H's response:

I will talk to Jennifer about it, but I am telling you that this is what I am willing to do right now, honestly whether she thinks it is a good idea or not. I was and am being honest, and I’m not trying to be stubborn, but I’m not in any way ready to be even close to “attached at the hip.” I will take steps and see if reconciliation is a possibility – that is what my e-mail was about. As of now, as you know, nothing in the process that has been started has changed. I just wanted to recognize and explore some feelings to the contrary that I am having. Not to be harsh, but this is not any sort of complete turnaround on my part. Nothing in my offer is negotiable, whether or not it completely jibes with Marriage Builders.

Just wanted to make sure that I am clear on where I am.

Talk to you soon.

Well Pepper, even though I didn't try to come across as pushy, I guess I did. He told me he felt frustrated that as soon as he offered a little, I was pushing him for more.

So I told him thank you for letting me know that and I am sorry that I came across that way. I will be more careful in the future of how I respond.

He seems interested in the MB weekend, although the cost of the weekend is quite the deterrent.

cinnymd - the MB weekend thing, imho, is a terrible idea at this point. There is NO commitment from your husband other than a begrudging, "ya, I'll try...but." There is the added burden of a substantial monetary outlay. And there are other reasons, not the least of which is your "grasping at straws." For whatever reason, you stopped all email communication with me and I have respected your choice and stayed "out of it."

However, you wrote something that has prompted me to offer a response that neither you nor your husband is likely to "like," but if the two of you are going to be grounded in Christ and surrendered to Him, I felt it was necessary to offer this observation.

Your husband is acting like a "babe" and not a "married Man." God did NOT create him that way, he is choosing to behave that way. Understand, cinnymd, that I KNOW he is the BS and I KNOW the thoughts and feelings that are running through his head because I have lived them myself.

God DOES NOT say, "Trust me, because I guarantee you a trouble free, pain free, no problems, life in the future (at least not until we get to heaven)." What God is saying is, "Trust me because ... we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.
What, then shall we say in respose to this? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all - how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died - more than that, who was raised to life - is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? As it is written: "For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered." No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any poweres , neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord." (Romans 8:28-39 NIV)



LEAVE and CLEAVE. Your husband has NOT faced, nor addressed, GOD's commandto him. He continues to this day to put his "family" (which should be YOU after he marries) ahead of you and the marriage.

[color:"red"]"Haven't you read,"[/color] he replied, [color:"red"] "that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,' and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh'? So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate."[/color] (Matthew 19:4-6 NIV emphasis added)

I am NOT talking about NOT "respecting and honoring" parents. I am talking about obedience to ALL of God's commands, not just the one's we "like" or "feel comfortable with."

Your husband is STILL wrapped up in what everyone EXCEPT Jesus might "think" about your marriage. Your husband is STILL wrapped up in distrust and disbelief of GOD's promises because he has NOT surrendered his will (and all of it's fears) to GOD. He has "accepted" God's forgiveness before all the angels and mankind for HIS heinous sins, TOTALLY UNDESERVING of God's forgiveness, and like the "unmerciful servant," your husband goes out from his own experience of TOTAL FORGIVENESS FOR HIS UNPAYABLE DEBT TO GOG and continues to withhold FULL forgiveness from you and seeks to hold you accountable, through divorce, for HIS inability to trust God and to take his strength FROM God and no one else. "I know what it is to be in need, and I know what it is to have plenty. I have learned the secret of being content in any and every situation, whether well fed or hungry, whether living in plenty or in want. I can do everything through him who gives me strength." (Philippians 4:12-13 NIV)

This is NO idle promise of God to those who have the indwelling Holy Spirit. This IS God's promise of walking WITH us through ALL of life's problems and challenges. Christians WILL come under attack, we WILL fall and sin when we "give into" our human nature, we ARE NOT perfect or glorified YET. The "war" rages on every day we are alive on this earth. We are COMMANDED to forgive a fellow believer "seventy times seven times" if necessary. We are told HOW to proceed with discipline (Matthew 18:1-20) with the OBJECTIVE of repentance, forgiveness, and RESTORATION of fellowship. It is SINNERS who need forgiveness EVERY TIME they sin. It is SINNERS who sit in the pews, the choir, and stand in the pulpits. It is the "forgiven in Christ" ....so that "behold, the old is gone, the new has come."

[color:"red"]"I have come to bring fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled! But I have a baptism to undergo, and how distressed I am until it is completed! Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two and two against three. They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law."[/color]

He said to the crowd: [color:"red"] "When you see a cloud rising in the west, immediately you say, 'It's going to rain,' and it does. And when the south wind blows, you day, 'It's going to be hot,' and it is. Hypocrites! You know how to interpret the appearance of the earth and sky. How is it that you don't know how to interpret this present time?
Why don't you judge for yourselves what is right? As you are going with your adversary to the magistrate,[/color] (read "Divorce Court")[color:"red"] try hard to be reconciled to him on the way, or he may drag you off to the judge, and the judge turn you over to the officer, and the officer throw you into prison. I tell you, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny."[/color] (Luke 12:54-59 NIV emphasis added, consider this also in the light of the parable of the "unmerciful servant")

cinnymd - It is, and always has been, GOD FIRST. All the rest is "works" and vain attempts at "doing it yourself" for Christians who will not surrender there lives, totally, to God. Your husband is NOT "there" yet. You were definitely NOT there when you chose "affair" versus honor the "for better or for worse" part of your wedding vows and succumbed to the "world's" idea that there it's okay to "have an affair if YOU think you need one for whatever reason" and that "marriage is NOT a lifetime commitment with GOD, as well as with our spouse."

YES, there ARE things that we DO, it is NOT just "sit back and let God do all the "doing" for us. We are commanded HOW to "do" for our spouse. We DO IT from a position, a posture if you will, of SERVANTHOOD. Just as Christ did for us, up to and including giving his life for his "bride", no matter what Joseph, Mary, the Jews, Peter, the Apostles, or you or me thought about what he was doing.

Your husband has the OPPORTUNITY to put his Christian faith into practive and WITNESS to those around him, friend, family, etc., BY how he "mirrors" Christ's forgiveness and restoration in HIS life. YES, the "cost," the painful things that we sometimes have to "endure," can be high. But no matter the height or depth or breadth of the pain, we STAND for Christ and force our human will to submit to God's will and promises BY CHOICE. We "give truth" to the claim that "I am a Christian, bought and paid for by Jesus Christ" by our ACTIONS when faced with adversity, more so than at any other time. Others SEE what we do DESPITE how "badly we may have been treated," because we place obedience to God AHEAD of personal wants, desires, and fears.

Cinnymd, I have said it before and I'll say it again, you both NEED to be in Joint Christian Marital Counseling with a counselor who is committed to biblical obedience and to saving marriages "in trouble." It is GOD who can, and will (according to His own promise) lead you both into a better, stronger, more loving NEW Marriage with CHRIST as it's center....IF you BOTH will "let Him." But God WILL NOT intrude if either of you chooses to put your own will and thoughts ahead of His commands. He'll even wait for the disaster of divorce to occur if necessary. He waits for us to humble ourselves and to shed our "stiff-neckedness."

I continue to pray for you and your husband. I would still love to talk with your husband some time, should he ever want to talk about the "tough things."

God bless.

FH,

I don't have time to really read what you wrote, but I printed it out. I just want to say that although I haven't e-mailed you, it is not because I wanted you to stay out of anything. You told me that you don't check that all that often, and I have also been keeping myself very busy these past couple of weeks. I am doing private tutoring two days a week and I have class one night a week to add on to my teacher certification. The weekends I try and spend time with M whenever I can.

As for the MB weekend, my H did seem genuinely interested in it, aside from the money issue. I figured if I could get people to sponsor us, then we could go. There are other some other marriage retreats coming up next weekend ... one is Retrouvaille and the other was recommended by another MB called Family Dynamics or something to that affect.

Off to go tutor. Private tutoring is definitely great money, and easy too!

Forever,

Just wanted to let you know that I wrote you an e-mail in regards to what you said. If you decide to write me back during the day, please send it to my work address since I can't check my home e-mail from here ...


siatkaa@ocps.net

You have opened up the flood gates, FH. I have now sent you TWO e-mails (the second one is an update on the first one). It's the weekend now ... so you can respond to me at home. I don't to have any thoughts of work until Monday morning when I walk in that door! (Of course, I have papers to grade so I guess I will have to be thinking about it at some point this weekend)

Well, things really appear to be looking up. This weekend, my H and I went and spent the night at a little B&B in St. Augustine (a place that has always been special to us). Going away was my idea, and my H suggested a place that had meaning for us, which was really nice. It was definitely quality time where out top two needs were met (probably his moreso than mine, but that is the way it needs to be right now). He suggested that we have dinner tonight, also. At first we were going to go out to dinner, but he suggested that I go over to where he is staying and eat dinner in since we spent so much money this weekend.

I know he wasn't emotionally all there this weekend, but I am so happy with what I got. Now I want more!

Dinner went really well last night. We made dinner together and got to have time to talk. Afterwards, he suggested that we go out to a movie. After the movie was over, he told me that he felt sad and that he wished it was still the weekend. I don't know if it was because he didn't want to go in to work today or if it was because he wanted to spend more time with me (I am hoping it was the latter). I stayed with him until about 1 in the morning trying to help him fall asleep. It was so nice to be close to him.

We have an appointment tonight with Jennifer Chalmers. Things seem to be looking up. It's a slow process, but we are getting there.

I am finally beginning to understand what people mean when they say that reconciliation is a roller coaster ride. This weekend was amazing. Yesterday ... defintely went down. We had an appointment with Jennifer Chalmers and my H was so frustrated and angry about the appointment. He said that he hates talking on the phone and feels like talking with Jennifer is impersonal and doesn't relate to our situation. He feels like she just repeats what is in her book. He was so frustrated that he didn't want to talk me. He said he felt like breaking something. This weekend he was talking about things we would do toward reconciliation, and yesterday he said that he isn't ready to do anything ... that he just mentioned thinking about it.

I told my H that if he felt like MB was only going to frustrate him, then it wasn't going to be something that would work for us. He recognizes how much I have invested in it and how much it has helped me, but I let him know that we need something that works for the both of us, not just me.

Ugh. How am I supposed to handle this roller coaster?

Just a little update. I have been feeling frustrated lately. On the weekends, H seems more than willing to do things with me. He even initiates things. But during the week, he is a completely different person. He is completely unwilling to cancel our mediation appointment which is now only a week away. Yet he can't seem to tell my why he refuses to do it. He goes from doing a great job at meeting my needs on the weekends to LB'ing during the week.

He doesn't want to talk to Jennifer Chalmers anymore. He says he doesn't like talking on the phone. He feels like she is pushing him to do things that he isn't ready for or doesn't want to do. And he feels like everything she says just comes from the book and isn't in any way personal. Of course, in my opinion it is hard to start to make things personal if he hasn't even filled out any of the questionnaires.

Sorry...just needing to vent.

Cinny,

The problem is simple. Your H is young. He doesn't understand the commonality of these situations and that counseling will ONLY become personal when enough of the information has been conveyed back and forth.

Further, he is still struggling with whether to let this divorce go through or not. So he is not fully on board with reconcilliation. It is a roller coaster because of the constant struggle betweeen wanting to trust and NOT trusting.

It takes time and patience so keep that in mind.

God Bless,

JL

I know that he is not fully on board with reconciliation. But in my mind, cancelling the mediation appointment is not stopping the D process. It is only slowing it down. I am just so afraid that we will walk into that mediation room and things will go so horribly wrong that we will have no hope of renconciliation after that.

I know all of this takes time and patience. Time I am willing to give. Patience is a little harder for me sometimes.

Today is a rough day for me. My H is out at Epcot with a friend ... the very thing we did together last weekend. Normally, weekends seem to be the time that we spend together, but now we are spending it apart and that is killing me.

I tried explaining MB principles to him last night. In order to restore the feeling of love, you have to spend time with each other meeting each other's needs. But it seems that he refuses to do that. Instead, he essentially let's everyone but me meet his needs. He is spending his most enjoyable time everywhere else.

He said last night that he wanted space. I am more than willing to give him what he needs ... well, maybe not "more than willing" but I am doing it anyway. But what frustrates me is that he said "he never asks for anything" so I need to give him this. If I could count how many times he has said "he never asks for anything"...

I had also asked him earlier last night if he wanted to hang out after he went out to dinner. He told me that he was too tired and that he had to be up early to go to Epcot. Turns out he just didn't want to spend time with me, because he still ended up staying out late.

I know he is the BS here, but it does strike me as kind of cruel (looking at this from the outside) that he allows you to meet his needs for recreational companionship, SF, conversation, and others when he really seems to have no honest intent of trying to save the marriage.

What exactly is he up to here?

I know his family is not supportive of reconciliation, and he thinks he is utilizing his God-given right to divorce you for adultery, but how Christian is it to lead you on if he plans to go through with the divorce? I'm confused about his motives.

NTL

Oh how I wish I knew.

I had some thoughts, but not sure if I want to post them here.

Does he read here often?

First, let me answer your question. No, I don't think he reads here all that often anymore.

Now I feel the need to vent about my night last night.

So yesterday I asked H if he felt like seeing a movie later on that night. He said he would let me know (as usual). Only this time, he actually did let me know and he said yes. He asked for movie times and I made a couple of suggestions, and then he just asked me to print out all of the times and bring them over, so I did.

He ended up picking a horror movie at midnight. Now, horror movies and I don't go well together, and H knows that. The images stay in my mind and I get awful nightmares. I can't be alone right after a horror movie, especially when I see it at night. There was one time when H and I were dating and H was away and my friend took me to see the Blair Witch Project. I called him in tears after the movie and he was so mad that she made me see that and that he wasn't there. We ended up talking on the phone for hours.

Back to my night. So I agreed to this movie, thinking that H was aware of how I would react and wanted to be there for me. So we saw the movie. There were a few times during the movie that I got so scared that I started shaking and crying. It was a very scary movie. (The Fog, by the way). The fact that they kept bumping up in the air in the theater didn't help my nerves so much. So I was naturally really shaken up after the movie. And I didn't want to be alone.

Only H got mad at me. He yelled at me asking me why I agreed to see that movie and why we stayed in the movie when it was clear what type of movie it was. He told me it was just a movie. When I told him he knows that I get like this, he said "yes, and it is really annoying." I brought up instances when this had happened when he didn't feel annoyed before. When we were dating and saw "Signs" and wouldn't leave his apartment that night, his response was "Well, we weren't married then and I would have done anything to get you to spend the night because you never would." When we first started dating and he came to spend the a few weeks with me at my parents house and we saw Stigmata and then I couldn't even brush my teeth without him standing next to me, and his response was "I guess I was just more interested then."

So on top of feeling absolutely awful after seeing a horror movie at midnight, I had all of that to add to the mix.

Cinny, perhaps POJAing stuff you do together might be more approrpiate than yoru CAing and having a bad time at a horror movie?

You need not have goe to that movie:
" Honey I love you and I want to spend time with you, but these movies frighten me. Can we choose a movie we would both enjoy ?"

Bob,

I didn't think it was something that needed to be POJA'd. It was something that he wanted to, and I was okay with it, because I thought it was something that give us the opportunity to be close.

Cinny everything is POJAed in our life now. It sometimes doesn;t take long to achieve agreement but EVERYTHING is offered up for agreement by both of us.

POJA is a great tool that just vaporises resentment on contact!

Also because you are a repentant FWS, that doesn;t mean you have to subject yourself to stuff you really don't like. If horrir movies affect you badly, you should stand your ground and not see them. Perfect POJA opportunity.