Its too bad that she has hurt you so bad. I personally think you should just let that cheatin woman go. She wasnt meant to be your wife. The two of you are done with this part of your life, and you need to dust yourself off, take from all this mess the good that you can, whatever that is and remember, if its not meant to be, well then it wont be. Just LET IT GO! You cannot control how someone acts, only how you react. She wasnt your soul mate, and you should thank your lucky stars that she showed her true colors now and not later. You will never be able to change what she did and neither can she. Its done. You will look back at all this in five years and be thankfull that it ended, because you will have moved on to something better. "Life isnt worth living until you find someone worth dying for.." and Im sorry bud, but it looks like she wasnt the one. You deserve better, and as soon as you start thinking that way then you will find BETTER. Sounds like she lost a ****** of a guy!! Good luck to U [color:"blue"] [/color]

Hey Lem,

I agree that what happened today was anything but a good thing. I'm angry that she'd just show up here after I didn't immediately respond to her phone calls.

Back to the Plan A/B issue: I think another point that SH made was that since WW left almost immediately after d-day, I haven't had any chance to do any normal Plan A goodness. A successful Plan B is largely dependent on a good Plan A (in my limited understanding), and I haven't had a good Plan A.


I see this, too. I'm trying to figure out if W is anywhere in there under the WW exterior.

Dude:

I am gonna try and not give you to much "opinion" because although I really hope the best for you, I am afraid that anything I say is going to be misinterpreted by you and others as ruining your Plan A...I don't want that. You are paying some heavy duty cash for the advice you have been given, so you should see that through...

Goodluck

Lem

butterflykisses,

I respectfully disagree (at this point in time, at least). My W is an intelligent, beautiful, funny, caring woman... to whom I didn't give enough attention or affection in the time that we were together. Did I know that I wasn't giving her enough attention or affection? No, she never told me. We didn't ever do a very good job of communicating our feelings to each other either.

My WW is an uncaring, inconsiderate, manipulative she-monster. I'm not ready yet to give up on my W. Maybe at some point I will be ready to move on and give up on ever seeing the woman I married again, but not yet.

I'm young and there are other fish in the sea, but I don't want any of those other fish. I heard this term on TV the other night "serial monogamist." I think this describes me. Thinking about going out and dating someone makes me physically ill. I'm married until I'm not married anymore. I'm not breaking my vows. If she decides to divorce me, then I'll cross that bridge when I get there.

That's enough from me for now. But anyway that's my point: I'm not ready to move on. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Lem, I don't have much of a plan A anyway as it stands, so don't worry about messing anything up. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Don't worry about me misinterpreting anything either... I might, but who cares? I think too often a logical discussion of issues gets shouted down in this forum. I might have even done that to you myself. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> But I certainly welcome your input. I admit to being too close to my own situation to be objective about it.

[color:"#01BB1E"]ncn[/color]

ncn,

Since you two are so young and there are no kids involved, it might be a good idea to just bail. I know this is MB, but you are too young and too early in your marriage, I surmise, to be dealing with this. Just a thought.

I believe in the value of my marriage; even it's young with no children.

I'm aware of the option to bail out, but I'm not ready for that yet. Under different circumstances, I could see myself giving someone else the same advice. Under other circumstances, most people would say that if you spouse cheats, you should divorce them. However, many people here know that divorce isn't always the best option. I don't think that children or time married are the only criteria under which marital recovery should be considered.

I hear and respect the opinions of those who say otherwise, and perhaps I will one day feel differently. I'm taking a shot at saving my marriage, and I'm aware of the consequences. I'm willing to risk the loss of several months of being single for the possibility (small as it may be) of saving my marriage to the woman I love.

ncn,
Normally I support couples trying to rebuild their marriages when they are harmed by infidelity. And I understand your need to be monogomous (sp?).

Where I split on the issue with you is on the subject of children.

Since you don't have children yet, thank God, your wife's actions aren't hurting the helpless innocents. That she would be deceptive, duplicitous and weak so early in your marriage should make you fearful for the children you could have together in the future.

I see you defending fidelity, defending the woman you love against the criticisms of MB posters. Defending monogomy because you are faithful. All very worthy, very admirable.

And foolish as long as you both are capable of becoming pregnant.

Read Formerly GG's thread, Gramns thread, and others who have children being harmed by infidelity. GG's boys are grown up and married themselves, yet they are suffering the pain of their mother's infidelity toward their father. Gramn has a helpless 2 year old daughter who he doesn't want in the presence of his wife's lover.

Think 3 years into the future. Imagine yourself with a 2 year old daughter. Imagine her being asleep in a room of the apartment where your wife and her lover are having sex or even just cuddling. Would you want your baby exposed to such a thing?

I'm not saying to start dating other women. You have too much character, too much respect for the institution of marriage to do that. I'm saying you have a clear sign of your wife's character. Do you want to risk making babies with a person who is so easily influenced?

The mother of your children must be the angel at the door swinging a fiery sword to keep the children safe from harm. I believe it is harmful of Gramn's wife to allow a man who is not the father of her child to come into the house and engage in an affair.

Your wife has already shown who she is.

I don't know either one of you. I don't hate her; I don't love you. I'm just writing to you to encourage you NOT to stay with a woman who has betrayed you.

Bellevue

Coincidentally, we have no plans to have children. This is a good one. W's mother had several problems with all three of her pregnancies. My wife is very slight of figure, and expressed before our marriage her desire to never have children.

Consequently, I ended up having a vasectomy in the months leading up to our marriage; a choice that I'm now questioning (quite understandably, I think).

Anyway, this is about me and W only. Any risk that I'm taking is a risk to me only and not any potential children. I don't know what your views are if there is no potential for children.

One thing of which I've become convinced by reading on this site is that infidelity is not an absolute indicator of one's character. Otherwise good people have affairs. This, of course, doesn't relieve them of accountability for their poor decisions. I'll write more later.

Is the vasectomy reversible?

I admire you and I think you are doing the right thing by giving her a chance to do the right thing. I disagree, however, if you believe that leaving your WW because of her infidelity would entail that you do not believe in the value of marriage. I believe the two notions are separate. Nonetheless, I think you are doing the right thing...for now.

Wow....can't say I ever heard that one before. I thank you for being able to share this information with us, as it certainly helps me understand where you are coming from and what your "psyche" about all of this is potentially about.

I gots no advice for you...just alot of wished luck.

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Lem...you may well be right......I don't think I should be giving any advice at this point....I should stick to support <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />.....sorry ncn...I guess my own hope's of my H talking to me were really shining through there <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />........

All the best....

Daisy

WD:

Please don't read anymore into what I said to you. I did not comment as to whether you should give advice or not, surely I am not anyone who has a right to say this.

I was simply disagreeing with your "take" on things....nothing more.....heck, I think I have probably disagreed with every long time poster here at one time or or the other... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Support is garnered in many different ways here, please do not misunderstand what I was saying.

Take care

Lem

Lem,
I did not <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />!!! We can disagree....I will continue posting.....I was saying that more to myself than you <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />...

Hey, that is the trouble with writing....I really thought my big <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> face was clear that I had not misundertood you....

I just don't want to give anyone false hopes.....

Daisy

WD:

I am a little slow here....I think were all on the same page though.....sometimes the forum creates more misunderstanding.

It is all good. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

LM

Yeah, forums like this certain have the ability to cause misunderstandings... and the appearance of misunderstandings; even when none exist.

I realize that I might just be setting my self up for a bunch of pain -- but I'm already in a bunch of pain. I appreciate the support of everyone here; even if you don't support my decisions or the reasons behind my decisions.

I do want to hear thoughts from anyone who wants to share their thoughts with me. My wife moved out just 2 months ago. The exposure I've done is just starting to take effect. I think if for nothing else than the effort I've already put in, it is too early to just cut and run from my marriage. She has had scarcely more than a few hours without direct contact with OM since she moved out of our apartment. I'm sure that they are heavily reinforcing the poor decisions of the other. I know that OM is suffering from depression. I'm sure WW and OM are starting to LB all over the place. It's possible that WW might just be an evil person, and I might be lucky to be rid of her. But I don't see the harm in waiting a few more months for her affair to crumble before I make that determination for myself.

I guess I would like to know if anyone thinks that it's a horrible thing to wait just a few months to see what happens. Even if WW is the devil incarnate, the worst that happens is that I end up divorced and in pain.

I know that I'm biased, but that doesn't mean that I don't want to discuss my decisions with you fine, friendly folks. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

So, as always any advice is welcome. But know that I realize that (seemingly) most people think that I should dump WW and start over.

I hate rambling on like this in a serious tone, so if anyone wants to make fun of me, please fire away -- Here's some fodder: I'm 26 years old and an undergraduate in college. I'm pursuing a bachelor's degree in mathematics, and am a bit of a nerd... but a cool nerd. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> I'm probably going to end up teaching high school math for a while... while I decide what I want to be when I grow up.

I have a bachelor's degree in psychology from another school that I've never put to good use. I think I'm basically just going to start a collection of bachelor's degrees. If I stay in school for the rest of my life, I never have to pay back student loans. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Hmmm, but I think there is a limit on the total amount of loan money you can receive, so I'd better start applying for assistantships.

I think if my marriage does dissolving, I'll probably just head straight to grad school in something like mathematics, or psychology, or maybe educational philosophy... or educational psychology.

Sorry, I thought I'd change the subject.

[color:"#01BB1E"]ncn[/color]

Thank God you had the vasectomy. It does change things in my mind.

I still think that having an affair shows weakness of character. When one partner has an affair, they can redeem themselves and their character afterwards, if they see the error of their ways. (Come out of the fog, that is.) And if they apologize, admit their mistake, and do their utmost to repair the damage.

Otherwise, their character stays right where it was when they made the bad decision. And they don't grow or mature.

If my STBXH came to me and said "I did wrong; I see now that I was just as unfaithful by chosing her over you as if we had gotten naked in a hotel room; I want you and my family back and I'm willing to do whatever I have to to achieve that" I would consider that he was serious, if he wrote a "no contact letter" and sent it, likewise.

As long as no little-uns are at risk, I really understand your wish to work on your marriage and I applaud your courage.

ncn....

You are funny! It's your thread....do as you will! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I will throw in my 2 cents since I believe you asked for it <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />. It's been 7 months since H left. I am much closer to throwing in the towel than I was 2 months in. I am not dealing with your situation....don't know at all what that is like....I got a lot of suspecions etc....but nothing what you got....you know there is OM....you may or may not want to wait it out....I can tell you that for me as time goes on it gets harder and harder to hold on......the hope for me is dying day by day <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />....and that is why I think I am in more pain now....I just refuse to accept something that is probably the case <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />....

I want to move on....live in peace....but I cannot 7 months in let go off an opportunity to see my H. Saw him tonight....just a regular day....I really hate the goodbuys...they are so akward! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> It is a lot of standing by the car "well, ok, see you later, etc" stuff.....painful yet I keep at it..... believe me I understand not wanting to give up.....

Good luck in your studies.....hope you are able to do well given what is happening in your personal life....I find my work suffers....but enough about me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />!

Daisy

Ha! Someone could take offense to that quote if they were to take it out of context. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[color:"#01BB1E"]ncn[/color]