I just needed some incite and advise regarding my current situation. Pardon me if this seems too long. I have been with my wife since we were 14, off and on of course, we married about 6 years ago. We are now both 30 and it is a mess. Are problems started with our busy schedules, both of us working full time and going to school. We began to drift as the months went by.

About a year ago she started to get involved with this social Web site and was meeting people online. WW began an emotional affair with this man from Hawaii. I noticed this after she began showing strange behavior (complaining about everything I did, our marriage). She was just so distant. I then decided to check her email and found very endearing and loving letters to this other OM. I went nuts….LB’s all over the place. I left her for a few days then came back to reconcile. The problem was that the emotional addiction to this man was already in place. While I was gone she turned to him for emotional support, which drew her to him even more. We had a long talk when I came back and she agreed to work on our marriage. The next few days were rough. We started MC and she seemed to be unsure of our future together. She could not give me any sign of hope when we would have our conversations. I knew it was because she was confused about something, which I found suspicious since she said she broke off contact with the OM since we started MC. I later found out she still was emailing and calling him. Again I went nuts with the LB’s yelling, punching holes in walls telling her I could never forgive her for this. I left again only to return a few days later to try and work it out again. The following months were ****** for me. She would continue to try to talk to him until I got in the way and told him to back off. There was no contact between the OM and my WW for bit and we tried to work on us the following year, but my wife had resentment toward me from interfering with the A and it was hard for us to reconcile because of it.

She began taking a lot of business trips for work. This of course did not help me with dealing with the EA. She would rarely call to see how I was doing at home and showed no signs of missing me. She even told me that she felt more relaxed when she was away from home. I had a feeling but didn’t want to think the worst. So finally about three months ago I noticed she was being more secretive with her online adventures. She brought home a computer from work that I could not access. My WW would always be uncomfortable whenever I would enter the room while she was online. I began to ask her more and more questions and she became more and more distant and angry. She began the whole “ I need to find myself” speech and that she just wanted to be single. She didn’t want to answer to anyone. She also said we were married young and she was not able to experience all that life had to offer…almost sounds like a MLC at 30. All were signs of an A. After a little snooping on her work computer I found letters to the OM from Hawaii. She had planned on meeting him in San Diego later this month with references to having sex. I confronted my WW about this and she tried to play it down. Then after a lot of arguing and talking she spilled the beans and told me the affair had turned into a PA. She had met with him in Hawaii when she was supposedly on a business trip. I was devastated, I was so depressed and angry at the same time…I wanted to off myself. She seemed genuinely sad and remorseful for what she did and agreed to work on us. We went to our MC and she agreed to be honest and be totally open to me as far as not being secretive anymore. I thought the roller coaster had finally come to an end then BOOM…the biggest fall was yet to come. The very next day my wife came home sad and moping. I asked her what was the matter? She told me after thinking about the situation she did not want to be hovered on by me and that she wanted her freedom and privacy. WW said she did not want to hurt me again. I asked her if it was because she wanted to see the OM, and she said that was a part of it….I told her that was all of it! Oh yeah and an update on the OM he told her has a girlfriend but he wants her to continue to be his “special friend”…WTH? Talk about being in the fog…. why can’t she see what she has become. Some guy’s booty call whenever he has the time for it!!

We went to counseling again to discuss separation. It was quick to say the least. She told the MC that it was not possible at this time for her not to contact the OM and that she needed this time to figure her life out. The MC asked me if I still wanted to see my WW once a week. I told her I could not until she broke off all contact with the OM and was committed to working on us (plan B).

Now this is the strange part. I new she was leaving in a couple days and I wanted to show her that I was still in love with her in spite of what happened. I know I was not supposed to, but I was showing her affection and kissing her and holding her…Normally she would be uncomfortable with the affection but she was actually retuning it. It seemed as though the reality of her leaving me was hitting her and she was missing me, and she had not even left yet. I never mentioned anything about the A or what she was going to do while we were separated, I just was trying to be there for her and she seemed very appreciative of it. Another thing that was strange is that she seemed more optimistic about the outcome of this separation. She says she needed to get these feelings out of her system so she doesn’t do it when she is 40. I would tell her I wasn’t sure if anything good would come out of this she would get mad and say…it is up to you if you want me back at the end of this separation...Meaning that she will want to reconsile as soon as this A washes over(if it ever does). How can she be so hopeful? Is this just a fantasy she wants to fulfill or is she just trying to make me feel better? Or does she want me to hang on to false hope so she can continue to drag me along? She seemed genuinely sad at the thought of not talking to me either. She says she really wants to hear from me now and then…I was wondering if I should continue contact or should I just stay dark. It will obviously be hard for the OM to meet all emotional needs since he is in Hawaii and he has a girlfriend. Should I continue using a separated plan A? Or would that just be a “having her cake” kind of deal?

Raro, I vote for staying in a seperated Plan A for now and let me explain why. I think that whatever has happened in the marriage that caused you to drift apart is still there and has not been fixed. I believe that y'all became very detached because of all of her traveling, which is the kiss of death even in the best of marriages. Going into Plan B will not solve that problem, and is more likely to faciliate a permanent ending of your M.

I think her affair will quickly crumble because she has settled for a very shabby little fantasy, being woman #2. She must be terribly addicted to this creep to settle for this. I think this gives you an excellent opportunity to try and meet her needs and rebuild your relationship.

But first, I would suggest a few things to arm yourself because you need to be educated and do this strategically if you are going to do it. I would get the books Surviving an Affair and His Needs, Her Needs by Willard Harley as fast as you can. Try to determine what went wrong in your marriage and what are her top emotional needs. Use this information to develop a strategy to meet her needs as best you can.


This tells me alot about how she feels right now and I would heed this advice. I would suggest that you DO NOT chase her or ever appear too needy or clingy. Don't ever initiate the first phone call, let her call you. Women do not respect men they can run over and many women do not love men they don't respect. So, be strategic in your approach and do not appear too over eager or available.

If you were my son, I would ask you this question:

son, is this the woman you want to be the mother of your children? Spend the rest of your life with?

How would you answer?

I think about this every day...Hard to say since this doesn't seem like her (foggy)


Hey Melodylane,

Thanks for the great advise....I totally agree with you on not being clingy. It's just hard not to be when your WS drops the A bomb on you. I will TRY to play hard to get. She is more responsive when I give her the space and wait for her to initiate. She went on a girls trip to Vegas last weekend and couldn't stop calling me because I woudn't answer my phone. One question, how long should I stay on this seperated/plan A till I do a solid plan B? It seems as though she can do this long distance A forever.

Raro, stay in Plan A long enough to attract her back into the fold. Right now she is detached. Reel her in and once you have her on the hook, then go into Plan B.

Another question....I have not contacted the OM yet regarding the affair...Should I?

It wouldn't do any good to confront the OM, but could you contact his girlfriend?

Raro -

I felt compelled to respond, as your situation is so very similar to mine. I started dating my WW when I was 17, and we married when I turned 23. I am 32 now (31 when she moved out) and I travelled extensively for work. She got lonely and started an A with a married OM - who happens to also have a 5 y/o son.

As to what you should do...

Definately don't be needy! I was WAY too needy, and LB'ed all the time in the beginning. I know this is going to seem impossible, but follow Plan A as best you can. She has to see you as a safe place to be.

Also, expose! That is the other part of Plan A. Expose to the OM's GF if you can, but anyone else who could influence your WW. Start small and work your way out. Just be prepared for all of the WS's lines about now it "REALLY is over" garbage....all smoke.

I think the best thing is to avoid the long relationship talks right now...just go on about your life, fill as many EN's as she will allow you to, and expose...

TM

Update on my WW.

She came over to the house yesterday to get the rest of her things. She seemed very agitated. I asked her what was the matter? She said she hated me...I stayed calm and asked her why. She said it is because everyone thinks are marriage is over and I should be telling them otherwise. She is acting strange...like she is in denial of the A. She was out of town for the weekend and asked if I even missed her because I had not called her. She said she missed me and that she wanted to spend the night. I told her that would be fine. Again she was very affectionate hugging and kissing. She then told me that she wasn’t comfortable sleeping at the other house...as if she would miss being home with me. It was very pleasant and we didn't argue.

Before we had separated I found out she was going to San Diego to see the OM. I asked her if she was still going this weekend and she said yes. I was so confused and hurt at the same time…. Why does she make it seem like we are working things out while she continues the A. I asked her why she is still going. She said she was going to go anyway for a girls trip. I sooo felt like telling her B.S.!! She also said she is not pursuing the A. I almost pulled my hair out…. What is this separation all about and what happened to all that talk at our counseling session about her wanting to talk to the OM. Has she gone completely mad or what? She still acts like there is nothing going on but she admitted to everything already!! She also acts as if everything will be OK in few months she just needs this time for it to blow over. I know she is dealing with some major issues in her head. I can only hope her IC well help her with that. At least I was able to keep my cool and just ask questions with out any LB’s or being needy. Is there any explanation for such strange behavior? She just seems so out there….

The past couple days I haven't been calling my wife. But she has been contacting me. She came over today asking me if I wanted to attend a spin class with her. I agreed so we took a nap together till the class started. I was trying my hardest not to engage her...I let her make all the moves.

After we got back from the gym we were saying are goodbyes. I asked her how she was doing at the other house. She told that she missed me and that she was not sleeping well. She told me again that she thinks she made a mistake by leaving and that I was the love of her life. I told her she can come by whenever she needs to if she misses me(was I right in telling her that?). She then told me she would be back home soon. Then she left. Is the fog starting to clear? should I keep up the limited contact with her? I don't know what to do...Everytime she gives me a sign of hope I just want to hug her and tell her to come home already...and I know that's a big no no.

Raro, I think you are doing very well. I would even step it up a bit, without being clingy or chasing her. It would be a good time to send her a nice little card or some flowers telling her you miss her and love her. Very subtle. Maybe even invite her out for a nice dinner.

She is very homesick and her little affair seems to be falling apart. You need to be standing there when it all falls down. Open the door and put out the welcome mat. You are doing very good. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thanks ML, you have been a big help...I am just not sure how sincere she is though. I am just wondering if she is just trying to see if I am still willing to stick around while she fools around. I read something interesting on SYMC..I know I'm not in Plan B yet but here it is.

If You’re in Protection Phase, Stop Talking to Your Spouse!

By *Tak* SYMC

I see so many that do it, and fall of the wagon so often that they might as well not be in the Protection Phase. Apparently, they do not see the harm in this. What I am, therefore, going to do is translate a conversation with a WS during Protection Phase into what the conversation is actually conveying.

What you think goes on:

WS: "I've really been missing you and think that I might be making a mistake."

BS: "Are you still with her/him?"

And the conversation goes on innocently enough. The BS doesn't use harmful habits (demands, disrespect, anger), and thinks that he/she is making good logical points. "See? I'm calm. I've shown him/her what is going on. I've said what I needed to say. Maybe this time he/she will hear me. Maybe this time it will make a difference."

Oh, naive BS. You've just given the WS the reassurance he/she needs to continue straddling the fence. When the WS is willing to make real changes, you will SEE it. These conversations do not give the whole cake, these are a few crumbs tossed your way to see if you will still bite.

HERE IS WHAT IS ACTUALLY GOING ON:

WS: "I'm starting to feel uneasy that you are there for me. Please tell me that you are still on the hook whenever I want you and that I can continue my cake eating."

BS: "Yes, I love you and I'm here. Obviously, I'm still on the hook because I'm investing time, emotion, and effort into speaking with you. See, you are still able to upset me and push my buttons. I am obviously still here to be your doormat no matter what your actions are. You can safely continue to do what you are doing and rest assured I will be here waiting for you."

Now, please, for the love of God and the sake of your own marriage - NO CONTACT.

Raro, SYMC's protection phase is MB's Plan B. You are not there yet. Right now, I think you should be in Plan A and working on attracting your W back to you. She is giving you signals, I would suggest picking up on them.

IF you get into a situation where she is cake eating, just stringing you along while she has her affair, THEN it will be time to go into Plan B. But, I think you need to give it a little more time.

Raro, I am sorry that you are going through this...but it is good that you found MB....you are among friends.

I think you are doing very well with your actions...you will improve even more quickly if you read the articles available on this sight and Dr. Harley's books...Surviving an Affair and His Needs Her Needs. Even though you and WS are apart right now...she want to talk with you...you are filling her need for conversation and she responds when you are affectionate with her...also a big emotional need of hers. Mel is giving you terrific advice....sending/giving your wife something that will remind her of you....something that will touch her and have lasting but a non-threatening memory. Teddy bear? Angel to watch over her?

You are doing great and use this time to work on you by learning through books and posting/reading here. Watch those LBs...they can be hard to control but in the end a necessary part of Plan A and recovery

I am sending you support and may God watch over you on this journey. ss

Raro, I am also sorry you are going through this. Wife asked me to leave 12 months ago. Left 4 months ago.

What are your LB's?

What are you doing to eliminate each one?

Angry outbursts and defensive reactions can be especially difficult to control. Have you identified specific trigger words to remind yourself of how you want to react? You can practice (mentally) your reactions by imagining the various types of 'bad' conversations you are likely to get into.

Regarding being defensive...I'd recommend a couple of books
a) Non Violent Communication
b) People Skills
c) Crucial Confrontations and Crucial Conversations

These books will build your skill set in having very difficult conversations with your wife and keeping your emotions in check, and your thoughts focused on what you want out of the conversation.

They will also help you 'ask for what you want' as well as give you a very distinctive sentence pattern for communicating her LB's (when the time is appropriate).

Re: angry outbursts. I've had a total of 3 angry outbursts where I have punched walls in the 12 years I have been with my wife. Those 3 events were scary enough for her that she has said to me and others that she is afraid of me and what I might do. I personally think there is a big difference between hitting a wall and hitting here; but here's the important point...SHE DOESN'T. I created an environment where she was afraid to get me angry. Thus, she stopped bringing up topics that might be contentious because I might get angry, and she started to bury that hurt and resentment built and built until there was a volcanic explosion. We need to create a safe environment so that they can talk to us. The angry outbursts make it VERY UNSAFE. What will you do to FOREVER remove angry outbursts from your repertoire of reactions?

Start using this time to work on YOU. Typically, they don't drift away from us for no reason. We were there pushing them away the whole time.

Good Luck

Great advise HH, I never thought about that. When I first found out about the EA I went nuts. I called her a slut and a whole lot more, as well as punching a few holes in our house. After reading through the posts and reading a few books I realized I was pushing her further away. But I never thought about how it would keep her from telling me about sensitive subjects.

I guess since then my problem has been my needyness and me trying to convince her to feel a certain way. I put my anger in check so far...but it gets harder every day, especially since it became a PA. I have been calm when talking to her even when she tells me things that are hard to swallow.

I sent her a text message last night telling her Good Night and that I love her. She told me that she loves me as well.

She called me this morning just to talk about her work and other news. I then asked her when she was leaving for San Diego (OM will be there too for a trade show). WW said she will be leaving tonight. I asked her if and when she will be seeing the OM. She then told me he probably wont have time to see her anyway and that she will have her friends with her to help keep her in check (It's supposed to some girls trip). I felt like handing out a few LB's but I kept my cool.

I know she is just telling me what I want to hear.

I asked her "what are we doing?"

WW "I don't know?"

BS "what do want to happen in the end?"

WW "to be with you"

BS "Don't you think going to see the OM wont help the future of our marriage?"

WW "well I'll have my friends with me, so nothing will happen"

I sooo want to believe that, but I don't want to get my hopes up. I just keep wondering what the heck ARE we doing? Is she working on herself and her issues? or Is she just getting this "I want to be single" phase out of her system so she can get on with our marriage? I'm getting all these mixed messages. I am trying to be patient but it is sooo hard. I guess like everyone else I'm dealing with an Alien.

Hey - I live 20 minutes from San Diego. Want me to go spy on them?

It seems to me that she is a perfect example of a cakewoman.
She gets to dangle you on a string and have a lover to have sex with. You are a safety net. If and when she gets tired of him or he drops her she knows that she can always come back to you. You are the second choice. The problem with this of course is that she is totally disrepecting and humiliating you and your marriage. Another problem is clearly she is not remorseful and continues to see him. When this affair ends there is simply no reason for her not to pick up another lover in the future for the thrill and excitement of it.

I doubt if the roles were reversed, your wife would be accepting of you continually screwing another woman and you telling her in the end I will come back to you. She is able to do these things to you because she knows you will accept it. How can she really respect a spouse who says I understand you are continually seeing and having physical relations with your lover but I will always be here for you to come back to when your affair burns out? This attitude enables the affair to continue because simply there is no consequences to her actions. Allowing her to dangle you like a puppet is counterproductive to you and her. Since down deep she has absolutely no fear of really losing you, there is no reason for her to stop being a cakewoman. She cannot respect you if you do not respect yourself. I wish you luck.

Wouldn't suggest that hole-punching the house. Some time you'll hit the 2x4 behind the wall rather than the empty space between 2x4s. Mucho pain, broken bones..not to mention it sabotages the demonstration.