is doing <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />....He asks me what I am up to all the time and will not take a vague reply for an answer(I try to look mistirious)...just presses on...to get all details out of me...I really will have to just tell him that its none of this business....

Anyway.....You take care milk..thanks for letting me chat! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


Daisy <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

milk

i'm sorry things are to this point for you. this is so hard...i don't know how i'd do it if i had kids..i read your posts and hurtings and think that it must be twiced as hard for you both.

Thanks everyone for your support. I really need it.

H came to pick up DS3 on Saturday, and yesterday while I was having lunch with my friend, my cell phone rang. It was H so I did not answer it. Then he left me a message.

It said "hi Mama, this is H and DS3. DS3, say hi to Mama. (I hear DS3 saying hi mama in the background). We are at Walmart, I am going to buy DS3 a winter jacket b/c it is getting cold. And I will probably get him some more clothes as well. Okay, DS3, say I love you Mama (I hear DS3 saying I love you Mama in the back), DS3, say I will call you tonight Mama (I hear that). Okay take care Milk".

Why does he do this to me? Either he is trying to hurt me intentionally by calling like this as if nothing big is happening, or he is trying to push the button to "soften" me up so that I won't fight back financially/legally? I hate to say this, but now I cannot trust H, I am more inclined to the latter. Exactly two weeks ago, the night before I was served (but I had no idea), H called and let me speak to DS3 and was acting as if nothing was wrong and wanted me to feel normal. Then boom! The very next day, the D papers arrived saying that I am an unfit custodial parent and there has been mental cruelty throughout the marriage and since I make more, H should get pretty much everything in terms of assets.

H is capable of doing this. It really scares me. That really shows how mentally sick he is, I think. I can NEVER pretend nothing big is going to happen the very next day and let DS3 say "I love you Papa" on the phone.

And he is so good at it. While he was still in the house (although he was looking for an apartment every single day behind my back) earlier this year, H knew he could not piss me off too much since he was out of work and had no place to go. And when I told him "I cannot trust you", he would say "I have to lure you back". He knows I am a trusting person. And he used it against me.

And did H call me back at night as he promised last night? Of course NOT! Did he call me this morning to let me know how DS3's drop off was? NO!

Why did I think H was a better, sweeter person than me? When I told him this 10 months ago, he covered his ears and told me "no, I am not such a sweet person, I am cruel, I am cruel, I am cruel...".

I know this is so bad to feel this way, but now really wish H would suffer in the near future from his decision and the way he handled the whole thing. I am praying not to think like that, but I am too hurt to be a nice, fair person right now. H just used me and is not even feeling bad about it at all.

(((Milk)))

I understand where you are. I hear that my WH is at an attorney's office today. I am very scared of what kind of crap he will try to pull. I would think that a lawyer would say "Hey, you screwed up, now pay up", but hearing about your WH's lawyer, terrifies me.

Have you talked to a lawyer, where are you with the legal stuff?

Thanks Jean. I don't want you to get scared about your situation just b/c my stbxh has no dignity, honor, and pride as a man and father. But try to prepare yourself for the worst situation. Once WS's convince themselves that they are the victims, they would justfy anything. And they would have no remorse. They just continue to be selfish.

I could not get a hold of my lawyer on Friday, so will try to talk to him today.

I've been depressed this morning...

H must be happy b/c he thinks he is soon getting cash out of the house, with which he can buy a house, and with his new flashy car, he can "impress" women.

I should not care about what H is going to do. But I cannot help myself. Sigh...

Does anyone know as a fact that most WS's would regret their decisions to leave their families? The fact the divorce rate for those who have already divorced jumps, to me, means those who seek another person to resolve marital issues tend to repeat the same mistake. But still, I just cannot imagine my H regreting in the future, even if he would not be happy. I hope I am wrong... I really hope one day he would realize how much he has hurt me and DS3 especially. And I really hope this "one day" is not like 10 years from now. Maybe by then I would not care.