WasLost & NTL here...
I tried to look up your history,but didn't find one post with your story. Maybe if one is out there, you can just direct us to it instead of retyping the entirety.

Do you have children? How long did you date? What are your religious beliefs? When did the A start, with who, how long did it last, how did your H find out? What has happened in a nutshell since he found out, and what have you done?

NotTooLost

Wow, I have a post with my own name in it! Now I feel special <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I have probably a billion and a half posts out there, and my story is definitely there if you search back far enough. But I will do my best to recreate the story for you here. First I will answer your questions:
No children.
We dated for 4 years before we got married.
I am Christian and regularly attend a non-denominational church. I have a strong faith in God (which I am trying to lean on right now, but admittedly, it is hard).
The A started last summer. It was with a guy I went to high school with. I went back to my hometown to visit friends and saw him, and that was when things started. The A lasted for six months, and I saw him three times during that.
My H found out when he found a card that OM had given me.

That is the easy part to happen. Trying to explain what has happened since then is where it requires a lot of detail. When my H first found out, I was very much following the WS script (didn't know it at the time, but now I see what my actions were). I was angry with my H for exposing the A. I "wanted space" ... really so I could call OM. That didn't last too long though and I eventually went back to my H. We went to MC for 9 months. The first few months seemed to go really well, but then things kind of were at a standstill, and it was around the 8th month that it felt like things were backsliding. I started thinking about OM and became confused again about what I wanted. I shared that with my H -- told him I didn't know if I could see having a family with him. He told me then that he had been thinking about D for about a month and even talked to our MC about it. In shock, I agreed that D must be the right thing for us. The next day, I came to my senses, but my H was already pretty sure it was right. So I made the worst possible choice ever. I called OM. (This started this May). After about a month and a half of my H telling me that he could never be 100% in the M, he finally started working on things a little. And then he saw the cell phone bill and saw that I had been calling OM. He said that was it. He had reached his limits and he wanted out.
After this, I read Surviving and Affair (I had read His Needs, Her Needs and Love Busters just before that happened). I started to understand myself a lot better, and what happened in the A. I understood the importance of NC and even wrote a letter for my H to review before I sent it off. I have spoken with Jennifer Chalmers from MB and have another appointment this Sunday night. I am avoiding LB at all costs and trying to meet my H's EN ... almost like a plan A for WS.

Not much of a nutshell. Looking forward to your response.

Bumping it up so NotTooLost and WasLost71 don't forget about me!

Cinny, we didn't forget about you....just got all caught up w/ BBQdad this morning!

I'm delighted that you are talking to Jennifer Chalmers. She's our counselor too. She's awesome.

As to what can you do now? That depends, all this may just take time. I don't mean to be discouraging, but I know that you know it's reality. After only 2 years M, with no children, your H might just decide to cut his losses. No one here would blame him.

What hope to you have? To change yourself, know yourself, reveal your new self to him. It might work, it might not. It's the only chance you have with him though. Does he read here? He should, it would give him hope of the changes that you SAY you have made, that he can see WHAT you are learning, and he could read your recent posts and see that you really are starting to GET IT.

Write down all the reasons that you want to stay married to him that DO NOT have to do with fear of being alone. Why are you a good couple? What faith do you share? How can he meet your needs and you meet his? Why should he want to give this another try?

One other thing that I decided after being cheated on and going through this process... I want to protect myself and my heart. I want to trust the person I'm married to. I want to be safe. Am I safer with my current H who now knows his weaknesses and is willing to draw boundaries with other women as friends, at church and at work so that he will not be tempted to hurt me again, or would I be safer in a new relationship with someone who coos, "I would NEVER do that to you honey."

Once I read "Surviving an Affair" I realized this can happen to ANYONE (an A) and boundaries are so important. I like being married to someone who KNOWS that from painful experience and guards them ferociously.

Has your H counseled w/ Dr. Chalmers? Would he be possibly possibly be willing to just talk to her tonight with you (separately, on the phone?) Has HE read Surviving an A?


Looking forward to your response.

NotTooLost,

I like your idea of making a list of why I want to be married to my H. I am good with writing, so I think that would be a good exercise for me (I have already created a list of 100 things I love about my H, and 10 reasons my H is better than OM).

I don't know how much my H has read of SAA. I think because the words "God" or "Christian" don't appear in the book, he feels like it isn't Christian counsel and he shouldn't listen to it. I could be wrong in my assessment, but that was they way his words came across to me.

He sometimes comes to the boards to read, and has made three posts quite some time ago. But he tells me that he gets a headache everytime he thinks about posting and trying to explain hinself.

I have only counseled with Jennifer Chalmers once, but that one hour was more productive for me than most of the MC my H and I went to. I have let my H know about my session tonight and I have encouraged him to come. He seems to think that nothing good could come from it. And while maybe he is right, my thought is that he isn't losing anything for trying except an hour of his time.

I have been quite wrapped up in BBQ myself! I see him making a lot of the same mistakes I did and I am trying to use the wisdom I have gained from my mistakes to help him out.

Looking forward to your response!

I read Dr Harley's books [including 'Surviving An Affair which he co-wrote with his daughter, Dr Jennifer Harley Chalmers PhD] after my divorce from my XWW [first W] and before meeting my present W and I can tell you that they helped tremendously after I met her. Your H would be wise to avail himself of the knowledge and insights of Dr Chalmers unless of course he plans to never again marry or become involved with another woman. It can also be argued that his personal recovery may be significantly helped by consulting with Dr Chalmers. I hope that he realizes this and changes his mind.

TMCM

Good point coffee man. But he doesn't seem to be in that frame of mind.

You know, from what I can tell this board and the Harleys want to make help available to everyone, not just Christians. Putting it forward as a Christian site would feel exclusionary to those who are not.

HOWEVER, if you H is a Christian, he should know that so is your counselor. SAA is principles that agree with all aspects of Christianity.

I hope your H doesn't feel exhausted from trying to explain himself here! He doesn't have any 'splainin to do!

Are you separated?

Really encourage him to talk to Dr. Chalmers tonight... just maybe put it to him the way WasLost71 put it to me after I filed for divorce - someone at MB told him:

You just have a little while longer to work on your marriage, you have your whole life to be divorced. Just talk to her, you don't have to do anything you don't want to do.

Good luck!

He called and told me that he would listen to the conversation with Jennifer, but he doesn't want talk. He says he can't do this anymore. He can't put forth any more effort.

And yes, we are separated.

My H seems to think that he reached his breaking point. He says that everyone on this board is not us. I know you guys aren't us. I know most of the people here had their A's happen later in the M, and yes, I started mine 6 months after we got married. I will admit that there are still some things about my poor choices that I have yet to understand, but I am trying to understand that. And yes, during our first several months of counseling, I was often stubborn and didn't put forth as much effort as he did. I also don't know why I did that ... another thing I am trying to understand.

This was just me venting. I just got off the phone with my H and it left me in tears, so I needed someplace to go to safely vent my frustrations.

Chin up, cinnymd. He's tired. I understand that. Be patient.

Hey, he's agreed to listen to your conversation tonight with Jennifer. That is FABULOUS NEWS and it means that at least on some basic level he is willing to at least THINK about whether this is all as final as divorce.

As I said before, you have this little bit of time to save your marriage. You have your whole life to be divorced.

Be encouraged.
For your H,
James 5:19-20
My dear brothers and sisters, if anyone among you wanders away from the truth and is brought back again, you can be sure that the one who brings that person back will save that sinner from death and bring about the forgiveness of many sins.

NotTooLost,

Well, I thought our time with Jennifer went well...or rather my time with Jennifer with H as a "fly on the wall." She asked him to set up an appointment for next week to talk to her, and he agreed, though he knows he can cancel at anytime.

Our session was mostly Jennifer discussing the MB process which wasn't necessarily anything new for my H, because he said he has read the books. But none of the ideas in the book were ever put in place, and that is where I think we fell short. We went to MC and talked about the past and talked about our feelings, but we never really had any sort of plan in place of what we could do to recover our M. Maybe just sitting and talking could have worked for my H because he is a big picture kind of guy. But I am the kind of person that needs to see all the little steps that make up the big picture.

So I am having faith in God that my H will at least have faith in the process, even if he doesn't have any faith in me right now.

Oh, he's going to have his own appt. with Jennifer. That is wonderful wonderful wonderful!

You just keep working on the things YOU can do to make the relationship better in the LONG RUN. Give him something to look forward to if he gives you another chance!

cinnymd,

A few years back there was a woman, a FWW, whose BH divorce her because of her 2 year affair. She came to MB with the handle 'Hopeful_Person' seeking help to reconcile with her XH. A little over a year ago, she and her XH remarried. I'm not telling you this to give you false hope but to make you aware that one of the things that helped her win her H back was to include him in any activities that would help create new and happier memories WITH NO STRINGS ATTACHED. You may want to consider following her example by approaching your H and inviting him to go out to a restaurant, go to a movie, go to church not as your H but as your best friend. Show him that you CAN be his best friend FIRST and you may be able to help him open his heart to you once more.

TMCM

Well, I apparently posted too soon. About an hour after we got off the phone with Jennifer, my H called me and told me that he had felt pressured into making the appointment (Jennifer said she knew she was being pushy but that she thought it was good) and now he wasn't sure if it was the right thing. I tried to point out that Jennifer said it was good education regardless of what he decides. His initial response was that wasn't why I wanted him to talk to her. I was honest with him and told him, ideally, no, that wasn't what I wanted. He then told me that nothing she could say wasn't something that he could read in his book and he learns better on his own.

How do I respond to that?

You know, I really honestly think that if my H would at least open up to some dialogue here, it could help. There are so many wise people who can offer a lot of helpul tips and advice. I can e-mail him what people tell me all I want, but he doesn't want to hear any of this from me.

Cinny, i'd be miffed about being pushed into MC too.

Why is your H divorcing you Cinny ? For your affair ? For the way you managed the first year of recovery ? Both, or something else entirely like his pride and self respect primarity ?

Getting H to talk to folks on here, Jennifer Chalmers or ANYBODY won't change his reason if it is sound.

Cinny, I thk you have to realise that yout H is righteous in divorcing you. You had an affair, you did not take recovery seriously in the first year of your marriage. God allows him to.

In order to change his mind about divorce IMO, you need to convince him that you have addressed his core reasons for divorcing you.

This s not about words, and books, and Mrs Chalmers, and your H being convinced he he folloing the wrong path IMO.

It's about you effectively "Plan A-ing" to be all you can be as a wife over time. You cannot look at the dovorce as a ticking clock, else you will be provoked into forceful behaviours like the Chalmers invite.

As a BS, we do not say in plan A " Look WS at teh wonderful spouse I havebecome ! See how I meet your ENs! how can you possibly still se OP?".

Instead we lock up our taker, and dedicate ourselves to demonstrating through consistent and persistent ACTION that we have changed ourseves. WS only have peripheral vision durng an affair , Cinny. They look through a filte rof justification that prevents them from seeing directly het plan A changes and the spouse as they really are.

I suspect when your BH look sat your NEW actions, he reminds himself " yes, but she was eager to reconcile once before, and she made a mug of you. Be suspicious" just like a WS does.

Only your persistent actions can sneak around that filter to his heart.

I think it is a mistake to pressure your H, however desperate you are. It would only make ME more staunch.

All blessings to you both. Its a horrible mess you find yourseves in.

Bob,

I did not pressure my H into the MC with Jennifer. I asked him if he would join in on my session last night and let him know how much it would mean to me. And he agreed. I did not pressure him to make the other appointment. That was Jennifer. And when he told me wasn't sure, I didn't tell him he had to keep the appointment. I listend to what he had to say.

Cinny, I never inferred you did it. Pressure is pressure, well meaning or not, Jennifer, you or me as the source.
I'm sure your H wil do what he thinks is right.

All blessings.

I am sure my H will do what he thinks is right. But one question that God has really laid on my heart the past month ... just because you have the right to do something, does that make it the right thing to do?

just because you have the right to do something, does that make it the right thing to do?

No it doesn't. No more than reconciling is the right thing to do, just because your H has the right to do that, too.

The'right thing' to do is what your H finds gives him most peace in prayer in his heart. He will work out what that is.

Your H has been devastated by you affair then his attempt at forgiveness and reconciliation were thrown back in his face Cinny. He has only your peviously uneliable words that it will be different this time.

I personally think Your H is amenable to consider reconciliation, why else would he attend MC for example?

But I will not slate the man if he proceeds with his divorce.

All blessings