Stupid Milk was still secretly hoping that STBXH would remember our previous V-days and feel nostalgic... Of course that never happened!

STBXH was at his parents' house on V-day - does that indicate that he does not have any "serious" GF? It's possible that even if he does have someone, she was not available that night. Still, I am glad he was not having a party with someone else. At the same time, he is still not very much determined to be on his own, away from me. Am I such a bad person? I don't think so, but why doesn't he come home even though he is not happy alone? It really hurts me b/c that shows how much he hates me.

I know this is a million dollar question but..., is there any way for BSs to evaluate the probability of WSs returning home? It sounds like MOST of BSs in the end feel bad about their decisions, soon or later, but in some cases they realize that they were in a fantasy world soon enough so that they could still reconcile, but in many cases they come to an realization 5 years later or something, way too late for that...

STBXH does not look happy, yet he continues to move forward for D. Why is this? WHy is he so convinced?

Milk,

You will not be able to answer this. Your H was not happy in the Marriage and if he is not doing any growing, learning and reflecting, it is not surprising that he is not happy now.

Second, your H sounded to me like a person that is looking for happiness in others. That is not something one can find, so again not surprising that he is not happy.

I was curious to know how much of your WH do you see? You may benefit from limiting your contact. It has been helpful to me. It is very natural to analyze his actions. Removing yourself from a lot of contact will not give you the opportunity to do that.

I know when I was in contact with WH, what he did would get to me. I finally decided to cut contact primarly becuase I did not want to hear it anymore. It was time for me to live my life, care about me, see what I need to do and where I need to make changes. His presence was a huge distraction for me in a way, because I focused on him, why did he call, why did he say "hey there, its me", why did he ask me to a movie, he is not sleeping (I worry about him), he is working strage hours, etc etc....what does this mean and what does that mean.....It just kept going on and on and I wanted to read something in his action that was not there. It is good to know as little as possible if you want to move on with your life.


Just a thought........keep it about you Milk....and DS.

Daisy

Thanks Daisy, I thought about that - it is a big dillenma. If I truly give up on the possibility of reconciliation, of course it is much easier for me to go to the "NC" or limited contact with STBXH. Yet I keep hearing stories where even after the split the twos remained "friends" and they eventually got back together - those make me wonder..., also for the sake of DS3, I am not sure what is the best thing to do.

It does irritate me, though, to know that here I am, after so many months and in the middle of D process I am still wondering about these things while STBXH is completely gone and enjoy being selfish, remains angry at me all the time no matter what I do/say, and continues to feel "victim" of the whole thing.

STBXH's emails and voice messages are always upset. He never answers his phone yet if I miss his calls a couple of times in a row, he gets nasty saying "you are doing this on purpose so that I cannot speak to my son". He does not consider MY schedule, but it's all about him! Why do I still think about him??? I am wasting my time!

I took DS3 to his first skiing yesterday, and it was fun! I started skiing when I was 2 or so myself, and have wanted to teach him how to ski for a long time. I wanted to take him out to a skiing trip last year when he was 2, but that was shortly after STBXH dropped the bomb, so I was not in the mental stage to have any sort of fun. Anyway, now he can ski on his own. Although I haven't really taught him how to stop yet, so that I have to do the next time.

I was so proud of DS3 and wish STBXH and I could share the moment together. He was supposed to come pick up DS3 for dinner that night, and it did not look like DS3 will have enough energy left for the night, so I phoned him from the ski resort yesterday. Of course he did not answer so I left him a message about rescheduling his night with DS3 and also how DS3 was learning how to ski and was being very brave. I said "he is so good and you should be proud of him".

He called me back shortly after (although I was outside skiing and did not hear the phone) and left me a message. He said of course he is proud of DS3 and misses him so much. He said also something related to trying to become consistent with my way of disciplining DS3. Maybe he is becoming a bit more responsible? Don't know, as even in the past he has always said many nice things to hear but never executed on any of those promises, so I am taking his words with a grain of salt.

I have been wondering about this for a while: I have seen people who are in recovery yet keep posting here, which is great, because we learn so much from them and also get a lot of hope, encouragement, and tips. So this is not to show any desrespect at all. I was just simply wondering if those who have successfully reconciled are still struggling..., because the hurt was so great... I am in a divorce recovery group at a local church and we get together to do a bible study. There more than a half of women are in thier recovery, yet they are still hurting.

I have a friend who has been supportive througout my experience. She had to go through a rough time as well, but successfully got her H back. She has given me a lot of advice and encouragement. She helped me a lot because of her own experience. And of course I want the story to end right there...., like people who are in recovery and continue to post here, I want to believe she lives "happily ever after". But unfortunately, the story does not end there. And I was wondering if you all who continue to post to help fellow MBers are still going through a lot of hardships in their M.

It seems many WS's do end up having a sense of guilt later on in their lives, but at the same time even if they turn around soon enough to reconcile, BS's continue to suffer... Am I getting this right?

Hi Milk,
Glad you and DS3 enjoyed the ski trip- sounds fun !
You have been sounding really strong lately, like you have
been able to get yourself into a more "peaceful place", which is so great. I guess we all learn to find that place
more often and eventually can stay "in it". !

I just returned from a weekend trip with WH. We had a good
time (went to Las Vegas) although WH's father is ill and
at some points over the weekend we thought we might have to
leave early so WH could go back home, but fortunately he
started to improve.
Also, WH continues to talk to OW which is very frustrating
for me. He feels that it is "ended" because they are no
longer seeing each other, and doesn't seem to "get it" that
ALL contact to end before we can make any recovery and even
start to move forward ! He says he is trying to end the
phone calls, but seems to be having great difficulty with
it- so don't know if it's his OCD (my IC mentioned that him
having that might make it harder for him to end the contact)
if it's an excuse and he's really just trying to "cake eat",
or if he's simply a coward (or maybe a mixture of things !)
He says he feels very guilty and bad for OW because she just
recently moved here and doesn't know anyone, but I've tried
to remind him that she chose to move here (was not due to
him) and that by always being available to help/talk/advise
he is actually "enabling" her so she has no reason to try
to make friends, find activities, get some hobbies, etc.

I have to laugh a bit thinking of how OW tried to tell me
how she was a very strong, independent person, "didn't need
a man", didn't need "anyone", didn't want any "drama" in her
life, etc. when in reality, she's proved herself to be very
needy, clingy, desperate, and anything but strong or at all
independent ! Plus, all the drama in the situation, has all
been HER ! (she's the one who called and continues to call
our house, sent me all my WH's letters and card to her, and
a "lovely" packet of photos)

IC has encouraged me to stay involved, but "stepped back"
and observing of the situation with WH and OW. She feels
that the antics of OW may be the thing that will finally
make WH see her for what she is, and enable him to totally
end all contact. I am trying to stick with that plan and
thought, but it is frustrating and takes an awful lot of
patience since this has drug on long enough....
I'm trying to think of it though, as my having the "power"
to decide what I want to do, that I am not obligated to
stay with WH, and that he needs me more than I need him at
this point.
Hope your week is good ~
Slammed

Hi Slammed, I just posted on your thread. I know this is frustrating, but you have deposited so many points in his love bank, so continue on doing what you have been doing and sit back a little. I am glad you two had a good time in Las Vegas.

I had a very strange dream about STBXH last night. I haven't had one in a while. In the dream, he turned out to be gay, and he confessed to my friend that he was with another woman after he moved out, but then he "found" he was very comfortable with his guy friends.... It was very strange. But my life has taken turns that I would have never imagined, so who knows, these strange dreams might not be too far from reality.

DS3 had a strep throat about a month ago, and I got one as well about 2 weeks ago. Now I started to have severe pain in my throat again... hope I didn't get the strep again!

I do wonder how STBXH is doing. We talk quite often b/c he calls for DS3, but we do not really say much to each other. It will be much easier for me to have no contact, but b/c of our child, and b/c he is still small, I need to answer the phone and give it to DS3, or I have to call STBXH for him. I really do feel like my whole marriage to him has been a big bad dream. I cannot believe he was so much in love with me before. Now I cannot even remember him being that way.

The reason I asked my questions about former BSs who successfully gotten their WSs back is that I feel even if STBXH feels bad in the future, (1) it will take a very long time before that ever happens, and (2) even if that happens, I feel that STBXH will always have some doubt or secret life behind me, continuing to break my heart. I wish in most cases once WSs come back they are all out of the fog completely and recognize mistakes they have made. But I feel that is not the case. In many cases I have seen that even after they come back it will take years to rebuild trust and love and everything.

I should not be worried about it, since at this point I really do not see any reasons why STBXH would turn around. He is gone for almost 10 months. He is not happy. He misses DS3 like crazy. I do not think he has a lot of friends. He hangs out a lot with those he met through SA group counselling. They all have issues, so it must make STBX feel comfortable, but I doubt how much "true" male bonding and friendship are being built among them. Yet he continues on D process, and is determined to get D done. He is obssessed with D now. There is no stopping.

I am not sure what kind of "happiness" he is looking for.

Good morning Milk-
I hope you are staying well and won't get sick again.
I can relate- had a sinus infection several weeks ago and
did 10 days of antibiotics, then it came back again and I'm
on another round of medicine. Hopefully it will be totally
gone this time !

I had a terrible night and am feeling very down, heartsick,
and exhausted today. I met WH for dinner last night and
things went very badly. Discovered that he has lying about
the situation with OW, is trying to "win her back" with a
bunch more lies, and even though it wasn't a total surprise
(knowing he's been talking to her) it really hurts after I
have been trying so hard to help with his medical and legal
situations, really trying to do a great "Plan A", and he's
been reassuring me that he loves me, is "committed to work
on our M", and all the other things that were apparently
lies.
I spoke with a friend then just went on to bed, but woke up
every few hours. WH slept downstairs in our guest room.
Saw him this morning as we both got ready for work, but he
was still very unwilling to talk- just says "leave me alone"
and acts angry and impatient. I just feel at a total loss
to understand what happened to bring about such a change
in just one day, WHY he would still want to go back to OW
after all that's happened with her, and how he can just
treat me like this. I guess I just need to stop caring, if
only I knew how...
Slammed

Just came back from the doctor's office. I was on the penicilin before but it was only 2 weeks ago so he could not prescribe me it again - he said it's too close to the previous prescription. So I would be on the other "strong" antibiotics.

Since STBXH dropped the bomb, I have been weak and gotten sick very often. And I know why. My immune system is so low b/c of all of the heartache and stress I had to deal with. I wonder if STBX has ever gotten seriously sick since he left....!!

I am so sorry to hear what happened to you last night Slammed. I don't know what to say. I just can't believe how unappreciative and STUPID your WH is. I am sorry to say this, but he sounds like a educated successful businessman, and why can't he see things like NORMAL people do?? OW is crazy, and he has a wife frankly he does not deserve! What is the attraction to OW? Is she so unrealistic (sounds like a crazy drama queen, so I can easily imagine how she might lack sense of responsibility and realism) that he feels he is living in his "dream" world when he is with her? I don't understand.

Even though my STBXH may not have (but who knows, he might have someone he is in love with, even if it's a one-way deal) OW like your WH, in a way it's similar in a sense that he is clearly not happy in his current situation and he is forcing himself to believe that he can live in his fantasy land. It just does not make any sense.

I have spoken to a lady whose husband left his family 2 years ago. She sounds like a very fun, positive, and strong woman. He left because of OW, but it turned out that OW is a drug addict. She was even put in a jail! On the other hand, this lady and her xH had a nice life together - nice job, beautiful house in the good neighborhood, beautiful two daughters...., yet xH chose to stay with his drug addict GF. I mean, you don't even need 100IQ to figure this out! Yet people do make stupid and irrational choices...

Is it possible that your WH is "bored" b/c his life with you is so stable and normal? If he is a risk seeker, he may be attracted to a crazy drama queen like OW. Although there is no way that their R would last...

I don't understand my STBXH either. What does he want? A long time ago I asked him if he wanted to marry to a girl who is quiet and submissive... he said "no, because I know myself. I am a weak and lazy person, so if I were with someone like that, I would just not do anything. I need a strong woman who has a head on the shoulder like you." I think he meant that, at that time. But probably he feels now that he "had enough" of that life and wants to just have fun. He does not want to have a wife who would stop him doing "fun" and "irresponsible" things.

Maybe he is right. He said "we were mismatch". I never believed in that, b/c we were together for 15 years after all, and had a lot of great memories. Also I always felt that we had a lot in common as well (it turned out we had a lot of differences too though). But our approach towards life is different. I like having fun, but I also like to take our life seriously. He does not like any hard work. Maybe he needs someone who is a party girl and does not really care what would happen tomorrow...

My friend who gave me a dozen of red roses on Valentine day is showing more and more of his feelings for me. Which I am flattered, and in a way, I wish I could feel the same way towards him so that I might be able to handle my situation with STBX better. I really like him, but I always catch myself that I am secretly comparing him to STBXH. I mean, he is wonderful. He is very responsible. He does not have any addictions whatsoever. He is patient. He works hard. He is very smart and ambitious. He is a wonderful father. Yet...there is a big BUT. He is not STBX, and we do not have those sweet and often goofy memories we can share. I am almost mad at myself that I am still somehow attracted to STBX - well, that is not true. I am not attracted to STBX the way he is now. He does not look good at all. He looks very depressed, much older, unhealthy..., basically he looks DEAD. Other people have pointed that out as well. So I am not attracted to him now, but am still attracted to his shadow...the image I still have inside me.

Also the fact his family became my family in this country is playing a difficult factor here. I love getting together with his family, and they treated me as if their own daughter/sister.

But, I must accept that life is always changing. I have to believe that in the future I may even thank STBX for divorcing me. Because during 2004, I was unhappy in our M. I was constantly complaining about it to my best friend. I felt the distance between STBX and me. I got always disappointed by STBX b/c he could not stop using drugs. I was not happy that STBX was always unmotivated and selfish. But I just never had a gut to D. Maybe this is what I needed? I have to believe that.

Thanks for the support, Milk. I felt awfully drained
and tired yesterday, but made it through work, met a
friend to talk and walk through the mall later, and
had both my IC and a session with Jennifer last night !

Both agreed that OW seems very unstable, dependent, and
clingy, and that both she and my WH seem to be addicted
to each other in a very unhealthy way. Both agreed that
there is little liklihood of any successful relationship
between them because WH is going to get very tired of
the clingy, demanding, controlling ways of OW, and she
is going to get tired of his attention to me, continued
lies, and all the issues with his medical and legal stuff
(which I don't think she knows much about).

I've been racking my brains trying to figure out what the
possible attraction could be between them, and have to
agree with your thoughts- that maybe the "fantasy" life is
more "exciting" than real life ! In some ways, I think
WH was attracted to me because I was independent, strong,
able to do things for myself, organized, and took care of
most things in our life, and I've never thought anything
was wrong with those things- but it almost seems like WH
has come to resent those same traits.
Makes me wonder if it's related to his relationship with
his Mom (which he's been discussing some in therapy) because
she also is a hard working person who's been the "force"
behind taking care of everything and everyone, and he seems
to have resentment for her too. My friend suggested that
maybe he view me as sort of the same "mother figure" type
and therefore didn't feel much of a sexual attraction,
thus leading him to some of his odd behaviors and the OW,
and it is an interesting thought, although I certainly don't
want to be thought of as his mother, and I certainly would
like to have a sex life again !

Guess if he does think of me as too stable and "dull", I
need to find a way to "shake things up", although I'm not
exactly sure how/what to do.

My IC felt that WH is still very confused, "foggy", and
"on the fence" regarding what he wants to do with either
me or the OW, and that due to his personality and mental/emotional issues will have a hard time breaking it off and ending it with OW. (He is very "conflict-avoiding" and has a hard time making anyone mad, upset, etc.) She suggested remaining loving, caring and supportive, but being more "backed off", and again working more on myself, keeping busy, not putting much pressure on WH for awhile.
Her thought is that OW will put much pressure on WH, will
continue to constantly badger him, question him, and make
demands, and that this will hopefully bring about an end
to the attraction.

It was nice talking to Jennifer at Marriage Builders too,
as she was very understanding of the situation and said she
had heard of many similiar scenarios. She felt like part of
our problems stemmed from WH's previous A (2001) and that
we did not do a good job of putting in the "precautions"
and getting to the root of the problems, so nothing kept it
from ocurring again.
She too, felt it was very unlikely that the relationship
with OW was going to go anywhere because it sounds like OW
has some emotional problems herself, is clingy, needy,
desperate, manipulative and controlling. She thought she
sounds like someone who is just in it for "fun", and for
the things WH would buy for her or do for her. She thought
she was not likely to want to stick around when things are
not "fun", such as when WH is having medication issues
and is either grouchy or sleeping all the time, is in long
term therapy, is having to do community service/alcohol
classes, and when he loses his license and needs a ride all
the time !
She suggested continuing a really good Plan A for awhile,
and then if needed going to a firmer Plan B. As the house
that WH has been renovating is almost done, I think he may
decide to move into it, and if so, then that will put us
into a Plan B. Then, if WH wants to come back, she will
give suggestions and help with a Plan that will put firm
boundaries and precautions in place.

I think you are right about both our H's in that they aren't
happy and think they want "something" else, but have no idea
what that something is. They seem to jump from one thing to
another, not finding any satisfaction in anything, so just
keep on with a futile search. I was hoping that WH getting
on good meds and continuing on with the psychiatrist and
counselor would help him get off this pattern, and maybe
it eventually will, but who knows if it will be soon enough
to help or save our situation ?

I also wanted to strongly agree with you about stress really
knocking down our immune systems and the inreased incident
of illness since all this stuff has been going on. I have
not been a person who is often sick, but have definitely
noticed an increase in headaches, stomachaches, feeling tired, not eating as well, and not sleeping as well.
I sometimes think that I don't look very good and that just
adds to my feeling down, so would really like to work harder
on my "self care". I am going to really make an effort to
do better with my diet, exercise, taking vitamins, eatting
better, getting more sleep, etc. so I can feel better
whether I'm back with WH or by myself-

I agree that our WH's also seem to really show signs of
the stress, unhappines, deceit, etc. My Wh had tanned, was
going to the gym often, went running, and looked pretty good
back when he was trying to hook up with OW, and now he always looks tired, looks "weird" in his eyes (a symptom of mental illness according to his DR) and has gained quite a bit of weight.
I hope you are feeling better. Hope you will continue to
find strength and peace- you've been doing great !
Slammed

Thanks Slammed. I am going to stop trying to constantly "figure" STBXH out. Because I can't, and I know you do this yourself, but think about it - yes we all have problems, but clearly your WH and my STBX have a lot more and bigger issues. They do not know what they want, why they are not happy. I cannot keep letting my life evolve around STBX's. I want to live a healthier and more stable life. I tried everything I could think of, but b/c STBXH does not even know what the heck he wants other than that he is feeling unhappy and wanting to get out of such situation, of course it didn't help!

I see the difference btw broken M because of simple A and broken relationship due to more complicated issues such as addictions and other mental problems. Unfortunately, STBXH has the latter. He needs professional help, and even then, who knows if he will get better.

My friend said that she has read an article that said severe mental problems will not be solved/cured. I have a friend who is academically highly accomplished and looks very pretty as well. She came from a family who has money. It looks like she has everything, right? But she lacks common sense. There is something about her. She is always blaming others for her failure to do something or bad luck. Even though she is very intelligent, she has been fired many times, b/c she just cannot function normally. And it is always someone else's fault. She blames her parents a lot too. So my friend who read the article thought of our mutual friend and also my STBXH. She feels that unfortunately, those people just will never learn how to be responsible and stop viewing themselves as victims.

It was a shocking statement, but now I start to agree with her. STBX could be a sweet and gentle person, but has way too many issues. That will probably never go away. So everytime he faces some difficulty in life, those traits would come back. He will always have addictions and always have to fight against them. But knowing him, if he has a lot of stress, I know he will again escape into his addictions. On the other hand, if his life is rather smooth, he may feel "okay, I have been very good and just smoking pot and watching porn here and there is not a big deal", and either way, I am pretty sure he will start indulging him in his addictions again. And I definitely do not want to live like that rest of my life.

It was my mistake. I should have known better. Doctors may be able to cure physically broken body part, but if someone is severly broken mentally, I do not know if anyone can fix that unless the person with the issues himself truly desire to get help and get healthier. STBXH with no doubt wants to get healthier. But again, I do not have the faith that it will last long either. STBXH is a quitter. He never finish what he started.

It really sucks that I have to get D, and DS3 has to live rest of his life being affected by this D, but I am grateful that this happens now rather than later.

Okay, this is not to overanalyze STBX's actions or anything, b/c that would be a waste of my mental energy. I just wanted to vent, I guess...

Yesterday I called him to ask if he could watch our dog next weekend, since I am taking DS3 to a ski trip. I initially asked one of his sisters, but it turned out that she would be taking care of another family dog so it would be too much for her to handle. So I briefly mentioned that I had tried SIL with no luck in my message. He called back and said "of course I will take care of the dog. And you should just ask me before asking my sister, because I want a company, I miss my dog, and he misses me too".

I think he is really lonely. Right after he moved out, he was always going out on weekends. He said he was happy and free. But I do not think such "fake" happiness sustain for long... He looks unhappy and tired.

Also financially, I do not know why, b/c he makes decent money and does not really pay much for rent and to me (remember, I am paying all of our mortgage which includes his car payments, DS3's daycare, his extra curriculum activities, his medical expenses, his collge fund contribution, etc. - STBXH only gives me 20% of his net income), yet it sounds like he is in a bad shape. He asked me to deposit his check (the 20% CS check) right away, b/c apparently the previous one bounced! I have 3-4 times more expenses, while I certainly do not make 3-4 times as he does. What is he doing?? It seems he has lost control over his life completely. He does not have many friends, his family does not feel the same way about him anymore, he misses his son, and he is just unhappy.

Is this what he wanted??? What about the statement he made that "he would not want to live EVER like before..."??? He had a family he lived with, nice home, dog, vacations, money in the savings account, mutual friends... Now all are gone for him. Why? Is this the freedom he wanted so that he could pursue other women??? Was I THAT bad? I don't think so! But of course in his mind I was.... I MADE him unhappy and feel empty.... I MADE his addictions worse... Okay...

Good morning, Milk-
You know I am very much with you and understand totally
about trying to analyze the actions and words of the WH-
and it does just seem impossible to think at their same
level or understand what they do.

I am still just really at a loss to understand the way
things have gone with my WH after it appearing that we
were working on things and WH was really trying to end
it with OW, to be back to him lying, and back with her.
I just don't "get" it at all !

I hoped that talking about the situation at his counseling
session last night would help (see details on my thread)
but left feeling like it almost made things worse in a way.

I expected Ic would be "neutral" and she pretty much was,
but I felt like she was going with an attitude like I should
just accept things if WH didn't want to be together, regardless of whether it was an addiction, him not thinking clearly, him having a character flaw, or whatever the reason might be, rather than agreeing that it might be an
addiction and not "real", might be some very flawed thinking,etc.
I feel like this might make him feel almost "justified" in what he thinks or feels, although his IC did suggest that WH did not "rush into anything, or do anything drastic and that he run some of his thoughts and feelings by his psychiatrist to see what he thought.

I didn't initially think about it being negative, but later
last night WH said to me "Well, that IC sure did put you in
your place", and ever since then I've been thinking about it
and trying to figure out what he thinks or means by that.
I guess its another case of his thinking and my thinking
being miles apart and nothing I can understand ??!!

I gave up on trying to talk to WH last night because he was
just so hostile and "shut down", and that never gets us
anywhere. I talked to a friend for a long time, then finally
got to sleep but am just physically and mentally exhausted
today. This morning, I just got ready for work and said
almost nothing to WH. When I got ready to leave for work
he said he was running late, but would call me later-

Mid-morning, he called me here at work. Said he felt he had
to go on this ski trip weekend before he could move forward,
get anywhere with me, or make any decisions. I said "you
do realize that I know you are going with OW?", and he said
"yes". I said "what is the purpose and how would you going
on a trip with her possiblly help you making a decision or
do anything towards working things out with me ?"
He said he felt like they had never "finalized" things and
that he felt he needed to have the weekend to do that.
I said I thought all it would do would be to "fan the flames, stir things up, and get them right back into a full
blown A again, not be a way to end things cleanly."
Told him the only way I was willing to work on things, and
the only way it could possibly work with he and I would be
for him to be honest, tell her he was working on his M,
make it clear that he wanted no contact and DO it, and
he said he knows this.
I asked if he thought it was even possible for him to do
this because he seems almost incapable of being honest when
it's going to not be what someone wants to hear. I think
he's grown up always having to say the right thing, keep
everyone happy, and now it's a habit to say whatever he
thinks people want to hear !

I was surprised by the conversation, since he was so "closed
down", unbending and adamant last night about "not wanting
to be married" and then today seemed to have changed his
"tune" to some degree. Don't know if this him just not
wanting to completely give up his connection to me, "Just
in case", (so basically trying to continue to cake-eat),
if he really thinks he's going to have some big "ephiphany"
about what to do while skiing with OW, or if he really
believes he is trying to get some finalization.
I think his frequent change of mind and tune definitely must really indicate how totally confused he is and
that he is obviously still not in control of his mental
and emotional problems, at the very least !

Things like that do add some credence to the article you
talked about and the possiblity maybe some people are
too far "gone", or just have too many issues/problems to
be "fixed".

Right now, I'm just going to focus on getting through one
day at a time. I'm still sick, am really tired, and just
feel too tired to think very clearly about things. I dread
the weekend, knowing WH is off skiing, just one week after
our fun trip. Guess I can just try to use it to rest, get
some things caught up at home, and be peaceful where I can
think or "not" think !

About your STBXH- does seem that he is very "back and forth"
about how much contact, and how much responsibilty he wants.
He does sound like he is not doing well, is lonely, is in
bad shape, but isn't doing anything about it.
Much as with my WH, he had a loving, wonderful wife, a son,
a nice home, dog, and all the nice things of life, and is
willing to give it up on some "hunt" for the "unknown" thing
that is going to magically make him happy and fix all his
problems. You and I know that that isn't going to happen !
Hang in there too-
Slammed

STBXH showed up 30 minutes early yesterday morning without notifying me, so I was still getting DS3 ready for the day. When I said "you are early", he said "well because DS3 has the dentist appointment (I made an appointment for DS3, and asked STBX if he wants me to take DS3 there and once he is done STBX can pick him up, and he said he would take DS3 there himself)". But the appointment was 10:30am at a place 15-20 minutes away from my house, and yet he showed up an hour early! It looked like he just could not wait to see DS3.

Also when our dog went to the door to greet STBX, I overheard him saying "yeah, you are coming to my place next weekend". It really sounds like STBX misses having company.

Then he asked me "so are you going on a ski trip with ABC and XYZ (a couple I hang out a lot with)?" I said yes, and he said "good, it's good that DS3 gets to go on a ski trip". Then he asked me bluntly "so how are things?", to which I just said "good", and he just said "good".

He looked at me and said "those are nice pants". I said "oh, they are from xxx (my girlfriend)". He said "oh", and then kind of stared at my pants again and said "it's surprising they fit her (she used to be very thin but she is big now)", so I said "she wore them many years ago".

While I was finishing up to get DS3 ready, maybe because STBX heard me saying some things in Japanese (I am trying to speak to DS3 mainly in Japanese, but when STBX and I were together, often it was difficult and I ended up using English), he asked DS3 in Japanese (with heavy accent) if he understands Japanese. DS3 looked puzzled. So STBX asked him if he knows how to say father in Japanese. DS3 replied, in Japanese, "wait a second", which he might have meant literally us to wait for his answer, but STBX and I both intrepreted it as "wait a second means daddy in Japanese", and we both bursted out laughing at the same time. DS3 looked very happy seeing us laughing together in the same room. I guess now I understand why we must remain amicable for the sake of our son... DS3 wants us to be friends.

STBX called me on my cell and left me a message afterwards regarding DS3's first dentist experience. He said "DS3 did really well today, I am so proud of him. He's got many stickers. They found 4 cavaties though.., but they are all in between teeth, so it was not because of our brushing." I called him back and he basically said the same thing. One thing I was a bit annoyed by was his statement of "we are doing a good job brushing his teeth". WE??? I have been brushing his teeth everyday!!!??? Of course I could not just let that go, so said "well, that's good to know, because 'I' have been checking DS3's teeth everynight and 'I' did not find any cavaties...". Sure, maybe it was unneccesary, but I was not being nasty and just could not take his statement as is - after all, he left us, he left all of his responsibilites to ME, and he wants to get a credit for taking care of DS3???

Yesterday was one of STBX's sisters birthday. She is the one who speaks to him the most, and also has a history of addictions and depression. STBX said he was going to her birthday party in the evening with DS3. I called her up to wish her a happy birthday, and we talked a bit. She asked me if I was dating anyone (she ALWAYS asks me this question! WHY???). And she said as usual "this is just between us". ???

Anyway, she told me how STBX is alone. She said "he doesn't really tell me much so I don't know, but I think he goes to listen to bands and also goes to this Italian Club, but other than that, he is alone, and he doesn't even date". So as far as she knows, STBX is not with anyone. I told her "well his therapist told him not to date anyone for the next 5 years b/c he is very sick and no relationships will work for him now and he has no right to hurt any more women". She sounded surprised to hear this (even though I am pretty sure I have told her this - see, she, STBX, and his brother are all ADD so they don't remember a lot of things other people have told them), and asked "his therapist said this?" From these reactions as well as the known fact (while I was on an international assignment for one year and STBX and I were living separately, SIL often invited him over to go out and apparently he met many single girls...) I often wonder if she has been inviting STBX over to her parties so that he could meet someone...

Oh well, I guess it should not matter.

Anyway, STBX is not happy, but he does not think he would be happy with me, so what can I do...

Thanks for your comments Slammed. I just can't understand your WH's behaviors, but then again, they are very similar to mine - always indecisive.... Hang in there.

Milk

Happy Monday MB friends. Hope we are going to survive another week!

I just had a thought..., do you think if you had a controlling spouse, and you want to get out of R (w/o A), would it be the controlling spouse's fault? I met someone who told me an incredible story and got me thinking...

Send, is it true that non-custodial parent can claim a dependent for tax deduction as long as he pays CS?

Thanks!
Milk

Good morning, Milk-
Glad to hear that your dealing with STBXH were at least
pleasant. While I'm sure it's really hard, I am sure it
does make you feel better when it can be that way for DS3's
sake. I also agree and am glad you spoke up about the tooth-
brushing ! (Funny how the WH's "disappear" when convenient
but still want to claim participation when it benefits them !)
I think you have been showing so much strength, Milk and
hope you are feeling as good as possible as things.

My weekend was okay.
Headed home Friday feeling pretty gloomy since I knew WH
wouldn't be there and was on his weekend trip with OW.
I was surprised to find that he had left a note for me.
Basically it just said what he'd already told me - that he
felt he "needed" to be able to do this before he/we could
move forward, needed a "clean slate", hoped it would be the
step he had to take to be able to proceed.

Sat.I worked in the morning, then ran errands, got groceries
and went shopping. Just ate, did some housework and watched
a movie in the evening.

Yesterday I did more housework and laundry then washed my
car and got cleaned up. Didn't know what time to expect WH,
and wasn't sure what I wanted to do or say when he got back.
Tried reading more of "Love Must Be Tough" and part of "SAA"
again and just got to feeling like my head was swimming with
too many thoughts- try to continue with a "Plan A" ?, go to
"Plan B" ?, ask questions or back off ?, give an ultimatum
?, give up ?? ....

When WH got home, around 5pm, I just continued with what I
was doing and thought I'd at least wait awhile to say much
or ask anything. WH was very sunburned (was skiing) and
seemed really tired. Waited until he was all unpacked and
settled, and then just asked him if "it had accomplished
what he had hoped it would" as far as giving him closure
or helped with making a decision ?
He said he didn't want to talk much ( as usual) but did say
it had helped some, that he was thinking and deciding about
what he wanted to do, and would let me know more "soon".
As usual, this just seemed like a "stall" to me and was
frustrating. I knew not to push for more talking, as when
he's in this mood we don't get anywhere and usually argue,
but I'm so tired of his confusion !

Just went about the rest of the evening being pleasant and
not saying too much. Ate, watched some TV and WH fell asleep
laying on our bed while watching a movie. WH had two short
conversation with OW when she called on his cell phone.
Later, I got ready for bed and then took the dog out. Was
surprised to come back and find WH already falling asleep
in our bed (since he slept in the downstairs guest room for
a few nights before he left last week). Don't know what had
happened that caused him to do that last week, but I had
sort of assumed he has some type of misplaced "loyalty" to
OW and didn't want to sleep in the bed with me. Now that
he got back I don't know either, what caused it. Did make
me wonder if things didn't go so well with OW, or if he
just was comfortable and didn't want to go downstairs !!?
I hate trying to analyze anything he says or does !!

Got off to sleep okay but woke up later and just laid there
for a long time, with everything swirling in my head.
Tried to think clearly of what I thought was really going on
and the best I could come up with was:
That WH had, after the DUI situation ocurred, decided to
re-think and re-evaluate things and also felt a longing for
home and me while he was very distraught, anxious and
depressed. I think the things he said about being sorry he'd
hurt me, missing things we'd done, and more were probably
sincere.
I also think that he and OW did "break things off" to at
least some degree at that time, although his "addiction",
mental/emotional issues, guilt, or something kept him still
connected with her some and unable to make a clean break.

I don't think he wanted to tell her he was with me or had
decided to work on the M, either because after telling her
how awful me and M were he couldn't admit it, or in order to
keep the "door open" in case he wanted to get back with her.

Although I do think her behavior in calling our house, being
rude and nasty to me, leaving messages, and sending me that
packet were very "over the top", I can realize that this was
partly WH's fault, because he was not being honest to her
and she was reacting based on what she was being told.

I know that WH did not tell OW that we were going on a trip.
I feel certain that he told her he went out of town to visit
his ailing father (he was in the hospital) and that she was
paranoid that I had gone with him. I saw that she called our
house at 630am on the weekend that he was gone, and I'm sure
she did it trying to find out if I was home or not !
Then she called WH constantly while we were gone, even calling his cell 13 times while we were out looking around
and doing things (and he left his phone in the room).
All this makes me think that she has either got some real
obessive or addictive issues going on as well.

Don't have any idea of what changed when we got back, as it
seemed WH made a complete turnaround in less than a day.
This is where I'm really stumped and can't figure out how
he made such a change so suddenly, and after we'd just had
a fun time together ! But, he was right back on the WS
"script", conveniently forgetting the fun we'd been having,
the progress we'd made, the things he'd said, so definitely
was right back fully immersed in the "fog". In the phone
conversation between WH and OW, I heard him telling her he'd
do "whatever it took" to prove himself, that he'd be an
"open book" to be honest and no secrets, that he'd get
right on us getting divorced, and that they could do something on the weekend.
Two days later, WH tells me he is going skiing. Obviously,
I'm smart enough to figure out that this is his "doing
something" with OW. I let it be know right off that I know
this is what he's doing and he doesn't deny it. I asked to
discuss the issue when we go to his counseling session (he
agrees) but then it doesn't seem to go well and I regret
that we even discussed it.
A day later, WH acts differently and tries to tell me the
trip is needed to "finalize" things with OW and be able to
move on. I don't know if he really believes this, or if it
just another method to "stall", but I feel like he is trying
to keep both OW and I hanging, and not being honest with
either...

I am just so tired of trying to figure it all out, and of
the lies. I think he's so used to telling people what they
want to hear and never being able to face conflict, or a
person being mad, upset, or thinking less of him, that he
doesn't even realize how much he does it.
I asked Friday where he was going skiing and he told me a
particular place, but last night after he got home I saw
a receipt that shows he really was somewhere else, so he
wasn't even truthful about that- ! (and why not, since I
knew he was with her).

The house he has been renovating is almost done. He's taken
me to see it, and I've also helped with picking out some
colors, light fixtures, etc. because, for awhile, he was talking about us both moving there. Now he's mentioned just
him moving there. (Will make it easier to talk and see OW,
I guess). I feel upset at the thought of him moving out
again since that's a big step backwards, but I guess maybe
I just need to not worry about it, and let it go that way
if it goes... at least the contact with OW is not "in my
face", and I can not have to continuously deal and think
about all this mess. Guess I almost wish he'd never come
home and I'd never gotten my hopes up, because everything
is much more "at the surface" now, than when he was at his
own place, seeing OW, and having little to do with me and
I'd gotten used to it.

Last week, when I talked to Jennifer, she had suggested
continuing trying to do a good Plan A, so that if WH does
move back out he would go with good thoughts and memories
of me and our M. I guess I can continue to try to do that
but feel like I need to really "back off" some, quit trying
to talk, not ask questions, and just "coast" along for awhile because I'm getting too tired, too stressed, and
too confused from all the thinking, analyzing, etc.
If he does move back out, then she suggested using that as my time to go to a Plan B.

Sorry this is so long- just feeling very frustrated, tired
of it all, and venting....
Hope your day is good !
Slammed

milkshake--- I have gone through this thread and you have come a long , long way. I'll be honest and tell you that I read most of YOUR posts in here to see what your situation is. Thanks for posting in my thread. My thread is and remains a testimony of how people change...for the good and the bad. I continue posting here because so many people come here feeling abnormal for how they feel, for their despair, and their pain! If I can help just one person then I am happy about sharing. Now, my wife would feel differently about sharing my experiences with you all.

As far as the tax question goes. In the absence of an agreement stating otherwise the person supporting the dependent is entitled to the exemption. Paying child support doesn't entitle the payer that exemption because normally that child is not with them the majority of the time. Clearly from what I read you're entitled to claim head of household (he left, abandoned you and child), married - jointly or married -separately. He can file single, or with your consent the other 2. However, the laws in this area seem to change a lot. Do not give him benefit of deduction, in my opinion.

hope this helps...