NTMO - I said that the widow situation was not applicable here, but since you want to compare a MORAL situation (woman, mother of a child, with a legitimate, legally and morally binding covenant marriage, widowed and pregnant) - there are no comparisons.

First of all - there is no MM to be a third wheel in any marriage I might get into in the future - with you - there's always going to be THAT spectre for an honest man to have to figure in.

Second of all, I am not keeping resources from a man's legitimate children by keeping my husband's and my child.

Third - with the other two things out of the way, I'm available to engage in a moral courtship with a good single man who can be a legitimate father to another man's child in good conscience. Happens all the time. And the child gets TWO parents - the role of father is not minimized or diminished by visitation or custody battles or child support.

Kayla I have no idea what your talking about widow. Please enlighten me.

Second of all, you can't possibly tell me that all the woman in this world that is either divorced or otherwise are bad parents? If that is your opinion, so be it. I disagree with you.

Aprently I don't know your story as your confussing me. Sorry just being honest.

If you want to start talking morals feel free. You can get ask nutshell how to reach me as she knows and this is not the place for the type of conversation your asking me to engage into.

It's one thing to have an opinion, it's quite another to judge someone because there marriage did not work out, or becuase they choose to have children versus killing them. That too is an old arguement.

Not judging NTMO - You will always have MM in your life because you are tied to him financially so any man who gets involved with you is going to have to deal with that. A widow doesn't have that when she gets into a new relationship.

Divorced women have a challenge; there will always be a complication of another man who is ALIVE in their new relationship - it makes parenting difficult. EMAs are a complication that has emotional baggage that goes beyond that level of baggage with step parenting.

There is a good reason to follow a strict moral code NTMO - you probably know that now, but many/most of the women on TOW have to deny-deny-deny to keep their conscience from hurting too much.

***edit***

Wow, this tread is all over the place. I read this forum to see what could have been. I am a male FWS and I am just so lucky that I am not in this situation.

About culpability. Of course the MM and the OW are both responsible for agreeing to put so many people’s lives at risk for serious harm, courting both financial and emotional ruin. I don't think anyone is arguing that. Unless someone was raped they both freely gave of themselves. They both made that decision. If the OW gets pregnant, then the MM’s voice into the direction of decisions is over. He really has no say to the outcome of this progeny. That, to my mind, isn't fair, but the affair was the epitome of unfair to begin with.. If the OW wishes to keep the baby against the MM's wishes, should he be compelled to support a child he doesn't want? As a society I guess we have decided the resounding answer is “yes”. Someone is going to have to support this child, why the OW can’t is beyond me. If it isn't the biological father then it will probably be the State, and the State doesn't want more on the welfare rolls that it already has.

I can see how some FBS put more blame on the OW then on their H. I think it is natural. They have a history with their H, they have kids, they have dreams of a future. They have nothing with the OW, the focus of the unfairness of these situations are often directed there. Plus, sometimes the MM just was manipulated, not all the time, but sometimes. You know, when people have affairs they really aren't all that honest, duh? My OW said that she was on the pill and that she was tested and is probably infertile. Both turned out to be untrue. I think she really wanted to be impregnated by me and I can almost guarantee it wasn’t because I was just so [email]d@mn[/email] hot. I make good money and I’m sure that that was part of the appeal. Anyway, it is just dumb luck that my family isn't dealing with an OC. My heart goes out to all the women here that have had to cleanup after their husband’s [email]cr@p.[/email] I hurt my wife enough with the affair. I don’t know how you all deal with the day to day repercussions of these two very selfish people.

My comments to the originator of this post is to protect yourself in every LEGAL way possible. If it involves moving assets and changing names on deeds then do it if it is LEGAL to do so in your state. If you need to file for a separation and file for CS to protect your husband's assets from an avaricious OW then do so. If you need to put an addition on the house (sort of a mother-in-law's suit) to establish separate residences then do so if it is LEGAL. Get a listing of attorneys from your local bar association and interview a few that specialize in family law and estate planning. Don’t be cheap here, get the most experienced attorney that you can find, consider the outrageous fees as an investment in your kid’s financial future. Someone has to look out for your kid’s best interest. Sadly, H and the OW weren’t really doing that were they?

Thank you Comfortably Numb on bringing the otherside's thinking out in the open. I believe MOST MM feel as you've written. Too bad the OW's don't get the BIG picture.

I believe, that not so much we as a society, say "someone" is going to support the child, which as we all know for the most part falls on the man - married or not.

The state/federal governments (which in a sense is us) don't want the burden on the taxpayers. Let's face it, it's a proven fact with studies, statistics etc. that single mothers are more often than not on the public roles in one form or fashion at one time or another.

There are also studies done on CS being paid. Those studies show that men who are forced by the court to pay excessive amounts of CS don't pay and don't see their children. On the other hand, set the CS amount reasonably and they pay and also see their children.

So, OW read and weep and continue on with the whining and drama. take out your fangs and claws because it certainly is getting you somewhere.

OW TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR ACTIONS AND YOUR DECESIONS.

ForeverDamaged, you're geting some very good advice here.

Justuss ... thank you <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hi there, some of you might remember me as findingmywayback. I had to create a new log in because of the changes to the site. I never could figure out how to use my old one.

Anyway, what your H's OW is doing is so wrong. I feel for you and your family. If only you could have seen this coming and filed first.

I am a FWS but I do not think the same as those who have come here to argue their point with you. You do what you need to (legally of course) to protect your family and do not lose any sleep over it. She does not care about you or your family, her past actions have shown that loud and clear.

Like inanutshell stated, you will get excellent advise here. Please ignore the naysayers, they are only taking out their personal losses on you.

PS - for anyone who is interested, my little one is doing great. He's almost 9 months and the most smiley happy little guy. I'm enjoying him tremendously. (BTW, he's not an OC, he's the product of me and my H, planned for even! lol) He is totally in love with his daddy, and vice versa.

9 months old is so cute!!! How fun. I have teenagers and all the fun......and the angst, and drama that goes with them!!

DO NOT EVER EVER EVER SEND THE OW YOUR HUSBANDS MEDICAL HISTORY. NO NO NO NO NO. Who on earth would even consider this????????????????????????? DON'T DO IT.

If the husband has some medical condition, then HE can discuss it with the DOCTOR. NOT THE OW. The Doctor can NOT discuss personal information. If it is a serious hereditary condition, that could be discussed, but NEVER SHOW THEM MEDICAL RECORDS. Good lord.

Get the laywer and talk every situation out with your husband. Decide what it is you want and go for it. A given is child support, that is obvious. So don't even think of getting out of it totally. Waste of time. You CAN find legal ways to protect finances, that is where your energies can be. Once this is all done and in place, move on. Go and live your life. You deserve happiness and peace. Do not fret. Move forward. Far worse things can (and will) happen in your lifetime. Dont waste a good day worrying about things you can't control. Control what you can (you, your finances, etc) and move on with your life. By having legal documents drawn up now, will protect you a year from now when ow decides she wants this, or she wants that. Make it CLEAR that she can't contact you at all, or make it clear that she can only contact you in (whatever way you chose). Then stick with it. Get the details taken care of now and MOVE ON. Go and live your life.

Things to discuss and consider about your future.

After you get the laywer look into the following:

1. Insurance. The courts may ask that provide insurance for oc. It is easier for the courts to say that. However, 50% is 50%. We only had to be responsible for 50% of OC bills. PERIOD.

2. Childcare. If ow is working ft, then 50% of that may be asked for. Make SURE it is with a facility and not her mother or sister, or whatever. It is YOUR money, check into it. Also, make sure ow IS working FT.

3. Child Support. Never send an OW a personal check. Send a money order, and keep all copies in your oc file. We opened an account at ow bank an the money was withdrawn from our accoung and entered into hers. She did not have access to our account number. She certainly did not have access to our real accounts. And NEVER BE LATE with cs. It will serve you well in the future. Courts don't really care about anyone in these situations. As long as the legal side is taken care of, they really don't bother with the emotions of it. If/when you have need to go before the court, you do not want to be the one causing "legal" problems. They really do frown on the wasted court time, let her be the one wasting their time. Not you.

4. Legal Separation and Property. Make sure that this is all legal. What you and your husband choose to do, with your separation is none of ow business. Just make sure it is legal.

Understand that ow are vindicitve, angry and bitter. They are NOT looking out for what is best for you or your children. They don't care. So be aware of exactly what you are dealing with. Prepare for the worst at all times.

YOU HAVE RIGHTS TOO. Like it or not, ow will come to realize that their child is not a weapon and the courts will slap them silly with costs if they start their games.

Want contact with oc? OW have no choice at all. If the father wants to participate in raising oc, she can't say no.

No contact? She can't force it on anyone.

Want contact with oc and not ow? That can be arranged too and ow can't do a thing.

OW really have no power at all over your life. They have no voice in what you choose and it drives them nuts. They will play the "for the child" card until the cows come home. If they were so "for the child" why were they partipating in an affair with a married man???? She certainly was't for "his children" was she? So dont ever forget what you are dealing with. This is YOUR LIFE. YOUR MARRIAGE. You live it way YOU CHOSE.

Boy ... now THAT is good solid practical advice!!

Good job LynnG <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Amen, I second that pepperband! Excellent advice. If I were you I would print it out and read it again when you are feeling unsure of yourself.

The child/any child should have all medical history both sides
the mother's and the fathers medical history,NEVER SAID records, you never kow what may happen in any child's life. To not have it in any child's medical history is WRONG!! I feel even adoptees and even sperm donated should have a medical history w/o the names of the adoptees natuaral parent's or donor of course.
My H is adopted and we are trying to get some medical history for him for the sake of all 3 kids, we don't know if there's a medical time bomb,mental illess or other medical condtion's and really don't want to be suprised later;we have been trying to find this long before ow/oc even in the picture.
To not have it is too cruel, and just wrong morally!!!
IMHO it's as bad as abusing a child or even an adult.
If there is NC you would never need to be contacted about a medical emergancy unless it is an extreme situatuion.
All doctors want a person's COMPLETE medical history.
IE.. is there a history of this this or that, and when you go the first time and other time's they have you fill out medical history in your paperwork and at times will ask you for it one on one.
To not have it for bothsides of your family is just cruel to/for any human being.

When you sift through the various responses you will get on this site, please use a critical eye to filter out useless static that puts you off your purpose ... and put any advice written to you to the litmus test ---> Is the advice I am getting focused on my personal recovery, or my family unit's recovery, or on my our marriage recovery???

If the advice seems to be focused on and more concerned with conditions and persons ~outside~ your marriage/family relationship ... be less inclined to give that advice as much weight as stuff that helps you and yours.

Sorry about TJ.
Those who feel giving medical history is wrong. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
I pray to GOD, no one in your family(s) ever adopts a child or is impregnated by a sperm donor. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
************EDIT************
My post was also about my own kids and I stated that.
***************EDIT************

If the advice seems to be focused on and more concerned with conditions and persons ~outside~ your marriage/family relationship ... be less inclined to give that advice as much weight as stuff that helps you and yours.

I challange all to read my post/new thread Medical History, and to respond only as I asked to.

~~~~~~~OW really have no power at all over your life. They have no voice in what you choose and it drives them nuts. They will play the "for the child" card until the cows come home. If they were so "for the child" why were they partipating in an affair with a married man???? She certainly was't for "his children" was she? So dont ever forget what you are dealing with. This is YOUR LIFE. YOUR MARRIAGE. You live it way YOU CHOSE.


Remember it goes both ways. She has no power over you and you have no power over her.

As long as both parties are doing what they are suppose to do then really there should be no problems and everyone should be able to live there lives to the fullest! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Kayla again that is your opinion. Even with a widow sitution is you have inlaws to deal with so everywhere you look you've got people to deal with.

The way I look at it and it's my opinion, it's life. 8 times out of 10 the mm has no relationship with the child anyway so if that is the case there is no mm to deal with. If there is normaly a wife of his involved so really again, what is the issue.

As far as a divorced person. It's just life. In just about every stitch in life it is how you deal with it yourself. Example, my husband is living with his girlfriend. I have no problems with her at all. She loves my kids and is very good to them. She stays out of stbxh's business and mine and even if she gives him her opinion the bottom line is it's between him and I when dealing with our kids. I've told him that if he is working if she wants to drop them off fine I don't care. He chooses her not too for whatever reason.

There is no reason to have it that much of a burden. I see it as if it is then someone is very immature and needs to grow up.

If someone I date does not like the fact that my kids have a father and he comes to pick them up and drop them off or I drop them off then apprently that person is not the person that needs to be in my life. Or my kids life.

I expect anyone I date to RESPECT the role of my kids father being there father. I'm defintly not looking for a man to be my kids father or support us. They have a father and I support us.

Things happen in life. You can't turn them back. Sometimes they work out sometimes they just can't be worked out. So for that the person needs to be punished for the rest of there life?

As well, I'm at the age that any man of my age that is divorced is more than likely gonig to have kids himself. So it goes back to the fact that we all have baggage of some kind to deal with and accept. If were not willing to accept then move on with your life. It really was not meant to be.

No one is saying the OC's doctor should denied important information.

One more thing, as far as the will goes, I think you should do something like LynnG did. That can't try to say they were left out, they just didn't get what they wanted.

When my mom died about 5 yrs ago, her H at the time sued us over the will. She had terminal cancer and went very quickly. They doctor told her to get her affairs in order. She changed her will and tried to dis-inherit her H. They were separated, but had not filed. Anyway, she changed it to where all her assets were to be split between her D's. Well, when we spoke with lawyers over this they said it is not possible to dis-inherit a spouse, especially not in a community property state. I think he could have lived in her house indefinitely but not owned it and we would have had to pay the principal on the note or something like that. He did say is possible to dis-inherit children or other family members. Children are guaranteed NOTHING, unless they person has no will, that changes everything. I've heard of some rich people donating all their money to charity in their will because they want the kids to earn their own money.

Could someone sue and get what they want, yes it's possible. It costs a lot of money to sue. They would look like the money hungry jerks they are IMO.


And what do you think of OW with OC who demand the xMM pay for college tuition? Don't you think that stretching it a bit? I mean, not everyone can even afford college for the kids of the M. Why should being an OC be your ticket to a free education??