Dear Cinderella,

Thanks for your question.

I do not recall the meaning of the terms you are using, although they sound familiar. If you could provide a link, or definition for me, it would help me to respond more quickly and accurately. Other readers might also benefit from your insights.

In the meantime, I will try to look up the meaning of the abreviations that you used.

A previous poster or two recommended that I should give my son an ultimatum to move out, or improve his household chore participation. In the past, my wife has opposed many steps I have tried to initiate. Since I have moved out of the house some 2 1/2 weeks ago, my wife has been increasingly taking charge, and assuming responsibility for College Son's chore particpation.

This morning, I asked my wife to make a plan for the option of asking Son to move out. I said that her power was, in part, a power to ask son to move out of the house. I suggested that she feel comfortable with that power, and have a plan to smoothly and constructively, impliment having Son to move out of the house. Hopefuly, Son's chore particpation habits wil continue to improve, and an ulimtatum will be unnecessary.

Wife was not oppositional, and seemed willing to discuss a plan to move son out, while providing financial assistance for him to finish his last year of undergraduate college.

So I see some progress.

I will try to research the answer to your question.
1344

Myers-Briggs Type Indicator = MBTI
Introverted Sensing Thinking Perceiving = ISTJ
(you could be an ESTJ = Extroverted STJ)

You should be able to do an internet search for information on the Myers Briggs personality types.

Cinderella,
As an ISTJ myself, I don't think the ISTJ personality type is the source of Senator H's communication style. This statement from earlier in the thread explains it to me:

Dear Cinderalla,

I have not reviewed the Meyers-Griggs for some time, so thank you for bringing the concpets to back my attention.

Here is a link to the description of different Junian peronsality types:
http://www.personalitypage.com/portraits.html

I don't think I am inconsistent with the ISTJ qualities listed for that type.

There is more to my challenges than described by ISTJ.

I struggle with my oppositonal impulses. ODD, Oppositional Definant Disorder is supposed to stop at the end of Adolecence.

My Boss is also Oppositonal. Today, I phoned him and asked if he saw the note I left for him. That note contradicted the note I had left him the day before, with which he did not agree. So I explained that I had originaly thought the machinery was operating OK, but my latest note said that furhter testing indicated HE was RIGHT, that the machine needed further repairs. My boss was happy because I admitted I was wrong. Make-Wrong is an essential part of an Oppositional ouitlook.

My wife is not following through on changing Son's habits, and I am not sure that it is fair to expect her to show some consistency. It may be better to just work on W to get Son moved out. That is looking more doable.

My Mother-in-law is coming beck to her apartment soon, so I moved all my stuff out of her apartment, left it clean.

I am working on my invisible skills. I clean the dish or silver ware immediatly after use, and wipe it dry with a paper towel, and put it back in the drawer or cupboard. Usually, I let things soak, until the next time I need dishes.

Blessings
1385

I had a feeling the ISTJ personality type might not be unrelated to some of your issues. I also didn't think it was the only challenge. Do you have some Narcisim added to the mix?

This is incorrect.

A Harley quote, straight from the Basic Concepts:



Disrespectful Judgments


When requests don't get you what you want, and demands don't work either, our instincts and habits often provide us with another stupid and abusive strategy -- disrespectful judgments. Without a doubt, demands are abusive, but disrespectful judgments often make demands seem merciful in comparison.

In the final analysis, disrespectful judgments represent an effort to force our spouses to give us what we want in marriage, but it's often cleverly disguised. Instead of making an outright demand, we present our problem as if it were really our spouse's personal shortcoming. We try to "straighten out" our spouse in an effort to get our way.

At the time we rationalize our disrespect by convincing ourselves that we're doing our spouses a big favor, to lift them from the darkness of their confusion into the light of our superior perspective. If they would only follow our advice, we tell ourselves, they could avoid many of life's pitfalls-and we would also get what we want.

A disrespectful judgment occurs whenever one spouse tries to impose a system of values and beliefs on the other. When a husband tries to force his point of view on his wife, he's just asking for trouble. When a wife assumes that her own views are right and her husband is woefully misguided -- and tells him so -- she enters a minefield.

In most cases, a disrespectful judgment is simply a sophisticated way of getting what one spouse wants from the other. But even when there are the purest motives, it's still a stupid and abusive strategy. It's stupid because it doesn't work, and it's abusive because it causes unhappiness. If we think we have the right -- even the responsibility -- to impose our view on our spouses, our efforts will almost invariably be interpreted as personally threatening, arrogant, rude, and incredibly disrespectful. That's when we make sizable withdrawals from the Love Bank.

How can you know if you're a perpetrator of disrespectful judgments? The simplest way to find out is to ask your spouse. But you may be a little confused as to what exactly you should ask. To help you ask the right questions, I've provided you the Disrespectful Judgments Questionnaire:


Disrespectful Judgments Questionnaire
Circle the number that best represents your feelings about the way your spouse tries to influence your attitudes, beliefs, and behavior. If you circle a number greater than 1 for any question, try to think of an example that you can share with your spouse and write it on a sheet of paper.

1. Does your spouse ever try to "straighten you out?"


Almost Never---------------Sometimes----------Much of the Time
1----------2----------3----------4----------5----------6----------7


2. Does your spouse ever lecture you instead of respectfully discussing issues?


Almost Never---------------Sometimes----------Much of the Time
1----------2----------3----------4----------5----------6----------7


3. Does your spouse seem to feel that his or her opinion is superior to yours?


Almost Never---------------Sometimes----------Much of the Time
1----------2----------3----------4----------5----------6----------7


4. When you and your spouse discuss an issue, does he or she interrupt you or talk so much that you are prevented from having a chance to explain your position?


Almost Never---------------Sometimes----------Much of the Time
1----------2----------3----------4----------5----------6----------7

5. Are you afraid to discuss your points of view with your spouse?

Almost Never---------------Sometimes----------Much of the Time
1----------2----------3----------4----------5----------6----------7


6. Does your spouse ever ridicule your point of view?


Almost Never---------------Sometimes----------Much of the Time
1----------2----------3----------4----------5----------6----------7


The scoring for this questionnaire is simple. Unless all of your spouse's answers are "1," you're probably engaging in disrespectful judgments. Almost all of us are guilty of this Love Buster from time to time; so don't be alarmed if you get some twos or threes. But if your spouse gave you any fours, fives, sixes, or sevens, you're at risk to lose your spouse's love for you because your disrespectful judgments are rising to the level of abuse.

If your spouse identifies you as one who makes disrespectful judgments, you may be tempted to make yet another disrespectful judgment and claim that he or she is wrong! Resist that temptation at all costs because in every case of abuse, the victim is a far better judge of its existence than the perpetrator. Take his or her word for it, and start working on a plan to eliminate whatever it is your spouse interprets as disrespect.

When we try to impose our opinions on our spouses, we imply that they have poor judgment. That's disrespectful. We may not say this in so many words, but it's the clear message that they hear. If we valued their judgment more, we might question our own opinions. What if they're right, and we're wrong?

I'm not saying that you can't disagree with your spouse. But I want you to respectfully disagree. Try to understand your spouse's reasoning. Present the information that brought you to your opinion and listen to the information your spouse brings. Entertain the possibility that you might change your own mind, instead of just pointing out how wrong your spouse is.

That's how respectful persuasion works. You see, each of you brings two things into your marriage -- wisdom and foolishness. Your marriage will thrive when you blend your value systems, with each one's wisdom overriding the other's foolishness. By sharing your ideas, sorting through the pros and cons, you can create a belief system superior to what either of you had alone. But unless you approach the task with mutual respect, the process won't work and you will destroy your love for each other in the process.

In most cases, disrespectful judgments are nothing more than stupid and abusive attempts to get what you want in your marriage. As is the case with demands, disrespect doesn't work -- it's simply a form of verbal abuse.
Disrespectful Judgments and Questionnaire

Dear Cinderella,

Some earlier posts to this thread have pointed out my intellectualizing, overly complicated approach. The ISTJ personality type is an intellectulizing personality type and does fit me. That information may help other readers to understand my thinking approch to problem sloving.

My astrology sign is Aquarius, and those traits are similar to the ISTJ personality type. The Aquarian personality traits are fairly acurate in matching to my personality. Astrology does not fit everyone, and sometimes a detailed Astrological chart is needed to fully understand the full wisdom Astrology has to offer.

Ideas?
1445

Dear Laura, Lucks,

I gave the survey to my wife over the phone, and she came back with 1 or 2 on all survey questions.

The question that W felt was important, that was not on the survey, was how willing a spouse is to change their mind to accomodate the wishes of the other spouse. W feels that while I am respectful, I should be more accomodating in changing my mind sooner.

I have added a request for a change for my wife. I have asked her to avoid smirking. W has a habit of contrdicting me, in the presence of our College Son, by deliberately diverging from established chore procedures, and smirking about her divergance.

Since W agrees that College Son should improve his chore participation, excercising her creativity and independence by zig-zag chore systems, is not helping communicate to Son the need for more diligence on chores. I told W that if she and I were alone, then her sporadicity might be entertaining. But in trying to coach our son, inconsistency is undesirable.

W and I have agreed to work on Son's concpets of Romance. He has some movies in a closet, that he has bought on sale, and watched. W can then ask what was good or Bad about various characters or situations in the movies, and Son can express his opinions, and flush out his ideas on Risks and Embarrassment in Love.


Revised Goals for Habit Changing:
My current revison of my list of targeted habits:

W:
1. Avoid phrasing ideas or requests in a Make-Wrong framework.
2. Respect requests for a shift from Micro-focusing on a particular problem, to the full, big picture.
3. Minimize moving my stuff around, other than on the first floor, without POJA.
4. Habitually refusing to discuss planning for habit imporvement for Son, or Moving Son out.
5. Contradicting a statement or belief of mine, without an emergency, or a considerate context.
6. Smirking when making deviations from standard household chore systems.
7. Have questions to ask Son about Embarrassment in Romance from movies previously watched by Son.


For College Son:
A. Rinse his dishes, and put silverware in the soaking bowl.
B. Follow the laundry system, with no clothes on the floor, except dirty clothes in his room.
C. Assist with the washing/waxing/upkeep of the car he is designated to drive.
D. Habitually pick up all his items from the first floor.
E. Fold newspapers after reading, keeping sections from the same day together.
F. Clear the table after he eats of all his items, and clean the table to at least its previous level of cleanliness.
G. Talk repsectfully to parents.

For Senator_H:

a. Come home earlier from work. Work on Underpinning Feeling: Foolish for coming home early when W is out carousing. Request to W: Let me know by putting 2's on my pager when you get home.

b. Keeping basement, utility room and bedroom better organized. Work on Underpinning feeling of insuffient appreciation, consideration.

c. Focus more on Research/Writing. Work on Handling Competing Time Requests from Family.

Yo, in case you haven't figured it out, I'll let your ISTJ characteristics have a bit of my 2-cents worth. You can't change anyone by issuing ultimatums - unless, of course, your goal is to get them to detest you. I had an ISTJ x and would just as soon not be in the same room with another ISTJ for the rest of my life. That's how impressed I was with his rigidity, demands, and self-perfection. He has not yet realized that no one has died and left him the title of 'god'.

Now, I realize that you might take what I've just said as a disrespectful judgement.

But, I want you to sense how much resentment can build up inside people who live with ISTJs. You can sit here and intellectualize all you want. It might be that a little love and compassion from you would work a whole lot better than the demands you make on others.

Trust me on this one.

At least I realize I am flawed which is more than I can say for a many of the ISTJs I have known.

Senator,

I haven't posted to you in awhile but I have been following your thread. I recently found out you used to post under a different name so I went back and read a few of your old post from last January. In those posts you had the same issues of college son (who is 27!) having poor roomate habits, issues about the W's livingroom design, issues about the space in the basement for your research stuff, the way your W address you.

I also saw the EXACT same behavior from you in respect to your LBing, DJing and control.

10 months Senator! Ten months and nothing has changed has it?

Elspeth said something in the last few days on another thread that I ( and others) though was pretty profound.
"When I have waited and waited and waited and waited and waited for someone to "wake up", that someone was generally me."

Ready to wake up yet Senator? Ready to admit that if you want change in your life it needs to come from you? Ready to admit what you are doing isn't working? Ready to take the real challenge of working on yourself instead of trying to change others to accomodate your flaws and faults?

You are like a puppy chasing it's tail, too busy to look up to see that your tail that you can't get to is actually connected to you. Too busy to notice the obsticles that you keep banging your head against aren't movable so YOU need to change your course.

I've never seen someone so ****** bent on ignoring real issues and solutions and so determined to continue in a course that over time has proven to be ineffective.

College son:

Instead of trying to get the W to take care of the issue and get son to move why don't you do it? Or better yet, why can't you and W sit down with son TOGETHER, tell him you both are in agreement it is time for him to move, give him a deadline(I suggest 2 months) to find an apt. Let him know any financial assistance you are willing to provide him whether that be damage deposit and/or monthly rent allowance. DONE, NON-NEGOTIABLE, BOUNDARY SET, DEADLINE WILL BE ENFORCED.

What's so dang difficult about that?

Symphony

Dear Cinderalla,

Thank you for disclosing the source of your passion, that your ex-husband was also a stubbbornly prinpled, unsympatahetic individual, like myself.

I learned early on in marriage therapy that I needed to give in on small and medium difficulty requests quickly,and save my stubborness for the difficutl issues. In Astrology, Aquarius, Taurus Leo and Scorpio are the Fixed signs or stubborn men. I would encourage all men who havce thge quality of being resistant to change, to consider makin git a habit to give in aon small and medium issues. You have my permission to E-mail this post to your ex-husband.

I have become aware that you are correct that I am short on giving Positives. I have issued some ultimatums to my wife, and she has respnded by reducing her dfisplays of disrespect for me in the home.

However, my oppositional College son has become withdrawn. I went to alibris, and searched under affirmation, compliments, praise, joy and congratualtions, and found a few books that I could review to do a better job myself and giving recognition to acheivement and effort.

I should do a better job with my carrots.

You state that coaching CHANGE is not possible. I agree that there are many unpleasant meethods that some people use to attemt to create change. Since getting a better understanding of NLP/Matrix analysis, I see that Change can be liberating. I am endeavoring to find palatable methods for change, to avoid building the resentment that you feel.

My first challennge was to get better cooperationg from my Wife. She has reduced her undercutting smirks, and slowed her zig-zag rapid chore system restucturuing.



Ideas?
1521

Dear Symphony,

Your suggestion of reaching an agreement with my wife is perfectly logical, for ordinary cirumstances.

My wife has been dedicated to undercutting my ideas, so an agreement with her was not possible.

Since I moved out for 2 weeks, and came back, W seems more willing to avoid disrespectful remarks, smirks and chore subtrigfuge.

I still find the image of a dog chasing his tail, as a vivd image in my mind. I feel that I am seeking new strategies and apporaches, so the image of Cocker Spaniel I once saw chasing his tail still brings warm humor to mind, I have not yet made it fit this situation of mine.

I have asked W to take the lead in assisting College Son to becme less oppositional, and improve his roomate skills.

I have identifed a therapuetic style in the movie GOOD WILL HUNTING. I have the DVD, and my wife udnerstands the style of engaging Son in a discussion of Romance Issues. My wife and I fell asleep last night watching Good Will Hunting. I have now watched all the Deletd Scenes.

Many movies display the risks of embarrassment in seeking a love relationship. I am currently working on coming up with questions covering the embarrassment felt by Randy in ONE NIGHT AT McCOOL'S. My most recent theory on my College Son's underpinning denial realting to his ODD is an anxiety about the risks involved in longer term relationships.

At the moment, I am working to improve my understanding of NLP/Matix Analysis. I am working on improving my skills at making positively encouraging comments, recognizing effort and risk. I am trying to get my own research systems in better order, together with better bill paying and financial record systems. Did you have additional areas in which you feel I could improve?

At the beginning of this thread, I was just ranting about the circumstances of disrespect from my College Son and Wife. I feel that I have my wife better on board with working on Son's problems, for now. I feel that I have grown, personally, in the process of trying to help my son and my wife. I feel there are some doors of knowledge I have opened, which have more information for me to help them. I hope they get themselves sufficiently together so that I can focus my attention on my own chosen endeavors in life.

Ideas?

Just one quick thought, Senator.....

The tone in your posts alludes to you treating your marriage like a mathematical equation. If you can identify all the variables, and solve one variable for another, then you should be able to get the result you are looking for.

The problem is that family, marriage, and love are not mathematical equations. They require emotions.

You have already acknowledged that you 'intellectualize' things. But I truly believe you go further than that. Your lack of emotion almost supercedes intellectualization. You "solve" every problem with an equation. And if that one doesn't work, you substitute with another.

Perhaps you should look into inserting some EMOTION into your equations....of course, this will 'skew' the results....but you might actually get closer to the answers you want.

Personally, I could not imagine living in a marriage inflicted with such a drought of emotions. I would most likely become parched, whither, and die.

Good luck.

Dear L I T,

Your evaluation of my marriage as barren of Love Feelings and Emotions has been suggested by earlier posters, in one way or another.

I am willing to assume that you are correct, that my marriage, asnd family, would be improved if I put in more feelings and displays of love and affection.

More touching, priase, joking, affectionate squeeze? How about a new squeeze of affection to the arm? Maybe the top muscle by the shoulder? Deltoid muscles. I have some acupressure books, I can look to see what might be good friendly sqeeze points.

Any furhter ideas of how I can make concrete changes? Are you dating yet? What kind of guys are you trying to avoid?

Thanks for your input.

Senator,

Again, you approach this as an 'equation'..... IF I touch, give praise, squeeze the arm..... THEN my marriage will improve.

Senator - you can touch, give praise, squeeze the arm, etc....but if it's not FELT by you, it will not be FELT by her. People usually have a pretty keen sense of when someone is doing something because they have/need to and not because the want to.

Do you have feelings of affection toward her? Did you ever? And how do/did you show those feelings of affection?

Other people have probably already gone through this with you. Quite honestly, I feel a little frustrated reading your approach to this thread sometimes because it feels like reading a math textbook. Dry, same statements, same principles, and devoid of any depth. I don't mean that to be rude....but just that it seems so impersonal.

Do you have feelings for anyone other than your immediate family and wife? Parents, perhaps? Relatives? Good friends?


No, I'm not dating yet. I am working to better myself before I enter the dating world. So I can't tell you what kind of men I will 'avoid.' But there's a negative feeling associated with that question for me. My initial gut feeling is that 'avoid' is the incorrect verbage. It seems like it would be more of a choice than an avoidance - based on our compatibility, views on family and marriage, etc.

Hmmmmm....not sure yet. Not there yet <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Dear L I T,

It is true that some things I talk about on MB, fit into one formula, or another. I probably feel more comfortable with formulas.

I do have a feeling about my College son, which is that I am feeling uncomfortable with him in the house. I suppose I could go into a number of reasons, for my being uncomfortable, but that is my summation, without the logical formulas for proof.

Edification is a term meaning to improve respect for both parents, from offspring, by each parent giving respect to the other, in dealing with a youngster. My wife and I have not been building edification, and each of our power, individually,and collectively together, is reduced with our college Son.

For purposes of a formula, Inadequate Parenting Power/respect Equals Discomfort for me.

I have a financial decison to make in the next few days, about keeping an alternative option open for another month. This is an independent action, so I am hesitating to extend. But I feel that W should be moving faster, toward more control, and W acknowledges she is anticipating a slow process.

Discussion phrase: "We desire to keep expenses to a minimum, and I am feeling uncomforable with the level of respect from College Son. You have expressed an interest in getting more respect from Son, but progress is slower than optimal. Please think about the efforts you are making, so you can tell me about realistic expectatons for progress, so that I can understand your timetable for me to feel more comfortable.

I have spent some more money on eBay for self-improvement materials. I bought a casette tape set for $40.00, Buy it Now, and later saw the same set at $10.00 with one hour to go. I spent $300.00 on 6 DVD's, after passing up less comprehensive sets in the range of $50.00 and $170.00. I feel that I have some good coaching study materials. What aspect of self-improvement are you working on? I feel that a woman who is in a self-improvement program, is probably a desirable find. My wife is often in denial about the possibility of her making any change, to make things better.

Blessings
1587

Senator,

I ran across something today while researching and thought you might find it helpful.

A Time For Letting Go...
by Elizabeth Sammons

Next to love, forgiveness is perhaps the most misunderstood term in the human language. Forgiveness has been twisted by a lack of awareness as to how it functions. To forgive does not mean we must rejoin with our ex-lovers, free criminals from prisons, return to old jobs or anything else absurd. We are taught to believe that if we are to forgive the one whom hurt us, it must manifest in some form of our behavior and it reflects weakness. Forgiveness is a function of love that seeks to understand the negative impact of another person and then to release the pain and find inner peace. When you choose to forgive someone, this does not mean that you acknowledge his or her cruel behavior as acceptable. Above all, it does not mean that we assume a superior (holier than thou) attitude to pardon the sins of others.
Let's explore the truth of forgiveness. The meaning of the verb forgive, translates into "to let go", which is the act of forgiveness. Forgiveness is the releasement of negative feelings given to you by another. It is your responsibility to let go of the hurt that another produces for you. The other person can apologize to you for their negative impact, but you still have to let go of the hurt feelings in order for forgiveness to become a healing experience.
What makes forgiveness so difficult for so many? The greatest obstacle in the living of our life is the negative ego, which loves to hold onto a grudge and is our greatest source of resistance towards forgiveness. Our negative ego is what blocks our happiness and peace of mind. We hold within us grudges, bitterness and resentment which later manifest in stress, ulcers and poor health conditions. Ultimately, we have a choice to support our EGO or our SOUL, to be RIGHT or find PEACE.
Forgiveness like all other soul qualities (peace, love, innocence, respect, oneness, and passion) does not require a type of behavior. It begins with a relinquishing of emotional baggage and the choice to function from your Soul verses your negative ego. Forgiveness is a willingness to perceive everyone, including yourself, as either expressing love or feeling a need for more love. It is a relinquishing of a harmful train of thought. Forgiveness offers freedom to live a full and harmonious life.
Holding on to pain only weakens us and produces misery. The purpose of "letting go" is to prevent the mind from becoming a battlefield. Negative feelings evaporate whenever they are looked at calmly, honestly and are dealt with responsibly. Often this process is gradual. The desire to function from your Soul and to live your life with peace of mind is the motivation for forgiving one another.
If you feel that forgiving adds one more grudging obligation to your life, you are functioning from your negative ego. Understanding that forgiveness is the doorway to your happiness is the choice to function from your Soul. When someone attacks you, you must first deal with the hurt feelings that you internally feel. Too many try to forgive without releasing their anger and hurt. That mistake only represses the anger and it festers into resentment down the road.
A great habit to cultivate is to pause whenever you are having difficulty releasing an upset from your mind. Look directly and in detail at the contents of your thoughts. Understand that it is a fear emotion. Step back from them for a moment and gain a new perspective. Give yourself time to forgive, it doesn't have to be instantaneous.
A person who claims they never feel hurt by others are not more spiritually evolved, but more likely emotionally repressed. To be a spiritual person, doesn't mean you have to like the negative ego of everyone that crosses your path, for you would then become transparent and lose your individuality. Liking somebody and letting go of someone's negative impact upon you are two completely different issues.
When you finally understand that you can generate the healing of forgiveness, which you have been seeking outside of yourself you will then have love of self, wholeness. It will never happen until you take full responsibility for every facet of your life and your relationships with others. When you stop looking for love, security and peace outside yourself, and find it within, you are finally set free and the magic of forgiveness has worked its spell.

Dear Symphony,

Forgiveness is an important concept for maintaining mental health. The description of Forgiveness above is helpful and acurate.

Today I watched a movie of a therapy session for an Opossitional College age youngster with my wife. The thrapist did some things correctly, and made some obvious errors. My wife was able to understand the opossitional traps for coaching errors.

This evening, my wife asked me if some dishes on the table and kitchen counter were min. I had prviously agree to be invisible and lcean all my dishes and slver ware, and dry with a paper towel,and return to the cabinet. I answered that the dishes were not mine, and must be either College Son's or hers. My Wife replied that the dishes were not her. She started to involunatirly pick up the dishes of son's to wash. I suggested that to build responsibility, that she leave the dishes where son left them.

Everyone should rinse their dishes, and put them in the dish washer. If the dishwasher is getting full, then the dishwasher should be loaded with soap, and started to run. College Son and wife have some further work to do on managing their kitchen.

I am in a planning mode. I don't really feel anger often. But I am dissatisfied, and I am taking action. I am advising my wife on becoming a better coach for College Son. I am conducting my presence in the house so that reponsiblities of son's chores and roomate habits are not muddied.

I am continuing to work on my skills for building coaching skills in W. I am finding non-confrontational approaches to make progress. Wife is improving her coaching skills, and is getting a better understanding of the challenge of coaching an oppositional college son.

I am working on edification, which is each partner complimenting the other, so that the influence of both parents is increased with the offspring. The motivation for my wife to give me compliments is for her own increase in influential power with out son. If my wife could operationalize edification, our job with Son would be easier. I am working on being more complimentary to wife myself.

Fear is an important emotion to check on. Fear can appear in disguise, in many forms. Everyone can feel fear, in ome situtations. I do fear losing my wife and son, but it is in spite of that fear, that I push for improvements. Fear is not a motivating factor for me, in pushing W for better coaching. I do acknowledge risks in my actions. But I feel that positive outcomes are reasonably attainable, and the risks of Loss cannot be considered significant.


Thanks for your ideas!

Senator,

I did some research on NLP/Matrix Coaching and it seems to me that YOU seem to be mssing one critical piece, here. The coaching should be at the behest of the person being coached. In other words, it must be voluntary. YOU have made the decision that your wife and son need to be coached and YOU are foisting it upon them, whether they want to or not - you give them no choice. Yes, I am sure you "discussed" it with your wife and "gained" her "agreement" that she would try it...but did she truly agree or did she agree to get you off her back? Did she agree because she truly wanted to or because she felt she had no choice? When are you going to open your eyes and see that you are a control freak? Who decided that you have the right to control other adults? Yes, I agree that it is a father's and mother's role to parent their child....but your son is no longer a child - he's 27 years old. At this point, if you haven't influenced him properly yet, chances are you aren't going to - he'll have to come to it on his own. The only thing within your control is whether you choose to allow him to live under your roof.

I am getting the impression that you are the type of person who must be right at all costs and think you are perfect and everyone else should do everything exactly the way you say because you know best. I suspect that, somewhere in life, you got the impression or someone told you that you are highly intelligent and, because of that, now think you know better than everone else. Well, there are an awful lot of us in life and on this board who are extremely high IQ/very high functioning (yes, we have our share of Mensa members, extremely high intellects and, even, a true PhD rocket scientists). The key to our success is that we recognize our humanity and that we all have faults and we accept those faults. We work on improving ourselves and leave the work of improving others to themselves.

As long as you spend your time trying to change (also should be read as "control") others and do not look inwards, you will get nowhwere. I am sure, since you seem to know everything, you are aware of the Serenity Prayer. It is at the foundation of AA and other recovery programs, but it has a very strong application to all of us in our everyday lives....

Regards,

BB

PS - I am curious and I know other posters have asked the same question (which I notice you have never answered) - what type of research is it that you do at home and what type of work do you do for a living?

Dear Brit's Brat,

Thank you for your feedback.

I outlined the NLP/Matirx approach to my son a few weeks ago, and he seemed to reject the concepts as to having any application or value to himself. He is aware that my wife is studying the cocepts with me, and he cuts off any conversation leading to coaching. But my wife can coach through interaction with Son on household chore problems.

I have some DVD's on NLP/Matirx couaching, and my wife has watched part of the DVD's with me. My wife understands the basic concepts, and has not raised an objection to discussing coaching concepts, but has not taken a leadership role in getting more information, or trying now concepts.

I am working to improve my coaching of coaches skills. I continue to study NLP/Matrix theories and applications. I continue to try to be a better coach to my wife. I continue to offer to assist College Son financially, if he wishes to move out. I encourage my wife to be a better coach for my son. I try to find better ways to give positive affirmations for everyday efforts.

I related earlier that my wife is a creative person, and likes to do houehold chores different ways at different times. Yesterday, I encouraged my wife to leave son's unrinsed dishes where he had left them, on the table or kitchen counter.

Today I noticed that the dishwasher was full of dishes that my wife had hand washed, and left to dry. So the ordinary sytem of rinsing the dishes and placing them in the dish washer was unworkable, due to my wife's creativity.

I asked wife if it was OK for me to unload the clean, dried dishes from the dishwasher, so Son would have some logical place to put his rinsed dishes. W gave me permission and seemed to understand that having a full load of clean dishes in the dishwasher, created a roadblock for Son to be responsible.

You asked what I do for a living, and what research I do. I would prefer to keep those details private, but I do not limit myself to any field of research, which is why my stuff takes more room. I do library research in Law, Medicine, Psychology, Engineering, Politics, Foreign Affaris, Religion, etc. Are there any questions you feel have importance to be researched?

Intelligence and common sense don't always run together. I think my family has more intelligence than common sense. I also have a lazy streak. My wife made comments yesterday admitting her laziness in not being more orgnized. My idea of order is to wait until I cannot find something, and then try to get more organized, directed at finding the lost item. Once the lost item is found, or substituted, then organizing work stops.

I gave my wife a discovery silence this morning. I pointed out that we could do better with edification, or enhancing our influence with our Son by avoiding negative comments about each other, that were picked up by our Son. She agreed that even her making a face the other day, had set off a percpetion of her disaproval, with Son. I had been asking her to check her smirking. I went on to add that we should be mentioning compliments about each other to Son. SILENCE. W had a revelation, that she was not working on her compliments for me, to Son.

I have gotten some books on compliments, quotations and positive re-inforcement, but they have not seemed to be as helpful as I need. Maybe just going over a thesarus would be better. I have seen some MB posts on compliments. I should probably do a search.

There is a blurred distinction between coaching and controlling. If my coaching suggestion is implimented, then I am in control. Controlling carries the connotation of using threats, blackmail, or other undue pressures to obatain compliance. What evil do you see that I may not be disclosing in these posts?

You mentioned that my option was for son to move out. My option, in my opinion, is for me to move out. Then it is wife's job to figure out if she wants to ask for my help to ask son to move out. Some people are slow to mature. I care for my son, and hope to help him to develop better habits to be a more successful roomate.

Children often play one parent against the other. I have participated in playing a more important, encouraging role for my son. Unfortuantely, that had an adverse impact on my son's respect for my wife's authority. It also gave my wife an out, for not exercizing her authority evenhandedly, to generate better roomate habits.

Shortly after the start of this thread, I changed from being the lead parenting figure for Son, to being a background figure, with Wife having control and responsibility. Once Wife has caught up with her share of coaching college Son, I may ease back into a more active role.

Thanks again for your ideas and questions.