ack! shame on me for missing that! Big kudos to you, my friend! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Mr. Wondering (or anyone else who wants to comment)

I've picked my first 5 questions for my W as you suggested. Looking for feedback.

1) What do you feel was missing in our marriage leading up to the relationship with OM? What needs were not being met in your life?

2) When did you first feel attracted to OM and know that the attraction was more than a normal attraction?

3) What attracted you to OM?

4) Are there any places you went with OM which trigger your thoughts of him now?

5)How would you like me to proceed with asking these type of questions in the future? Do you like these questions written out 5 at a time? Do you prefer to have them in advance of our conversation or presented immediately for conversation? How often do you feel comfortable presenting these questions - Once a week?, twice a month? Is there anything else I can do to make this part of our recovery manageable for you?

Shaden

"movin' on up"

IMO, this is your best question. It is probably good to lead with this type question as she is expecting "how many time did you ***** OM?". Leave the first sentence but change the second sentence as it is now redundant to "I know you've probably told me a thousand times but the difference is now I am really listening, if you could make me meet do anthing for you what are the top 3 things you have me do????

You are likely to get foggy answers like "stop trying so hard" but at least the questions are constructive in nature when she is expecting something different.


Incorporate number 3 into #2. Though you could leave number 3 out completely as I can likely give you the answer now. To #3 she will say one or all of the following..."I am not sure...he's got this, this and this wrong with him I just have these overwhelming feelings for him", "OM is just so strong and masculine yet emotional, I can really talk to him and he just interacts with me at such a deep level", or, if she answers in complete honesty (which probably isn't possible now) she will say or eventually say "I am attracted to him because of the way he makes me feel about myself - I felt young, attractive, smart, sexy, fun, appreciated, blah, blah, blah."

I think therefore #3 could be changed (or incorporated into #2) and something short and more specific you'd like to know asked her like:

"Approximately how many times did you have sex?";
"Can you name 3 things I do better than OM?";
"Did you have oral sex?" - might not want to know this yet; or
"What was the worst thing OM said or did to you?"
"Were you with OM in our house or our bed?"
"Do you have a plan in place if OM tries to contact you...how will you avoid it/him...can such plan include that you will tell me or call me immediately?"



If you would like, change it to "To ease my mind and to avoid triggering thoughts of OM could you please list the places you two went together?".

Your orginal quesition may just illicit a "NO" response. I think you want actual information so a list request would perhaps be better.


Your most intelligent question. Just kidding. I think the last sentence should be removed as she is likely to tell you to "back off" or "leave her alone".

Finally, add a question 6 and ask her out for a date on a specific night at a specific time.

Mr. Wondering

Thanks, Mr. Wondering.

She has answered already that they were never in our house... she said "I would never do that"... I guess some acts in an A are worse than others???

She did say they were intimate 4 or 5 times... I haven't asked or heard any more details except the first time was late April, shortly before we went on a family trip to California. She also said that I didn't have anything to worry about as far as the sex was concerned. I am guessing that it was probably awkard with it not being a drawn out A. But this was one of the times I majorly LB'd when I could have helped move this along... when she said this, my response was "Ok... but you still kept going back for more". I wish I could take that one back. This wasn't long after D-Day, so I was still freshly hurting.

The oral sex question and others like that I don't think either of us are ready for. I like the question "What was the worst thing OM said or did to you?" Unless she cannot think of anything, this gets her focused on something negative about him... or focusing on things that I do better. Excellent suggestion.

Thankyou... I'll make the other changes and give them to her in a day or so. It's hard to know the right timing with us in the middle of a move, and all the emotions surrounding that. Maybe I'll wait even a week.

Shaden

Hi Shaden,
Finally found this thread. Boy oh boy! The questions posted here have me really thinking!!!
They are all things I have wondered but thought I dare not ask! That big old Avoid conflict at any price thing screams at me!
This is scarry territory for me! Especially thequestion about "things that trigger thoughts of the OP or places"
I am affraid to use the word "yummy" anymore! She used it in emails to H. Every time I hear it or catch myself saying it I think of her.
I am affraid to know what things they did intimately because I have a hard enough time pushing that out of my mind and if it is something I enjoy, or H enjoys, I may not be able to go there again. We have NEVER had trouble with sex....but I think we would if I knew about their activities. YUCK!!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Why does this whole thing have to be so friggin difficult?

Harmonie <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Okay, I need some strength again today.

After we moved into our new home on Saturday, and after all the help left, I talked to my W, finally about my plans. I told her that I had told my parents and told our friends who are the pastors and that I am planning on telling OMW... and had hoped she would understand and be involved.

I received all the anger and ranting that I expected... that if I do this I have caused us to never be able to go to her church again... that I am trying to control her... that I am doing this to hurt her... that she doesn't know why I have to do this... etc.

I asked her to put herself in OMW position and wouldn't she want to know... she said "yes", but can't understand why I need to do this. I said that I feel like I am also betraying OMW because she was a friend and I have known about this for 4 months now without telling her. I remained calm throughout the whole thing and did not become defensive as I normally would have in the past.

She left the room and I later found her in the basement crying in a chair. I sat with her for a while and then asked if she wanted me to leave her alone or hold her. She squeezed my hand and let me sit with her in my arms. After a while, she got up and said she missed our sons and gave me a kiss. We later watched a movie and she fell asleep in my arms.

The issue was not discussed at all on Sunday... she was "normal"... even reached over and took my hand while I was driving... which she rarely does anymore.

This morning I asked her about it... said I was confused. She said she is still very angry... she got into everything again...said she feels I am pushing her and she should be doing this in her own time. I asked what that is, but she doesn't have an answer. She feels she has no choice and I am going to do it anyway... she is still so angry about it. She says she is one step away from having to be hospitalized because of depression.

Is this all just manipulation? I was expecting a rough ride and several days atleast of coldness. When she became close again on Saturday evening, I was shocked. Was that an unconscious manipulation as she saw she wasn't getting anywhere with her anger... she thought that I would feel bad for her? Now she is back to anger because that didn't work either? Can anyone explain her actions?

I have called our pastor friend today and left a message for her. I need to get to the next step of telling OMW before I change my mind.

On a daily basis everything seems ok with my W as long as we are not discussing the R or A. She just seems to want to sweep it under the carpet and can't understand why I need to talk about it. She says it's never going to get better... I said it will if we discuss it... she doesn't believe that.

I am getting so tired of her not wanting to face up to the consequences and not wanting to do anything to fix this. She is just content to have everything go back to the way it was... that spells disaster for me as it will just happen again.

Shaden

Shaden, why are you tormenting your W like this? Why are you tormenting yourself with this endless indecision? This could have all been dealt with and done with months ago. Had it been done decisively and timely, you would be well into recovery and well beyond this issue. Does fear of your wife's emotions have that much control over you? Because, frankly, I have never seen anything like this.

Melody

What the ****** are you talking about? We all know why it didn't happen at the beginning... I screwed up and didn't have the resources of this site at first, instead I received advice to "protect" my W by keeping it quiet. We all know why it has taken this long... because I felt that after missing the opportunity at the beginning and as long as my W was having NC, then it should be something that is agreed to together... POJD??? Otherwise it was just a huge LB. Okay, I'm past that now as well. I made the decision to get the help for this but still thought it was best to tell my W ahead of time... I knew it would be rocky but thought it was better for long term growth. It took me an extra week because, simply I was just too busy with moving and the kids sick with the flu. We are now moved and I am moving to the next step.

If your intention was to get me a little angry so I could have some ba!!s, then I guess it worked.

But what did you mean by tormenting my W?

And yes, there is still some fear... a lot less than there was 5 months ago... but I have not yet conquered it. This step is the next step towards that. I believe I wouldn't be in the situation I am in right now if I didn't have the fear... but that is my cross to bear and wall to remove. Each step has been hard but I am slowly making them.

I always appreciate your blunt style... and you answered so I know you still care <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />... but I could have done without the "frankly, I have never seen anything like this.".

I believe in the MB advice, but unfortunately, my sich seems to fall into a crack. I didn't expose at the beginning and yet there is still NC. Total exposure is a tactic to be used to gain NC. I guess you could argue that we are in a false recovery and the NC is just a smokescreen... but otherwise, the ideas of LBing and POJD seem to come into play next. Maybe I just don't understand them. But I do get that I need to expose because this is bigger than just getting past the A. If we don't change, then the A will repeat. My W is fine and is in NC... but there is no real change happening. I need to keep pressing for anything to happen.

Thanks... any more advice or even 2X4s are welcome. I do respond better when I get angry. I screwed that up too when I first found out, I didn't get angry... my fear stopped me. Maybe it's time.

Shaden

Shaden, how long have we been discussing this? For a few months, if I remember right. Tbis is something that does not need to be endlessly discussed, or endlessly fought over. It just needs to be done.

It's a matter of simple phone call informing the OMW followed by a discussion with your W informing her that the deed has been done. That would reduce these intense blowups with your W to one blowup just telling her the deed is done. So far, I recall there have been at least TWO blowups over this issue and probably another one when - or if - the deed is done. Isnt' it better to have ONE blowup and move on than have several and drag this out endlessly for absolutely no good reason?

Can I ask what you are waiting for now? Every moment that you wait is another moment that this woman lives in a lie.

The only thing I am waiting for now is a call back from our friend. I plan to meet with OMW with friend there. I feel it is best this way than just a phone call because I know OMW and care about her and her kids. I want it done the best way for her as well.

And yes, I already know that these months waiting have not been what is best for OMW. I feel like I have betrayed her like her H did by not telling her.

If it can be arranged for as early as this afternoon or tonight than it will happen. If it can't be arranged, then I'll consider the phone call route.

Thanks,

Shaden

Shaden, please forgive me for being such a crank today. You are doing the right thing and I applaud you for it! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Shame on me.

That's ok, Melody.

I haven't exactly been the easiest person to deal with on here. I should have taken your advice a while ago. It was the fear that held me back... as long as I continue to be afraid of losing my W, then our M will never be as good as it should be.

If I can get past my fear, then I have a chance.

I do know that and am working on it.

thanks for your advice.

By the way, Mr. Wondering, if you are lurking, I also sent her the list of questions today. Probably bad timing, but I needed to start moving. I believe we are in a false recovery...everything is great, as long as I don't mention a thing about the A or our R... then I'm pushing and controlling. I do believe there has been NC, but she is still very vulnerable.

Shaden

I spoke to our friend now. She is calling OMW to see if she is at home (she works shiftwork as a nurse). If she is, then we'll meet right away or this evening. I'll have to miss my son's hockey game, but this is more urgent.

Shaden

New update... meeting with OMW in one hour.

Please pray for all of us... .that OMW will be ok. That my W will eventually see this as a necessary step... and that I won't back down from this (either in my meeting with OMW or afterwards with my W).

Shaden

Shaden,

Prayers coming your way...

For you and all involved.


Take care,
Brandi

Continuing to pray that God's grace would be upon all envolved.

Be strong, Shaden! You are a good man and God sees what you are doing. May God Bless your marriage. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Shaden,

I just checked in and am glad you are making progess.

You seem like me...very excited she has gone to NC and the want to fix everything wrong with your marriage overnight. I just want to remind you that working on the marriage/real recovery begins 1 to 2 months after withdrawal. The withdrawal period is a difficult time for the WS so your only job right now is to continue Plan A'ing and allowing your wife time to get over OM and clear out the foggy thinking. It is patently unfair but it is the reality of these situations.

I am glad you gave her the list...just wait and see how she responds. No pressure. If she fails to respond in a week give her the list again.

Continue to monitor for NC. My wife had a lapse because she wanted "closure". It is fairly common around here and I did not go ape over it. Mrs. Wondering was back with me and I was satisfied with things progressing. Everyday got a little better (some days worse than others but the trend was better each week).

Your wife is likely to continue saying things like she feels she will never completely love you like before, has trouble believing she can physically be with you like before and other fogged out statements. Just go with it and listen, listen, listen. Ignore the fog. Reverse babble some and minimize your LB's. Try to look for and appreciate the opportunities you have...as others around here do not necessary get NC. Take the opportunity to get to know the innermost secrets of your wife. Develop intimacy. There are opportunities here to become closer to your wife albeit the physical stuff sometimes has to wait. Eventually, she will trust the person you have become because of this ordeal, put her justifications/rationalizations (that she most likely is still holding onto), and realize/appreciate the magnitude of the love you have for her to have endured this situation. Just keep filling her love bank despite the hurt/betrayal you feel. I know how hard this is cause I just did it last summer; but it will be worth it, I promise.

Good Luck,
Mr. Wondering

Newest update.

The meeting didn't go as planned.

OMW didn't show up to friends house. I went by her house, she wasn't home. I went by OM's work, he "had gone home".
I spoke to my W... there were 2 calls on my home phone from OM... she said she didn't talk to him...

OM met with OMW before she could come to our meeting... do you know how he found out... my W didn't call him... my MIL called him to warn him.

OMW called me to meet with her tonight so I can make sure she knows the truth.

My W is angry with me... again blaming me... I said that telling the truth will not wreck OMW's life... she did it by her choices. She says I keep throwing it in her face and that everything has to be under my control. I just don't get this... if you ask anyone who knows us they would tell you that I was a "whipped" husband. I guess she doesn't like the fact that I am making decisions on my own.

I guess the real storm starts. I just don't know if I want to withstand it. I certainly don't want my MIL around my kids, but how can I stop that?

Shaden