Milk.....so sorry.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I know I should not care how I am being perceived by STBXH, but since I cannot help it, if at least in the future I learn that he is regretting and does not feel I was such a monster after all, I would feel much better.

This is becoming the worse part for me. H does not yell at me or anything....but the thought that he sees me as this gigantic mistake that messed up his life is painful to me. The way he presents it to others our M comes of as just a big mistake...like the fact that it was hard made it somehow stand out from everyone elses....I am almost willing to bet that my H will be just like your co-worker in several years....when he is in the next R. I can bet a lot on it! He still sees me as the wrong person for him....I am really hurt by it, by all the stuff he tells others....

I am sorry for your pain.....dealing with your STBXH (I am probably going to switch to that term soon <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />). I am tired. This last piece of info hit me hard. No, have not cried yet. But it did something to me. I think I finally realized that he is gone.....no amount of planning will turn him back because he does not want to hear or even believe we could work....that would intale some action on his part and for him it is just easier to believe he was never happy with me......ok, so it was not easy, but I cannot say we were unhappy....I guess I did not know what was going on through H's mind at all......

I know how you feel.....the pain will go away.....it will be hard...but you'll get to a place where you will be happy again......

Daisy

Thanks Daisy. We all need each other.

I talked to STBX's brother today. He is a Christian. He said "I still think what my brother did and is doing is wrong. I know it is horrible. I know how difficult it is for you. But unfortunately he made this decision and we cannot change that. I am not saying that in the future he may change his mind, but it is not happening now and we all have to move on in life at some point. You have to be strong b/c DS3 looks up for you and if you are unhappy, he will feel it and will be unhappy too. I know it is difficult but you should pray. You should pray not for your husband's return, or the situation to be different, but you should pray for strength. You need strength to get through this".

These are all what I have heard over the course of the past 12 months, but those words this time really hit me. I need to move on. I have to have a new life.

Then I spoke to a lady I meet at church. After talking to two people, I was feeling a little calmer, trying to accepting the reality that I have lost my husband completely.

Then I called him to arrange his pick up of DS3 tomorrow morning, and he asked if I have received his counter offer yesterday. I said yes, but was not ready to discuss anything over the phone while I was driving. He said okay, but then immediately pursued by saying "you know, don't take it personal, but I need that kind of money and it is only fair. Also I cannot give you 20% of my net income, that's just too much. I don't make a lot. I give you 15% and that is it. I am going to fight for it, I mean it. If you are going to be nice about it, I will give you money when DS3 needs it".

Again, 20% is a state required amount and I have no idea why STBX feels that this is negotiable. But I did not say anything. I just listened and said "well, we can talk later". Then he asked "when?" I said "later". He got frustrated and tried to push further so I told him "I am driving, we can talk about this later".

I cannot believe how cheap he has become. How selfish and cold and calculating and tacky. Don't take it personal?? He does not even want to pay a state required amount for his own son whom he claims he loves so much???

When I was talking to those two people prior to talking to STBX, I still had sadness and feelings for him, but after talking to him, I got really disguised. Look at the kind of person he has become! Can he ever tell his son what he has done to his family? That he even refused to pay a proper amount of child support? That he promised to give me so much and ended up fighting for every single penny?

It is just so pitiful. He is so low. That is the guy I was in love with???

Hi Milk.

I feel exactly the same way. My STBX is letting our bills bounce sky high and has arranged to have his salary paid into a new account in his name only so I can't pay for anything. He is paying me no CS.

I'm on welfare, and he has been on four holidays with OW since he left us.

I can't help it - I feel he is despicable and weak. So selfish.

Thinking of you.

Alph.

Good morning Milk-
I'm so sorry for your pain, and that you are having to deal
with STBXH acting as he is.
I have said it before, but the way he is acting just speaks
SO much of cowardice and a weak person.
I don't think for a moment that your H really thinks of you or your marriage as a mistake, or that he believes you have treated him poorly- his doings have been ALL of his own
poor judgement, lack of character, mental/emotional issues
and addictions, and not anything you have done or not done.

I think your response to him was good- and I wouldn't even
continue a conversation with him regarding the settlement.
I would tell him, as he did you, that "his offer is not
acceptable" and then let the lawyers deal with it.
As you said, CS is done by a pre-determined formula and is not a negotiable item, and a bunch of his other stuff is just totally petty and not anything that has any legal bearing on anything. Sounds like he is trying to just
"bully" you, trying to get pity, and then giving you the
very empty promise of giving you money for DS3 "if you
are nice". You aren't being nice or not being nice- you
are just trying to reach a fair, equitable settlement that
is reasonable for you and DS3, and he shouldn't "take that
personally" either !!

Hang in there Milk !
Slammed

I have been able to sleep. I feel I am going crazy. This is the biggest betrayal I have ever experienced. How can he do this to his son? Despite his comment "money is not important to me...." early on, obviously money is VERY important to him.

I just hate going through the legal battle, but it seems it is inevitable. I was the person he loved the most 15 years ago, and now I am the person he hates and wants to hurt the most??

I have lost faith. No matter what I do and pray, things do not change. Even though I was trying to show my love for him he got nastier and nastier. There is no such thing as justice in this world. He will do whatever he wants to do and S3 and I will end up paying the price, not him. It doesn't matter what I believe. At the end of the day, DS3 and I suffer, no matter what.

I miss DS3 so much and can't bear the thought that going forward I will not have him around every other weekend.... pretty much until he grows up. That is a long time. He is my life, and I don't know how to get over this.

(((milkshake)))

I am sorry you are having a rough day.

I know it feels that way at the moment. Things are horrible for you and DS, and I am so sorry about that.

But it will get better.

I do believe there is justice in this world, call it karma if you like. He will regret his terrible choices one day, of that you can be certain.

And, this world or the next, he will be called to account.

Peace to you.

Alph.

Thank you Jean and Alphin for your support and comfort.

"I do believe there is justice in this world, call it karma if you like. He will regret his terrible choices one day, of that you can be certain."

Alphin, thank you for saying this. I have believed it before, and now I do not know what to believe, but knowing that there are people who strongly believe that there is justice makes me feel a bit stronger. I REALLY do want to believe that.

Another week...., it is so hard to stay positive... how is everyone doing this?

I thought I would be in a better shape in a year 12 months ago, yet I am still severly hurt and grieving. I don't understand why it is so hard for me to "accept" the reality, reality that STBXH has moved on and does not want me anymore.

Milk....

You are in a better place then 12 months ago...please believe that.....I think the D brings a lot of the pain and memories to the surface. You were just served not so long ago and the fact that your STBXH is playing hard ball is painfull as well....but know that you are in a better place....

Hang in there.....{{{{{{milk}}}}}}

Daisy

Thank you Daisy. I guess I get scared when I feel that I am not making any progress in terms of healing. A lot of people move on only after a few months, and I really don't understand what my hungup is... I hate feeling weak.

Milk......this has nothing to do with weakness....we all heal in our own time and there are some days that are just hard. I was doing much better a month ago....Now, I miss my H so much....it is hard to get through just hours knowing that he is not part of my life.....

But remeber it is not about being weak.....

Don't be hard on yourself.

Daisy

Thanks Daisy. I know, you are experiencing the similar thing, in terms of inner struggle. You sounded fine months ago and now you may be down.... I guess it is a natural cycle we all go through. I just felt that after a year, I would not have this much feeling left. I don't really think this is so much about him anymore though - it is more about the sense of betrayal and the fact it is my son's father.

How are you doing these days?

Good morning Milk~
I think you are right about us all going through some cycles
of up and down, and I think the holiday season just seems to
exaggerate all the emotions too.
I have been seeing some small and subtle changes and have
wonderered if they were good signs of WH moving a little
closer to me. He's been a little more open and talking about his feelings and thoughts, and has seemed to be
spending less time with OW.
I was very surprised to get a call from him Sat morning-
as normally we've had no contact on Saturdays (I've assumed
he stays overnight Fri and spends the day with OW). Later
in the day he called again- said he had worked part of the
day and was out running errands. I started to say "how
about us working on things..." but cut myself off, fearful
that I shouldn't say anything. He then called me back a bit
later and asked me what I was going to say. I told him it
seemed like things were going a little better, and just
wondered if we could maybe work on things, taking it slow,
going to counseling, etc. He didn't commit, but did say
"maybe we could", which was the most positive thing he's
said in ages...also said he'd call me Sunday and maybe we
could go to lunch or do something together.

Yesterday he called late morning, and asked if I wanted to
meet at a local sports bar for lunch and to see part of a
football game. I got there first, and was seated, and he was
30 minutes late ! Although I thought it odd and rude, I
didn't say anything when he got there. (assumed he was on
the phone with OW, or on the internet once again !) We
ate, watched the game and talked a little. Instead of
seeming open and friendly like he has been lately, and
instead of being positive like Sat., he seemed completely
opposite- negative, grouchy, moody, and quiet. I asked if
something was wrong and he said "no". I asked if he still
thought we could work on things, and he was totally back to
his previous (negative) chain of thought- saying he was
"always" unhappy being married, really didn't think there
was a reason to try, that my talking to him and asking him
questions reminded him of things he didn't like about me/
and or the marriage, that nothing had changed, etc.
I was totally taken aback- felt like a slap in the face and
like being with a totally cold, distant stranger. Guess I
tried too hard, and got my hopes up, just to be knocked
down AGAIN !!
After we left, WH called me. Said he couldn't understand
why I wouldn't just understand that he was unhappy and that
it had nothing to do with his depression, etc. I tried to be very calm, quiet, and respectful even though I don't agree with him, and just said it seemed like he had been unhappy and discontent as long as I'd known him and that
he'd changed jobs, cars, homes, even people, and still
wasn't happy or content, so didn't he consider the thought
that it might be in HIM, whether it be depression, MLC,
or something else, and wouldn't it be worth it to try to
get to the root of it, before blaming it all on me or the
marriage, and giving up on us ? He just seems to totally
fixed on it having to be me, and being married, that it
doesn't seem like anything I do will make any difference-
He also said he'd really "never" had fun with me, nothing
we did really "meant" anything to him, we had nothing in
common, and brought up a lot of little things, like my
not going to the gym as often as he thought I should, had
fussed about moving to another town when he had a job offer,
etc. Made me feel like he was just re-writing and knocking
all the things I've felt were special, and I was now the
"bad guy" even though he's the one who lied, and cheated !
I tried not to LB, but did defend myself to some degree,
tried to give my opinion, and tried to show that while I
accepted responsibility for myself and my actions, I was
not taking responsibility for his actions and choices.
Mostly though, I felt like nothing I could say was going to
make any difference. (I know you know this feeling and have the same situation too! ).
WH called again later- just continued on this same train of
thought- also said "you seem to always blame and think
everything has been me, why don't you ever look in the
mirror or think it could have anything to do with you ?"
This made me feel really hurt, but I didn't react- just
said I had done a lot of soul-searching, was going to
counseling as he knew, had made changes, and had realized
lots of things I'd do different in a marriage, given a chance. (some of which I've told him before). He just said
" well, the counseling must not be helping very much", which
I thought was very hurtful and rude, especially since he
won't even go to counseling !!

After we hung up, I went on to a church program, but felt
sad and miserable the rest of the night, and didn't sleep
very well. I just feel rather stunned and "shell shocked"
after what seemed like a total turn around from how he
acted lately, and especially just a day prior-
It made me feel like something must have happened- either
OW is really putting pressure on him and putting negative
thoughts about me and our M on him, they had a fight, he
met someone else, or something......

We had been talking everyday lately, and WH said he might
come to my office party and concert later this week. Now
I don't know if I should even mention it-
I re-read part of the "Divorce Remedy" last night and feel
like we fall into the pattern where the book recommends
the "Last Resort Technique", which is much like Plan B,
and maybe that's the only thing left that I can do-
Please give me your thoughts.. and know I'm thinking of you
and DS3, and praying for your strength, courage, comfort
and energy.
Slammed

Hi Slammed,

I am so sorry you are so hurt and going through this. It really sounds to me your WH's mind is working just like my STBXH's, or any other WH's. Which is, "I am not happy", "I do not feel connected", "I do not see any hope in this marriage", "I do not have fun with my wife", etc.

These are all the same things STBXH has told me. And I heard a lot of others have said the same/similar things.

People have told me this: "you cannot reason STBXH". That is how I feel about your WH as well. What you are saying makes sense (that both you and your WH take responsibility for this failing marriage, but you are willing to make changes to save your marriage while your WH is avoiding any hard work and just wants to escape from it) to me, but he does not see the point. He cannot hear what you are saying.

The fact you were there early yesterday for lunch and even though he showed up 30 minutes late, you "forgave" him by not saying anything about it. He must feel you are available all the time, and if he screws up other relationships with other women, you will always there for him. I think he still DOES have connection with you and feelings for you. Yet, because he feels you are kind of his "last resort", he may not feel the necessity of working hard to make this relationship work.

I do not know you recall, but sometime in the summer, even though by then STBXH was sure that he wants nothing but divorce, he felt that there might be other man in my life. He asked me if I have "met" someone. Unfortunately, this thing was not strong enough to stop him from what he was doing, the fact he asked and seemed upset tells me even though he wants "out", he wants to be free, and he does not work on our marriage, it was not like he was completely "okay" with me dating other guy. This happened to even my STBXH, who I feel is a lot more detached from me than your WH.

I think your WH is trying to "convince" him that divorce is the only way - just like my STBXH did. Yet he is not 100% sure, so he talks and meets up with you. Then he hears from you how you two should "work" on your marriage, etc....., even though what you are saying is true, he does not want to hear it b/c he must feel he is being pressured.

Maybe you should stop pressuring him by bringing up your R. If this is going to work out, he has to remember how important you are to him, and not because he is forced to stay in the relationship, b/c then he will always use that as an excuse and you will always be the "bad guy" in his mind. And if this is not going to work out, the sooner you detach from your WH, the better off you will be.

I know it is easier said than done. I have struggled with this. I have done the same thing you have or you are doing. Frankly, I am not sure if STBXH would have stayed had I not done those things, because I feel my case might be kind of severe. STBXH has too much baggage. He has always had issues about his upbringing, he has always used drugs when he was stressed out, and he has always sort of "day dreamed" about being with another woman. Combined with his midlife crisis and the first child, and additional stress from his work which he ended up loosing - the problem just snowballed, and he must have felt he was suffocating.

I still feel very betrayed and unfair, b/c these are his issues and he is blaming me for his issues and as long as he get divorced, he is saying that his problems will go away, which I know is not true. But I cannot change how he feels. Your WH is the same way. Maybe you have to let HIM realize that problems are within HIM, not in the marriage.

I am struggling too every day - my girlfriend told me to do this every morning: I have to tell myself "I am not going to let STBXH hurt me, he has hurt me enough, and I will not let him hurt me anymore. I will not let him ruin my life. My happiness is not determined by STBXH. He is the one who has so much baggage, and I will be fine once I move on, my only baggage will be this marriage that went sour. He has a lot more issues. I will be fine, and I will not let him ruin my day".

I did that this morning, b/c I was feeling depressed, betrayed, confused, scared, and angry again. I am going to tell myself this over and over as often as needed from now on. Maybe you can do this to yourself too.

Hugs,
Milk

Thanks so much, Milk.
Everything you've said really does make sense to me, as our
WH's have been SO alike, even down to the things that they
say, and the way they blame everyone/everything else BUT
themselves for their unhappiness in life. I think both of
them feel that just "getting free" will magically solve all
their problems and they will suddenly "be happy", when we
know that will not be true-

I just feel so frustrated wanting WH to realize this before
it's too late. I have asked him, " what if we divorce, and
then you realize you made a mistake ?", and his reply has
been "then he will just have to live with it". Makes me feel
sad because I will have to live with it too- and I'm the
one who will suffer financially and emotionally, not him.

I do remember you saying your WH had "issues" regarding the
possibility of you seeing someone else, and although I
haven't had that same situation, my WH does seem to have some concern when he can't reach me right away, wants to know what I'm doing, etc. Maybe I do need to be a little
more "mysterious" and not always so available to him, so
he will realize I'm not just going to be waiting around for
him indefinitely-

I think you are exactly right that WH is trying hard to
convince himself that D is the easiest way out. (I view
it as "bailing" and very cowardly). He has basically said
he isn't 100pct sure, and talking and meeting is supposed
to be "helping him decide." I kind of understand this, but
considering how long this has all been going on, and how
much he has been "back and forth" all along, I don't see
how he's ever going to think clearly enough to make a real
decision. He has seemed interested and sincere about getting
a counselor, but still has not done it, and yesterday said
he was going to, but that it had "nothing to do with me or
our situation". So, I don't know what his point is in doing
it, but it sounds like it will be too late.

I am going to take your idea, and the suggestions I read
about ("Last Resort Technique") and will not say anything
more about the R/M, "working on things",or future plans.
I think I will also go back to not calling WH at all, not
acting so interested or anxious, and not always being
available. I'm also not going to say anything else about
him getting a counselor, his issues, or any of my opinions
about things- and you're right- it will be hard to do !

I like the "mantra"- will try that too. I feel totally
confused about what is going on and keep trying to make
sense of the "who", "why", "what", as far as the whole
situation (and can't make sense of it, of course).
I definitely understand your feeling depressed, betrayed,
confused, scared and angry-
Hugs and "good karma" to you too!
Slammed

Yes, I could use some very good karma...

STBXH called me at work and on my cell b/c he has DS3 today (he had DS3 over the weekend and apparently DS3 is little under the weather and he is staying home with him), and when he offered strawberries, DS3 said "no, I want Mama's strawberries". So STBXH wanted to know how I serve them.

I wonder if he is doing these things on purpose. I wonder if he wants to crack whatever the wall I am trying to put around myself to protect me emotionally and legally. I wonder if he does this to give himself advantage in negotiation.

And this is just so sad that I have to speculate like this. I called him back but he did not answer the home phone so I did not leave a message.

Hey milk....

I thought of you today when I left my IC session. We were talking about moving on.....and how moving on does not mean that first you get H out of your mind completely and then you can move on. You can still love your H or have some hope and still be moving on .....because moving on does not mean that you don't care about H anymore, but that you are working on you or you have a positive outlook for the future or you don't spend every moment thinking about H....etc.....

I told IC that for me moving on includes having some more peace of mind than I curently have. I don't want to spend all my time thinking about H....I want to enjoy the things I have always enjoyed.....and if I can enjoy them now even a little without having him on my mind continuously then I am doing better...and moving on ....even if I still love him and have some small hope left.....

It made me think of you....I think you are moving on and living....

Hang in there....
Daisy

I ended up staying home with DS3 today, as he was not 100% recovered from whatever he might have had over the weekend at STBXH's.

He sent me an email today asking about DS3, but I knew he wanted to talk about our settlement. Then he called me this morning to ask about DS3. After I told him how he was doing and what I was doing for him, STBXH started to say "Milk, you know....", so I quickly cut him off by saying "well, I've got to go, I was changing DS3 and he is still half naked (which was true)". So he let me go.

Then this evening he called again - I told him how DS3 was doing again. Then he asked "when are we going to talk about our settlement?" I said "I do not want to talk about it now, I don't want to talk about it around DS3". He said "okay, then when can we talk about it? You know I do want to settle - I know, I am saying "non-negotiable", but I want to settle". (THEN WHY DO YOU DEMAND TO CHANGE CHILD SUPPORT THAT IS MANDATED BY THE STATE LAW?????????) So I told him "maybe this Thursday or Friday". Then he said okay.

I guess the fact he does want to settle is a good thing, but I have to be careful. He cannot be trusted.

And what is the rush here? For one thing, he really wants money. For another...., does he have someone he wants to be with, and he wants to be "clean" by officially getting divorced ASAP?

I talked to my mom twice today since I was feeling very vulnerable..., I could tell she was crying for me both times, but she pretended she wasn't and she forced herself to sound so cheerful. I felt great love from my mother, and I really appreciated it. She really does feel my pain, but unfortunately, she cannot live through this for me, and all she can do is to support me emotionally.

I hope DS3 will see me as such a strong mother he can count on when he grows up... I really have to work on my inner strength. My mom told me several times to accept the reality, which I know I have to. She told me there are ton of people who have never been in love, and at least I have experienced great love for and from STBXH, I should be greatful. That might be true, I guess.... if none of this happened, I would not be this hurt, but at the same time I would have never understood what love really meant and how painful it can be.

Understanding in my head and feeling the same way in the heart are two very different things, but I will have to keep trying to get stronger to accept the reality and move on.