Shaden:

Perhaps the best thing to do is RE-pack away those cards and make the decision to toss them or keep them for another time when YOU are further along the process. You can always throw them out later, but you can't get them back if you throw em out Friday.

Seems simple to me. Don't give this so much credence. You are facing the here and now" of all of this stuff, the cards of yersterday can be dealt with another day.

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Thanks, Lem

I was just up and down a little too much the past few days and that was one of my down moments. I think I'm sort of leveling off again... I hope.

I will be fishing them out and holding onto them for another day... just in case. I still think they are a product of lies because even now she admits there were many times throughout our M she was not happy but was too afraid of hurting me to tell me... kind of ironic as she hurt me a lot more by not telling me. I guess I was guilty of the same thing... not being honest about how I was feeling... this is probably our biggest issue to deal with now, and we have started.

Shaden

Wow, things turned interesting last night.

It continued to be a pretty good evening... we got the kids in bed and we were going to watch a movie. I was waiting for her to come downstairs and she called to me to say that OMW had driven slowly past the house a couple of times followed by OM in a separate car. We watched for a while and OMW drove by atleast a half dozen more times. OMW didn't sound herself when I talked to her earlier in the day. I called OM and he said it was a terrible night, he was out looking for his W.
As my W and I watched, we started talking some more... had an excellent conversation about our R and the A. She started to fill me in on some things.

The shock came when I asked if there were any others... and she asked me if I was ready for this. She proceeded to tell me that she had a ONS prior to us being married just before we were engaged. I remember the night because she had gone to a co-workers house, apparantly for an office Christmas get-together and she ended up being the only one showing up... arranged or not, I'm not sure. She was 18 and he was probably around 40. She was upset, but had said he had "come on to her" and she left. I am just finding out now that she actually consented to SF with him, but felt sick afterwards... he left his job just after and they didn't see each other again.

This happened 16 years ago and before we were M'd, but up until the recent A, I always believed I was the only man she had been with.

I think the hardest part for me is she admitted to telling this story to OM before me. Being with him for about 3 months brought more trust and intimacy than with me for 14 years plus. She said OM "pushed" her to find out about her past... if there was anyone else.

The positives are that she now wonders if OM pushed because he was hiding others from his past. He had told my W that she was the only one outside of his W that he was with.... I don't believe that, and now my W is starting to not believe.
The other positive is the fact that, even though it is years later than I would have liked, my W is now finally starting to open her secrets up to me.

I was able to just lie beside her and not react... I wanted to run, but I just held her and told her it was ok... that I was ok. I knew that at that moment, more than any other, I had to keep things safe for her if she would ever trust me with the truth again in the future.

This morning I feel a little numb. I don't think this news will affect me very much... I said everything is all in the past, that I only cared that we learned from it and built a new, better future.

I'm hoping this is a huge leap towards future intimacy and truth.

I still don't know this morning what happened with OMW... but I made sure all of our doors were locked last night... and now my W is a little scared about going out. I told her and OM that this is probably just a normal stage... she has only known for 1 week. I drove by OM's house and work once... and probably would have more times, but was afraid he would see me and call my W, which would have pushed her further away because of my "obsessive" actions. She admitted last night that she was a little afraid of me because I was not myself... I guess I wasn't and who would be.

Enough typing... I am in early at work, and because of the storm yesterday, our heater is not working... my hands are going blue while typing.

Shaden

Shaden

Shaden, that sounds like a very good conversation. I wonder if she is not extremely relieved that all the truth finally came out. She can now see with her own eyes that you still accept her even though you know everything? What a boon for your marriage! Just imagine what that does for the intimacy in your marriage for her to know that you truly accept her and love her? You are already reaping the benefits.

I feel very badly for the OMW and all the ****** she is going through right now. It had to happen, but I hope she gets the help she needs.

How do I trust my W again now that I hear she hid something so huge from me our whole M'd life?

I can intellectualize and say we weren't M'd so it shouldn't matter... if she had been with a boyfriend before me would that have stopped me from marrying her.

I can say that in a weird way, it makes the loss from the recent A seem a little easier... I didn't lose the innocence of her only being with me, because it never was there... I just didn't know.

I can say that she is telling me the truth now. When I asked if there were others she said "no"... and as there was no reason for her to tell me about the one, yet she did, I would expect she is telling me the truth now... unless she was testing how I cope with one truth before giving me more.

I don't understand why she hid this from me... I need to find out what she was so scared of... I rarely responded to her with anger when she told me about things she might have done.

I don't know what else she is not telling me.

How can I look at her the same way, knowing all this time, a central, fundamental belief of our R was a lie.

Her Mother and Sister both feel that I would never be able to get past the A (not based upon me, but upon their own experience). I was always confident that, if my W was also working on the R, that I could get past it... but now with this new info., I am not sure. Maybe this is why my W said there are just some things you don't tell.

I am happy that she did finally trust me with the truth... either that or she is testing my resolve and our future to see what I can handle. She could have continued to keep this secret and I would never have found out. Along with every other issue she has not dealt with properly from her past, I wonder how much this one has affected our R over the years. Did the guilt from hiding it block her from opening up herself to me... that it was always a wall between us from reaching the intimacy we needed and that wall allowed for the EA and PA to build?

I guess it comes down to how much I am willing to get past and forgive... but I want to trust her as well.

Shaden

Shaden-
Your story makes me wonder about somethings in MY marriage. Shortly after we were first married, I was sent to Germany for several months ahead of the family. I came home unexpectedly on leave, and surprised the wife. Everything seemed fine, and she was glad to see me. But...a few days later she just "HAD" to go help some friends that she had met move...so I of course went along, but she was pretty insistent that I wouldn't want to go. And she admitted that there was a guy there that she'd gone to his house and watched TV, and had fallen asleep with...was completely insistent that nothing had happened, and at the time I believed her...since she'd had all four of our babies with her at the time. Looking back now...I SERIOUSLY am wondering if something happened and she lied to me about it to keep our marriage together.

I wonder if I should ask her about it now. I know it wouldn't be the end of our marriage if she admits something had happened...but I don't know that she'd tell the truth about it after 18 years of silence if she lied back then. And regardless, she would be seriously angry and hurt regardless if I brought it up and asked her about it now.

Thoughts?

I don't know, Owl.

I would never had guessed this would have happened with my W... she chased me for 4 years before we started dating... seemed so in love and innocent. I am still in shock that it would have happened. I think maybe some kind of rape happened... but she said it was consentual. I think she was attracted to the guy, even with the age difference, and she was naive. But to think she let him do that to her when we were talking about getting engaged. Maybe, as you often hear, it was rape, but she blames herself for it. I plan to discuss this with our MC and see if she can probe further... I haven't asked my W any more questions about it, yet.

I always think that honesty is best... even if it hurts. If something did happen, you should know about it. Maybe you can tell her my story and just say that it reminded you of that situation early in your M. You also need to know that you want to know, 18 years later. But, for me, even though I question my ability to get past this, it may open up some doors to sorting out our issues and healing. I don't think anyone can function properly with hidden secrets weighing them down.

I wish I could be of more help... but I'm very confused and searching for answers myself.

Shaden

OMW called me again today and asked to see me. I said that she could ask me a question over the phone. She insisted on seeing me so she came to my work. I called my W and told her... she wasn't happy.

OMW wanted to kiss me...wanted to feel what her H and my W felt... wanted to seek revenge... etc. I said NO... it would only hurt her in the end. She did come to me and kissed my cheek when I turned away. I felt sad for her because I think she just wanted to feel loved and revenge at the same time... and I rejected her as well as her H.

I told her not to call me anymore... that she has to deal with her own M and I have to deal with mine.

She also told me more of what her H was telling her... that he was in a state that he would have had an A with anyone who showed interest... that it wasn't just my W. I relayed this info to my W. She is so depressed... feeling like she was treated like a ******.

She was furious with me for meeting with OMW. It didn't matter that I said No, that I said don't call again... she was still angry that I let her come to my work. This time I couldn't sit back... I let loose for the first time, really and yelled. I was so furious that I have been trying so hard to forgive, to accept, to do the right things, and she had the gall to get angry at me for this. I told her I felt that it was always about her... that I called her upset about the incident and all she could think about was how she looked in this... and how she felt.

She even had her sister call OM to ask him to have his W stop hounding us... how is he going to do that? She is too angry with him right now. OMW told me that the other night she spent about 10 minutes just beating on OM with her fists... I wasn't upset to hear that... although I wish it could have been me.

Later, my W was depressed again and sobbing... "it's never going to get any better, I'm always going to be reminded of this every day", she cried. But she did come out and wrap her arms around me after. I had to come back to the office to finish a report, and I don't think she was happy about that... questioned the driving conditions (supposed to be freezing rain), but I wonder if she was really thinking I was coming to meet someone.

I knew the good days wouldn't last long. It's not a huge drop, though.

Shaden

You did well. Not much happened in your sitch. You are on the road to recovery. The sooner your wife and you realize that recovery is not a perfect process, the better off you will be.

You know, I have to say that your W had that lambasting coming, Shaden, and I am damn proud of you for doing it. Good God, her victim is crumbling and the only thing she can think of is her own self. She is like the stabber who complains that her stabbing victim is screaming too loudly and disturbing her peace. Honestly, that is just downright sickening and you needed to point that out.

Sadly, affairs have consequences and your W is having to pay the piper now. Too bad she can't take it like a big girl.

My heart goes out to the OMW and I hope she gets the help she needs.

Good analogy, Melody.

I can count on you for either a 2X4 when I need it or a good laugh to lift my spirits.

thanks,

Shaden

UVA, thanks for your response.

I do realize this is a long process with lots of ups and downs... but I have found it still helps to post how I'm feeling during the down times.

Shaden

Great job turning down the advances of OMW and sending her on her way forever.

What a perfect revenge affair. I had a friend of mine, an old college frat brother, who had a ONS with the OM's wife after he uncovered the affair. His wife tried to come back to him the very next day after the ONS occurred. They never reconciled. He truly regretted it immediately. It was a hallow and completely false victory. On the outside we all thought it was poetic justice. I can remember his distaste for the compliments he was getting from our mutual friends. We all just had no idea.

If you share this story with other men they will likely think you are crazy for not going for it. It is a juicy sensational tidbit others will repeat to everyone again and again. So I say share this with no one as it is really a sad story of how hurt OMW is.

You sooooo did the right thing and I commend you.

Good luck,

Mr. Wondering

Thanks, Mr. Wondering.

As usual your words of encouragement are uplifting.

I had a feeling that is why she couldn't talk to me over the phone as she had made a couple of comments to me a couple of days ago. I should have told her not to come to the office, but she wasn't the "enemy" and I didn't feel right just putting her off. Now that she crossed the line, I feel ok to ask her not to call. Atleast I was prepared for it and new what to do... I just was not prepared for my W's anger at me.

There are plenty of other places for OMW to get help. My W feels she was telling me all that OM had said just to hurt her... even though it was helping my sich in that my W was starting to hate OM.

Shaden

Shaden,
I can't believe the circumstances that have erupted here.

You did awesome. So proud of you for "turning the other cheek" when she (OMW) tried to kiss you.

You take care!

God Bless,
Brandi

Hey Shaden,

You did very well handeling OMW. No wonder she was driving by your house the other night , too. She is feeling pretty messed up obviously. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

As for the way your W is taking things, it being all about her, that sounds like how she has been about this whole sitch. She STILL has not really seen how this whole thing has truely effected you.

You are still on this horrid rollercoaster. You are doing great, but when you are feeling discouraged I see your "doubts" getting stronger. Then, when W is opening up or talks are "smooth", you show your optimism.
I (imho) think this is all pretty normal for us BS's. At least this is what I observe from my own seat on this ride.

It sux that our spouses can be/seem so narcisistic and dense at times! It sux when our "Takers" start to scream at us "what about ME"? BUT, We have the tools, and we have our support here. We have an in sight that our spouses do not have....yet. Hopefully they will start to see more beyond themselves as the rollercoaster slows down.

I have to believe that this will get to be an easier ride with each passing day, week, month.
We are NOT going to get to "happy ever after" as quickly as we'd like to. That is how it is. Every issue needs to air it self out and find it's resting place. Hopefully it is a building block that strengthens us each day, for the better.

I have my doubts every day, along with the positives every day. This ride makes me sick and hopefull and dizzy with every up and down, twist & turn. How long do we hang on? How tight? As long as it takes, or till enough is enough.

Hang on and keep your belt tight and hands in the the car at all times, this is a bumpy ride. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Be well,

Brandi

Sorry I missed your post last night. Earlier when I first found out, I probably had similar thoughts to do something in revenge... but the thoughts were not serious. I am glad that I was so easily able to turn her down... I do love my W. OMW is a very attractive woman, but so is my W. I don't know yet if we will be able to recover from all of this, although I am very hopeful, but I don't want to hurt her in the same way she hurt me (and herself). I should not have told her the last thing that OM said about her... that it could have been any woman, in other words my W wasn't special to him. I do want her to hate OM, but now it is getting too much, and too hurtful for her. I wish she could see the love that is there for her in her own home. Maybe I am just expecting too much.

Harmonie, thanks for your advice. "Hang on and keep your belt tight and hands in the the car at all times, this is a bumpy ride." That line was great... I think my staff felt I was crazy here laughing in my office. I read your last post on your thread, I just haven't had the chance yet to respond... I'll try to later.

I just got off the phone with my W. Sort of clearing the air a little more. I think we are both just tired and need a break from it all... hopefully tonight will be more relaxing. She has apologized for how she treated me yesterday and realizes that I was in am impossible situation.

Have a great day, ladies.

Shaden

My W and I had our best weekend together in a long time. I think the anger I showed on Thursday, together with her opening up and seeing that I am still here and still love her, as well as everything else that has been going on recently is finally starting to move things forward.

Our boys were at a sleepover birthday party on Saturday night, so we went on a date... the best night out together in so long. We relaxed and talked... had some discussion about the A and R... but we both were able to pull back from it if we felt it was leading to a point of wrecking the evening.

We also talked late into the night last night. The rest of the weekend was a lot of normal time spent doing things together or as a family.

I'm afraid to even think it, let alone say it... but could we be past the worst part and now into starting the recovery stage?

I was able to say that as long as I know that she wants to be with me and to make this work, then I know that what happened can be a thing of the past. Saturday was the first day that I was able to think about the A without a huge amount of sadness accompanying my thoughts.

I explained to her that she is correct, this will always be something that is a part of our marriage in the future, but, just like any other huge event (like a death in the family), it will eventually get to the point where we are not thinking about it for days or weeks at a time. When we do think about it, there may be sadness... just like when we think about a loved one who has passed on... but those thoughts eventually will become much less often as we replace those thoughts with new, happier memories of our life together.

I think she is starting to believe that maybe this albatross will not always have to be the focus of our future... that we can get past it.

I hope so.

I couldn't have gotten this far without the fantastic support from friends on this site. Thanks.

Shaden

Now that I am feeling hope, I think I need to get my SIL on here.

I believe, from what I've heard about, that her common-law husband is having an A. This thinking was finally topped off with a "business trip" he just went on to Chicago last weekend... he apparently missed his flight back into Canada because the FBI wanted to check him out... he has a very common name. This sounded a little fishy to me. There has been a lot more happening between them prior to this that had me thinking... but this story was a little too much.

The family is going to start all over going through this.

Shaden

Yes Shaden...the FBI thing is very suspicious.

I live in Detroit and have crossed over to Windsor, ON often. The Border Patrol is a division of US Immigration and not the FBI. In the airports we have the TSA (I think it stands for Transportation Security Administration). I am pretty certain the TSA is a division of the Homeland Securtiy Administration.

The FBI getting involved at the airport would be more like the FBI put his name on a list and the TSA pulled him aside for questioning. But the FBI would not be at the airport and he would likely have no idea he was on some FBI list. They have TSA interrogation rooms at the airport and he should have been able to clear up the confusion in no time with the TSA not the FBI. If he missed his flight they would have sent him out on a later flight.

Sounds really fishy to me.

Mr. W