There is a long-time member here on this board that lives with a partner that has serial As. I suspect her reason for staying in the M are largely financial. If that is so, she would certainly be happier if she would truly accept the situation as it is. After all, she is not willing to make the changes she can either. Her M is never going to be the fulfilling M that she wishes for. Instead of playing the victim, she could empower herself by realizing that she is making a choice, a choice for financial security.

carnation, that does make alot of sense. Everyone feels fear, but we all make the choice about whether or not to let it control us. It is still always a choice. Your point is good that the resultant "comfort zone" is, in reality, no comfort zone at all. Thanks for the nice words. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

"Martyr complex" is very appropros, Bob. Is "sand" the same thing as "cojones?" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

losttranslation wrote:
Agree, she could accept that she is a volunteer, not a victim. It has always baffled me why anyone would WANT to portray themselves as a victim. I think if I were a victim, I wouldn't view it as a condition to advertise as a badge of honor. There is no honor in choosing to be a "victim." ugh!

Good one Mel .... I feel your pain ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> LOL

Today is my specialized clinic day ... a clinic focused on a specific chronic pain condition where I have expertise ... (doesn't the phrase "chronic pain condition" remind you of the pain of being a BS? It does me.)

and this clinic has helped me so much in my personal life ... I tell the clients that I will mirror their own commitment and efforts. I promise I will never give up as long as I see them doing the program. If they don't put effort into it, I will also promise I will equal that level of non-effort and non-commitment as well.

It keeps me honest ... because I say this up front .... and if they just come in to complain and not to work the program, I remind them ... of my promise. "I will put as much into this as you put into this."

I tell them I am their partner and guide, but without their effort, nothing happends. This works for me. This keeps me sane. This ~also~ keeps me from getting angry at anyone who chooses only to complain. I just listen. There is some therapeutic value in ~just listening~ ... as long as I keep ~my~ expectations in check .... at their level of commitment.

Hope this helps.

I would like to live "that way" but I don't have enough money. If you would like to help, just make your checks out to "campers and sportsman headquarters - or you can abbreviate that as CASH and send it to ..............

It's Friday, what can I say.
Sorry, you have a good thread doing. I'll leave you alone.

SS

Camping??? ugh!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

camping=dirty word!

Tell the mods, maybe they'll ******* it too.

SS

good idea!! And they could also ban the word "COKE!" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

How about "WORK."

That one beings tears to peoples eyes. Puts some down in bed just thinking about it.


SS

I think some of the tolerance for "living like that" is from depression.

It wasn't until after being on antidepressants for 5 weeks that I started to have good days again. I hadn't noticed that I hadn't had any really good days for a long time because I was only tracking the worst days. And, for whatever reason, I couldn't judge how far my quality of life had gone down.

My prespective on myself sucked.

With antidepressants, I can make life decisions again instead of putting them off or just suffering.

Loy, I have noticed also that living like that causes depression. When someone cannot count on themselves to help themselves, they begin to feel helpless.

It is a choice some people make. This is an excellent topic.

Some people are so frightened imho, of simply change in their lives. And sure, some of these changes are horrible. But we can only be responsible for OUR actions in response to unpleasant situations that life and those, yea, even those we claim to love and claim to love us hand to us on a silver platter.

For me, it was like making a decision...I could either sit and see my xh sit on a fence...and eat sooo darn much cake that he blew up, and do incredibly destructive things, or I could find somehow, peace. I knew a struggle would happen. I didn't think it would be as hard as it it/was...but it is waaaaay better than sitting on a fence..or being a martyr...or wanting sympathy...the reality was my xh, or the person I believed him to be, is no more. And I had to have the time I had to mourn the death of that part of my life...that pattern...that way of living. And change is not comfortable. But it is in the way we perceive it. Our perceptions make it what it is. If we say it's gonna be bad, it is surely going to be that.

If we instead reframe the situation to be a challenge, or that it could have an even better outcome than the present than that seems to help.

Some people are also imho, here hooked in the challenge of either "winning" or actually changing their partner. They get addicted to the drama of it...and want to see that the partner had conceded to them. Others I see, get in a nasty competition with the OP...and it's natural, they are the enemy...but so is the WS.

There is a proper time to MB...and to do the plans, and to work the program 100 percent. And then there is a time to say that "I will recover...one way (marriage heals), or another (I heal alone)." That's what I wish everybody here especially on this board to know. That recovery is 100 percent. But that you gotta be committed to living that life, 100 percent positive...despite the outcome of the sitch regarding a WS.

I really read a interesting thread on my usual forum, divorced/dating. It was about our social worth. And read some links about how if you are the one with less emotion, less tied to something or someone, the perception is different...and your social value climbs sky high. I think that many Bs here need to learn that concept early on. Just another way we can "work the program" here better...as for me, I am using that info on "working the new life" as a single girl better <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Btw...I am asking for prayers, taking a board exam tomorrow at 11 am~

I read something once (wish I could remember the book title) that presented another way of dealing with people when they have problems. The author suggested that rather than give advice, the listener can offer the four "i's": information, illustration*, insight, and inspiration. Suppose your friend is complaining about the high cost of getting her oil changed. Rather than saying, "You should learn how to change your oil yourself", one could say, "Well, if you are ever interested in learning to change your own oil, I know where they give classes" (information), or "You even remember to get your oil changed? You're so organized!" (inspiration), or "I've noticed you seem very worried about money lately. Does it have something to do with the layoffs around town?" (insight).

I have noticed in my own life, when I get fixated on solving someone else's problems and frustrated that they won't let me do so, it turns out that I am dodging dealing with a worry or problem of my own. I manage my anxiety by managing other people. I don't know if this is true of anyone else, though.

*that one might have been "illumination". I remember "information", "insight", and "inspiration" real well, but I'm shaky on the fourth one.

Pep ( and all)

I have come to believe that 'active coping' ( or whatever is the real phrase to describe the processing and management of problems and challenges in life, rather than the avoiding or mitigation of them) is like physical fitness.

Som epeople ar enaturally quite fit. Some are naturally slobs. But to get REALLY fit , you have to push through pain to achieve REAL fitness and competence.

My old rugby coach used to say that " sport Pain is just weakness leaving the body". I think the same is true for managing crises, large and small.

We flex our emotionl and itellectual 'muscles' in crisis and the get stronger once the pain of use dissipates.

Hi Melody,
Great question. I waited for a while to respond, because I wanted to think about it. I think that I've been on both ends many times. Sometimes we ask a question we know the answer to, but hope that someone will validate what we WANT to hear. When they don't, we CAN'T take their advice, but don't want to appear silly. Hence, the "Yes, but..."
Other times, I've had friends and family come to me with the same thing. I KNOW the answer they WANT to hear, but it's not the answer I can give. I know the next words out of their mouth will be "Yes, but.."
Guess we just need to make sure we don't get into a cycle where it happens all the time, or that it's a one-way-street.

There may be a good reason for this, but I notice that except when I am acting in my professional capacity, people rarely ask my advice. They say things that could be taken as an opportunity to give advice, like "My boss/husband/dad/mailman is driving me crazy", but if you look at that sentence from a neutral perspective, you have to admit that it does not mean, "Tell me how to run my life". It means, "My boss/husband/dad/mailman is driving me crazy". Acceptable responses range from, "Poor you", to "Gosh, I'm sorry".

Of course, when I'm dealing with people in my real life, as opposed to people on this board, I find myself reluctant to give advice anyway. I mean, I can think of lots of stupid things I have done that I was convinced were great ideas at the time (marrying my ex-husband, buying a see-through blouse in the 70's, eating that last burrito). Do I really want to be responsible for making decisions for other people (especially people who remember my ex-husband, the blouse and the unfortunate effects of that last burrito)? It would be my luck it would work like this-I finally convince my friend to ditch the loser husband who hasn't worked steadily since the Carter administration. Two weeks after the divorce becomes final, loser ex-husband wins the 11 million dollar powerball. I am forced to change my identity and leave town to avoid the wrath of my friend.

It's much safer to say, "Gosh, I don't know how you stand it. Wanna go grab a burrito?"

I guess if "safety" is your ultimate goal, that would be the way to go, Elspeth. I do agree that many people don't want advice, they want to vent and often choose to live in the problem. And that is certainly their prerogative.

I donno Mel,
This is an open forum and IMHO, I think you have to be cautious about the "the rebuke of the wise."
You could get overwhelmed with this view to the point of losing your validity.
It is well enough that it is offered, but you must sometimes accept it's rejection. That is not to say that you or your skillfull advise is wrong or unwise, but rather to face the inevitability that it may sometimes be not accepted in an unacceptable way (by your standards).
I would only humbly suggest that we all must deal and manage our own situations in a manner that somehow(even in the face of insanity)meets with our on approval.
It's what we can live with, and, what we can't live with.
Sometimes it's a horrible maze trying to figure out the difference. It doesn't happen over night, or even, over many months, or years. Just know, it doesn't diminish the suffering or the anguish.
I'm beggining to like Texas thinking, though. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
All Blessings,
J

So which is it that you are doing-venting, or asking for advice on how to change your interactions with your friend?

I guess neither.

Jerry, it wasn't my purpose to gripe about anyone not taking my advice, heck I am not one of the wise ones around here, but to point out that some folks are not here for a solution and that's perfectly ok. Some like living like that, which they are perfectly free to do.