Are you going to contact a lawyer now?

Do you think I need to go ahead and file and see what I am entitled to, or just wait and see what he offers. I do have a feeling that his offer may be reasonable. Basically, he is offering alimony (in the form of the house payment) for two years, I keep the minimal equity in the house, all of the "stuff", and 50/50 custody of the kids with me being the primary residence.

I do want to see if the judge will order that the kids are not allowed to be around OW until she is no longer married. I have mentioned that to WH weeks ago, but not since then.

I need to make sure the parenting plan is solid about the education and stuff-the homeschooling complicates matters. When we put them in school, it needs to be private school that we split the cost for.

What if his offer is the best I am going to get, but by me filing and "making him look like bad", he gets PO'd and wants to fight about stuff that really doesn't matter?

I hate being a grown up at times like this. That is why I need to secure a lawyer and let them handle the legal stuff so I can concentrate on the emotional and kid stuff.

Yeah, sounds like a good idea. A lawyer can fully tell you what you are entitled to, and he can fight for you and the children's needs.

I wonder when he files if you could you countersue or contest, and request that he pay your attorney fees?

Lady

One of the lawyers that I had tried to reach called me back Fri PM at 5:30 (that made me feel good that she called that late). I have an appt Monday afternoon. I have to stop trying to figure out what to do and just let the lawyer handle it. I don't know anything about divorce law, and I am driving myself (and everyone else) crazy trying to speculate on stuff that I don't know about.

So, I will keep the scanner busy tonight. Making copies of his bank statements and the bills.

He picked up the kids at noon today at McDonalds. His vehicle was packed down with all his clothes, he moved out of the motel in OW's neighborhood. He will find a motel closer to our home. I asked if I would be given that address, or would that also be private info (like everything else is), he said he would let me know where he was staying once he got checked in.

So that is one positive, that puts a little distance between him and OW (and makes it easier to do any surveilance as the hours drive was killing me). I am sure his lawyer suggested he get closer and step up on the visitation. It is hard to be father-of-the-year with OW up your butt.

I am done looking for info on OW and OWH. Something is amiss, I will just give all the names and addresses to the lawyer and let her sort out the mucky muck. I have had my head in Jerry Springersville for too long, my kids are suffering, my hair is starting to fall out, I still am not sleeping well...

I still miss my H, I am still trying to treat him respectfully and calmly, but not protecting him from the reprocussions of his actions. This is on him now. I wonder if he misses me at all, if he ever stops to think of any of it. I think he must, why else would he be so angry at me?

I have not stooped to any name calling, no angry outburst, no LBing at all. He says I am snippy, but I am only short when we are being plaintiff and defendant. How else would I act towards someone who is suing me??

But, hopefully, those discussions will stop now. There is no point in having them, he is offering what he is offering, no point in discussing it. Just let me see it on paper so I can have it reviewed, if it is not the best I can get, then our lawyers will discuss it. Then he says I am acting like a petty 6th grader. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

I called the girls to tell them goodnight. OD said it took them 4 hours to find a new motel. WH said it was very frustrating what people will charge for stuff. Oh well, part of the "clear thinking". But, he did tell me where they were, it is one of the nicer 'by the week' chains. It is closer to the house. He is taking the girls bowling tomorrow. Must be nice to afford all that.

I hope he can at least see that I am very kind, respectful and reasonable when I call about the kids. I will not (or I do not plan on) having anymore divorce conversations with him. I will let the lawyers handle that.

I just don't understand all that has happened in the past few months. I wish we had been able to stop the destruction train. I am scared to let him completely go-or as much as you can let the father of your children go. But I am so close to completely out of love. I wish I had had time to plan A him, but I will stay kind and respectful while not protecting him or OW as we move on.

I hate this for my children, I will so all I can legally to keep OW from them as we all know this relationship will most likely die soon.

I hate adultery, I hate divorce, I hate myself for my past but I cannot let my shame cloud my vision. I truly repented, I busted my butt to be a loyal wife, I forgave him, but I cannot let him ruin me now.

{{{{Jean}}}}}

I agree, just let the lawyers handle all of the D stuff. You definitely don't need to add that to your list of things to take care of. You just keep doing your best in taking care of everything else. Keep Plan A'ing him as best you can under the circumstances.....

Or

Is it time to totally blow his socks off and Plan B him???

He is still in contact with OW, he hasn't responded to Plan A. What do you think?

Kim

I can't plan B him, because he believes in his WS mind that I am Satan personified. If I plan B'd him, he would be doing cartwheels in the street. He just can't get over me "meddling in his affair". I guess he is rushing the divorce thinking then I will get it through my thick skull and leave OW alone. I haven't done anything at all since the talk with OW/OWH. But he still knows there is this unspoken threat over his head with regards to OW. .

Oh my dear Jean,

IMHO I believe you are overestimating the WS. Plan B does not run a logical course. The WS' reaction while predicatable to MBers here are surprisingly shocking and out of character for most who have never experienced this A stuff.

Pushing him with the D will send him towards the beginning of his end. Make him go to the OW? He's already done that. Remove him from his family? He's already done that. Allow him t/b less responsible? He's already done that.

So what will plan B allow? It will give U a break from his antics. It will make his stance more visible and give you proof to yourself and others of how out of wack he really is. It will give you space which will allow you to heal.

Will it end your M? It could. Will it guarantee your survival? Yes it can. It is now in your court.

Don't be afraid of doing a good plan B. Be afraid of not doing one. The D could happen either way. With a good plan B a D is not scary. It is a relief. W/o one there c/b you wondering and playing the 'what if' game for the rest of your life. Not a good game. That's stressful.

Getting over the fear of plan B is harder than implementing it. Fear of the unknown keeps many of us living in a state of limbo and prolongs the inevitable.

Get yourself on safe and solid ground. Id your boundaries and know yourself well. Then make your move. Execute your plan and be prepared to accept the consquences.

A WS is not match for a prepared BS. All the threats are reverse babbled away and the WS shrinks down to a miserable speck. The air of the A is blown out in the wind. Leaving the BS and family to move forward.

A dying WS is a good thing. It leaves the opportunity for the H or W to escape and come back to their family.

You know many a divorcee regret their divorces. It is usually the WS who has the regrets.

JMHO,
L.

Thanks Orchid,

But, from what I understand, plan A is to give them some warm fuzzies to remember-correct. I just don't think I have done enough plan Aing to go to plan B. Almost every conversation we have is him pushing me on the terms of the divorce. I just keep clamly saying that he has made his offer and when I have the papers-I will take it to an attorney for review.

I just don't think there is a bone in his body that has any warm thoughts of me at all right now. I will entertain the notion of going to plan B, but it just seems to me that plan B would thrill him right now. Exposure of the A is done, we are now on exposure of his assinine behavior. I am not lying, just reporting facts to anyone who asks.

I am not scared at all of plan B as far as me missing him-he is absoulutely no where to be found and hasn't been for well over a month. I am dealing with my withdrawal well. Now, he has moved closer, I assume he will be getting the kids more, there may be a small window for some plan Aing. I just need to stop the D talks-let the attorneys handle that. When it comes to the kids, I can be warm and kind.

So my carrot and stick is looking more like divorce=nasty, marriage=see, she is not unreasonable.

My only fear of plan B, is that it will be too late for me to have any love left to protect.

But I do think it is not plan B time yet. Maybe with some distance between OW and him, maybe I can get some good plan Aing in.

I will listen to advice, but it does seem that if I sent him a plan B letter now, he would do the happy dance for a week.

Plan A allows the BS time to give deep reflection and make the neccessary improvements in themselves. All the while the WS c/b a WS or an Xws....that's their choice. Most times the WS stays as the WS and plan B becomes the next step.

Either way, once the plan A changes are done, the BS moves forward. Plan B or D depending on how the BS feels is what happens. All the while the WS c/b a Ws or Xws.....that's their choice.

Do you see the difference between my interpertation and yours? U must go into these plans for your reasons...... you can't change a Ws into an Xws.....that is their choice. What you can do is show them your changes and if the fog is clearing they may want to catch up. Otherwise, the BS gets to the point where they no long choose to tolerate the WS as a WS and the Ws then becomes the Xspouse by default (once the BS goes for the D).

Going for the D would then be on the BS terms and in the BS timeframe. A BS should never allow the WS to push the BS into the D. BS goes for it when he/she is ready.

JMHO,
L.

I called WH to talk to the girls and the kids and I talked about our Halloween plans. WH got on the phone, I apologized for interupting their dinner and let him know that he could have had me call him back after they ate.

Later, he called saying that OD wanted a different costume and he made a snippy remark about "What, I am not included in Halloween plans now". I kindly said that I assumed he knew that Halloween was tomorrow and that he had not asked for the girls. I was happy to let him handle the trick-or-treating.

It did irk me, so I called him a tad later and calmly said that it sounded like he was implying that I was not including him in things and that I was just trying to accomodate his schedule. I just wanted to let him know that that implication hurt and I wanted to clear the air instead of having negative feelings.

He actually apologized! He said he was just having a bad day and he was sorry. What could possibly be wrong in his little world?? The attorney has suggested he move away from OW-maybe? The attorney said this is gonna cost you $$? His daughters might have said how sad they are that he left?

Or maybe he is having a bad hair day (OW hates his ponytail, once he shows up with that cut off-I will know I have lost him for good)

Best case scenario for my marriage, the physical distance between him and OW will help. He seems like he is going to ask for the kids more and that will create less time for him to spend with OW. I can be the charming STBX. Maybe this can turn him around...

But I don't know if I want him anymore <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Jennifer told me that while they are still involved in the A the things you do in planA don't really get through the fog...it's when the love busting starts between the OW and H and/or when you are in plan B...that the fog may begin to clear and he will think about the things that you did and the changes you made in plan A

i also think you need to plan A longer

I do see what you are saying Orchid. I have not made the changes in myself needed to attract my WH. WHY? I don't think I have any idea of what he needs. And if OW is what he needs-then I can never be that. I will never be a government defrauding, maybe-maybe not married, Asian who doesn't speak much English who will just coo at everything that comes out of his mouth.

There are some character aspects of me that irk him that I can change. My housewife wardbrobe, my overly introverted nature, my enjoying an intellectual debate with him-those are things I can change. And I have.

But, honestly, I don't think my H likes me. I think I am the "until something better comes along" default wife. Maybe I am just buying in to his fog babble. But after looking at our past, I realize that he may never like who I am.

And I like who I am. I can change some of my behaviors, but I can't change who I am.

Jean,

The improvements are for your benefit. His is a side benefit.

Don't work to copy the OW. Work on improving you for you. At some point you were attractive to your H. Of course a BS is not attractive to the WS. WS hate BS'. A BS reminds them of the real world.....love, family, responsiblity, care, loyalty, faithfulness, morals, happy memories, etc.

Work on you for you. If the WS sees your beauty, then there is a chance. If he doesn't, then you don't really want him in your life now do you?

You know this ILYbutNILWY stuff goes both ways. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

L.

I guess that us where my mental roadblock is. I think to be a success, my M must be saved. That is most likely not going to happen. I don't feel like a failure though.

The kids weren't happy so they asked him to bring them home tonight instead of in the morning. We talked on the phone several times within a 30 minute period, I was trying to comfort OD so she would be OK at WH's. But, he finally gave up and brought them home.

He had told me he was having a bad day. The girls said it was because he promised his OW and someone else, that he would not talk to her for the next 3 months. Hmmmm

They also said that they weren't supposed to tell me. I just showed them that they could tell me anything without me reacting. I said I hope Daddy feels better soon.

There is no point in asking him AGAIN to not ask the children to lie to me, I'll just write it all down and let the lawyer know.

Hmmm, wonder why he would have to stay away from OW for 90 days, the exact amount of time it taked to get divorced. Could be someone is getting scared, or maybe attorney said to lay low??

What a putz <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> I pulled out his goodbye letter to take to the lawyer with the lovely quote about OW not being the cause but the trigger blah blah blah.

I think I have talked myself into believing that the only reason I have fought for the marriage is due to financial insecurity. So, if I pull out my list of priorities, my sanity and peace of mind in #1, financial security is #6.

Yes, I have been happily married, my needs were being met. But, I think that is just because I have such low standards. I know I can meet WH's needs, just not his need for me to "back off". And I can't read his mind. That was one of the things he said often before he left. "No one else needs written intructions on how to make me happy, they just know.

As far as him staying away from OW for 3 months... He doesn't seem to get that even after our D, she is still defrauding the government, I don't know why he thinks she is invincible after our D is final?

But, I am going to stop worrying about all that, I'll just let the lawyer know and she can decide on best course of action. If I can get judge to say OW in not to be around the kids as long as she is M, I will be pleased.

I don't know whether to talk to him about asking the kids to lie to me or not. He thinks I grill them when they get home, but he told me on the phone he was having a bad day. They told me he yelled at them alot because he was having a bad day. I said "you know it wasn't about you and I am sorry that daddy yelled at you". That is when YD told me what the bad day was about, and OD got mad at her for telling me the secret. I did well not reacting, just said I hope daddy feels better soon. I don't need OD angry at YD for violating WH's sick secrecy.

I want to call him and get onto him about asking the kids to cover for him again. But, I am going to resist. He really needs to find some friends to share his secrets with and stop dumping them on the kids.

I guess the plan for tonight is that I will take YD trick or treating with my sister and her family. WH won't do that bcause my sister glares at him. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

He will take OD to do something else, which OD is not happy about. I really hate that OD is not very comfortable around him, she is very conflicted. I hate that there is this conlict, I am just not reacting to anything so she can see that she can talk to me without me getting emotional.

I am trying to look 6 months into the future. We will have to coparent, and I know that we can do that well. The divorce he is forcing will not go as smoothly as he would like, but I hope he can differentiate between me as defendant and me as mother of his kids.

I wonder what the possibility of him actually staying away from OW for three months is. What are the chances that she will move on to someone single in three months? I think it has only been 4-5 months or so since the A started.

My problem is, I can't get any clarity on whether I want my H anymore.

He shouldn't be taking it out on the kids.....

Here's my suggestion: Go tell some of his 'friends' what he is doing to the children. Let them know he needs someone to dump on other than you and the children. Ask if they can help and if they want to try and put some sense into his head.

Now as a WS, he will fight this because basically WS' are cowards and conflict avoiders. Let your lawyer know the WS has anger management problems and is yelling at the chlidren, telling them to keep secrets and this is not making you feel that he is a safe place or person for your children w/.

Jump on this, it is critical. The WS is out of control and you must act swiftly but wisely.

Be safe.
L.

I talked to a much better lawyer today-better in the fact that I didn't leave there feeling like I would be homeless. She said it really doesn't make a difference if I file first, I can wait for his offer. She doesn't understand why I don't want to file first-I explained that there was 14 years of intimadation I was working on recovering from.

She felt comfortable charging him with adultery and improper marital conduct. He should be paying the house note/utilities plus CS. She also agreed with the other attorney that the judge will likely approve my request that OW not be around the kids until she is also divorced.

I made an appt for the kids and I to start family therapy next Monday.

I need to kindly ask WH one more time to stop asking the kids to lie to me and to ask him to stop discussing him mistress with his young daughters. The lawyer said that if this behavior doesn't stop-I need to stop visitation.

I don't want to file, I don't know why, I don't think I want the marriage anymore. It does not sound like I need to be scared financially of filing. Why am I so scared of irritating my WH <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Hi Jean -

Explain more about the improper marital conduct - what does that cover?

That's great that you and the kids are going to do family therapy. I know that will help you so much.

Is is that we don't want to irritate our WH's so there will be less reason for them to stay with OW? I hope that in this 3 month's time that your WH will come out of his FOG. If he truly doesn't speak to her, he will go through some WD and this will be a great opportunity for you to Plan A him pretty hard(even while you are still going through the D motions)

Take Care!

Kim