No prob, Rook...I understand that emotions can really get boiling regarding A's...completely understandable!

I will say, however, that I'm not sure about Chat going to Plan B and actually having to kick her H out just yet...I hate to contradict more experienced posters, it's just that, as everyone does, I'm looking at this situation from the point of view of my own personal experience...again, sadly, I behaved like Mr. Chat toward my H and if he would have forced me out I don't believe that we would be where we are today...then again, my "piggish" behavior did NOT pre date my A, it was really due to fog and withdrawal...I guess what Chat does will have to depend on her own set of personal boundaries regarding how much she can take...

My own H is one who holds tightly to the philosophy of "act, don't react", so even though my behaviors were INCREDIBLY HURTFUL to him, he was still able to "deal" with them based on his own personal, very calm, seemingly unaffected demeanor...even still what a real WENCH I was!

Mrs. Wondering

I've been wondering (no pun intended- <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />) whether CHAT can recall the last time that they were happy. It could have been a long time ago.

I mean, somehow they were attracted to each other and fell in love with each other a long time ago...

Sometimes this time is forgotten after many years of unhappiness...

This is where they need to go to, at least, when/if there is RECOVERY...

I am concerned about pre affair behavior...AND more importantly chats tolerance of that treatment and what that does to one self esteem and ability to make healthy choices...

when all we have come to known is tolerating intolerable treatment....

it is difficult to even know there is a different way to live....

I'm not saying plan B today...but I am saying within the next 3-4 weeks..which is much shorter than Plan A is recomended...

ofcourse we can all monday morning quarterback what we would do...and this is all chats decision....

but it's hard to support returning to the pre affair marriage...as she states it existed..

ark

I agree with you ARK regarding CHAT'S need to change..

Her PLAN A should involve her calmly, yet firmly, making clear an expectation for her WH to respect her.

However, aren't many marriages awful for many years prior to the A?

I forget how long she has been married...

We had 10 great years and 10 awful years prior to my H's A...

controlling
abusive..
I hope not


nitpicky
mundane
disconnected
taking eachother for granted
lazy

yeah sometimes..

ARK

Chat you said:



I have questions:

How long have you been married?

Has he been cruel THROUGHOUT your marriage or only after you became OVERWEIGHT? (BTW, I am not at all excusing ANY CRUELTY. Just getting the info. here)

Really, he has NEVER taken you out?

You say you were "stuck at home". Does this mean that you did not work outside the home? For how long? If he was the primary breadwinner, then it may have been wise to cut corners.. Why call him "a cheap, you know what"?

He does say that he still "loves" you. That seems significant to me. A lot of WSes don't say that. Mine did not.

What does it mean that he went to bars for 3 years and when you were old enough you started having kids?

Ark you said:


It sounds to me that CHAT's WH may have some built-up resentment that he is expressing inappropriately. Although highly inappropriate, some of his hostility sounds explainable..

His pattern does sound familiar to my H's...

Unfortunately, lots of folks don't learn how to express anger in a healthy fashion...

Don't you think it's helpful to use our experiences to help others who may be facing similar challenges?

mimi..

I have no problem with others offering any opinion or thoughts or ideas...that's the whole meat and potato of these boards..
though I do believe it is our responsibility as guests here to follow the philosophy of the creator...

but there is tons of flexibility allowed within those guildelines...

it is my opinion regardless of chat's husbands reasons for any of his actions...that she can only control her/s..and that when something has gone on for so long and is really just continueing in the newest venue of an affair..
that she needs to be ready and prepared for strict boundaries with tangible actions that state clearly

NO MORE in my (HER) world...
period....

actions speak loudest.
and I bet she has attempted to communicate wanting things different for a long long time..
and the time is coming close at hand........
in my opinion for her to act..

I am not giving up on her marriage
or on him

but I am not holding out for much hope that he will suddenly stop his behavior...on his own..
and that chat needs actions to facilitate change

change within her..
and if he comes along..that's just icing on the cake...

ark

and mimi just because people don't learn to express anger in a healthy fashion...doesn't mean they don't already know that all along...

and continue to engage in abusive behaviors EVEN when knowing on certain levels it is not right...

people know what is right and wrong...unless they are psychopaths..they are the only ones who get a pass and should be kept from society....

ark

ARK:

I Sooo Agree with everything that you are saying..

It is SO RIGHT what you are saying...

However, this stuff with WSes is SOOO UGLY and NASTY and has not fit yet with my CONCEPTION of anything that I have seen or heard of during these 50 years of mine..

That's why you might find me being more tolerant...than one might expect....

If any one would have ever told me a few years ago that my H would have acted as CRAZY and UGLY and NASTY as he did during his A and then turn back into THIS WONDERFUL PERSON again I would have called that IMPOSSIBLE, MIRACULOUS, NOT OF THIS WORLD...He was incredibly awful and yes, downright ABUSIVE and CONTROLLING, come to think of it..I don't want to think of it anymore!!!

He certainly LOOKED AND ACTED LIKE A PSYCHOPATH..in reality, he was a WS....

I used to complain a lot to my grandmother about my M when she was between 80 and 90. To almost all my complaints, she would chuckle and foretell, "That's nothing..you will see a lot in your lifetime..in this world..." She was absolutely correct! I know I will see her again one day..I wonder if we will be able to have a conversation about all of this..in heaven, I'm imagining that it won't even matter... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

My WH always could be cruel but then I knew that was also in his makeup. However never so cruel that I could not still see he really loved me. It usually follwed with work stress and was concerning the house being clean. That was pre A. When his affair started the cruelity was directed at me personnaly. The cruelty hurt and continued to hurt for too long. I tried to stop it with quiet talks to no avail. If I had had a place to move I would have left and never turned back. When I finally found his e-mail account and told him to leave I was done. That he and she could be together that I did not want anything to do with him anymore. That is when the A ended and cruelty stopped. The problem Brandi with the cruelty is it stays with you. Do not let it last to long please. I did and I am still a wreck. My self worth is gone and rebuilding is hard. I have lost the self confidence in myself. When given a compliment I do not blieve the person or my H. I wonder what they want from me. I beg you to read some books on the abusive spouse and leave them around. Let him know you are learning. I to was overweight and lost a ton of weight and am now thin. One day when he was being cruel abusive regarding my looks - (he did not notice I had lost 70lbs and was a size 8) I asked him when he was going to loose his belly and grow some hair. But I was being cruel but it shut him up. I was not happy about myself. But it did make him stop.

As far as the sex with OW -do not think it is all peaches and cream. It is just new. Mine wanted me to shave my privates for him- I refused. You should have heard his comments for that. Now he says he never wanted that. After he found out the OW-2 was a run around type woman. He did not have SF with that one at that point thank god. Read and learn here. Lots of advice -not something you have to do. Does this OW have a H?? If yes you need to let him know about this A.

I promise to get back to all the questions - I am at work
right now -but will get back - thanks:o)

Chat