Hi. This is my first time on here. I need advice. I have been with my husband for fourteen years. We have three beautiful children. My husband has made love to me ONCE A YEAR for the last twelve years. I am a very attractive, intelligent, idependent woman. I am almost 39 and I feel very sexual. Please do not tell me to stop thinking about sex. I have been deprived for too many years. I am extremely resentful towards my husband, but we are both believers, and neither of us really wants to get a divorce. BUT, I am really at the end of my rope. He refuses to get counseling. He does not think he has a problem!!!!!!!!! What do you think?

Will he compromise with you and have sex at least once a week? Have you asked him?

<small>[ January 05, 2003, 03:06 PM: Message edited by: baba2 ]</small>

Married 14 years, sexual problems for 12. Any idea what might have changed after the first two years--healthwise, relationshipwise, familywise, etc? And was the change sudden/drastic or a slow drift?

I can really empathise with you Jeannie2, as my x refused to have sex the last 7 years of our marriage and rarely during the first 5. Have you talked to him about it? What reasons does he give for not being interested? Is it possible he views porn or was molested before meeting you?

Jeannie2 --

What do I think? -- I think he has a problem! But it's not necessarily the obvious one here. We need to look more at the "why" than at the "what."

Fourteen years of marriage and three beautiful children; there must have been a time when... How was your premarital sex life? How were things with him during the first 2-3 years? Once a year in frequency is highly unusual.

I don't blame you one bit for being resentful. You have a strong need ("EN" around here) that's not only not being met but is being minimized, virtually ignored, by your H. You've told him of the problem and he refuses to address it = potential marital problems. You're already unhappy at least with that piece of your marriage, but it's a major piece and, unaddressed, they have a way of contaminating other areas of a relationship.

So, welcome to MB. We're good at tackling major issues around here and we'll help you all we can.

You've brought up counseling and he's refused. Could it be the concept (some men have a problem with this approach) that there's "something wrong with him." I would say Joint Counseling is a sound way to go. That way your problem has a chance to surface in a controlled setting (with a referee) and be much less threatening to him. Also, read everything on this site pertaining to EN's and sexual disfunction. Lots of good stuff here.

Bottom line: long-standing problem for you in this marriage. It absolutely needs to be addressed before it infects the good parts of your relationship. Now it's reaching critical mass for you; you're tired of sublimating.

But that's why you're here, so you're working on it already. More details about your situation would help us--whatever you're comfortable with. Let's get some other posters in on this and please hang in there with us.

Ammon

<small>[ January 05, 2003, 04:22 PM: Message edited by: Ammon ]</small>

Thank you all so much for your prompt replies! I have a feeling I am going to get some emotional support here! In answer to your questions, the sex was daily for the first month or so. Then it gradually reduced. After about two years it became yearly. I feel that there has been a "snowball" effect. The more he rejects me, the more "cranky" I get, and he doesn't want to touch me if there has been even the tiniest element of discomfort in our relationship during the day. RARELY does anyone have a perfect day. Well, obviously we haven't! I really hope that I can get beyond all of my resentment to work on this. I am so close to divorcing him. I am getting a lot of attention from other men, and although I know that the solution is not to run to someone else, I am really losing hope with my husband. By the way, yes, he was molested as a child, and yes, he views the most perverted and taboo porn you could imagine (behind my back, of course). Any more feedback is greatly appreciated!

By the way, I am trying to figure out how to reply to particular posts. In answer to the question about compromising and having sex once a week, are you KIDDING!!! If I even mention that I want it, or try seduction, he backs off farther! He has to have complete control over the situation. I gave up a LONG time ago trying to seduce him or make compromises. I have even tried to "flash" him and he turns away!!!!!!

Hi Jeannie. I just brought that thing of "once a week" sex up for two reasons.

First, so we could get a handle on where you guys were at and now receptive he was to compromise! I see now that he will not compromise!

Second, because I had a similar problem with my husband(I know how painful it is and how rejected and unhappy you must feel) and the "once a week sex" thing actually worked for us to try and bring our sex life back on track.

I am sorry he had that childhood abuse. I am also sorry you could not change him, say 10 years ago. All those wasted years! You had children with him and made a life with him and everything! How could you do all that realizing his problem? Or was sex less important to you then while having and raising kids and now sex is becoming more important? Just trying to understand. I feel for you. This problem is close to my heart! And could rear it's ugly head in my marriage again if I am not careful...

Hhhhmmm. Sounds like he has some deeper issues that he needs to deal with (BTW, that need to have complete control of the situation is something that apparently is seen a lot on sexual abuse survivors).

Somewhere on the web is a site for partners of sexual abuse survivors...I recall looking it up once for someone here, but can't find it right now. However, I think that looking up info (on web, in books and/or from a local support group) on sexual abuse survivors may prove helpful to you.

Kathi

Thank you, baba2. Actually, it's kind of funny, in a twisted way. A couple of years ago HE brought up the idea of having sex on Wednesdays and Sundays (to try to appease me). The FIRST session never even happened!!!

I am interested to know more about your situation. Do you think the once a week thing has actually helped to mend your marriage?

Dear Jeannie,

I am very sorry you are having this problem. There are many of us men who have a similar problem, and far too many women.

If your H is using pornograpy, it is possible that he is also satisfying himself too much, which would decrease his desire. Because most men would always prefer a real responding woman to any two dimensional image, I really think he could have an addiction problem.

The only thing I would suggest is that you talk with a female minister at your church about this problem. You really need to get some counseling about this situation, although your H may refuse. I do understand, because my wife also refuses to go to any counseling.

It just really breaks my heart to read posts from wives who have husbands who refuse to resolve any problems.

I read an article a few years ago that floored me. It came from a Christian Psychologist. It described my husband to a "T". It was about sexual abuse survivors and how they function in their adult lives. It said that they do not like to be seduced, they do not like oral sex (if that was done to them) and they have to be in control, often doing "kinky" things like bondage.
Since my husband flat out refuses marriage counseling, I need to deal with my issue of lack of sex, not his issue of past molestation. That is what makes my situtation seem so hopeless to me.
And, yes, I have wanted sex the whole time, but a good portion of the time was spent being pregnant and dealing with babies (yes, it took one time of having sex to get pregnant each time), and I spent a lot of time dealing with anxiety and depression. But, now I am back in school and feeling very good about myself as a woman.

Yes. I am lucky enough not to have personal knowledge of the subject, but from what I have read also, he sounds very much like that is the root issue.

Yeah, I know you cannot just "fix" him, but there IS a lot written for partners of abuse survivors, even on on-line support group.

<small>[ January 05, 2003, 04:45 PM: Message edited by: kam6318 ]</small>

Yes. I got panicked when I never knew if or when sex would happen or when he would want it. It could be three weeks until he initiated sex or 4 weeks. He kind of forgot about sex and when I tried to initiate, he would either pretend to ignore me or say he was tired, etc. Somehow I got it thru his head that I married him expecting that regular SEX would be part of our marriage. After 3 years of "peace talks" and "other negotiations"(we have been together for 4 years) and bad things like me stomping out of the bedroom when he rejected me, and fighting with him about it, he agreed to the "once a week sex". I told him it could be any kind of sex, even hand jobs. That way it did not put pressure on him to perform like intercourse would. At least, the once a week sex allowed us to get the frequency up and then I could work on lack of variety, lack of foreplay, lack of oral, etc. It gave me a possible "artists canvas" to work on the other stuff. Without any sex at all, or rare sex, or unexpected times for sex, there is no way to work on the other details of good sex. At least I know he will make an effort once a week!

I should look at some of my old posts here at MB and you could see what the progression was for my marriage. And you and I are not the only people here at MB with this problem! Don't feel alone!

Thank you, John. Wow, I can't believe all the responses I am getting so far!
I know that it is much more common for women to refuse sex than for men to. I think that probably a lot more woman were molested as children, and also I think that it is a lot easier for a man to get aroused and enjoy sex than it is for a woman. I am at the point, once again, that I think I will talk to someone again, at my church. But, the problem is that lately I have told my husband several times that I am going to divorce him. I am SOOOO at the end of my rope. He just might not accept a change of heart in me.

I really, really wish he would go for the once a week compromise. The problem is, if you can imagine, after fourteen years of virtually no sex, it is very uncomfortable to deal with this issue. He recoils, literally, in bed, and when I bring up the subject for discussion, he gets very upset. He actually had me convinced for years that it was MY problem! I do not believe it anymore, though, because I have a lot more confidence in myself now. But, I wonder if we can ever recover from this. There is absolutely no intimacy in the marriage. We just had out eleventh anniversary, and it was completley non eventful. He acts like he hates me, but manipulates me by telling me that we have to start from square one and build a relationship if there is any chance of us every having sex. He will not tell me he loves me, or say anything nice to me, or even kiss me, but he leads me on to believe that deep down he really does care, although sometimes he tells me he is just here for the kids. He really thinks that they won't be affected by seeing their parents completely devoid of love and affection. I am really starting to disbelieve the manipulative talk. That was a big part of what kept me around all these years. Anyway, I don't even know how we could do this on our own at this point. I think that the only way would be with a marriage counselor, but as I said, he won't do it.

Yes, in my experiance, men won't go to counseling for sexual issues. It is a total affront to their manhood, they feel. They don't like the humiliation they feel telling an outside party they "can't get it up" or "can't make love to the wife"...Other issues maybe you could get him there...

The funny thing is that when I went for counseling with the pastor's wife about 5 years ago, she said, "He was molested as a child." I said, "Are you asking me or telling me?" She said, "Well, I have talked to enough survivors and partners of survivors to know."

Now, I am willing to read up on information for partners of survivors. But, and this may sound ignorant at this point, I still don't think that there is anything I can do to make him want to make love to me. I think that he has to realize that he has a problem.

And, no, I don't think I can get him into counseling for anything else, because at the same time that I was talking to the pastor's wife, we went for a few sessions of Christian marriage counseling together and he told me that I manipulated the counselor and got her "on my side" and that he would never go back. And he STILL refuses to!!!

He had you put up with his "not putting out" for 13 years now so maybe he thinks you will still put up with his problem. All of a sudden, you are being firm and asking for a change. Thank goodness you are getting more confidence in yourself because of going to school! Good going on that! Have you ever asked him what sexual frequency he liked or would he say, "never". When did you find out about the abuse? Did he hide it from you? Did you ever expect you would have a sexless marriage or did you expect good, frequent sex in your marriage.

I ask this because I always expected great sex in marriage or I would not have married him. I also thought it was my fault when our sex life started getting infrequent. It took years to find out he was the one with the problem and years more to get some confidence and try and solve the problem. I did not have notice of this in our dating years. Mine took Viagra to try and hide any sex problems.

<small>[ January 05, 2003, 05:21 PM: Message edited by: baba2 ]</small>

Jeannie2-

I do not favor destroying marriages, especially Christian marriages. But it is important that people not use that shield to kid themselves into thinking that they are somehow being noble as they violate both the marriage vows and the scriptural dictates. The evangelical church does a horrible job addressing these kinds of issues- they generally avoid them, thinking that somehow this is more holy, when in reality the churches are chicken- and thus drive people in directions that are simply wrong.

Your husband is violating your marriage, by specifically neglecting his duty to you as spelled out so very clearly by Paul in 1 Corinthians 7:3 & 4. There is no excuse whatsoever for a spouse to deny his or her partner what God has given, period. In my opinion, you would be under no spiritual bondage if you decided to end the relationship after he has refused a fair ultimatum to change, though God gives a special grace to those who endure under the worst circumstances.

I think that he has committed adultery against you with the porn, and if all of the facts are as you state here (without other mitigators) you may even need to consider a Plan B to get his attention before any possibility of loving him has disappeared. Drastic, yes, but he needs to stop kidding himself. A "believer" doesn't just believe, he obeys. God calls us to be disciples, not religious showmen.