I just got off the phone with WS. We spoke for a little under an hour. He's been thinking about the letter and conversation we had last week before I went dark again. It was our first real communication in almost 3mos. He was totally sober and very clearheaded. Just like the old WS that I have known for 5 yrs.

We talked at great lengths about the friend that did us both wrong. The pain that he has put us both through in playing with our lives. He wanted to make sure that there is no more contact with him and I told him that he's been told not to contact me any more.

He said 5yrs is a long time to just say goodbye and I want to be best friends like we have always been. However, he also said in the same breathe that he wants everyone to treat OW with respect but that he doesn't care what they say behind her back. But to be cordial to her when she is there.

He wants to get his business back up and running. He's tired of sitting around and wasting away. OW is struggling financially and they can barely keep it together.

He also told me he's having problems as his SSN was recently stolen and two individuals are trying to get credit in his number. Wierd, I wondered why I had been getting all these credit card applications in this other mans name lately. But just returned them all as RTS No Such Person.

In any event...I realize that I have been in Plan B since the day he moved out. But due to all the circumstances that have come up in the recent weeks regarding EXfriend and everything that has come to surface because of that (all the drama)...I am now going to actually step backwards into Plan A. The past 3mos have been filled with nothing but LB from both of us and with him now focusing on pulling his life back together...I want to be there as his friend and see what happens. If it's meant to be and we can move forward now that EXfriend is out of the picture and I can show and fulfill his ENs then perhaps OW will LB all over the place.

I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts on this. Again remember I don't have the vows of marriage here...so it may just end up being friends...but he has been my best friend for years now. I miss that friendship more than anything. But I also know that once you have loved someone it is quite possible to love them again...as long as I go into this friendship with an open and pure heart then I can leave the rest to God. If friendship is all I get from our years together...then I can accept.

I've been praying and praying for something to happen here because of all the pain of late and this is the door that I have wanted to open.

Lisa,

I sure am not a wise one around here so I have no wise advice.

Maybe since you didn't plana , maybe you should give it a go. I just would hate to see you hurt again but you need to follow your heart...

I do wish you luck and the best. And who knows maybe things will turn around for you and he will see you are what he wants....

Big mistake. Stay in Plan B. I went back to Plan A, and now we are on the way to divorce.

Let her meet his needs.

Believer,

But we are not married so he already is gone and moved on. I never had a chance to do a Plan A with him. She is already meeting his needs and apparantly from what I hear doing quite a nice job of it. I can hear the respect and admiration in his voice when he said he wanted everyone to be cordial to her. There was no babble or fog. They are buying up things on her credit what little she has left. Getting his car refinanced...etc.

I think the drama of the past 3mos was just too much for him to regain his love for me...or is it? I don't know. It was just so nice to hear him again, the man I love.

Sexy,

I didn't realize you weren't married..... In this situation your WSo isn't saying anything about coming back, rethinking your relationship -- not that it necessarily matters, but I think the best thing for you would be to continue Plan B.

Sally

I slept on it last night and I swear it all came in a dream to me...the understanding...let me see if I get it right...when you say have him meet his needs...she can't. Not the way that I was able to and you were not just talking about emotional needs. He knows that I have all the tools he needs for his business to succeed. I taught him, bought him all the equipment etc...it's all here...he has no way of buying it now and neither can she. Because he extended his hand out to me yesterday for friendship...and said he was not happy without me being in his life he's starting to see the fog lift? Stay back and let him continue to live in the fog.

Do I have it now, finally?

Well, no one can meet his needs, it is impossible to meet the needs of an alcoholic. The only one who can is Jack Daniels. It is a waste of time to attempt to do it yourself, Sadie. What he wants is to have you available for exploitation, as a resource to be used while he carries on his affair and lives his sleazy bar life.

In the meantime, Lisa, as long as he knows you are there for him, he can continue drinking because he knows you will catch him when he falls. If you are removed - in a REAL Plan B - he can more quickly face the consequences of his choices. And the sooner he does that, the greater his chances of sobering up. But, as long as he is drinking, you will just be woman #3, after #1 Jack Daniels and #2 OW.


And you should not have done so if you had the chance, it is a waste of time.

Thank you...I definitely feel that I was blindsighted by him yesterday...he was sober and it was so nice to hear his voice. But after sleeping on what I was told here...I realized that it's either manipulation on his part or he's starting to see things because he is going down and is realizing that he has nothing now...going back to the dark...back...back...back!!

Thank you Melody.

"He knows that I have all the tools he needs for his business to succeed. I taught him, bought him all the equipment etc...it's all here...he has no way of buying it now and neither can she. Because he extended his hand out to me yesterday for friendship...and said he was not happy without me being in his life he's starting to see the fog lift?"

Is he looking for you to meet emotional needs or business needs? The dignified thing to do in this situation is step back and let him decide.

Cherished

I agree...that is what I am going to do. He either gets the whole package (me) or OW who has to try her best to fulfill all his needs emotionally and business wise...We know she can't do the business side...and the emotional support she offers is a bottle of Jack. So it's his call...reality or fantasyland...so mad at myself that I almost let myself get manipulated again by him...damn the weakness of love.

I just came from an excellent session with my Therapist. She specializes in families of addicts.

I asked the million dollar question "Why would someone give up everything that they have...to have nothing" Her response....You can't make sense of insanity...and what is the definition of insanity...doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results.

She said that the only logical/acceptable reason to me right now for what he is doing would be to find out that he has a brain tumor. Nothing else will ever make sense when someone has an addiction, no matter the addiction.

OW is definitely nothing more than the enabler. She appreciated the babble that he had expressed as why he loved oW (dinner whenever they wanted, she puts up with my !@#$ and I put up with her !@#$). She said that issues don't usually start happening in relationships for 6mos.

We discussed that the only way that someone looks to sobriety from an addiction is when the Cause is greater than the Benefit. Right now his Benefits are still too high for him. By losing everything around him, the Causes become much greater for him. For some it takes one DUI, for others it takes death...the spectrum depends on the individual. If I was to assist him in getting his business off the ground, it would just be adding to the benefit and in the meantime would hold great emotional risks for me...compared me to being used by our exfriend. Thankfully, I made the right decision when I didn't accept his offer. Phew....one point scored for the home team.

The pivotal point in the session was when she asked What was my greatest fear in losing him and I said because I would lose the love of the family unit that we had, the laughter, the friendship, joy, tears...everything that we had together. She said...didn't you lose that the minute he walked out the door? Silence from me...she said and you have SURVIVED haven't you through this? Silence, then Yes, I guess I have, haven't I? Pivotal moment...I then thought of everyone here who is currently in Plan B...we are all in fear of losing something...that we have lost...at least for now, maybe forever...but we're all still here, aren't we?

Just thought I would share some of her insight.

He had text messaged me again this morning wanting to know when we can start his business back up. No response from me. As a matter of fact I sat down and did my check list of Benefits/Costs of continuing the No Contact that my Therapist asked me to do. No Contact benefits clearly outweight the benefits of Contact.

Feeling a bit sick to my stomach...I was explaining babble to my best friend and she told me that the best babble out of his mouth yet was "She likes being on top." when WS talked about OW. God...this one is killing me...we had a great, very fulfilling sex life...why would he even say something like this? Babble, yes I know babble...but it still hits in my stomach.

ML:

You forgot Johnny, Jim, Jose, and good old Granddad...

Nah, it's just him, Jack and his best friend in the world Bud!!

Oh honey it will go away and return again. Sorry your feeling bad. But you are doing great with your decisions.

SexyLisa,

Amen to that! Ups, downs, slantways and sideways, some days are going to be better than others. But isn't life like that anyway? It's just we never expect the low days to ever be quite so low...

Do you have a "No Contact Phone List"? Sort of a SexySadie's contact everyone on this list first list? It helped me a lot. I was very tempted to contact Phil during the first few weeks of plan B. I basically would work my way through every person on the list until it was too late to call or I didn't want to call anymore.

Are you going out more at all? Are you eating? Bathing? Doing the things you need to do around the house? Just checking!

Sally

SA,

Well let's see in 2mos I have dropped from a size 8 to a 4. But I am still eating. I had a wonderful lunch today from Quizno's but my tummy doesn't like food much anymore...boo hoo. Trying to get back on the food track.

Yes, amazingly I do bathe. once in the am and again in the evening if I am going out. I'm still lousy about wearing lipstick...but I always smell purty!! (bonus of owning a perfume shop) (That's why I say WSo stinks now, he used to smell wonderful and sexy with me...he doesn't have the goods anymore!!)

I went to throw darts with friends the other night. But that was the first time out in a week or so. Don't have the energy like I used to since opening the store...plus the memories are sooo strong. Not good memories...just all the drama memories.

House is spotless except for carpet which I need to shampoo/rip out!! LOL!!!

My business is doing fantastic. Had my ad come out today for the shop. I'm official. We just landed our first sales rep for the line we are importing from the UK. Tons of stuff to keep me busy. We just finished closing the deal with the rep and WSo kept calling and calling during the meeting. Finally left me a voicemail saying he was waiting to hear from me...keep waiting honey...I've got more important things to do than listen to your latest game of manipulation.

I have two contacts and then my therapist who analyzes anything I can't figure out between the two NoContacts. My first one is his exbusiness partner who knows him inside and out. She says he is definitely cake walking. He wants party girl and wants me because I represent the good, the future life he wants and the past life he knew he had...but she lets him drink. But we all know he won't leave there until he sobers up...which may never happen. But I do see that he is starting to NEED me more. I just need the strength.

I have to be able to Let Go...and let him and OW figure out how they are going to make ends meet. It's not my problem anymore. I just don't want to live with the guilt of if...he is reaching out and I don't help him...he will drink himself to death...not ready to live with that and don't know quite how to deal with it. The way I see him now, I could honestly see him doing it to hurt me. Terrible thing to say but he's done so much to inflict pain...I could see it happen.

Well he called a total of 8 times yesterday...Sent 4 text messages. The final one being around 10pm "What happened 2 being friends?"

Sigh...I am proud of myself for not answering/returning his contact attempts. But I know that OW is around when he calls at night. No reason to talk and hear more babble.

Everyone is telling me that I just need to talk to him and tell him that we are not friends, no one wants to be around OW nor him while he is living there and that I am not going to help him with his business. Otherwise he will continue to call and call and call because he knows that usually he can wear me down. I think it will all fall on deaf ears and honestly I think if we did talk again, he'd just be able to manipulate me into what he wants.

Sadie - NO!

The bulk calling and whining are NOT your end goal. He can have you when the A is over, OW is out of the picture, he decides to make a commitment to your relationship and he gets help for his alcohold addiction AND if at that point you still want him...

Nice thing about MB - we want what is best for YOU. A few phone calls and texts aren't what is good for you. Not even close! You stick with your plan. You're doing great. NO CALLING.

My e-mail address is below. Go ahead and add me to your no contact help list. Sorry I didn't think of it yesterday!

Sal

I agree Sally and he has already started text messaging me again this afternoon. I did have text messaging shut off/blocked from his number so I am not sure how he is getting through either. He's trying to break my will here. I don't understand why he's doing this to me? He wanted out...he got it...yes I was weak a bit but I am finally starting to hold my ground and he's really testing my will power here.

Will send you an email...thank you!!