Hey Milk,

When are you comming back home? How is your trip going?
Any more contact from your H?

VTY

hey milk!

I hope you are enjoying your vacation!! smart move with sister-in-law!

Thank you SVB1, VTY, and Eav.

DS3 and I flew back last Thursday evening. My parents came with us to stay for about a week here. I wish they could stay a little longer to help me go through upcoming holiday seasons, but they could not.

It was nice to be home and to relax, although I kept thinking about the whole thing, which prevented me from having too much fun. Still, not dealing with H helped me tremendously. It was soooooo much easier. H called several times. He first called at midnight (I was asleep and did not hear it) and my mom answered. He did not say anything so the next day my mom was furious. She said "I am sure it was STBXH, and even though he woke me up with his midnight phone call, he did not say anything! What a sneaky man". Then the phone rang and she answered again. She asked him if he had called the previous night and apparently he said yes. With her poor English, she manged to tell him not to call so late.

Then he called to speak to DS3. I was not happy to hear from him at all, since that was a reminder to the dark, nasty, and depressing reality, but what can I do.

H called when we came back, and he said he would have DS3 for four days in a row this week (Thursday through Sunday). We already had a plan for Thanksgiving, so I told him so. Then he got so mad. So I told him "you can have him this weekend instead". Guess what he said! He said "but DS3 is jetlagged and will wake up at odd hours. I have to go to work on Monday so I want to have him next weekend, not this weekend".

Wait, I thought he LOVED DS3. Just because he is jetlagged, STBXH does not even want to be bothered by his son??? If I were in his shoes, I couldn't wait to see my son! I know this is not something I should have said, but I told him "you always love DS3 only when it is convenient for you". Then I suggested that he could have DS3 on Friday and I will have him on Thursday. He still said no, and we got in an argument and then STBXH threatened me by saying "I will talk to my lawyer!".

I was terrified at first, and thought he might tell his lawyer that I am blocking his way to see his son. I called my friend and he suggested that I call STBXH back and agree that he can have DS3 for those days. But I did not want to do so, since then STBXH would think I am at a disadvantage. Also, I started to think "wait, it is not like I said no to everything - first, I offered him to pick DS3 up this weekend, but he said no, because he does not want to be bothered by DS3's jetlag. Then I offered to split the Thanksgiving holidays and still he said no. How can he use this against me???"

Then STBXH called me back and said "okay, I will pick him up this weekend then". I did not feel like thanking him AT ALL, but said "thank you".

Then I expected him to show up early on Saturday, since he kept saying that he has missed DS3 and could not wait to see him. He called up around 11AM to tell me that he is cleaning his apartment so he would call when he is done. Cleaning?? Why didn't he do it before Saturday??? Then he called me back at around noon to tell me that now he has to make a stop to pick up his medicine (Prozac) so he will get to my place in 45 minutes or so. STBXH finally showed up at around 1PM! Not only that - he said he would drop him off on Sunday evening instead of keeping him on Sunday night. He does not want to keep his child because he does not want to have a hectic Monday morning? I go to work on Monday too, but I would have never given up my opportunity to spend time with my child!

Then when I asked him when he would come by to drop DS3 off, he said he does not know, so I said "well, it is helpful for you to let me know so that we can plan ahead. Are you coming back at 5PM?" To which, he said "no, that is too early". So I asked "6PM?" He said "no not that early. 7PM or 8PM then". I said okay.

Guess what happned. On Sunday, at around 4:20PM, my cell phone rang. STBXH said "I am bringing DS3 back within an hour. I forgot to do my laundry so I need some time".

Laundry??? I thought he wanted to spend time with DS3!

He dropped DS3 off at 5:30PM. What was all the fuss he made about not being able to spend time with DS3 then?

He is going to come by to pick DS3 up again on Friday. I want DS3 to spend time with his father, but hate seeing him in pain when he gets dropped off by his father. He must feel being abandoned. He often asks me "Mama, don't leave me okay? Don't go". Seeing him being like that really hurts me. At least when we were on vacation, we did not have to deal with STBXH and DS3 was doing great. He did not miss his father and he did not have to go through such drama. I really hated seeing him crying on Sunday night after STBXH left.

I missed you guys all! Now I have to finalize my proposal to STBXH for settlement, I am sure I am going to have a lot of hard time. Please stay with me....!!!

Hey Milkshake!

Welcome back. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'm sorry you have to come back to deal with more grief from your STBXH, but hopefully you are refreshed enough from your trip to be able to handle this. You'll make it through all of this.

Feel free to come here and vent as you please.
We will all be here.

Take care,
svb

Thanks svb1. It is good to know that I can come here to talk. How are things with you?

Milk

Milk,
I don't have children and I still cannot understand your H's attitude.........but then we both know that it is the selfishness shining through!

It is so childish.....I mean kids want a puppy but then only want that puppy when he is fun, not when they have to go walk him or clean after him! Adults know the reality of owning a puppy means, training, cleaning up after him, etc. I hate when I have to make such a comparision.....yet, your H just wanting the "fun and very limited responsibility" with your DS is just like a kid that wants a puppy......really sad!

My H is behaiving the same way with me. Wants all the good parts that come with being with me......so unreal!

Hang in there milk....sounds like your will have to adjust to get back to dealing with a WH......but you can do this!

Best,
Daisy

Thanks svb1. It is good to know that I can come here to talk. How are things with you?

Hi Milkshake. Thanks for asking.

Things are ok. I'm trying to stay positive. I'm struggling a little, though. The D process is not going as quickly as I'd like. I need to have this behind me. Plus, this Saturday is our 11th anniversary. I'm trying not to think about it too much. It will help that our big Thanksgiving dinner will be on Saturday, and not tomorrow.

I hope you have a great Thanksgiving. Keep us posted on what's going on with you.

svb

Hi Daisy and SVB1.

Thanksgiving was good. My friends had us all over (my parents, DS3, and me) and we had a good time. Yesterday we had friends over so that they could see my parents before they left this morning.

Yesterday STBX called several times, but I did not know. I guess he called home several times, but I was out. He might have called my cell too, but I did not hear anything. Then in the evening, he called again on my cell but I was in the shower. He left me a nasty message "Milk, BE SURE to have your cell phone around. This is not about us, this is about me and DS3, and I want to talk to him. Have DS3 call me back soon as you get this message".

Excuse me, STBX did not want to take care of DS3 when he had a jetlag. I have my life too, so I am not always available!

I called him back and said "I did not appreciate your attitude. I was in the shower, but besides, I could be in the washroom, I could be out in the yard, I could be taking care of DS3, it could be anything. I am busy. I am not here waiting for your phone calls. If I get to the phone, I answer, if I can't, I can't."

STBX "whatever"
Me "I really did not like your attitude".
STBX "but I called at 1PM and 3PM and you did not answer".
Me "I did not know you have called. I keep my cell phone in my purse, and I do not always hear it when it rings. You don't answer half the time when I call you. You can't expect me to be always available. I don't have my cell phone in my hand or pocket all the time, so I don't always answer the phone, but if I can, I do, and if I don't, if you ask me to call back, I always do, and you know that."

Then he said "okay, sorry".

He has always been this way though. He has to get what he wants WHEN he wants it. If I do not answer the phone, he keeps calling.

And you are right Daisy. STBX is like a kid who wants a puppy. When we got our dog eleven years ago, he just DECIDED to get a puppy, without consulting with me. He put on a coat, and I sensed that he was going to a pet store, so asked him whether he was going to a pet store to get a puppy. He said yes. I told him "you know, we have to walk the dog everyday. We are living in an apartment, so there is no other option. We have to take him out every morning and every night. But knowing you, you do not want to do that - why don't we wait until we get a house?"

He said he wants the puppy now, and he will walk the dog. I asked him again "are you sure? Are you going to walk the dog even when it is cold and raining outside?" He said yes, sure.

You know what happened? We got a puppy, but after ONLY 3 days, he complained it was too much work!!! He took our puppy and tried to return him to the pet store (of course I stopped him and yelled at him for being very irresponsible, but he was so mad and did not listen to me). I was trying to block his way but he left with the dog. But the store obviously did not take the puppy back, so he ended up staying with us. It has always been in STBX's blood, I guess. He only wants "fun" when it is convinient for him.

He claimed "you are not fun Milk", and therefore he wants to end this M. The reason he does not think I was no longer fun is because now I talk about reality and responsibility. I asked him to not watch violent movies in front of DS3. I asked him to get rid of his guns or to at least lock his guns. I asked him to spend time with his son playing outside when it is nice outside, instead of always putting DS3 in front of TV. I asked him to limit his time playing computer games (otherwise he was spending all day Saturday and Sunday playing computer games). I asked him to stop smoking marijuana. I asked him to take turns with me to take DS3 to bed and read stories for him.

All of these things ended up taking his "personal" time away, and he felt so heavy and chained. But I don't think I asked anything unreasonable or unheard of! But in his mind, these are not "fun" things.

No matter who he ends up being with, a NORMAL woman would demand normal level of responsibility and STBX would soon feel the same again - no more fun or freedom.

It is just very unfortunate that he did not realize that having and rasing our child is a big responsibility, and he cannot always priortize his needs any more.

Hey Milk-
Glad you are back, and glad that your trip was good !
I'm sure having a change of scenery, family support, and
a break was wonderful.

Sorry you had to deal with your WH being a jerk as soon as
you returned. His behavior with just wanting to have your
son when it was "convenient" or "easy" for him sure is very
inmature to say the least. I think our H's are much alike
in that area- which is probably why mine did not want to
have any kids (too selfish to take the time or effort).
We too, got a puppy together, and although my H is very
doting and affectionate with her (and truly does love her,
I believe), you know who it is that has her now, walks her,
takes her to the vet, plays with her, pets her, feeds her,
etc !!! (yes, it's me !)

Don't know if it's due to their upbringing, a faulty "gene",
a character flaw, or what- but our WH's sure seem to have
the similiar traits of being very narcisstic, selfish, and
inmature.
I definitely think part of my WH's behaviors in our M have been the result of his being in a very disfunctional family.
My MIL is a very sweet lady, but I can see that she has
very definitely "worn the pants" in the family, she worries
to excess over everything and everyone, and tries to handle
everything for everyone, to the extend that my WH has never
had to handle anything for himself, and has never had to
take responsibility for anything. His mother would probably
say that they are a very close family, and my H would say
they aren't close at all- he doesn't talk to them about
anything, doesn't consider anything "their business", and
does not have any respect for them either.
The longer I've known him, and them, I've also realized
there are some other issues in their family (both alcoholism
and depression) that I wish I had known about before !
If I recall, you've also said your WH's family had issues-

Nothing new has really happened in my sitch while you've
been gone. WH did move out of OW's house and rented a room
for himself a little over a month ago, but I am certain he
is still involved with her, spending the weekends and some
nights at her house (kind of stupid he is spending the $$$
to have a place if he never stays there). I was very hurt
that he apparently spent Thanksgiving with her, leaving me
and the dog home alone. He really made me mad when we talked
the night before- he said he assumed I'd be doing something
with my parents. I said "no, that they had volunteered to
help serve the holiday dinner at the homeless shelter", and
he said "they sure didn't have their priorities straight ".
I couldn't believe this, coming from the mouth of a man who
deserted his family and home to spend the holiday with the
stupid w***e !!!! I did end up having an okay day as friends
invited me over, but just the thought was sad ....
On Friday, WH called me in the morning and seemed very
grumpy. He asked if I wanted to meet for lunch, which we did, although we were at a loud sport bar type place, and
it was hard to talk. He also called me later in the day,
and again the evening, both with no real purpose or need.
Didn't hear anything Saturday (never do, assume he's at OW)
but he stopped by yesterday, as usual, to get his mail,
drop off receipts, etc.
Lately we've been talking a bit more about "what we are going to do", and how we feel (although his feelings seem to change quicker than the weather). He has indicated he does remember our special times together, misses "us", thinks of me and the dog, and hasn't "written off" the M, but then has also said he thinks it "isn't just that simple" to get back together, thinks there is much "water under the bridge", says he isn't happy (his usual speech), etc. so it appears he is just still very back-and-forth, confused, and unsure.
I've tried to stay calm and quiet when we talk, and to try
to really listen. I've agreed that getting back together
wouldn't be easy, would take much work, that we would need
to do counseling, that I still think he needs to do indiv.
counseling for his issues, that it would take hard work and
change. I've tried to reiterate my willingness to do the
work and give us a chance, but also said I can only work
on and control my part in things, not his.
He's pretty cowardly, so I kind of wonder if he sort of
wants to end things with OW but doesn't know how. From my
conversations with her, I feel she is a very agressive, "in
your face" type (totally opposite of me) and can probably
be very nasty too, so maybe hard for him to make a break.
Kinda funny that I think of it that way- he sure had no
problem with just blowing me off !

I think you handled the phone calls and nasty message from
your WH really well because you kept your cool, but were
polite, firm , and set a boundary there. My Wh is kind of
the same, in that if he can't reach me, he keeps trying
and acts almost in a panic. For example, I got out of
the shower Friday night, and the phone rang a minute later.
It was WH, and he said- "Why aren't you answering the phone-
I've been trying to reach you", and he seemed mad. I said
"I just got out of the shower". Then, he calmed down and
we talked, but I later looked at the Caller Id, and he had
tried three times within 15 minutes- !
Like we've said before- it seems to be ALL about them.

You are doing great with DS3, and handling things with WH
really well- hang in there !
Slammed

Thanks slammed.

Yes, I do see many similarities in your and Daisy's WH's with mine. They avoid responsibility and act inmaturely. And like you pointed out, it is all about them.

STBX's family has many issues too. Their biological mother passed away when STBX was only 22 months old. Then the stepmom came in, but apparently she had a drinking problem. When STBX was diagnosed with a sexual addiction, his counselor told him that most likely he has been sexually abbused when he was little. He does not remember, but when I read some books about sex addiction, they all said that many of those who have similar simptons as STBX were sexually abused. In fact his brother told me that he was sexually abused by one of the baby sitters and it is very possible that STBX was too.

Both his brother and sister suffered from depression and were on medication. Two of his sisters have a drinking problem. Yes, I did not know any of these before marriage -I wish I had known!!!

You are right, slammed, our WH's have many issues due to their upbringing and/or DNA and/or their weakness in handling responsibility/stress.

I cannot believe what your H said - "they sure didn't have their priorities straight"!!! From the man who totally screwed up his prioirities!!! STBX has said to me that he could not trust me, but I couldn't believe he said that to me! At least I did not intentionally lie to him while he kept lying to me about almost everything! They want to believe they are the "victims". As long as they continue to have this "victim" mentality, nothing is going to change, as they are basically blaming everyone else but themselves.

I do not have any hope for my STBX to turn arnound now. I wish I could say otherwise, but I think he is just too broken mentally. He lives in this unrealistic fantasy world and he has always been the poor little victim. He has always been selfish and there is no reason for him to change that. If he "chooses" to become more responsible, his life will become more stressful. He cannot handle stress well. There is no incentive for him to become more responsible. He just wants to "take it easy". He said I am no fun for him, so I said "I am no fun for you because I never sat down to smoke pot with you". He said "that is not true, I am not smoking anymore, that is a history". He has said this exact sentence to me for at least a dozen times in the past, but after a few weeks, I always found a new pot in his car. I am not saying he is still smoking - it is possible that he does not smoke (although I highly doubt that he has completely quit it), but his personality is so weak that he cannot stick to anything till the end. He always falls for an easy way out. This personality attribute must have made the whole thing much harder, I am sure.

Hey Milk.....

Thank you for your thoughts on my thread.....

You really seem to be handeling this well <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />. You sound like you have accepted this (as much as you can). I know you are right....I am glad I don't have children to deal with.....I wanted children but I would not want to impose this on them....... Some people tell me that I am lucky that I can have a fresh start...there is nothing holding us together.....But when you sit in my boat....it is not such a comforting thought at this moment to know that there is nothing that ties me to him........kind of sad.

Sometimes I wish he was mean to me....but then he was in the summer and that did not make this situation any easier to deal with <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />......I feel like Jean36 sometimes.....I want to ride this way out all the way to the pits of he$$ till I have nothing left......not a good way to go....so I'll try to stick with option B.....getting my life together......somehow....

All the best...hang in there......

I really cannot believe you H expects that you are there waiting to answer his phone at any moment. He will have to face reality that he will not be able to speak or see his son when he gets the inclination to do so.....that is reality.....something he will need to face....

Daisy

Hey Milk and Daisy-
As another one in the same boat, I understand and agree that
I'm also probably lucky that WH and I don't have kids.

I feel sad though, because that was a dream of mine, and
back when WH was my H, we did plan on having kids.
I supposed my asking and "bugging" about it in the past
year and more has been something that probably put more
pressure on WH and more negative strikes against me in
his mind, but it was important to me and my clock is
really ticking, so I felt very anxious about it and kept
thinking H would change his mind. Little did I know that
he was off in fantasy land so thinking about me, having
a family, or staying grounded in reality were the last
thing on his mind.

I am so glad I have our dog. I'd feel really lonely and
scared without her and have sometimes felt like her needing
me and being there as a companion have been the thing that's
made me get up and keep going. I wouldn't give her up for
anything, but also do realize that having her is going to
make things a little more complicated if we D, because it
will be harder to find a place that allows pets, she needs
a yard, her food, vet, and supplies are expensive, etc.
She has been like our "kid", and I don't know how we would
handle him having "visitation" with her, if he wanted to.
Milk- you mentioned you having a dog- any issues with that
and your H, as far as him missing or wanting to see the pet?
Daisy- do you have any pets ?

I feel sad because even if we D and I eventually met someone
else, it would be too late for me to have kids. I feel much
anger towards WH for this sometimes, because I feel like he
"stole" my chance. Guess this is one issue that I'm going to
have to work on accepting and get over, but it's a touchy
subject for sure.

Funny how these WH's don't want us to want or expect
anything from them, but they sure do want us to be at their
"beck and call" as far as answering their calls, helping them out, doing them favors, etc. I think it's a sure sign
of how out of reality they must be. In my case, my IC has
said my WH's phone habits (getting upset or in a panic if
he can't immediately reach me) are a symptom of his OCD
(Obsessive-compulsive disorder).

I think all our H's are going to really get "bit" by reality
one of these days -
Slammed

Hi Daisy and Slammed -

Thanks for being there to listen. Daisy, I never thought I could "accept" this - but now I really realize that STBX is not the person once I knew. Or, who knows, he could have always been WH and he hid it so well that I did not know. Now I really do not know what to believe. All what I know is that he is now a mean, vindictive, selfish, and irresponsible liar. Slammed, you mentioned your WH's calling habits are a symtpom of his OCD - that is so true. Both STBX and one of his sisters have OCD and ADHD, and they both act in the same way! They keep calling until they get a hold of the person. You would think, if someone do not answer the phone, it must be because he/she is not home or he/she is busy and cannot come to the phone, so even if you keep calling every 10 seconds, the situation will not likely be different, but STBX and his sister would just keep calling literally every 5 seconds to the same number and then would try different numbers. It's almost scary.

STBX once was obssesed with me sexually (due to his OCD and his SA) but then he started to get obssesed over other women - now he is obssesed with the idea of divorcing. He believes he will be happy once everything settles. He cannot think of anything else.

Yes, definitely all of our H's are going to face the hard reality. In a way, Slammed, your H is sort of facing the reality b/c OW kicked him out (if she was telling you the truth), and he is not really quite with anyone (not committed to OW nor you). But then again, he thinks he can get away with this b/c he believes people around him are so patient and would wait for him to come to his senses, regardless of pains and suffering he has caused.

I wanted STBX to feel lonely and sad without us, but now I don't neccessarily wish that b/c I do not want him to keep bothering us in the future. For DS3's sake, I hope he will stop obsessing over his son and stop acting crazy around him (because he is insecure, he would ask DS3 if he loves his daddy and he would tell DS3 that he is the only daddy to him, etc.). Even though the thought is still very sad and depressing, if STBX finds another woman, in a way, that might be the best for everyone since he will likely stop obsessing over his son and I would have a peace of mind b/c I do not need to deal with him all the time.

To answer your question, Slammed, we have a dog, and he has been our "child" for a very long time until we had DS3 three years ago. Yet, STBX does not seem to miss him very much. Initially when he moved out he said he would take the dog with him (he found a pet-ok apartment), but that never happened and I have been the one who has been taking him to his vet, giving him a bath, brushes him, feeds him, and plays with him. Which is fine, because he is my first baby and I want DS3 to be with the dog as well. Since DS3 does not have siblings, I am glad that at least DS3 can play and fight with the dog. Still, I do not understand why STBX does not even miss his dog. I think he does, from time to time, but he does not miss the work associated with it.

In the past, STBX would come by every other weekend to pick up DS3, and that time he could see our dog as well. For a couple of times when I had to travel (including this time), he kept the dog and seemed to have enjoyed the company.

I know how hard the subject of having a child would be for you, Slammed. But I honestly believe in your current situation, you are much better off not having kids with your WH. It is hard as it is for us to deal with this emotionally, but if you have a child, you have to act strong at home to protect your child and also your child will constantly remind you of WH, which I feel the hardest thing to deal with. DS3 would still say things like "do you remember when I was a baby Papa was driving this car and you were sitting here and I was sitting in the back?", "Mama, do you remember we went to skating with Papa?", etc. It is very difficult to handle. On top of these emotional challenge, you need to deal with visitation schedule, custody, child support, etc., all the unpleasant things.

And you do not know if you are not going to have kids or not in the future. For one thing, there are quite a few people who had kids at your age, including those who "were not planning on". Secondly, you may meet someone who already has kids, or like OSXgirl is planning, you can adopt kids as well. Like you, I have been very mad at my STBX about this as well, since I wanted to have a second child and I feel that he has "stolen" my prime time. But now I feel things will work out in the end, and given STBX's personality and mental issues, maybe it was a good thing that we did not have another one who has STBX's gene who could have similar problems in the future.

Milk-
The phone behavior you describe with your STBX and his
family members certainly does sound exactly like that of my
WH- glad someone else has experienced the same thing.
Seems like he also falls into "obsessing" with a particular
thing or person and can't quit with that - like putting
his total effort and energy into a project he has going at
work, or his efforts pursue his OW.
Just wish he would have ever put that much effort and energy
into the marriage- maybe it would still be intact !

Your description of your STBX obsessive behavior about sex
really rings a bell with me too- WH always says his looking
at porn, cruising the internet sites, etc. was just due to
"curiosity", but I believe this became an obsession, and
eventually it became an obsession and maybe a "challenge"
to pursue the OW.
I would think now that the A has been exposed and both he
and OW know the other is a liar that the fantasy bubble may
have been burst and WH would have at least a little taste of
reality. He seemed truly lost, lonely , a little scared,
and less foggy for a few days after their "break up", but
that might have been what led him to get back with her- he couldn't handle the "withdrawal". I do believe that she
kicked him out and she may have intended to end things, but
he can be pretty charming and I have no doubt he "wooed" her
back with more promises and lies.
I think you are absolutely right when you say he now has
no real committment to either me or OW. I think he may
"think" he is trying to decide and sort things out, but he's
been in this "limbo" mode for a long time, and I don't see
anything changing- I just don't think he is capable of it.
The only thing I think would possibly make a difference is
him getting a counselor and so far, he still hasn't made an
appointment, even though he still says he's going to !
And I think you are right on, when you say he thinks that
I will just keep waiting and be willing to take him back
regardless of it all..... (and I guess I haven't really
done anything to show him wrong about this either !)

I understand what you are saying about kind of wanting WH's
to feel bad and miss us, but also about wanting them to move
on and leave us alone- I have thought of that too. In that
way I am maybe fortunate that we don't have children that
will keep my Wh and I having to have future dealings. You
are probably very right that yours may also change when he
has something new to obsess about and less you have to deal
with.

I'm glad you (and DS3) have your dog too. Mine has been a
life saver to me (I tell her she is my guardian angel). I
do believe that WH misses her- he always asks about her and
what she is doing, gives me "messages" for her, and plays
with her when he comes over. I think the regrets and sadness
he may feel about deserting us are probably for her, not me.

You are very understanding of how I feel about not being able to have had kids with WH. I do think it's probably best
given the additional financial and emotional burden it would
be, and even if we were together, I know that I would have
probably ended up being the care-taker since I have been the
one who has taken care of almost everything in our life
together. I have thought that WH was being very selfish in
"changing his mind" about having kids after we were planning
to have some, but in a way I think even him had to admit he
is not a good father to his other kids, is not patient,
and would not have been much of a participant. I have a bit
of concern, as you've said, about the possibility of some
genetic issues with him too-

I don't know if I can do a true Plan B (WH pays most of our
bills, his belongings are still at our house, he wants to
see dog, and I don't have anyone to be an intermediary), and
also don't know if it would help in our situation, but am
thinking that I may just try to go as "dark" as possible-
not calling WH at all (I rarely do now- mostly just to pass
on phone messages or discuss financial issues), not showing
any interest or asking about getting together, not asking
to talk about R/M, etc. What do you think ?>

Thanks Slammed. It's so difficult when we have to deal with someone who has emotional/mental disorders, eh. I have given up. I did not want to, but in order for me to move on, I have to. I cannot fix his mental problems, and no matter what I do/say, he has decided that I am the bad guy, so there is really nothing I can do. I cannot control his behaviors or thinking. I am just very sad that he is the father of my son and he is the person I have spent the past 15 years with and he is the one I have always believed the sweetest person in the world. It will be difficult for me to be able to trust other men for a while, I think.

At the same time, I DO want to meet someone. I do not want to live like this forever. I do not want to be depressed about simple things, such as not having any plans for Friday nights when I do not have DS3 around or something. If you have a family, it really does not matter, you could just stay home and watch TV together or something. I want to have someone I can share my feelings with - I want to be able to share how happy I was to see DS3 doing so and so, or how happy I was to hear from my old friends, or how I made a mistake at work, or my train was late, or anything. I used to think there is nothing so special or unusual about being married, but now I feel being able to do such simple things with your partner you can trust can be a very difficult thing to acheive!

You're right Milk- it's very difficult to live with and deal
with a person who has emotional/mental problems/addictions !
The most frustrating thing to me is not being able to help
or do anything about it and that WH hasn't done anything
about it. So hard to believe a person who is grumpy, moody,
miserable and unhappy would not want to get help and help
themselves feel better, but I suppose they get so used to
it that they don't realize how they are is not "normal". ?

I am having a hard time too, with trying to understand who
my real H/WH was or is, why/how he has become like he is now, and how much of him now is the A and how much is the
other stuff. No way to know that...

I am really missing the good parts of our lives together-
thinking of things we did, hoped for, planned, and so many
things I would like to change if I only could- but think
that's just part of today's down and sentimental mood, and
know that I can't change anything. I am also having a hard
time with breaking the habit to call WH- when something goes
well or badly, I was so used to him being the first person
I'd want to talk to.

I think you are right about it being very hard to trust
people (esp men) after all we've been through. I think my
protection wall has come up much higher and will probably
stay that way for a long time to come...

Hope your evening is good-
Slammed

Milk...


I feel like this. I keep thinking I miss my best friend. To just share the day to day business.....like what a pain driving in the snow is (but he knows that!) etc...

How are you doing these days Milk? Are you and H just civil to each other now....no talking otherwise.....that must be hard. Is the D process going ok for you......the last time I remember your H was talking like he was going to get it all....I hope it is not too stressful for you.....

You sound like you are in a good place.....I wish I could be there as well......take care milk.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Daisy

Thanks Slammed and Daisy.

I am actually not doing so well yesterday and today. I finally sent my settlment proposal to STBXH, and his response was "totally unacceptable". Then he started to subtract "rent" I did not pay for the first few months I came here to marry him (we are talking about 12 years ago!!!), since I started to work 2 and a half months after our wedding. Then he subtracted two years when I did not pay mortgage b/c (1) I was working overseas and (2) I was unemployed. These are 5-6 years ago. Besides, when I was overseas I made a lot more money and basically brought it all back and paid for the house, which we are dividing, so he IS getting my money I made during the period.

But the point is, seeing him doing such "nickel and dime" subtractions made me so sad. Also he is insisting on joint custody and he even wants to negotiate with me on the STATE REQUIRED child support, which is 20% of his net income. He wants to bring it down to 15%, but this is not up to me, this is required by law.

Then he said (these are all communicated through email) the reason he left me is b/c I was verbally abusive and unaffectionate and cold towards him and he did not realize how bad it was. That really hurt me.

First, we did fight a lot in recent years, but I was complaining about his smoking (cigarrets and marijuana), about his numerous broken promises, about his staring at other women every time we went out, about his not being participating in raising our child, about him spending whole weekend in front of TV and playing computer games, etc., which I feel anyone would have complained. Yes, maybe I could have "asked" him to change instead of "nagging", and that is what I am sorry for, but I do not think not liking these behaviors was wrong. But it was certainly not like he was a saint and I was calling him bad names or anything. Besides, STBXH always cursed, which I hated, and one time we were fighting and he threatened me cursing, and he got so close to me with his face being an inch away from my face that I got scared and called the police. In the end he did not hit me and I told the police nothing happened, so they did not file anything, but he was more verbally nasty (use of "f" words).

All of these analyzing is not going to do any good, I know. I am just feeling sad to be misunderstood. STBX used to always say I am so sweet and innocent and said to others how proud he is of me, etc. Now he portraits me as if I am some kind of monster, which truly hurts me. I should not care, but I cannot help it. This is the man I spent the last 15 years with. I had a vision that we would grow old together. And I am hearing these harsh words from him. It hurts tremendously. And for him to subtract rent (!!) from 12 years ago! He asked me to come all the way here to marry him. So I flew. I came, and of course I did not have a job back then. And now he regret that?? He feels I owe him? It's just too sad.

Tomorrow he is coming to pick DS3 up in the morning. I really DO NOT look forward to seeing him. I am hurt, but I miss good old H. I miss him so much. Where is he?

Milk

There is a guy who works here who went through divorce as well. Last year when STBX dropped the bomb, I told him about it and he told me how he himself was considering a divorce. Because I am on the other side of the equation, I asked him why he could not try to save the marriage, and he said he had enough and was done.

Then yesterday when I spoke to him, I noticed a ring on his finger (within a year!!) so asked if he is married again. He said yes, but said
"I don't recommend to jump right into another marriage"
Me "why do you say that?"
He "because the issues were with me. I had complaints about my XW, but then now this new wife has a whole different set of things I do not like about, so I really could have stayed married to my previous wife and worked on those issues. I had to work on myself and the problem was I was not happy, not because of my XW. So I feel I should have stayed. If this marriage is not going to work, I am not going to get married again".

It was interesting to see how he who was so confident about divorcing a year ago is now regretting that he did not stay.

Would this ever happen to my STBXH? I don't know, I am afraid it won't for a very long time or never, but I DO really wish it would. I know I should not care how I am being perceived by STBXH, but since I cannot help it, if at least in the future I learn that he is regretting and does not feel I was such a monster after all, I would feel much better. I do not want to be hated by a father of my child.

I know I have to be PAST this stage, but it still hurts to think that STBXH and I are negotiating over DS3 and money.

Would I ever be able to heal? The pain is not going away...