Jean, Plan B should be done only AFTER Plan A is done. They are in that order for a reason.

ok, Jean, I get the message. If you want some help, I will be here. Take care.

Jean~

Just thought I'd chime in here, though all the advice Melody is giving you is dead on, I want you to see that the things that she is telling you are NOT just her opinions or just her methods...they have proven to be tried and true time and again. Does it help you to know that everyone on this board that have been here, even for a little while, would agree with Melody wholeheartedly? I believe that many times, when people read a thread and see that someone is getting the right kind of guidance, they decide not to post because they think it isn't necessary...and it isn't, based on the advice being given...however, the understandable insecurites of the person in crisis, coupled with their lack of conviction in the MB principles make validation of the credibiliy of that advice critical, IMHO. If that is the precipice upon which you now stand, I for one, am telling you to act on the very sage advice of Melody...if you need additional convincing, change the title of your thread and include a poll asking if you are being led in the right direction...With 100% certainty I can tell you that I already know the outcome of such a poll...I think if you are honest with yourself, you do too...

ANYWAY, a few things that I wanted to point out to you...

***YOU ARE NOT SECOND OR THE DEFAULT CHOICE HERE***

Allow me to explain...

1. First and foremost, you are, not only the #1 choice in God's eyes, you are, in fact, the ONLY choice! Don't allow your own insecurity to take hold of you...Operate from the standpoint that he has no other choice...right now, you must choose for him, because he isn't making responsible choices...if you can't do it for him or yourself, do it for your girls...you can "eat poop" for them, can't you?

2. In my own experience as a FWW, the OM dumped me...I'm sure that at the time my husband felt that he was "playing second fiddle"...but he stuck with me anyway...Today I can tell him, as I tell now tell you, that there is NO WAY that he is second choice...WSes can't see the forest for the trees during their "flight of fancy"...If my situation would have worked out differently, and I would have left to be with the OM, I would have had one rude awakening coming my way...he wasn't even in the race with my h...People always "AFFAIR DOWN"...Who will suffer the most if you don't get in the game here? Your daughters, in more ways that you now realize, I assure you...

3. If your H was a Crack Addict, would he be able to make sound decisions? NO, of course not...Would he choose you or his next fix? His next fix, of course...Would that be a good choice? Obviously NOT! Would you feel insecure about being second choice to crack? POSITIVELY NOT, You know without question that you are better than crack! It's easy to see how superior you are to such a low life street drug, right? JEAN, THE OW IS CRACK!!! A person that is not addicted to crack would KNOW that you are the obvious choice...YOU NEED TO BE THAT SURE, YOU SHOULD BE, YOU HAVE TO BE!!! Please look at your husband as though he were strung out, and lying on the floor of a Crack House...because that is EXACTLY where he is right now! GO HELP HIM!!!

***YOU ARE NOT BLACKMAILING ANYONE***

Jean, this is not blackmail at all, in fact, let me give you the dictionary definition of blackmail...

blackmail 1. a. The extortion of money or something of value from a person by the threat of exposure of something criminal or discreditable. b. Something of value extorted in this manner. 2. Tribute formerly paid to freebooters along the Scottish border for proteciton from pillage.

I believe that we have already established that the OW is NOT something of value. I say, put the ball in his court, where it belongs, on this...HE is putting OW in jeopardy by crossing the boundary of marriage that says you don't sleep with people other than your spouse! HE is the married man sleeping with another man's "wife"...IF the OW gets deported and her "husband" gets brought up on fraud charges, then the "blood is on his hands"...Tell him that it's not up to you, HE is the one putting OW at risk by continuing to see her...If he cares, then the CHOICE is HIS...NO CONTACT=NO RISK/CONTACT=RISK...even in his current state of mind, surely he can understand a concept as simple as that!

You are the "good guy" here, don't let anyone convince you otherwise...Look at the people that are telling you to back-off as salespeople peddling worthless junk...so far, you've bought some of their cr*p, but you aren't falling for that again...YOU WON"T BE SOLD... YOUR ACCOUNT IS CLOSED!!!

Please follow the advice that you are being given here...A Good Plan A will empower YOU...

Mrs. Wondering

Mel,

So far IMHO, Jean has done a plan A. Not necessarily by reading MB principals in detail but from sheer survival.

The point here is how clear is Jean's mind as she prepares to do a plan B. I believe she should call Steve H. Right now things c/b spinning fast for her with the deportation threat looming. Every day that OW risks her stay in this counrty. Yea that must make the A less attractive.

Jean, please consider the following:

Your strengths:
A. You are in your family home.
B. You have your children. Make them your support center and you be their support center.
C. You are the legal wife.

Your opposition/weakness:
1. You love your H but the WS is the only character present right now.
2. Your H has been kidnapped (in a mental, emotional and physical way).
3. Your H was probably a KISA and may not realize the OW is using him to satisfy her SF since her M is in 'paper only'.
4. The deportation priority is more important to OW, OWH and her boss.
5. Many in the community may support A's and whatever along with illegal immigrants.
6. Your children c/b your weakness. If and only if they are threatened by the WS and the illegal immigration community (ostracism, etc.).


Suugestions:
1. Secure your family's finances. Expect the WS and OW to try to take it away from you and the children. WS will never admit it but plans may already be brewing via OW. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
2. Call Steve H @ MB for immediate counseling. Create and implement a solid plan B.

3. No more communication with OW's H, OW or the illegal immigration supporters.
4. Expose to in-laws. Expect t/b met with no support. Just do it and watch their reaction. This one may take time. Your future interaction with them will then depend on their reaction and actions.
5. Expose to your family. Let your family know that what you tell them is in confidence and would appreciate their support. Before you tell them anything, let them know that you tell them because you respect them and while you are willing to hear their suggestions, you request they respect your decisions since you are not able to tell them everything. Remind them their support is appreciated. You can use this same speech with all you tell (including your in-laws).
6. Look into moving out of the area.

7. Learn to use the weakness' of the WS/OW and A to your advantage. Here's the one's I see right now:
a. Your H appears to be a KISA (knight-in-shining-armour). If so, then the OW is a fraud anyway. She wants not just him but your life. She wants to replace you as his W. Her H w/b glad to get rid of her IF the M is a paperM.
b. If the M is a paper M, all the more so to report her, her H and her boss. Not you report her, let someone else do so. Talk to Steve about your options on this one. While you don't want t/b tied to this, annymus tips c/b sent to have her investigated. That should send sparks in the community. If you can do this and be safely away from them, then their retaliation (should their be any) would not have the same strength. I am painting a worse case scenario here. This is why it is critical to move away from the area. If the WS doesn't follow, make sure you can survive financially without him. File for legal separation or D to secure your finances.

8. Check out your legal options. Don't be afraid to take the D walk. This will protect your family's existance. Preparing for a D vs finalizing the D vs the Ws or H coming home is all later down the line.

9. Visit your doctor for STD testing and anti-D options.

10. Don't let the WS' threats scare you.

11. Identify your personal boundaries and implement them.

12. Pray for a clear mind, calm heart and lots of patience.

13. Know this will take time.

14. Be sure of yourself.

15. Don't lose the love of your H. Don't give that love to the WS. It will not be appreciate.

16. Learn to tell the difference between a WS and your H. Watch his eyes when you have communication in person. That's usually a tell tale sign (unless they are very good at deceiving and lying).

IMHO, it is best to plan A your H but plan B the WS. Ask Steve about this technique.

take care,
L.

oh ok, Orchid. I have been reading every one of her posts and haven't noticed that she's been in Plan A at all. Heck, she hadn't even exposed to the OWH the last time I talked to her.[I don't think she has yet] That is all part and parcel of Plan A and another reason to stay in Plan A.

She shouldn't do any more exposing once she goes into Plan B, because she won't be around to clean up the damage. Otherwise it just looks like she is exposing out of pure vindictiveness. Rushing into Plan B just because you want to punish the WS [which she does] is a terrible strategic move.

But, it seems you are telling her what she wants to hear and since I have no intention of "helping" someone against their will, I will leave her in your hands and move on.

The ONE thing I do agree with you are telling her is to call Steve Harley, though.

Mel,

Maybe I misread the following post:

Quote

The exposure thing is just not going to pan out for me. I have exposed and no one really gives a damn. There seems to be a small green card issue. Everyone involved with OW is a ****** of a lot more concerned with that than with this little affair. His boss lied, WH lies, OW lies, OWH wants this to go away to protect his own [censored].

I was in plan A, but the contact was continuing apparently. I did not know about MB until 2 weeks after D-day. Too little, too late. I can plan B now, I am done dealing with the alien. But, since there has been more exposure, MAYBE the OW will stay away-there seems to be a risk of deportation if little wifey raises a stink.

If he wants to come home, I will ask for more guidance if plan A is possible at this point. I am assuming that Plan B is in order now.

I from that and another post, it appeared she was done with plan A. Because of the paperM sitch, Ow's H wouldn't care either way. It was more a marriage of convenience.

IMHO it appeared the OW may want more than the WS and that is why I caution her to remove herself from that area, secure her finances, seek Steve's consel and the rest of the list.

Jean,
Did you expose or not to OW's H?

L.

Orchid, she just started PLAN A and as far as I know, has not exposed to the OWH. I am not even sure she has exposed to his family and her family. If she goes into Plan B now, just after her H has moved out and before she has exposed the affair, it will be disasterous. He will just view it as vindictiveness on her part.

Jean~

Just wanted to clear up any confusion...What I MEANT to say was...

Does it help you to know that everyone on this board, with the exception of Orchid, would agree with Melody wholeheartedly? Geez, I don't know where my head was...

Jean, Melody has read your entire thread...not just bits and pieces of it...take her advice, even if it's not what you want to hear...she has your best interests at heart...

I am afraid that you may choose to take the advice of Orchid because she is spoon feeding you validation for giving up. Sorry Orchid, I just don't think that you've paid enough attention to this thread to be giving such bold advice...let me give you just a small example of what I'm talking about...




Jean...Do you see what I mean here?





Jean I agree with Melody AND Orchid on this...Can you AND will you call Steve Harley?


JMHO,

Mrs. Wondering

Oh I give up. I was simply trying to help her get a plan. Of course she had already done some of those things. I outlined a checklist of sorts. But if you all think this is not good for her, I willingly bow out of this thread.

I was not spoonfeeding Jean. Not my style. The info I gave Jean is similar to what I have said to many others.

Jean, regardless of what any of us think, the decision is yours. Make it as best as you can. Get the best help you can.

I certainly don't want to be the one who hampers your progress. If I did, I apologize.

All the best.
L.

I don't have a clue about all of these other "Plans" and "strategies" that so many speak of here, but I think the advice of #8, 9, and 10 are excellent.

The STD testing and complete abstinence of Sex with a WS UNTILL long term NC has been established and a full battery of STD testing has been done should be part of Dr Harley's plans. I am in complete befuddlement why this is not part of the good DOCTOR's plans. Has he ever mentioned this very REAL FACT OF LIFE in his principles? Maybe he has, if he has, could someone provide me a link. In my opinion, this IS NOT stressed enough.....

I think sometimes people get so caught up in GD "aliens" and "emotional needs" and "being nice" and "stopping LB's" that they forget that there unfaithful cheating spouse is a potential harbinge rof disease, and they need to realize that alien or no alien...HIV, Syphillis, Gonorheaa, and Herpes...are out there and usually find nice "breeding" grounds in those who practice infidelity.

I am admittedly a Plan A/Plan B "principle" moron, but as long as I am here, I will be preaching the importance of STD's and abstinence......Someone has to champion this cause.

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Melody, I was not blowing you off, I had to go to work. I do appresiate all the time you have spent with me.

Yes, I screwed up plan A royally. I sat here for a month trying to meet his needs. I had an angry outburst at the MC's office where I described my pain. That is when WS decided it was time to mentally check out. I know that a month is not time enough for plan A, but that is all I had. The minute the kids were out of the house (to visit his sister), he was gone that night.

I screwed up plan A. Big time, I wanted to prevent a relapse. I believed in my husband, and by the time the signs were there again, he had already justified his A in his mind. He is a conflict avoider, I am a conflict confronter. I pushed, he ran.

He came in tonight with the girls (after retreiving them from his sisters). He had written me a note full of all the typical fog babble about magnets that fight yada yada. He said he might be making the biggest mistake of his life and then he went and ripped my children's heart out.

He said OW will not return his calls, but asked me how I would handle it if she is at the kid's next b-day parties.

yes, I screwed up plan A. HINY would not care, it is a fraudulant paperwork marriage. Perhaps he is getting paid, but they do not live together. Everyone else knows, his family thinks he's wrong. His work life wants me to shut up about it. HINY is the only person I have not spoken to directly and I only confirmed his ID AFTER WH had moved out last week.

I screwed up plan A.

I can understand how you might want to throw in the towel and I can't blame you. If you change your mind and want to work on this, give me a shout.

Here is his letter if anyone wants to take a stab at translation.

Jean,
Let me start by saying how much this hurts me too. This isn’t the easiest thing I’ve ever done. We don’t work. Over and over we have tried and failed. Nobody plans to fail. And it’s hard to face sometimes. That’s where I’m at. Admitting it. I failed. We failed. No right, no wrong. We just don’t seem to fit. We have moments. Not all good, not all bad.
You ask me what I want and need. That’s not an easy question to answer. I’m not sure. Guess I haven’t got life figured out completely. It upsets me when you say that I’m not thinking straight. I feel like I’m seeing clearer in a lot of ways. Admitting my failures allows me to see things differently. I feel like, in the need to save face, we keep hurting ourselves. Because we are afraid to admit our own failure. I’m tired of hurting and being hurt. I want to be happy. I want you to be happy.
OW didn’t do this, she might have been the trigger, but not the cause. That blame belongs to me, to us. And it’s not our fault. We are different in a lot of ways, and the same in others. If you force two magnets together in opposing points long enough, resistance breaks down and the magnets come together. But there is no draw either. We shouldn’t have to work to come together, we should be drawn together.
I’ve asked myself why now, what changed. I guess I feel now or never. We are still young enough to have a chance to find what we need and still enjoy it. I know this sounds selfish, but this is how I feel. I’m sorry. I want you to have that as well, not just for myself. You deserve to be happy too. I don’t know if only one of us will find it, or both, or maybe neither. But I truly hope you do. You asked me if I was happy, no. Not right now. This is killing me. I don’t want to be mad anymore.
I hope that we can move past this and take care of our girls. I know this is hurting them as well. But I do know that we can do this without them growing up to hate either of us, if we do this together. All I am asking for is a little help. We were able to do this in the past and we can again. It seems to me we were happy before. We were able to work so well for them. Please help me this time. Don’t make me fight for scraps. I’m too damn tired for that.
Anyways, think before you react.
WH

OK, this is the translation

Jean:

I want you to please calm down and stop causing such a mess in my life by talking about this affair. This is noone's fault we should just accept that. The kids can get over this if you help them, and stop meddling and making such an issue of the affair. I want to stop feeling guilty for all of this, and you could sure help me out if you "play nice" and go along with the plan.

Your WH

I would love this to work. But he is gone. HINY is the only person I have not spoken to. HINY would only be concerned about jail, not his wife. And contacting HINY would be seen as retaliation at this point right? WH was already out of the house when I confirmed HINY's name and business.

Everyone else knows. Exposure is done. She is essentially single.

So I will gladly take any suggestions you have. He does not seem to feel good about his decision. But, who can believe anything at this point, right?

I don't mean to frustrate you. He said that he had made up his mind after the last MC appt we had on 9/7.

Who the he## is HINY? Help a brother out...

HINY=husband in name only

It is a marriage for a green card thing.

Ohhh...thanks. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

It doesn't matter if he was out of the house when you found all this out, Jean, he did not stop being your H when he left. You are still married. I would MOST DEFINITELY contact the OWH and have a chat with him and make sure he understands that his W is having an affair with your H. Since he supposedly doesn't "care" anyway, this shouldn't be a problem. What would be "retaliatory" about that?


WHO knows and EXACTLY what were they told by WHOM? Unless you personally have talked to his parents, your parents, close friends, they have not been exposed to. I am unclear about your discussion with your H's boss. Does he know and has he told you himself that he doesn't care?

And lastly, why would you NOT call up the naturalization and immigration services to report the OW? If she is not only breaking the law here, but trying to break up your marriage, why wouldn't you call? Why would you help cover up for a lawbreaker who is trying to steal your H from you and your children?


So what. You are throwing in the towel because of this? Your H is a state of confusion, just as are all WS'. His state of mind changes from day to day, minute to minute. This forum is FULL of WS' who "made up thier mind" at one time who are back in their marriages. You should liken your H to a falling down drunk. If a falling down drunk told you they had "made up their mind" would you take it seriously?

Who told you this was a HINY?