Hey milk,,,,
wrote you a post above last night....we must have posted about the same time....

How is today going?

I am in a bit of a funk....feeling a bit panicky over here.......not good.

Watching the D process unfold for you, it seems really hard. I guess kids make it much harder and more complicated. I don't think my D will be as tough....we just got stuff to devide and I really don't care about it all......

You are strong milk....your son will see that.....and overtime he'll see what dad is like as well......if your STBXH does not change, your son will get to see him for who he is.........

All the best,
Daisy

Hey Milk~
Hope DS3 is doing much better now.

I think it's strange how your STBXH goes back and forth
between acting nice and "wanting to settle" and trying to be hard-ball and saying it's "non-negotiable" !
I think I'd be extremely cautious about talking to him about
it- seems like that's more a task to leave to the lawyers-?

Glad you have the good support of your Mom. I haven't shared
everything about my situation (the A) with my parents, but
am glad to have them here nearby for help and support, as
well as some really good friends to talk to.

I am finding some comfort and help in re-reading the book
the "Divorce Remedy" (Michele Weiner-Davis) this week. It's
very similar to MB and also "Tough Love" in many ways.

Have debated putting up much decorations or a tree with just
me and the dog at the house, but decided I'd feel worse if
I do nothing, so am going to drag in the boxes tonight and
do some decorating.... I always did most of it anyway, even
when WH was there, just more fun to enjoy it together.

Since getting together Sunday didn't go very well, I just
left things alone on Monday and wondered if I'd hear from
WH. He did call yesterday- just general conversation about
the dog, weather, etc..and nothing later, so he probably was
doing something with OW last night. I did contain the urge
to try to call him !
Today, I've thought about the fact that WH is apparently still "thinking about things" and "trying to sort things out" (also fence-sitting) and I feel bad that our last
time spent together ended rather negatively, so may have
left him with a bad taste about us trying to work on things.
(Sort of like trying to end your Plan A on a high note..)
Does that make sense ???

Thought it might be good to have a chance to get together
again and make it a positive experience- like being upbeat
and cheerful, not asking questions or commenting about OW
or the A, not talking about R/M, or "pushing" him at all,
so I called and left a voicemail for him, just saying " I
wondered if he might like to go out to dinner tonight and
that he could just give me a call at his convenience to
let me know, and that I was getting off early today so would
be at home working on the Christmas tree with the dog".
I tried to sound very upbeat and positive.

Haven't heard anything back so far, and won't call him back.
If he calls back and declines- I'll just try to be very
casual and fine with it, and if he wants to go I'll do my
best to be at "my best".
If he doesn't call back either way, I'll go on with my
tree decorating and just eat dinner at home ~

Hang in there Milk,
Slammed

Thanks for your replies Daisy and Slammed. DS3 was sick till Wednesday and then I got sick. Then on Friday I took him to daycare but soon as I got to work, his school called and said he is sick so I had to go get him again. What a week!

But he got better (although still has some stomach issues) and we had fun during the weekend.

STBXH is pushing for a "settlement", although is refusing to pay the state required amount, or wants to get a huge lump sum to "make up" for his duty (20% of his net income), and he claims he is being "rational".

I spoke to my MIL on Friday, and she invited me and DS3 for Christmas! I told her I was not expecting to be invited b/c that would be rather strange, and she said to me "Milk, as far as I am concerned, you ARE my daughter. We all love you, and unless YOU feel weird to be here and wants to be somewhere else, I would like you and DS3 to be here". That was nice to hear.

She also told me that STBX has left them a message wanting to let him move back in! This was new news to me. She told me "I told my husband if he ever let his son move back in, I would go back to Eurpoe. I don't want him here. He is our son, so he is welcome to come visit us, but I want my house to be a place where everyone can come visit without any hesitation, and that includes you".

I feel very fortunate to have in-laws who love me and accept me as a part of their family, even with our issues.

But I just don't understand. STBX is still blaming his parents for the way he has turned out to be (no confidence, etc.), and yet he wants to move in with them? If I were him, and if I truly believe my parents have screwed up on me, and I am angry with them, I don't think I would ask them to take me back in! He says a lot of things but it seems in the end, he just uses whatever and whoever that is convenient for him. There is no honor, it seems.

Sigh....

STBX and I verbally reached an agreement on most of items yesterday. I thank God for this smooth result. Even though what I wanted was different, I feel my and all of my friends' prayers for at least an amicable solution have been answered.

Yet the conversation with him made me sad again yesterday. This is truly over now. But is this what God thinks the best for me? STBX was still saying (not sure if that is what he truly thinks though) that I have wanted to reconcile mainly for DS3, to which I said not true. I wanted us to get back not only for DS3 but for ourselves.

Anyhow, it does not matter, he clearly told me that he does not want to live with me anymore, he does not want a life with me anymore.

{{{Milk}}}

I'm glad that you came to an amicable agreement, in any case.

How is your little boy doing?

Alph.

Thank you Alphin. I feel empty, but after talking to several friends this morning I am feeling a bit better.

DS3 is doing just fine, his daycare is having a Christmas program tonight and I am looking forward to seeing my little one sing. How are you holding up?

The whole thing is still giving me very empty feeling. Why do I have to do this with someone we vowed to stay together the rest of our lives? Why is he so sure that he does not want me in his life anymore?

These are thoughts I should not have anymore, since there is nothing I can do about them - but I don't know why the whole thing does not make HIM feel empty. My friends say that eventually in the future STBXH will feel empty, but I don't know if that ever happens, and even if that happens, I am pretty sure it will be too late for us to get back together at that point. Either way, our family has been torn apart b/c he decided it was not good for him.

My best friend is worried that the reason this is hitting me so hard is b/c now I feel worthless. I don't think that is the case. Sometime I do feel that way, but the primary reason I am very sad is simply b/c STBX does not love me anymore. I have tried and tried and tried, yet kept being rejected by someone I trusted the most. The great love I was so sure existed just disappeared, and I do not know what to believe anymore, and that makes me sad. If he kept saying he was the luckiest man on the earth to be with me while behind my back secretly planning on leaving me, I don't know if I ever be able to truly in love with someone again. But what hurts the most is simply I lost his love for me. That's it. He does not love me anymore. He could care less about me. That is what makes me so sad.

Hi Milk-
So glad to hear you were able to get some things settled in
an amicable way- at least that's a little less stress to deal with !
I have been feeling really confused and kinda down for the
past few days. Guess I'm trying to "over think" everything,
and now my head feels like it's swimming with some of the
same old stuff (like trying to figure out why things are
like this, what happened, what WH is thinking, what I could
have done differently, etc). and with trying to figure out
what to do now, and if anything I do seems to make any
difference anyway.

Felt a little encouraged, as it seems like WH is spending
less time with OW, but am discouraged that it's not seeming
to cause him to want to be with me or work on M. We've had
a couple of good talks in the past few weeks, but really not
anything new came about- he still seems to have convinced
himself that all his unhappiness and discontent is me or
the marriage (instead of anything being related to his
depression or other issues), and he doesn't acknowledge
or seem to act sorry about the A, so I guess it's all just
still about "HIM". I am afraid that he has convinced and
talked himself into thinking that being "on his own" (as
he calls it) will solve all his issues, that working on
the M will be too much trouble and effort, and apparently
our 10 years together, memories, history, plans, and good
times don't mean enough to him to make him consider other
wise. I feel like he might remember and think of some of
it, and might miss me, the dog, and our life sometimes,
but the rest of the time I feel like he could just "blow
us off" without even a thought.

I feel tired, drained, and more emotional lately
(probably due to the holidays) and am feeling more of
the clingy, desperate, anxiety feelings than I have for
awhile, and that's not helping in my dealings with him either. Guess I really need to get back to not calling,
not asking if he wants to do anything, not expecting
anything, because the rejection (again) is hurting.

Although my finances are very tight, I am thinking of calling MB for a session, just to see if they have any
ideas or if I should just give up. From ideas here, the
various books and philosphies I've read (MB and Divorce
Busting) and my IC, I am really confused !!

Enjoy the Christmas program, and hang in there !
Slammed

Slammed- I used Divorce Busters and Marriage Builders together to build a new relationship with my FWH. Even if it hadnt been successful, I found strength in the techniques for changing my life. Good luck with them.

Milkshake- Im behind due to the new baby (hmm, I guess now that he is five months I cant say new), don't you have a lawyer?

Good morning Milk- hope you are having a good day. I hope
that you enjoyed DS3's program last night !

I have IC tonight, so hope to get some thoughts and ideas
on my recent confusion. I feel a little better today just
because I'm not as tired and have been trying hard not to
think so much and analyze everything.

Realized too, that WH knows I want the M, and probably
feels he can get back into "my good graces" anytime he decides "he wants to". This makes me feel like there is way too much "power" on his side- so I'm trying to think of ways
to show I have made changes, am getting on with my life,
am less predictable, am less available, and some of the
things suggested in the "180" plan. I want to give him a
strong incentive to put an end to the A, and to put full
effort into working on the M.

Mojodiva- I'd like to hear more about how you utilized the
two "plans" and what your ideas might be for getting the
"power" more over to my side ! I will try to update my
thread and would appreciate your thoughts.
Slammed

Hi Slammed and mojodiva.

It's been crazy and I felt like everything was working against me the past few days.

(1) I missed DS3's program. I drove as fast as I could, and I almost got in an accident, but still the traffic was so heavy that I had no chance of making it. I cried. I felt that God does not exist or for some reason HE keeps giving me harship whereas STBXH is enjoying his life. It seems so unfair.

(2) Then I got an accident on Wednesday morning. I was okay, and my car was okay too. But again, I was asking "why is this happening to me? Why am I being punished?"

(3) I had an important meeting on Wednesday. My secretary forgot to submit some paperwork, so my guests (high profile people) were stuck at the security desk, which embarrased them and made me look very bad. Then lunch I ordered was not delivered. Again, it made me look so bad. Why nothing goes well in my life?

I lost my husband of 12 years and partner of 15 years. My son often says he rather stays with his Papa. I feel like I am losing my son as well. Then I keep screwing up at work, and I feel like I might be losing my job as well. Could anything be possibly worse than this??? I am losing a grip on my life. My life is a mess.

On the other hand, STBXH decided he wants OUT. He does not want to be responsible. He enjoys his life. His family is all here, and eventually they will take him back regardless, since they are his family. My family is 10,000 miles away. And he can find another younger woman and can still have kids. He can see DS3 on a regular basis if he wants to. He can focus on his work, since he does not go through any emotional turmoil and he does not have to always rush home to take care of DS3.

I never hated my life, but now I do. I know I have to be grateful for what I still have, but it is so darn difficult. People have told me that God has a greater plan for me, etc., but I don't see it. My life is deteriorating very fast. Is this what it is???

I am just so hurt and tired.

{{{{{{{{{Milk}}}}}}}}}

What an awful few days you are having. I'm so sorry.

Please don't hate your life. You have so much to look forward to, even though it doesn't seem like it now.

Firstly, thank goodness you weren't hurt in that accident! And your car is OK too. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I doubt very much that your job is in jeopardy, either - some unfortunate things happen, but these kinds of things happen all the time - they aren't really important. I'm sure that your own performance speaks volumes about you - and that those who count won't hold other's mistakes against you!

You have a darling son WHO LOVES YOU DEARLY. Little children often say things like they'd rather stay with the other parent etc etc. I know it is hard, but try to look at the long term. You are the one who stayed for DS, you are the one who is there for him. One day, he will understand this, but he's only little now. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I've read many times on these boards that God never gives us more than we can handle. I think that is true. There is something better coming for you, Milk; it may be that your marriage is restored, or it may be something else. Things sure are [email]cr@ppy[/email] for you now, I can't deny it. But IT WILL get better.

Love your son. Love yourself.

{{{{{{{{Milk}}}}}}}}

Another hug for ya!

Alph.

Thank you Alph. Do you ever wonder where you are going?

Slammed, sorry I didn't get back to you earlier this week - I was travelling and as I mentioned, I got in an accident and haven't been able to check in till today - how are you holding up?

I was organizing DS3's old pix last night - there are a lot of videoclips STBXH took...., and we were just so happy to have our first baby.... I can't believe he rewrote our history and cannot remember anything good about our relationship.

Oh well. I need to move on. I need to move on. I need to move on...

My girl friend met this pastor and he told her "you have gone through a lot of suffering (she has for the past 5 years), and now you are not going to suffer anymore". I was very happy for her when she told me this.

I would like my suffering to be over as well, but a part of me is still wanting STBXH back, even if that may mean more suffering. Guys move on more easily than women, I just envy such trait...

Yes, all the time. But whereas before (from D'day up until a couple of months ago, say) the road ahead was bleak and full of woe, now I look forward and I can see promise and yes, even happiness for myself.

I don't know what is going to happen. I'm pretty sure that my marriage is over, yes. That doesn't bother me like it used to. If it's over, that's OK. I'm OK. I'm 36, I've got two beautiful girls who love me, and I have lots of things I'd like to do. I wish I was healthier, but you can't have everything! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


I feel the same way. STBX said our entire marriage was [email]cr@p[/email], but no-one else believed it except OW. I guess he must have told her that to get her to sleep with him. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> But I don't think they'll believe this forever, and I don't think your WH will either. Our WH's are very, very deep in the fog, and (in my case, anyway) by the time they emerge from it, it may well be too late.

Take care.

Alph.

Thanks Alph.

MIL also invited me and DS3 for Christmas - the difference btw your case is that STBXH will be there too. Bummer. DS3 will be excited to see his papa, I am sure, and if we have to leave w/o STBXH, DS3 will cry, I just know. That would give STBXH great satisfaction and tear my heart apart.

When he moved out almost 8 months ago, he said he was happy. Today he complains about his apartment. But really, is this about a place he lives? He said the house we lived together does not mean anything to him and he felt so empty in the house. So he moved out, and now he is all by himself, and is still complaining about the place he is in. Yes he still says he needs to "get away" from me and there is no way he wants to get back with me. If I were THAT bad, wouldn't you think he should be very happy regardless of the place he lives in?

There will be no answers for this, but why can he be so mean?? He once told me "you mean nothing to me, Milk, you have BECOME nothing in my life". How can he be so mad??? He says he is not blaming me for everything, but he is. And he didn't even give us a chance to improve our relationship.

Hi Milk,
Sorry for the slow reply. I am so sorry that you had a
tough time with the accident and bad work day last week.
Hope your weekend was good and you are feeling better today.

Talked to WH a couple of times last week and he came by
yesterday, as usual, to get his mail, drop off receipts,
see the dog, etc. We talked a little, but nothing new.
I have clearly told WH how I feel about him/us, about the
fact that I believe we could make changes and have a real
fresh start together in a new and improved marriage, and
what it would take to get there, so have decided to quit
talking about it, at least for now, because he gets really
stressed out when talking and it sometimes turns counter-
productive and makes me feel worse than just leaving things
alone. Plus, he knows how I feel, so there's nothing else to
really say.

He still says he's "sorting things out", but I just don't
really see how he can think clearly about anything at all
when he's still involved with OW, and hasn't made a move
towards getting a counselor to help him think things through.
He seems so convinced that his unhappiness and discontment
are because of me, or the marriage, and doesn't seem willing
to realize or entertain the possibility that they are from
within HIM (even though he's had them way before I even
knew him !) You'd think that years of changing jobs, houses,
cars, buying lots of "stuff",and now trading me for OW,
would give him a clue that it's an issue that is going to
stay with him ! Just like your STBXH, I believe he will
eventually find that the problems are going to go with him
wherever he goes, and whoever he is with. Sounds like your
STBXH also has the same issues with being quickly and easily
discontent with things- such as his apartment !

Today, I'm feeling okay. I know this week will be hard with
Christmas coming up. I am doing a "small scale" holiday- so
got a new, small tree, and put up just a few decorations.
I'll exchange gifts with my parents and sister's family,
and will eat and spend the day with my parents and/or friends. I am feeling very sentimental and sure miss the
traditions that WH and I had together these past 10 years,
so hope that WH is remembering and missing them too.
Thinking of WH buying gifts for OW and spending the day with
her makes me feel sick, so I'm trying not to think of it.

Since your STBXH is going to be at your MIL's for Christmas,
would you prefer to do something on your own, with just you
and DS3 or friends so you don't have to see him ? Seems like
a very stressful situation.
My in laws live out of state, so won't see them, but just
found out yesterday that MIL has sent a box of gifts,
presumable for WH, me and the dog. Feel bad because I didn't
send them anything and don't know if gifts WH sent are just
"from him", or from both of us. Guess I could still send
something, or at least a card. Kind of an awkward situation !

Thanks for thinking of me, and keep in touch.
Slammed

Hi Slammed,

I am glad you are feeling better today. Yes you need to raise your holiday sprits for yourself... I miss our family tradition too, but am trying to block my memory b/c STBXH is certainly not the same person I used to know.

OF COURSE, STBXH emailed me back today saying that he is not happy with the settlement after all. He even THANKED me last week b/c I gave him more than he expected. Then he talked to his lawyer and he came back and said "I don't think it is fair" and now wants more. He is just getting so greedy! Can't believe he has become such a jerk!