Yeah, and then realize that the man with the full and challenging life typically has no intent to spend 15 hours a week of undivided time with you, spend time in deep conversations with you, or do lots of recreation with you. He has a full and busy life, after all...

I know we are generalizing, but once again we are looking at the impossibility of having it all - a man with a full and challenging and busy life is unlikely to be able to indulge in all the stuff Harley preaches as necessary for a good marriage; and man who would be able to devote that kind of time and energy to a relationship is apparently considered boring, wimpy, or not having a life...

No wonder women who like "bad boys" complain that their men don't give them enough attention, and yet get bored with a guy who does...

I still say that generalization is pointless. There are plenty of women who want excitement, and plenty of women who want a deep and meaningful relationship, without feeling that they are missing out on life. I know I mesh very well with the latter, and not at all with the former. But to say "women want 'fill in the blank'" is silly, because women are not all the same. The key to successful dating and relationships is knowing what qualities you have, what qualities you want in your partner, and finding a partner who is compatible with you. Not making yourself fit some mold, or looking for a partner who fits a stereotypical mold.

AGG

Full and busy doesn't equate to overloaded and unable to choose a meaningful relationship if you want one. I see what your point is, but pretending you're arguing in response to mine is dishonest since you're arguing against something I never said.


Horsepucky. Life can be full, challenging, and busy without being crammed to the gills. And if you want to argue "and man who would be able to devote that kind of time and energy to a relationship is apparently considered boring, wimpy, or not having a life..." go ahead, but don't pretend you're arguing it rebuttal or response to something I said, because that's dishonest.


More of the same: If you want to make that wildly overgeneralized statement, fine, but do it on your own -- posting as a reply or response to something I said is dishonest since it has nothing to do with anything I said.


Ok, why are you doing so much of it then?


You seem to think they're mutually exclusive, which would certainly be an error.


That's mostly obvious enough.

Huh? "Pretending to argue"? "Dishonest"? Are you reading something other than what I wrote?

I think you should reread what I said. I never said what you "pretended" I said above, so I guess I should now say that you are being dishonest because you are arguing with something I didn't say?

Where did I say that "full and busy equates to being overloaded"? Or did you make that part up, making you, ahem, dishonest??? I said that the man with the full and busy life will typically not be able to have the time to devote to a relationship. That was my opinion. You may choose to disagree. But I never said that one equates the other, as if it were some scientific fact, so please do not attribute to me what I did not say, especially if you are then going to call me dishonest for saying what I did not say.

You and I disagree on whether men who lead busy and challenging lives will typically be able to devote much time to relationships. I am fine with disagreeing. But leave the "dishonesty" label out of this difference of opinion. And if you are going to call people dishonest, try not be dishonest yourself by misrepresenting what they said.

AGG

BREEEEEEETT!!!

(Makes a "T" with both his hands)

Time out, you two....


Let's not allow this to degenerate into a squabble...because I, for one, am interested in the original topic at hand, namely how to raise one's "social price" - whatever that encompasses.

I feel like I am just now starting to catch my stride as it were...or to become somewhat self-actualized, to borrow a term. I think this process, whether you term it self-actualization, raising one's Social Price, or just thinking you are all that and a bag of chips...has helped me look at life much more differently than I may have ever done had these unfortunate events never unfolded before me.

Doesn't the fact that you are much more in touch with yourself, and therefore able to connect on many deeper levels than before, automatically raise your Social Price?

If so, then isn't the process of A's, D's, and the recovery thereof, a benefit to us, in the long term? Doesn't it help us to become more self-actualized?



I hope I am not seeming too rambling, it has been a long night, and I am off to bed...just some thoughts.

TM

I think there are two separate concepts being discussed here.

The first is becoming the best person you can be, of which I am totally supportive. I think that this is the concept that you (TravellinMan) are referring to when you ask:

"Doesn't the fact that you are much more in touch with yourself, and therefore able to connect on many deeper levels than before, automatically raise your Social Price?".

My answer would be "no", because if you read the "Social Price" article, it has little to do with really being a better person and more to do with marketing yourself.

The reason I think the whole "raising your price" is mostly fluff is because it is all about hooking someone, and like I said earlier, it may lead to giving your potential mate the wrong impression of you. That is great if all someone is after is sex <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />, but for the longterm, I still believe in just being yourself and not worrying too much about how you market yourself.

Really, the authors of the article say the same thing, in the end (my emphasis added):


I don't want to be divorced again, so I will keep my sales pitch to a minimum, and hopefully avoid my partner having buyer's remorse <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

AGG

AGG -

A good point, and something for me to consider before I jump into the dating pool, or as some may think it, the dating swamp. But I wonder how many of the changes that are suggested by David et al, can actually become a part of your permanent personality. We are malleable beings, after all.

Now this is not to say become a jerk, but to become more confident, and look at yourself as able to have your pick of women, or at the minimum...NOT thinking you need to do anything to please a woman at any expense - or to put it in David's terms, become a wussy. Maybe I am confusing two different subjects, but the way I presently see it, it is just a matter of degrees...self-confidence to the extreme becomes narcissism.

I think I am intelligent enough to glean information from courses such as David's, and apply them to my way of thinking in a limited way, and still not become somebody I am not. That is, I can learn to change myself - as we all are here presently doing - and not pretend to be someone I am not.

Please correct me if I am somehow way off base here....


TM

I think you're right on target! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> I think you said that very well.

AGG says good stuff too. I certainly don't believe in being fake or trying to be something you're not. The reason I'm interested in this topic, and started that "raising the bar" thread before, is because I noticed a pattern of attracting men I didn't want, and realized I WASN'T attracting men that I truly deserve... and I needed to examine the reasons. I was doing something and/or saying something, that was attracting the wrong ones... and WASN'T doing and saying the things to MOST accurately "sell" the REAL me... my REAL value. The price tag I was wearing was wrong! (And still is... and I'm still working on it!) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

[color:"blue"] Faith,

I found that it was my kindness that attracted the wrong sort of man. The overwhelming need to help someone that doesn't seem able to do for themselves or needs sympathy or always gets "the bad rap".

There is a reason that people need help, sympathy or get tagged with a label. And when they admit it to you they are subtly warning you of their true nature.

I had to learn to pay attention to red flags (first reading a lot of codependency stuff and verbal abuse stuff and control stuff to learn what red flags were), then I had to stifle my own tendency to be kind to and help others.

I'm not trying to say that anyone should be unkind or unwilling to help. What I'm saying is that I had to learn to NOT HELP or BE KIND to the kinds of people that would be bad for me.

That left me open to find a good relationship with someone that wants to please me and respects my boundaries. It's not perfect but I think it has a shot. He is a very good man.

I once had an office mate who I told that I had this big neon sign on my forehead that attracted all the wrong sorts of men. We had a coworker with serious mental problem (probably OCD or schizophrenic (sp?). Anyway, at first I didn't understand how deep his problems ran and thought he might be shy, so I tried to smile and greet him whenever I saw him. Then when I started to get a clue, I remained polite. He would talk to no one. Except me. In the past I might have tried to cultivate him thinking he just needed a sympathetic ear or whatever, but in the end I had to cut him off - he came to me helpless about ordering something for work that should have been simple to do for himself. I saw the future in that moment and simply turned him away with a "look in the catalogue". My office mate who witnessed these exchanges could not believe that this guy who would talk to no one would only interact with me. She finally saw that I spoke the truth about the neon sign.

The changes I made were in my own behaviors - pretending I thought I was higher socially priced than my esteem believed until I actually believed it myself.

That is how artificially raising your social price can help. You fake it until you make it. If you tell yourself you are worth everything you deserve to have eventually you will get those things because your demeanor changes with the belief that you create in yourself.

V. [/color]