stung, I don't know if I have seen any official MB statement on this, but hopefully folks have the common sense to know they should be careful if they think STDs are are an issue.

Melody:

Come on now, I know that you are a well respected member of this forum and am sure will get 100% backing with whatever you say, but I don't care and am going to take you to task on this statement--> "They should be careful if they think that STD's are an issue"............what does than mean?

Do you think you or I can judge who might have Herpes (which is for life), or Syphillis or HIV.....ANYTIME there is an UNPROTECTED sex (a near 100% certainty with people who are having affairs)....STD's are an issue.

Once again, I ask you....is your advice to Jean to have sex with her husband during her plan A (while he is still having sex with the OW)...YES OR NO? PLease don't qulaify the anser, there is no need to. It is either a yes or no.

You usually tell it like it is (I respect you greatly for this), BUT I knew (and was suprised) I was on to something when you tried to evade my question the first time. I am not backing down from this here. I do not know why this issue is not talked about more by the followrs of these concepts....or even addressed by the Harley's. Do you belive that it should be talked about more? or addressed in a offical manner by the Harley's? It is almost like the big white elephant in the room that noone wants to talk about.

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Jean, hows about doing some reading up on emotional needs? Your first step should be understanding WHAT is an emotional need. There are many good articles on this forum and some good, MUST READ, books are Surviving an Affair and His Needs, Her Needs.


It sounds like admiration is one of his top needs. He wants to be respected and admired for his knowledge. What things could you do to fill that need?

Emotional needs: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3300_needs.html

As for the SF thing. He is still denying that he and the OW have had sex. Oh well, whatever... There is a part of me that would entertain that idea. When he was packing tonight, there were some condoms left from our time separated. He trashed those, I was watching to see if he would pack them-that would be a definate sign.

I am pretty sure, that I would blow her away (not literally) in the SF department. That is my strong suit <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> IF, the question were posed, I would probably lean towards meeting that need. I would insist on using protection. But, with my WH, he has always had a strange Madonna/****** complex thing. When we were married for the ten year stretch-our SF was terribly irratic. He could not bonk the "mother of his children". It was some strange pedestal thing.

Now, I think I have become the ****** and OW is the Madonna. He did stop SFing with me about 2 weeks before D-day. He said he realized how emotionally attached he had become to OW and couldn't make love to me anymore. During the 2 weeks post d-day, all systems were go in that area. I felt like that was one thing that she hadn't taken from me and I was going to enjoy that one area of my WH that she didn't get to yet.

But, even if they have or will soon, I probably would try to fill that EN for him. If he is asking me, than she is probably not doing it right, right? Or am I just cheap?

Like I said, that is one of the two things that he says we are really good at. Would he respect me less if I let him "use" me for SF in a casual way?

Lem, but I didn't evade your question at all. We all have common sense here and have already talked about STD testing in this thread. She is not a moron who needs to be told: "don't screw your H while you suspect he may have STD's". Good grief. You are seeing things that are simply not there.

A person should be very careful in the SF department because they may have a WS who could give them STD's, in which case, common sense would dictate one doesn't sleep with them. The only "white elephant" is in your imagination, my friend. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

If you suspect he is having sex with her, then I wouldn't do it. Meeting his needs is not "allowing him to use" you.

I think the one EN he has that I will come up short in is recreational companionship. Affection is something else we struggle with, we don't seem to have the same ideas of tokens of affection.

I can have him pick up the kids at fun places instead of just at the house, show him I want to get out and have a good time. When we were separated before, we actually spent more time together than we did when we were married. We really coparented great and amazed everyone.

Admiring him right now, that will be a stretch, he is not acting very admirable. But, I can find something to compliment.

Jean:

To be honest, I don't think there is much else he could do to "respect" you less than what he has and is doing to you. So if that is what would be holding you back from having SF with him, I wouldn't bother. No need to worry about the "respect" issue.

Did he feel respected and admired by you as a man before this all happened?

[quoten issue"............what does than mean?
[/quote]

Good grief. You are seeing things that are simply not there.

The only "white elephant" is in your imagination, my friend. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> [/quote]

LOL...I like that.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Jean, just a word of warning about Lemonman, he does not understand the MB program, has never used it and has great animosity towards it. Just keep this in mind when he posts to you: Marriage Builders has saved hundreds of marriages, Lemonman has saved exactly ZERO.

On the respect and admiration-yes he did until he rewrote history. Even when we were separated, he knew that my loyalty was to him and the family values he had instilled. He keeps going back to what happened 10 years ago, he doesn't seem to look at the past year at all. That is something we disagree on. I look at the past year-we both changed drastically during our separation. He wants to look at the whole 15 years. He is holding behaviors against me that just haven't existed in the past three or so years.

Lem-not that he'll ask, but are you saying SF would be OK since he can't possible respect me less than he does now?

Mel, I could have scripted that you would day that. I never ever ever professed to be able to save someone's marriage. When people come out and say things like you just said, they say it for a reason. I called you out on a comment you made adn you get all defensive and make a comment that I myslef would 100% agree with. I have never ever professed to have saved a marriage.....BUT....does that make me ineligible to question some things of the program. This is the 3rd time you have used this statement when you have disagreed with me....now that...I find funny.

Lem.

somehow I did KNOW it was going to come to this if I dared try and question somehthing here.

I didn't say that at all, what I said was that if you are solely not going to have SF with him based on your fear of himing respecting you less, I think you needn't make that one of the reasons. He already could not respect you any less....so that point is mute.

Lem

Lem, but you know every word I said is true. Newcomers should be warned that you don't know what you are talking about and have enormous animosity towards the program. I am sorry if that upsets you, but when you try to undermine this program it needs to be pointed out. You had hoped you had me cornered with the SF question and when you saw that you failed, you tried a new tack and attempted to tell her he would lose respect for her if she met that need. Now c'mon, LM, you are being a little apparent and just trying to interfere.

I will continue to point it out your inexperience as long as you persist in being an obstacle when we try to help folks use this program. They are here to learn about Marriage Builders, after all, not the LemonMan Builders program. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I really don't know how I hear things so differently than most people. That amazes me, Wh says the same thing-I didn't say that at all. Hmmm, I'll have to work on that.

Like I said, he won't ask. If he did, I would over analyze-he hates it when I do that to. But it was nice to not think about my impending celibacy for a moment.

Jean, Lemonman was being sarcastic with you, but you didn't expect to treated sarcastically here, so you missed it. He is not here to help you, but to confuse you as much as possible and make you doubt the MB program. He is not posting in your best interests, but against them.

I am hearing, find opportunities to comment on his admirable and respectable qualities. Is it wrong to use the kids as "bait" in the recreational companionship thing? ie "I've got passes to take the kids to the zoo, you wanna come?"

Such a fine line between trying to appeal to him without appearing needy. But, I need to just be really happy with myself inbetween appealing efforts right? Have a "I am so happy to be me day" and then a "wouldn't you like to be a part of this you big strong handsome brainiac" day?

But, we did this during the separation, both turned into what the other one wanted. He is going to see his A as proof that reconciliation does not work for us.

Jean, why were you seperated before? What happened? And it sounds like you did lots of good things during your seperation but stopped doing them when you reconciled? What happened?