Asian the Lion......thank you for your insights...in order to answer some of you ?? I will have to post alot to explain where I am coming from.....if it gets to long I will split it in 2 parts....I'm not sure how much to divulge
but it appears I basically have to give the whole marriage history so all can see where I am coming from and why I am so confused and very hurt.

First I don't think I am bitter, especially about returning to work. i always thought i would go back to work when my kids were old enough and mostly on their own....so i have no negative feeling toward him about that...yes, he did give me a push....I was lacking confidence, but all has worked out well in this area....unless my working has changed our realtionship somewhat because it has meant less time for us, but he worked and played so much I didn't think it would matter. My job has alot of responsibility and maybe he wasn't counting on that, maybe he thought i wouldn't get so involved....I don't know. I can tell you that I am exhausted after a long day at work and then house work on top of that.
I am not saying I have no flaws.....but from my view the biggest flaw was sex being lower on my list and higher on his. He complained that I wasn't giving him enough affection, I didn;t hug him enough or kiss him enough....the key word is enough, because i didn't totally ignore him, but obviously he felt I was not doing enough. I have also always been a night owl, he a morning bird....so i guess that finally took it's toll.
Yes, I would be annoyed at times that he's nap in the evening on the couch, while I did chores....and then expect a wild roll in the hay when I went to bed. I can't speak for all women but foreplay IMHO starts way before you enter the bedroom......did I receive help around the house, did he make me feel like my feelings mattered....did he respect me.......very often I felt as if the answer to that was NO. I also felt, to this day, that he very often put his siblings before our rrelationship and I will admit that hurt me and made me angry.

I guess I need to give more background to what the years have been like which is why this may be loooong....

His mom is past now for 12 years, she had a tough life. Her first born child, a son, was born with downs syndrome/retardation in 1949-50. She in turn had a nervous breakdown, was in and out of mental hospitals, on meds, received shock treatments, plus she had epilepsy....so between meds for that and anti-depressants she was pretty much spaced out....even though she went on to have 4 more kids...H is the middle child....H dad passed away when H was 17......so I know his childhood was extremely difficult. The oldest brother I'll call J, has lived in group homes and still does to this day. However, he was allowed to come home most weekends and holiday's. The mom and J would often want to visit on the weekends which they did for many years....and I think at times it was very difficult to deal with as both were taking some heavy duty meds and really had to be watched like children. But I did it and dealt with it because it was the right thing to do. One of H's brothers would share in this responsilbilty. His mom passed in '93.....so the older brother had to be taken care of by the siblings. But it has only been H & I and one other brother...one brother, 47 yrs old now and sister, 43, now have never, ever shared in this responsibilty which has made me mad....and H would never ask them, even when I would plead with him....so J would be here for 3-4 holidays a year for 26 years not to mention various Saturday's or Sunday's. It may not seem like much to all reading, but do the math. I was only asking for his siblings to do their share. J takes many meds, which we would be responsible to give him at various times, is diabetic so he had to watched very carefully to make sure he didn;t have anything with sugar. J would also call my home every Sat. and/or Sun and 99.9% of the time H was not home, he would then call over and over, sometimes 15 times in 2 hours and would continue to do so until H was finally home. H's younger siblings didn't have to deal with this because they wouldn't let him have their phone #. J was also caught at his group home sexually molesting another resident and this made me very uncomfortable....I do have a daughter and she was a little girl at the time....not to mention I am a survivor of such abuse as a child. It seemed as if my feelings didn't matt to H. So after years of this, how worn down should I be? how hurt....how angry.

The last few holiday's of J visiting meant having to clean my bathroom after he finished using it...kind of stressful when other guests are here too.....especially when you're trying to cook a holiday dinner. Was I foolish to expect his siblings to help in her and J's care? Was that too much to ask? And even if they didn't help I just wanted H to ask them ( I would have liked him to demand that they get involved my his wife's sanity), I just wanted my feelings to be understood and validated.

I think H has alot of issues growing up the way he did and dealing with his family, but I can't fix it all for him....I don't want to be the mother he never had, I wanted to be his wife, friend, etc. I wanted him to put me first sometimes. I was always here doing the wife duties, maybe i wasn't fulfilling all his emotional needs....duh? Obviously not if he left. that duh was for me!

My family....I don't have much.....no siblings,never met dad, just my mom and her X-H, they have been separated 15 yrs but have a cordial realtionship as I do with him. Of course aunts, uncles and cousins. My mom was never the "I want to come over now" type. usually only came over when invited or of course to babysit...she wasn't a meddler.

From my other posts you can read how I pretty much gave H all the freedom to come and go. I'd see him leave to go help a friend plant shrubs when our yard needed much work.
What are his good points? well off the top of my head...he is always willing to help others, is good to his kids, works damn hard.

Ok this post is long......sorry...so i will close for now as the dog needs a walk and I need to attempt sleep, which has not come easily since 7/4/05.

But before I go, even if I try to change, he won't be here to see it. He does not want to come back, he has made that clear.....I see him for briefly during the week, mostly only minutes, he doesn't want to talk. I can't beat a dead dog. Just an FYI.....he had to go talk with my son's shrink a few weeks ago,(after he left me) and the Dr. told him that he has a problem communicating.....he told DD this.
This is why I am so blown away that he left as he did. He never told me he was unhappy....he only said that I didn't show him enough affection....many times I think he wants me to heal his "mother wound".

To all who are wondering about the wedding we went to....things went fine, my family treated him a always with kindness, H acted a bit weird though, under the circumstances i guess it is not a shock.

Asian...you may be right, perhaps he is not the man for me.
Trying to start over again at this stage of my life is not something I thought I would have to do....but you did make a good point......food for thought.

Have a great Friday all...........

I just wanted to thank everyone that offered their thoughts.

I have been working some O/T at the office which is why i haven't posted. I am also taking this time to absorb all advice.
Thanks again

You should be able to check out the cell phone bell, either from the company or from an on-line service. That is where an affair usually shows up - when the BS sees 500-600 minutes of talking a month to the same unknown number.

I would do some more checking - I think there is an affair going on.

First, hugs to you for all you are going through. Change is never easy is it? Sometimes though when we get past the change we see clearly that it was good. I would imagine that is where you will be viewing it from a few years from now.

I would not be surprised if you H has found someone that does give him "enough" affection, hugs, sex...all without him having to do the things you stated. There are certainly a lot of women out there more than willing to do just that. Take time to truly examine yourself and what you want out of the rest of your life. If it is this man in it, you are going to have to radically change, not only your thinking, but actions.

Hope you are doing better today.

Have you read Frank Pittman's book, "Private Lies?" One of the things he says in the book is that men do not leave their wives because the wives do not understand them, but rather because they understand them too well.

I think that there it is quite likely that your husband is suffering from depression, especially given his family history. I don't think you should worry too much about what he says now is his problem with the marriage - they have to come up with something to justify leaving the marriage. I am sure there are numerous complaints he might have about you, and vice versa - but probably every one of them hasn't changed in the last decade. The only difference is that a decade ago a) he wasn't suffering from depression, at least as severely, and b) there was no other woman. These factors results in the WS turning minor issues, or even things that were not issues at all, into major problems with the marriage.

I am going to try to check the cell phone. I haven't had much conversation with him in the last 3 weeks....he may come in to pick up some clothes and then he leaves with out a word. his behavior is kind of bizarre.
Thanks for the tip.

I've never heard of that book but I will certainly look for it. You're right, I can't change what is in his head and he could very well be suffering from depression, but he would never accept that if it was told to him. He barely even speaks to me now for the brief moments I see him (he stops by every couple of days, he takes the dog to his office sometimes). And if I do dare to question him about his whereabouts he seems pretty defensive and then he hides for a few days.
I'm just trying to get through one day at a time, for now everyday is still a roller coater of emotions. Sometimes the whole thing seems surreal.
Thanks for your input.

Thank you for the hugs...I could use them!

I have been trying to rxamine what I want for my life....it's hard to do when you are still so shcked by the whole thing. At the moment I think if this marriage were to work out, WE would both need to make changes, but he is apparently not willing to make any changes or doesn't think he needs to. In this case it will never work out....that I'm pretty sure of.

IWA,
While it is true that both people have to make changes, and in relatively short order, one person has to start. Often that first person makes changes for what seems like an endless time without seeing an improvement. Then, the other spouse suddenly gets it, or it becomes obvious that the change isn't going to work.

At this point, I haven't heard that you are doing a Plan A. Plan A is about two things. The first is demonstrating that you are capable of making changes to your behavior. The second is laying a groundwork of good memories and feelings. My guess is you haven't been very effective at that since your H is pulling further and further away from you. Even in MLC and affair situations, spouses tend to hoover around, milking Plan A, which is just according to plan!

See, right now, your husband does not want to be married. So far in your posts, I can't really tell if you do or don't want to be married to him. But, let's assume you do. So, he doesn't want to be married to you. You demand he changes, he doesn't feel like it, so he says no. After all, what's the worst you can do to him? Divorce him? You need bait. Really good bait to entice him to change. Plan A is the bait. You give him a taste. You tell him there's lots more where that came from if he'll only just try counseling. You should him why life with you will be better than being divorced.

If you aren't willing to do that, I doubt he'll be willing to change.

As to everyone who is just assuming the man is having an affair, does it really matter at this point? Either he's having an affair, or he's extremely withdrawn. In either case, the first step is Plan A. At this point, trying to nail down is he or isnt' he is a waste of Walking's emotional energy.

Yes, it does matter a great deal. Not only has iwalkalone said that an affair would be a deal breaker, but when your husband is having an undisclosed affair, you often feel like you are going crazy, or living in an alternate universe. The rewriting of history, the inexplicable anger from the WS, the twisting of everything you say, can make you feel like you are losing your mind. Once the affair is confirmed, horrible as it is, at least the things that have been happening begin to make sense.

greengables......

Correct me if I am wrong but WS needs to be around for more than a few mintues a week to see plan A (although they don't know what that is) in process, WS doesn not spend much time if any back at our house. I think I have been trying plan A with the exception of laying down groudwork of family memories....I don't want him to come back because of guilt.....I don't think that would work. Yes, I do want to save this marriage, but in the long run I can not be the only one willing to change. A few weeks after he left and we finally had a chance to talk, I told him I didn't realize
how miserable he was and I admitted that I hadn't been too happy either. I told him we both needed to focus on "us" as problems with my son had really taken a toll on out marriage, we put it on the back burner for a few years, I realized this, I admitted this.....without yelling,demanding or trying to force the issue. I got nowhere.
The way he is acting now is still keeping me in an emotional state of nowhere land. he comes by a few times a week to take out dog to his office for the day...he'll do this while I am in the shower or getting ready for work. Sometimes he won't even speak to me, he'll leave me a note saying he took the dog. Often when I get home from work the dog is back home and WS is not around. I don't have many reasons to call him and chat nicely, he doesn't appear to want to discuss anything about anything. If and when I do see him, I am nice to a fault.....I actually have friends asking me why I am being so nice to him!

The week before last he was here for about 30 minutes....I offered him dinner that I had in the fridge, first he said no, and then he changed his mind. It has been rainy in the North East, and I asked what it is like on the boat trying to sleep. He said it was noisy at times with the rain and the waves....I told him he could always come home to even if it's for sleeping purposes (we have a spare bedroom), but he didn't seem interested.

I still don't know for sure if he's having an affair, I have asked him twice and he denies it.....but I am still not really convinced.
And yes it does matter if he is having an affair because this would be the marriage buster for me....at this point I don't think it is something I could work through and forgive. This is why I need the truth.

thanks for your input.

Nellie......

thank you.......yes it does matter and your statement of living in an alternate universe is correct....that's what it feels like. I just want to get to the truth of all of this. You know if one of my friends were telling me the things i have mentioned to them....I would say "what are you kidding me, it appears their is an affair going on"! And yes, I do feel like I am losing my mind.....I am having a very tough time trying to concentrate at work and I can't financially afford to screw up at the job. I've been sleeping about 4-5 hours a night, doesn't make a productive person during the day.
Since he told me he doesn't want to come back, we haven't dicussed anything else. He acts like we're already divorced, emotionally I guess we are.

Dear I Walk Alone,

I was enchanted with your choice of a Handle. Sorry you are having a rough time. I will try to read more of your thread, to see if Ideas come up for you.

Your last post mentioned the chance of an affair. Here is a link to simple ways of checking on affairs,

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubb...25687&an=0&page=0#325687


Sending comforting thought-forms