Nope. You want this to be a big surprise. If he (or your wife) gets wind that you might expose, they will spin a story to tell his wife. It will be something like you are some psycho that has delusions about an affair.

It is much better to ambush them. Sooner or later, she will answer the phone. Then give her the details. Tell her your wife wants to leave you for her husband. Offer to send her any proof.

A few thoughts.....

Yes. You need to expose. You can't hurt your marriage anymore than it is. My ex FLIPPED when he found out I exposed. I'm glad to see that you're starting that process. You are not hurting the wife or his family. HE is having an affair.

Second, don't move out. It diminishes your opportunity to do a Plan A. In the first post you said you've begged, pleaded etc. Read up on Plan A. It is so much easier to do if you are living together, especially since OM is far away. (My OW was in another state). A well done Plan A is a beautiful thing...and exposure is part of that.

Lastly, my ex had this idea that we'd divorce, he'd live close and come by to see the children everyday and nothing would change except his address. It's part of the illusion the cheater must create to justify the horrific pain they are causing. When she says things like that, turn it around.

Tell her that sounds okay for some people but you want more for your children.

Tell her you don't understand. Ask her to explain it. When she starts to, still look at her and honestly tell her you just don't understand how that would work.

Or... when my ex would say these types of things I would look at him and repeat, as I had 1,000 times, my goal is a happier and healthier marriage and family than we've ever had. It's my sole focus. I hope you want our family to be better too.

FIM

you know I've changed completely since the revelation that my wife was unhappy (I wasn't happy either but 3 children 2 careers etc. little time left) I re focused on what was important to me - wife and children - somthing I always strived for - however I thought it was my duty to work hard (yes lots of time @ work - missed holidays, birthdays you name it but I was to be the provider and let my wife and children to have anything they wished - unlike my up bringing) all at the expense of my relationship..I thought my happiness (spousal) would come later..but bang she was unhappy emtionally and then met another who said he too was that way. I have told her that I'm right in regards to our relationship - that this is a mere bump in the road and that in the end all will work its self out - that when I make a commitment (ie. Marriage) I keep it. All of this has made her more distant and resolute in her determination in ending our marriage - I don't know if it has been my over bearing determination on fixing the problems in our marriage or if her infactuation w/ this other guy - at first she was emotional (cried alot because she feared looking like the bad guy in all of this - but over time has gotten colder and more distant - she has a friend who told her to humour me with marriage councilling until I finally got it..that the marriage was over..friend also told her to go slow w/ new guy until he was sure about his relationship..funny she was our maid of honour 11 years ago..B.tch). I'm not quiting despite the advise of friends/family - I beleive that I was meant to be w/ her and that the children need a strong and loving family.
But maybe I'm off my rocker - in denial as one friend said.
Staying has got me no where.

Staying has gotten you nowhere, because she is still having the affair. Your efforts won't work. It is like trying to placate a heroin addict. They only are thinking of their next fix.

Stay calm, and let her know that you are standing for your marriage and kids. Then, expose to the OM's wife. You might be very surprised how quickly the affair ends.

That is when the real work begins.

There are a ton of people here who were told they were in denial.

You certainly won't ever know if you don't try.

THANKS everyone I'll check back in the AM. Have a great nite.
PS. I tried calling back and got an answering machine - try again tomorrow.

Hi, spinmaker.

The answering machine, if you didn't use a calling number blocking prefix (usually *67), is indicative that the other man probably knows you are trying to call. He is likely doing 'damage control', and is telling his wife all kinds of things, making you out to be an insanely jealous and abusive husband because he is a friend to your wife. He will probably tell his wife that your wife has told him these things.

So, when you do get through to his wife, just stay calm and give her the facts of the situation. The truth will get her attention.

All cheaters are liars, spinmaker. You can't be one without the other.

You are doing the right thing exposing the affair.

Gimble

Spin,

Get a 3rd party if possible a female to make the call for you,with you present. Wait to call when the supposed trip is suppose to happen. Be prepared to give details or submit detials via fax or e-mail.

As for your W, she is a full fledge WS and will say whatever it takes to string you along to get you to enable her A. Does that make you just sick?!?!? It should.

Now you need to get a plan so that you don't stay sick but learn to take decisive action and move forward. Learn about the plans A and B. Call Jennifer @ MB for some immediate phone counseling.

Do NOT move out of your home. Go secure your family's finances and look into pressing charges of neglect or adultery (if you state allows). Expect your W to charge you with neglect or something stupid. WS' are a strange group. They are aliens to the family arrangement and will seek to destroy your family. You need to get strong via a good plan.

Please read Surviving an Affair (W. Harley) and Love must be tough (James Dobson).

Give your children your love and ask for their support. They are young but the older ones are old enough to know who is being the real parent.

You may not believe she would stop being a good mother..... she already has done so. Be careful.

take care,
L.

I live in Ontario Canada - Adulrty means nothing to the courts and will not come into play in a court situation. I've secured a lawyer - set up seperate accounts/cards etc. My wife preaches a good line of us both being responsable adults and that we can proceed to a divorce without any negative results. She has set up a budget, division of assets etc. so that it can all happen quickly. She blames her shortness w/ children on all the stress of the situation and that once we proceed - everything will be fine because she won't be under such intense pressure. I give my children all the love that I can - but for them to live in a household with their parents living and acting as complete strangers - no emotion and very little interaction is not right - it is the wrong thing to demonstate to them - this is not how married people interact. If we divorced today she would be happy.

Let me ask you a serious question. If you move out today, what is that showing them? What do think they will remember about that? No matter what words you use, they are going to see their father abandoning them.

That was my biggest fear - but my wife is/has been pushing so hard to seperate that I felt that I needed to get some control (I know moving out doesn't sound in control - but her alternative was to have me cut a big cheque and she and the children move to a new house and I mean sooner rather than later). I have been giving and giving and she has been absorbing and given nothing back - her life is fantastic - no obligation to me and a piece on the side. It tears me apart for my children - but I told them - how can I back out now - I've painted myself into a corner!!! D-mn I always hated painting anyways!!!

All of this will probably pass, once you have exposed the affair. He will most likely dump your wife, and then she will go through withdrawal, and be back to her old self.

Hang in there. Don't move out.

“””That was my biggest fear”””

Let me tell you from experience, that is their biggest fear as well. No words you’ve said can change what they see and that is their daddy walking out the door.

“””but my wife is/has been pushing so hard to separate that I felt that I needed to get some control”””

Stick with us, we’ll help you get some control. And if things don’t work out, also, don’t do anything that your atty advises against. What you’re calling control is simply removing yourself from the situation and giving your wife control. She’ll have the house, she’ll have the kids, she’ll make the rules…..

“””but her alternative was to have me cut a big cheque and she and the children move to a new house and I mean sooner rather than later”””

And that’s backed up by a court order?

“””It tears me apart for my children - but I told them - how can I back out now - I've painted myself into a corner!!!”””

I disagree….. I believe if you leave you paint yourself in a corner. If you tell them that you love them and their mother and are going to stay they will feel that.

Do you want me or yourself to put out a separate thread asking for support out your Canadian way? Not sure who from your local area is on MB but I believe there have been some. There are several Canadian MB posters. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Just offering it if you need extra support which c/b helpful from getting advice for the legal legwork and stuff. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

take care,
L.

I've retained a lawyer already..but as she says she is not about saving marriages - just about the division of them - she told me her best advice would be.."work on saving your marriage not working on dividing it" she said that she would be able to get joint custody a division of assets etc. that I would get my "HALF" - not really interested in half - when I signed on it was for all... nothing less. The CANADIAN WAY from a world prospective is to roll over and take it..I've been doing that and its got me sweet p-ss all. It annoys me that I'm not acheiving my goal of saving my marriage and family! I've read more books and listened to CD's searched the net than you can shake a stick at...but thats the problem its only me thats been doing it..she has been living her seperate and secrative life all the while - happy as lark..unless I'm around. She has my sister and mother convinced that this was a long time in coming and that the OP is just not a factor and that because of the distance not somthing she could pursue anyways (he lives in SE USA) from a pratical point she is correct but nothing she has done to date seems practical to me anyways...how do you go to a conference in Philly - hook up w/married guy and then continue on computer and fly down to his city (she stayed on th AFB in Shreveport - he is a reservist and I guess than can sign people in! - nice Homeland Security - Non national on US military base w/ married soldier)...sorry venting

should I ask my children if I should stay or go? They are young...but I really want whats best for them. I don't want to put them in an akward spot - but I love them above all else. They called me tonite to see if I had moved out yet and if I was happy...very sad

Spinmaker,

Been where you are.......It's late and I need some sleep, but I'll throw in my $0.02. (BTW...I'm a Canucklehead too)

Your children are not make those decisions for you. YOU must make the best decisions based on the interests of your children. Your wife thinks that divoSpinmaker,

Been where you are.......It's late and I need some sleep, but I'll throw in my $0.02. (BTW...I'm a Canucklehead too)

Your children are not to make those decisions for you. They cannot grow up thinking it was their decision for daddy to move out! You can’t afford the therapy bills for that! YOU must make the best decisions based on the interests of your children.
Your wife thinks that divorce will be easy cuz you're making this easy. The easiest thing now (in her world) is for you to move out so little is rocked in her world. Don't do it....defend your family from the marital home. If she wants to live in la la land…….let her build her own domicile there. Do not let her think you’ll be “pals” post divorce. She need to know that will not be the case. She needs to revel in the bliss of being a single mom with 3 kids on a part time basis. You have to give this the “best” shot for your kid’s future so if it does go to divorce, you can walk away with a clean conscience which is priceless.

Seeing the attorney is a good decision just from an information collection angle. Educate yourself in this land of no fault divorce. Exposure is a must… the sooner the better. If there is a work angle to it as well, exploit it. Listen to the wise folks here. You have some credible advisors listening to your story. I will add my experiences as they aply. The Divorce Act is federal legislation so legally our situations will be similar.

Good luck

I'm going to expose the affair to the other spouse - I'll call again today, tomorrow until I get her directly - my wife will freak - I thinks she doesn't think that I have the balls to do it - well why should she - I have known for months and haven't done anything - I did ask her to stop seeing/contacting him in the summer for the summer - so that we could work on her marriage - she agreed but a) didn't stop contact and b) had no interest on working on our relationship, she would go to the cottage and party with the teenagers up there etc. (BTW I'm 41H she 35W). I don't understand the work angle thing - he is in the same field of work, but not a co worker no interchange between the hospitals etc - he might as well work at mcdonalds. If I let her co workers in on the situation she may be shunned (some are very religious) so how will that help the future between us - if any? This exporsure thing sounds pretty good but I can't help to relate it to the use of Agent Orange in SE Asia - worked great at the time - expose for all to see...but the long term effects have been devastating to everyone involved.
BTW you are right about my children - it is I, the parent, who should make those decisions.

1st order of business is exposure to the hubby's wife. Expect your WW to go off the wall. Revel in her anger and don’t apologize for it. Simply tell her that you are defending the marriage and that you have a plan….leave it at that. It is not the truth being known that is evil here; it’s her poor decisions and her attempt to destroy two families for her own selfish desires. They all do and say generally the same stuff. I too waited to expose as I was so appalled at what might be long term issues in a situation that just had to get better. My wife would come to her senses any day now……right?

Spinmaker………don’t under react. You have to defend this marriage from a position of power. You must rock the boat hard. You must do what is necessary to preserve the integrity of you family and not shrink away from the distasteful portions of what, to use your analogy, is a battle. Agent Orange would have looked like an excellent product had the forces in SE Asia been successful in their endeavors.

If telling the HW's wife does not work I recommend the scorched earth policy. Tell your WW's co-workers that you know well, family members, friends etc. The agency that the home wrecker works in may have strict policies on adultery. The US can have a far more conservative view on certain practices than the c’est la vie attitude of Canadian policies. The longer this goes on the tougher it is. These actions on your part should happen sooner than later and come in a flurry.

If she is still bent on destroying the family, I suggest you get a good separation agreement in place in which you get the children at least 50% of the time if getting full custody is not an option. Anything less than 40% will result in you paying an amount of child support that equals the amount you’d pay if you never saw them. Do not have a “first refusal clause” built into it as well so she gets to place the children with you whenever she wants to be promiscuous. This affair won’t last. A foreign country…..3 kids……ain’t going to happen, but it may destroy your family if you don’t hit it with the biggest stick you got. She will be angry, but she will also see you mean business and will respect that on some levels. I suggest reading James Dobson’s book Tough Love.

I just ordered Love Busters and Surviving an Affair from Chapters. I'm also going to Ancaster today and pick up the book by Dobson (they have it in stock). I have already read: His Needs/Her Needs, 5 Love Languages, Venus/Mars , Divorce Busting, Divorce Remedy Listened to CD's Light Her Fire and DVD's by Divorce Busting - information overload. I have researched the OP on the NET - found tons of info on him (scary really whats on the net) but unable to find info on his wife? I know her first name...only because I seen one of wifes e-mails and I know they have children because of same e-mail - I beleive that to beat an enemy you have to know him. My wife has agreed to joint custody - I have it written by her - but nothing formal or legal(?) I guess. I want to beleive that she would hold to it because its the right thing to do!