I do suspect this is true and have wondered many times myself the very same thing. However, FL's needs are real and yes I do believe she needs to identify them and where they come from. But what if he cannot/will not meet those needs? This seems to be a question for many people...do you stay married and honor your vows even when your spouse does not meet your needs. (FL, check out t&L's sit with her H)or do you D once the kids are grown and seek out an R that is right for you?

FF,

Supposing your comments are correct. Then it comes down to the old Ann Landers statement "Are you better off with him or are you better off without him?" FL's needs are truely her needs but only she can assess how many, which ones, and when they MUST be met for her to continue in this marriage.

There are no perfect marriages but some come closer than others. How close can her's come? I don't know. Only the two of them can make that decision. But, ultimately it is about worth. What is the marriage worth to either of them.

Those two have come through a lot. I frankly don't understand some of his reactions and decisions. But, I don't understand some of FL's either. My inclination is to think that some of his standoffishness (nice word right <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />) is due to the damage of the affairs through a fair part of their marriage.

But, then when FL talks about him, I worry that I am falling into the trap of ascribing all of his behavior to the A's and not to how he truely is. It is hard to determine these things, but as she writes I sense that he has always avoided deep intimacy. So the A just provided more reasons for him to do what he may have already been doing. Would FL have behaved differently if he had? No doubt. Would she still have made some of her decisions? Probably.

So ultimately in my mind it comes down to the Ann Landers comment and the individual sense of commitment.

I will tell you that having posted to FL for a long time I truely hope that she and her H find happiness.

God Bless,

JL

JL, thank you for your thoughtful answer. I too am extremely fond of FL and want for her M to be satisfying to both of them. It is very difficult for a woman to live with an emotionally distant H. Mine is/was and though no excuse for my actions, that is what led me to being vulnerable to an A. Since my A I have found ways to fill most of my needs in other forms. I have found ways love my WH (despite his A's and our pending D)for who he is instead of who I want him to be. Much like FL's H I stupidly entered my M knowing I liked my H, seeing potential and thinking he could change. I do think though that she has an obligation to her children to stay M'd at least until they are in college. Her M is not abusive, it just doesn't fill her needs.

Hoping I am making sense as I feel such an intense sadness for FL.

who is t&l?

ok, so here are a few concrete needs.

1. i need to be connected spiritually which for me could mean going to church together 3 out of 4 weeks every month and holding hands during the service. or it could mean reading a book together and discussing it. i am sure it could be fulfilled in other ways but those are two ways i envision them being met.

2. I need our communication about what ever topic to be on a friendlier basis. He is very short with me and in my opinion to the point of being rude. we don't seem to ever talk about things much because in his mind it is clear cut and nothing to discuss.

3. I would like his undivided attention more often. he continues to play backgammon on a fairly reg basis. it is rare he turns me down (i try not to ask too often) and when he does, he makes a point of saying when would be a good time. on rare occasion (rare but it does happen), he asks me

yes, and i should have realized this before i married him. we dated for 4 years, although the entire time i was in college. on the weekends, when i went to see him, we spent the entire weekends together. i was very busy during the weeks with school and multiple jobs (i put myself thur school).

regarding Ann Landers statement
listen, divorce is not something i will allow myself to consider anymore. i really am in this for the long haul now, no matter what. divorce has become 100% out of the equation. till death due us part, he has definitely taught me that.

FL,

Ok, divorce is out. That is good. However that leads to the obvious question "What are you going to do if nothing changes?" If the answer is endure, that is fine...endure.

FL, I think he is still very hurt about the new disclosures. I think he does not know how to handle these things. He clearly is passive agressive in some of his responses. So what to do? Let's brainstorm. I have a thread going with Myrta about LEADING in her marriage and I wonder if that is what he needs from you.

He may need you to lead him. Now I am not talking about barking orders or issues ultimatums. I am talking about the kind of leading that establishes common goals, uses the strengths and weaknesses of the person you want to lead, and gently pulls, pushes, and walks beside them as necessary. Leadership is an art and one that is not very well understood in our country. THe military understands it, even the Boy Scouts do, but most companies talk about MANAGEMENT.

My opinion you manage resources, you lead people. No doubt there is an element of management in your marriage as all marriages but I wonder if you have considered being the leader. I am guessing he would like to be the leader if he was not so darned afraid of things. He was for awhile.

Just some thoughts to seed your thoughts. Please think about this. I am guessing that although a lot of your needs are not being met, they would NOT bother you so much if HE was happy but he is not. So perhaps you need him toward that rather than toward meeting your needs at least in the short term.

Just some ideas to start the discussion.

God Bless,

JL

{{{FL}}}

boy did you ever hit the nail on the head with that one JL. i so very much need him to be happy. is that a valid need?

but then, who am i kidding, as much as your quote really does touch my heart, if that was all i needed, i would only need to let my giver be in control and problem solved.

so yes, i do need him to be happy, but that is not the only need that is wanting to be filled. i want some things for me too.

which tells me, once again, i am losing my patience and i need to cut that out. enjoy the things we do do together and stop fretting about those needs that are not being met.

it sounds so simple on paper. why can't i be strong enough to just keep at it?

thanks for the hugs dorry.

i will look at the thread you mentioned about leading too.

FL,

If him being happy will help you, I suspect it will help him. If you can learn to lead him to that, then you will know how to lead him to meeting some of your needs. You will have to evaluate how much he is truely capable of, but leading is not just about putting the "giver" out there and tying up the "taker". It is about using both very effectively.

You may not understand this but you just illustrated that often the "taker" is happy when the "giver" has done its job. So you have to create situations where your H can give to you or he will NOT be happy in the long run. I suspect part of his problem is that he does NOT think he can truely make you happy, hence he backs off from the potential of failing.

FL, the two great motivators in life are "FEAR and GREED" a good leader understand what everyone including themselves fear and what they WANT to accomplish or have in their lives. Start to study these two things in yourself and your H.

Must go.

God Bless,

JL

FL, t&l is thunder & lightening, Neak's mom. She has a thread that Pep started for her. Very interesting relationship her and her H have.

Ok, I like JL's ideas and I am glad D is out. I too believe in 'til death or in my case never ending infidelity do we part. (not a slam against you, you know that right?)

Ok, have you read the Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands? If not, go ahead and see what you think. I would also recommend that for the moment you do what bob recommended and find your joy in filling your H's needs and bringing joy into your home. That includes your kids. I agree that your H is probably still healing from last year. If you are in it for the long haul then you need to find some patience and other ways to fill some of those needs.

Can you bible study with a friend? Or get your H to read just 15 minutes a night with you? Ask him to attend church with you more often and then YOU reach over and take his hand.

I don't know if this helps, but I am praying for you.

thanks jl. lots to think about.

i will do my best to be happy and enthusiastic this weekend.

i do agree, i think that helps.

(i've been reading your posts in other threads:

and the ironic thing is. at work, and at home with just the kids, or with friends that is me to a T.

but around H, more and more, i just can't.

1. even before he knew of As, i used to feel like my "high spiritedness", "silliness" or however you call it used to just annoy him to no end.

2. since confessing, his pain makes it so hard to feel happy around him at all.

thanks FF. yes all of that helps.

like everyone says. recovery is not for sissy's

When I first came to this site, a wise poster (JL) often suggested that time, and patience were the key to marriage restoration. I have watched, and it looks to me like he is right. Where the marriage can be restored, it takes time (two to three years in many cases) and patience because there are cycles to this, and that means times when things are not working well.

If you are in this for the long haul, I think you can make it work.

Keep talking about it, and trying new things. Prayer works for me also.

How are you doing today? Any better?

SS

hi SS, it is actually the same day <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

but i am doing better than i was this morning. i woke up in tears this morning, i'm not really sure why, i was not having any bad dream like i do on some other nights. probably more the case of just too long of hours this week (fortunately the hard hours did prove to be worth it as far as the work problem went) and absolutely no connecting with H. i'll have to fix that tonight.