That is so great you have his love letters as proof of his love sm, when my w/h gave me the I don't love you speech, I asked him what about all the cards he had given me over the years that declared his love, he then said, that was the way he hoped it could be. (snort.....) Geez.

I have packed them away in a special place.I don't think it is worth mentioning them right now, it will only make him madder.

I have to ride out this storm, and hope that it will be over soon.............

Saving,

Good plan on not bringing up those letters. My H tried to do that to me when I was in my "fog" and if my memory serves me correctly, I didn't react all that positively. I had written all of this stuff about how wonderful my H was on my online journal (because he really is the most wonderful human being on the face of this earth), but I didn't want to see it then.

I look back now on the stuff that I wrote and it makes me cry. I realize now what a wonderful man I had and how I never really let him know that. I took our M for granted. I know I can't ever do that again if I want our M to work. And I do want our M to work.

MY EMAIL TO MY H

Fred,
My words are not self serving.
My encouragement to you is sincere.
I wish I had done these things for you many years ago.
I can not change history.
I care about you as a person, and see many wonderful qualities that I took for granted and didn't take time to appreciate.
I know things right now are not as they seem.
You are depressed.
You are lonley.
You do not trust me to be your friend.
You consider me the enemy, but that is your perception.
I am extending my hand to you now as your friend.
When you are ready to begin to trust me again, it will still be there, waiting.
X

HIS REPLY
I don't think you are my enemy. I just think you are a very unsafe person. Someone who is unpredictable and unreasonable and motivated by unseen thoughts. I want you to be trustworthy, but I am not putting myself out again. I am sorry.

MY REPLY
My past track record would prove your words to be correct.
Like I said, I am not making promises anymore.
I know my drama and my inability to "be still" has left me with no credibility.
Perhaps in time you may one day change your mind.

At this point, you have clearly stated your stance, now give him his reflection time. He will put you off because that protects him in a sick non-productive way.

Please go and read His Needs/Her Needs....again. You will find that communicating with the male gender is very different. I believe your communication tactics have not been working is partially due to your skills have been to communicate with him as you expect t/b communicated with and visa versa for him. Therefore, you have both been missing each other's messages big time.

No more apologies for it will lessen the impact of the real issues. He needs to realize his part in your frustration as well. Stop making excuses for him and let him figure out that life requires chances be taken.

I think he is still babbling but he is also hurt. So are you. His hurt is not greater or less than yours. U R both hurting and must individually work on your own personal healing. I know this is hard t/d if you are a giver and want to fix it all. The fix it all is not within your control except for the parts that require fixing in you.

Do you understand my point?

L.

By George I think shes got it!!
I have been thinking this for ages.
We both seem to miss the point but are trying to say the same thing.
Can I ask you a question..........
Do you think he is waiting to see if my changes are sincere?
That is why he is not putting himselfout again?
Or do you really think he is done.

OK, I have only 4 days to get this thing right.........
It's the babble.
BUT not all of it is babble.
For example, I know he is hurting, he is depressed, that is real.
He feels very betrayed by me for the exposure, taking away his best friend, bla, bla, bla, that is real to him, even though I think it is the best thing I ever did to try and save my marriage.
So, when he calls me and says he is so lonley, and is crying,and I just don't understand what he is going through.
What am I supposed to say?
I tell him that I am sorry he is feeling this way.
I remind him of how much the kids and I are looking forward to his visit.
He was complaining that his brother has nothing in the house to eat, that they always eat fast food on the run.
I told him that the fridge is stocked up with all of his favorite foods, and we even picked up his favorite soda and ice cream.
Is there something else I should be saying?
There is a part of him that wants me to love him and make him feel better and there is a partof him that is hating me right now.
Yesterday that song "I'm already there" by Lonestar was on the radio and my D17 told him that it reminded her of him.
He started crying that he missed being home.

There is usually some mucked up truth between the babble. Still the babble muddles the truth.

I know you are itching to reply. You can in an indirect manner.

Whoever is communicating to you about the WS, let them know you miss your H but not the WS. If they ask if they can rely thet message, say yes. If they ask for clarification, say that's all you can say for now.

He needs to miss YOU and YOUR family NOT the food in the fridge. OK? Get the priorities straight. If it is just the food, he can go elsewhere. Then it is still babble and he is still being selfish. You dont' want a WS back, you want a caring H back. Know the difference. Same body, different scent. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

JMHO,
L.

Hey you know in the movies when someone hides in the closet and there is an earpiece with the other person telling them what to say..........Can you come over to my house for a couple of weeks??
I can get you your favorite ice cream too!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Very funny. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Seriously you need someone closer. Who are your immediate supporters?

L.

I really don't have anyone.
My family is in England, my sister in Colorado, my friends have pretty much told me I am a fool to try and save my marriage, and won't support me with this.They think I should file for a divorce and be done already.
The church, told me to just let him go.
My SIL was very supportive, but she just lost her brother last week, and I dare not go to her right now.
I have a therapist.

Well you still have the power or prayer and your children. Use them wisely.

Here's a hint, if he resorts to anger, pull back. If he gets mean, pull back.

Plan A your H and plan B the WS.

Don't keep the WS anger or guilt. When he says he wants to talk but talks with anger, let him go. He needs to keep his anger with him.

IMHO his depression c/become an excuse for him to unload his guilt on you. Talk to your therapist on the best way to handle this. Better yet, call Steve H @ MB.

L.

Getting it together over here, and am getting nervous about H visit home.
I do not know how long he plans on being here.
I made a list of goals for myself.
I refuse to be a whipping post or walk on eggshells around him.
This is my home, and he left.
I hope he isn't expecting to walk back into the house and take charge again. I have no problem with his input if he is respectful, but he made choices which included being away from his family to have his own life.
I have been praying alot!!
Have talked to the kids gently about H depression.
Told them that he is sad right now because he didn't find a job yet,and that he may have some jet lag for a few days, so if he is a little grumpy, not to take it personally.
I have not told my children about anyting, as they are too young to understand and there is no reason to upset them further.
The 2 older kids (17 & 18 know).
I am just hoping my MIL does not interfere, I am counting down the days until she goes home....11 more days!!!
She is such an enabler for my H and feels so sorry for him and makes excuses for his behavior.
Once she leaves, I think it will be better.
2 weeks ago H said that as soon as he gets here he wants to file for a D, I have already decided that I will not do this right now.
I know if he mentions it, I will have to be calm, but what do I say? Now that I know my rights, I do not want to sign anything especially when he is in this frame of mind.
I know right now he thinks he is in complete control of his life, but in reality he has never been more out of control.
The depression, the anger, etc only shows me that he is not thinking clearly.

I just finished reading co-dependent no more.
It scared me.
I really identified with some of the things in the book, and i feel so ashamed of myself.
These behaviors of mine, I didn't even know it.
Some of the issues I am working on, the anger, outbursts, reactionary stuff, all love busters.
I have to let go of the stuff, and I am scared i will fail.

Hi, saving.

Plan A advice.

-Be slow to anger.
-Demand respect by your actions.
-Accept no disrespect of either partner.
-Ignore the outbursts of a fool.
-Heed sincerity when it matches in word and action.

I am monitoring your postings, but my workload is heavy, so my responses will be short for a few days. You are doing fine.

God bless,
Gimble

Dear saving ~

I remember the first time I picked up Codependent No More. I saw the pages listing the characteristics of a codependent. I checked off probably 80% of them as applying to me. A few months ago, I went back and looked at the book, and had to laugh at my denial. About 99% of those items were applicable to me.

Awareness is the first step. You can't change what you don't acknowledge.

Now, I'm one stubborn hard-headed gal. So it took me quite some time to change. Maybe you can do it faster than I did, but regardless, changing take time, patience and practice. It is also really important that you have some one you trusts to help you sort things out ~ there were countless times that I had turned and twisted things around to be quite harmful to myself.

Your kids need you to learn these lessons...lest they go on to repeat your patterns in their own lives.

When your husband arrives ~ just be calm. Vent anger here. You will feel powerful emotions which you can not control, but you can be in charge of your behavior and how you choose to react to those feelings.

And be very careful about taking all the blame for your marriage. Saving ~ you may have done alot of ugly stuff (I sure did!), but there are 2 of you in the marriage and your husband is fully responsible for his own behavior. I sincerely doubt he sat around behaving like a saint while you raged and controlled.

Codependency is a dance of 2.

Yes, he sure did his share of stuff, but because I could never shut up and be still, the focus was all on me.
It still is.
I am always taking the blame for everything, but I don't want to do it anymore

TOTALLY FLOORED!!!!!!
H IS NOW LOOKING FOR WORK IN BOSTON, ONLY 1 HOUR AWAY!!

[color:"red"] [/color] MY MIL IS LEAVING IN 9 DAYS!!! [color:"red"] [/color]
HALLELUJAH!!!!!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

H just called again, changed his mind.....
up and down up and down up and down........
where this ride will stop nodbody will know!