Faithful,

There has been a lot of good info for you in these replies...some stuff to think about definately.

Let me share a bit...

After my wife and I reconciled (we both had A's) our church approached us about giving our testimony to our church. At first it was quite scary to think about doing that. Not too many people knew aside from a couple of the pastor's and close friends and to share that in front of hundreds of people scared the he|| out of us.

We prayed and talked about it and decided to do it. The church video taped us seprately and then edited together a 10 minute montage of our conversations and showed it in both our services on A sunday on 15 ft screens in our auditorium. They say the camera adds 10lbs....you should see what a drive-in movie screen adds <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Turns out there were a lot of people in our congregation that had been through or were going through something similar. People came to us thanking us for sharing and giving them hope. That testimony led to us talking about forgiveness and reconcilliation in our church's Divorce Care class and eventually starting our own marriage ministry.

We have been extremely blessed by all of this and had many opportunities to share our story with other couples. Aside from that, our marriage is an example to our daughter on what effect God, prayer and a supportive church family can have on two flawed and selfish people that were my wife and I.

You'll know when the right time is.

God Bless,

Doug

AD...

My daughter did know in "clear and straight forward explanations" what her father was doing. Any kindergartener knows adultery (in the basic concept) is wrong. What complicated the situation that his drinking became increasing worse during the affair. He would tell her things too clear and straight forward while he was drunk. She wasn't told too little, she learned far too much. It's sad but the first man she saw naked was not her husband but her father.

It's easy to "diagnose" the problems in other people's lives without knowing the facts. I never said anything about "secrets." My point was the age of the child was delicate and great care must be taken.

As they say, when one assumes...

jph,

I'm sorry to touch upon such a painful matter in your life. I'm sure all of this was devestating to you on many levels.

I don't know you or your daughter, but I do know that there is a law of cause and effect - and it seemed to me that your daughter's fear of her father was unlikely to be derived from his affair alone.

Now that you've shed more light on the subject, wouldn't you agree that her fear of her father was most likely related to the fact that he exposed himself to her while he was drunk? (likely a criminal offense) That seems a much more likely cause than the affair itself - or knowledge of it.

-AD

FF,

My firm belief that honesty and openness even on sensitive matters is best for the children was boosted considerably by reading that book (or one by the same name at least, he seems to have two similar books).

In our situation, there is a more pressing secret.

My XW was adopted. Now DD understands that babies come out of their Mama's tummy. She understands relationships. She told her mom the other day "I'm going to grow up and have a baby girl named Emily, and you will be Emily's grandmother and papa will be Emily's granddad."

So, lately she's been saying "Mama, when you were born, you came out of grandma's tummy and she gave you milk in a bottle and changed your diapers" etc.

My XW doesn't know what to say. I'm pressing her to explain adoption to our daughter. Her hesitance comes from a number of fears
1) She was adopted internationally from a currently unpopular country. She doesn't want DD to identify herself (or her Mom) with that country or it's people.
2) She doesn't want DD to worry about losing her birthmother and having to be adopted herself.

A secret leaves a hole in the story. Either it will be filled with lies or filled with guesses. When later in life the truth is discovered, it can be devestating to have to make the adjustment.

-AD

**********edit*************

You want to come clean about an A that happened long ago?

*******edit************

You are asking for trouble.

***********edit**************

pieta,

Notice the title of this thread....Question for my Christian friends. Your post was neither Christian or friendly but maybe you picked the wrong thread or are just having a bad day. I would like to think that is the case rather than you just being mean for the he|| of it..

....or...

....Maybe the thread struck a nerve with you. I'll follow your train of thought on this one....


You want to come clean about an A that happened long ago?

You're obviously hiding something because you don't believe in confessing/coming clean of long past infidelities.

**********edit quote*********.

You feel a little jealous of FF because she's contemplating doing something you can't (or won't) do.

I'm sure God gets really angry when one of his children become a witness to His power and grace when someone chooses to follow his guidance.

BTW...Lot's wife got turned into salt because she didn't listen, not because she did.

*********edit quote*********


WTH???? Maybe you could turn us on to the Doc you use to get you meds.

We've never tapped danced in my church but we did have some Hawiian stick dancing and ballroom dancing onec or twice.

God Bless,

Doug

Thank you, Doug. I will not respond to this poster.

No prob faithful...plenty would have done the same. I just beat them to it.

God Bless,

Doug

Thank you, too Justuss! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

FF, I'm certain that you have some pretty great testimony about God's unending love and forgiveness, gracy & mercy that you can offer to the hurting at your church, that does NOT involve going public with your entire detailed story.
People can fill in the blanks that you learned it somehow, without knowing exactly how.

Other than a confidential spirit-filled adult group (such as Walk to Emmaus or Des Colores, for example) where people's testimonies are explicitly held in confidence by the listeners, I would not share publicly to protect my DDs, I have one close to your DD's age, and I wouldn't want her to be hurt (or mortified and embarrassed at being different, etc the way girls this age are so prone to being!) That's my big issue with potential contact ever with OC, that my older DD would be just mortified. Have you listened to a group of girls that age talk when they don't know you're listening? They chitterchatter about every little thing about themselves, each other, and mutual friends... NO SUBJECT is too small for them to disclose!

Continue to pray about it, God will reveal to you the opportunity that you WON'T have to question in His time.

AD

Fear of him came before the exposure of the affair. She hyperventilated while we at a movie where we left to take her to the ER. She told me later, it was because she had to sit next to him. The affair was going on then but I had no idea. I just knew something was terribly wrong and attributed it to the recent death of his mother.

The first time he exposed himself to her was while we were both in the backyard and he was drunk. He had no idea she or anyone was there. The second time was also while he was drunk and I gave him 3 options at that point...I would file a police report about the matter, I would get a permanent no contact RO or he could leave. He left. I didn't want to further traumatize her with being questioned by police who by experience, I felt would choose to do little to nothing concerning domestic matters.

So again, you see it was the affair and how she was exposed to his insanity because of the affair that led to her fear of him. She was more perceptive than I was to the problem.

As I've said before, if people really knew how much damage having an affair would cause, it would be more rare. He's been gone for 14 months and she met him twice for dinner (Christmas & HIS birthday). If it weren't for college expenses, I doubt she would ever speak to him. She often says me to me, 'I answered his phone call because tuition is due next week.' That's sad.

Todays sermon in church reminded me FF of your questions about confession, forgiveness and I think faith too.

I received a phone call last August from a mother raging from pain because her son was killed in the war. Like her I have known sudden, unbelievable pain like that, which robs us of any sense of security about life.

I often remember how Barbara Bartocci, a prize-winning author left with three young children after her husband was killed in Vietnam, wrote of their “bewildered rage when the underpinnings of life are snatched away”.

I could tell that mother till I was blue in the face that we cannot expect God to change his laws every time the consequences hurt us, that we can’t expect God to give us miracles every time we ask. But it is always hard to respond to a hurting person with these words.

I find myself in her place and then I ask the same question WHY?

Yet I meditate and always find there is a gut level question to ask: What is it we should be praying for if we truly are people of faith in a loving relationship with God? Shouldn’t it be that the two of us – ourselves and our Lord – always will be there for each other in all kinds of situations? Can we believe that God is responding even when we can’t feel it? Maybe in times like this we just aren’t looking for God in the right places.

I remember years ago when I was tormented and sick at heart. God seemed far away, and I prayed for my ordeal to end, for God to show me that he understood the horror of my dark place and still loved me, to take my life so I could stop hurting. Unexpectedly a neighbor came by.

When she saw how distressed I was, she did not try to give me a pep talk or resort to pious platitudes. She simply put her arm around me and cried with me. I knew God had answered my prayer. In the person of my neighbor, God had shown me his love and assured me I would make it out of the darkness.
But the truth is it has taken a long time, I lost my trust in God.

Yet I have to be honest enough to admit that all too often I, like many others, don’t understand God’s ways. I suppose the problem is that we are just human: We all want good, easy, comfortable and successful lives, our husbands and children safe and well, so we pray for the things that make us feel good. But most of us learn that life has something else in store, a rockier road with thistles and thorns.

I have come to recognise a wisdom in this scenario. It can be a way to make us beautiful people who are compassionate, loving, nonjudgmental and gentle. As someone put it: “The heart that breaks is the heart that can contain the world.”

If life is too comfortable, too safe, who needs God? I think faith has much to do with welcoming the blows and setbacks that make us look and act more like the one who made us.

Yet knowing this I too feel lost and I must say near despair at times that the pain and loss of recent years. I struggle, I fall, I fail, yet I get up and do it all over again and again. You see God doesn't reject me for my weakness or humanity. He is always there waiting.

The Trappist Thomas Merton expressed the meaning of faith memorably: “But above all, faith is the opening of an inward eye, the eye of the heart, to be filled with the presence of divine light. Ultimately faith is the only key to the universe. The final meaning of human existence and the answers to questions on which all our happiness depends cannot be reached in any other way.”

To that I say: “Amen!”

Did you know, you can go to any poster's home page by clicking on their name ... and you can then click on the little "ignore this poster" icon ... and voila" .... all their posts are deleted when you read any thread !!!

It's a wonderful thing <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Justuss ????????????

Hilter censored people and see where that got him!

I have never had an affair. I have been happily married to "the boy next door" since the early 1970's. He is a gifted husband and father and I am very lucky. We grew up together, attended the same Catholic day school together. He was an altar boy. I sang in the choir.

Our children attend Catholic Schools.

I think anyone who would even consider doing what this poster wants to do is either menatlly ill or suffers from an inflated sense of his own spirituality.

How much of your spiritual life stems from your own desire to feel better about yourself? Maybe it is the faith I was raised in, but to me the duplicitousness of the heart what is at question here.

A personal experience of identifying with the death of Christ will vary drastically from one individual to the next, but really, folks!

Just like Aaron’s sons who became famous for concocting their own fire for the altar of incense, so do you offer “your utmost for his highest,” never thinking that your devotion to God is somehow based in self-interest.

The error in thinking here is that the Christian Life is about improving yourselves before God. Call it spiritual formation, or the pursuit of holiness, or spiritual growth, or whatever.

Once you remove the usual motivators for piety, like guilt, pride, or rewards, you’ll find it’s like the wind leaving your sails. Or more to the point, it’s like yeast leaving a lump of dough. Only then can you know God.

Like I said, if you need that much attention, tap dance on the Altar. At least you only make yourself look ridiculous!

Pieta, get off my thread. You don't know me nor do you know the context of my questioning. I specifically asked for my two things 1. christians and 2. my friends here

Please take your ramblings elsewhere.

Actually, sweetums

These are not my ramblings. They are the ramblings of Pope John Paul. You can find all his rambling on the Vatican Holy See website.

I just wanted to see if someone would censor a Pope.

I should probably take full credit for the tap dancing on the altar statement. Well, partial credit. I think the spirit of the Holy See (he died recently) "whispered" the "idea" into my head.

As most folks here on MB know, I rarely shrink from a biblical challenge.....Big grin! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

What would you like me to "censor" about his "infallableness?"

Just so you know the "ground rules" that I play by....when there is a difference of opinion betweeen Pope and God, I come down on God's side, not fallable man, regardless of "status" or "rank."

God bless.

Oh, and what website does God himself post on--or does he whisper the "good news" in your ear too.

If you want to get into a discussion on the "biology of transcendance" I would have to say if I was going to pick a human person who was "wired" to hear God, I'd have to go with John Paul not wanna-be Christians who use their faith for self interest.

Easy question and easy to answer, Pieta.

The name of God's "website:" The catholic church (Not just the human construct denomination of "Roman Catholic Church", but the church of all believers), and The Holy Bible is the authoritative guide to members for all teaching, correcting, rebuking, and training in righteousness.

It's open 24/7 to anyone who wishes to enter. To become a member of the "website" there is only one requirement, to accept Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior, renouncing your sins and accepting God's gift of Grace, not of works or merit by any of us.

And yes, Pieta, God "whispers" in my ear every time I open HIS book and read what He has had to say and every time I LISTEN to the "still small voice" of the indwelling HOLY SPIRIT as He counsels me. You DO believe in the indwelling Holy Spirit and HIS ministry to us, don't you?

Pieta, Benedict is our Pope nowadays.

And FYI, I have met faithful follower and spent a few hours with her, her children, and other MB'ers. I think I can define her more accurately than you can. She is a wonderful mother, judging simply from the type of children she has raised, a very sincere and sensitive woman. She is gentle and kind and naturally beautiful.

An exhibitionist who ought to dance on the Altar? No, pieta, you are way off base with that type of comment. FF is actively working to live a Christ centered life.