Always good to hear from you Orchid.

I guess I just figure that plan B would be more effective if we were actually speaking to each other more often. As is stands now, we talk (or he argues) with me once a week about the divorce which I am waiting for him to file. And he picks up the kids and brings them home. There just isn't much interaction at all.

I am prepared emotionally and mentally to file, I need the cash for the retainer and I need to file since no grocery money is coming from him. I guess I was hoping that he would try to get a little closer before I do a plan B. But, honestly, that is just how plan B sounds to me and I am still thinking of it as a tool to get the WS back.

Getting him back may not be my objective anymore. Getting his head out of his a$$ for the kids sake would be nice, but that is why we are starting counseling (the girls and I). I can't control him and the girls need help.

So even though things are not going well for my M, I do believe that the principles here work. I plan A'd and I am comfortable with who I am. I am not who he wants, and I am OK with that. I miss my H, but he is not anywhere around (you are right, I keep thinking that WH is my H and if that is the truth, I don't want any part of it).

I wanted to be a MB success story, but even though I don't think our M will last, I am OK with that. I did everything I knew to do and stuff that I didn't know to do until I got here. I will write a plan B letter to go with the D papers if I get them files before he does. If there is any hope of us respectfully coparenting, I will need him to stay as far away from me as possible as I am beginning to have more disgust and pity for him than any warm fuzzies.

I am really OK, I am hurting for my children and I dread the nastiness of the D. But WH and I don't need to discuss the D, the lawyers can handle that.

I am insulted and frustrated, but I will get over that.

Ooohh Jean, I want to send you a big {{{{MB HUG}}}}.... ok more{{{{hugz}}}}} <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

U R a success story. U r not the headline in some sleazy magazine nor a discarded article on a forgotten newspaper waaay out there in la la land.... nope, you are alive and kickin' up some an MB storm right here for the world to read. U do realize that the world does read what you write, right? People from all over the globe read your story. That makes you and the rest of MBers here, journalist's of sorts. Some of us tell stuff novels are made up of but sadly have to file it under the family psychology section instead of the drama section. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Ok, now you will be reaching a turning point soon. In fact the road is bending to give you the relief you need. Up ahead will be a fork to go to plan B or stay on the rollercoaster. The rollercoaster will be a more familar road.... you will see the same ol' WS greasing the tracks and the OW laying the tracks...... There's a big warning sign saying ENTER @ YOUR OWN RISK!!!! Then there's the plan B road. Looks winding and narrow but up ahead around that bend is a more peaceful place. People are actually laughing there. If you strain your ears enough, you may hear that laughter. The sounds of your own children, having fun again..... it is within reach.

U decide.

take care,
L.

I do feel like the road is bending to give me relief. But, your last sentence made me wince. If I can chose the path that will lead to my children's happiness faster-I would do it in a heartbeat.

I think that is another cause of my agnst. I reallt think I am close to the point where I could not work on the M, I don't think I could put my children through another failure. At this point, I am scared of him wanting to come home-I would be the bad guy and say no.

And I will admit, I feel bad that maybe he is right. We just don't work and we have wasted enough of each others time. I think we disagree on the reasons we don't work, I do feel like I have been willing, and a small part of me still is willing to do the work. But, my gut says that my H is just a bad investment.

I was talking to an old friend of ours last night. He is very religious and as known my H for 20 years. He did not disagree with me that H might have issues that will prevent recovery until he has resolved them for himself. I am not terribly religious, but I am dealing with so much guilt and shame from my past behavior. But I do feel like I have been truly remorseful and I did ask for forgiveness and I thought it had been granted by my H.

There are times when I feel like I should not try to get any financial security out of the D, I should let him off "easy" since I am such a screw up too. But maybe that is just me buying into his justification and intimidation. So I am not going to obsess about any of that, the lawyers and the judge will deal with that.

But, each day gets a little better.

Jean- I want to give you a big hug as well.
I know the roller coaster ride all to well myself. Your doing great my dear. You are a great person for doing what's right. DO NOT FORGET THAT.
God bless you!

My OD is always very interested in the MB web site and she tries to read over my shoulder. I don't want her reading my post, I have explained that I will tell her everything I can about my feelings, but I need to talk to grown ups who have been through this so I can help both of us.

Anyway, she saw at the end of my last post where I said that each day gets better, and she said I was right. We talked a little about the separation, this one and the last one. She thinks the divorce will make this one different, but I explained that it won't be different. People actually were surprised that we weren't divorced last time. She asked if we could get back together after a divorce.

I think she felt a little better, she thinks a D will change things drastically-but it won't. It will look like this, or it will look like the last separation, or it will look like something else-but a black cloud will not swallow us up. She asked if I would cry when we got divorced.

I think I am beginning to see that my inertia is harmful to all three of us. I need to start showing them that we are OK. I am frustrated with the limbo, and I guess the limbo scares them. Maybe my children can motivate me to poop or get off the pot.

Thanks for the encouragement Dazed, I follow your thread but as a FWS, it rips my heart out to read how I must have acted. ((Dazed))

When I talked to WH last on Halloween, he had said he was going to get off half a day early to pick up the girls to take to his sisters for the weekend. So we waited, then I called him at the end of his work day and he was just finishing up. I said, I know you hate talking to me if I always have to criticize, but can we please get to that point of mutual respect when it comes to the scheduling.

He says, I know, I know, I told coworker that I needed to call you <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />. So I ask myself, why are we having so much communication trouble with the scheduling? Well, because I am accepting it. He knows that we are just sitting here waiting for him to grace us with his presence.

As he was leaving, he told me that his buddy wants him to get one of his video game thingies when he drops off the kids. I said, can you tell me where it is, I'll pull it out. He said, no just remind me when I drop off the kids. I love his sense of entitlement, I don't have to be his secretary anymore. But, I let him assume that I will be whatever crappy thing I can be for him.

But the good news is, when I see him or talk to him, he just leaves me thinking "wow, he is such an a$$". I have no pangs, no longing, I think I am pretty close to indifferent. He is merely someone who inconveinences me at this point.

At that concerns me because it is such a short time since D-day, it makes me question my love and loyalty to him. But, I am a SAHM with virtually no distractions in my life. So my theory is I have obsessed about this crap at least a years worth in the past 2.5 months.

As far as plan B, here is my thinking. If I can get filed before he does, there should be nothing for us to discuss. the lawyers will handle all the settlement, and I will give him a temp parenting plan. We should not have to talk at all. If, he were to start calling about anything else, then I would implement plan B. But, we really just talk to do kid stuff or find out where we are in securing a lawyer.

I am not scared of him talking about reconciliation. After rereading some of Orchids stuff, I know that is he asked if I would let him come home, if I answered "Why", he would have no valid reason to give me and that would be the end of the conversation.

I think I resented plan A because I fought the idea that I needed to "woo" my H, he's my H, I should get first dibbs! And he would not "woo" me for the same reason. And this makes me realize that there is nothing there that either of us care to fight for.

The only thing I respect about him now is that OW has not talked him into cutting off his ponytail. He told me once that she hates it, I am always curious to see if it is still there. When it is gone, I will know that he has completely lost himself for her. I have no idea how their 3 month cooling off period is going-I just don't care. He may end up alone, broke and full of regret. But the door to recovery is closing in my heart. That makes me feel like I just don't love him enough to pine away, maybe that is a sign of healthy self esteem.

Good Morning Jean -



It was scary for me going into Plan B as well. I was so worried that there was not enought warm fuzzies in WH's love bank. He was sleeping in the other room, not wearing his ring. Writing OW love notes still. But you just come to a point where you have to decide that Plan B is for YOU. My Plan A wasn't the best in the world either. But, I had enough. I couldn't see WH anymore. Too painful. I hope you will see where a Plan B can help you with Jean. Don't worry about WH.

Kim

Good morning Kim, Is today the trip to the bank day? I hope that goes well for you.

I hope I don't sound like I am arguing the need for a plan B, or trying to get out of it somehow. But, he just doesn't bug me that much anymore. I see him or talk to him, he is a putz and I don't have much pain about it at all. If plan B is to protect me, then I can feel OK skipping it and going straight to plan D.

The only thing that causes me any pain is regarding the children. And I just have to deal with that the best I can. the money thing is just a thorn in my side. Plus, I don't think he is trying to "get to me" with the money thing, he really just has a screw loose. It just seems real simple, a few months ago, he gave me grocery money every week, now he doesn't-doesn't he think there is going to be a grocery deficit?

I will not have an issue going to plan B if my pain level increases. But, for now, he just doesn't have that power over me.

Deep, deep down, I am hoping his fog never lifts, that my H never resurfaces. I am scared of being vulnerable to him, and as long as he is WH, I have become comfortable in my invincibility suit. I think I want out while the getting is good. I want to make sure I am Ding WH, if I saw any part of my H, it would tear my heart out.

Luckily for my heart, H has not been seen from or heard from in quite awhile. I hate reading about people who have been doing this BS crap for years. It does make me feel like I am giving up too soon and that I must not have loved H like I claimed to.

But if the objective of MBing is being OK with myself, regardless of my spouses actions, than I am a MB success today.

I was just thinking about our previous reconciliation (after a 2 year separation). I asked if he would have dinner with me, and we sat making awkward small talk before I finally worked up the courage to admit my mistake and ask him if there was any chance for reconciliation.

What if he had asked me "Why do you want me back?". I honestly think I was completely ready to be his wife, my loyalty was always to him. I pined for him for the two year separation. Yes, I was living with OM, but OM knew that I was still loyal to my H. I have read the letters I wrote to H shortly after reconciliation. I knew who he was and I loved him.

For the first few months after we reconciled, I asked him often if his needs were being met. His GF and him during our separation had a very affectionate relationship, something that was weird for me to see since we had never been like that. I asked him if there was anything from his previous relationship that he wanted to bring to the new marriage. I did want to meet all the needs that former GF met. He actually mentioned some things, and I happily did them.

He never wanted to talk about my relationship with OM, as far as what we had between us. My H and OM had a relationship on their own, the did a few jobs together, played chess together, talked politics together, so if we talked about OM at all, it was not about mine and his relationship, it was just pretty casual since H knew him well also.

After D-day, when WH started taking my inventory of all the things that I was doing wrong that caused his A, I listened intently, because there were a few things that OM had complained about also. Mostly, it was some ball busting behavior that both men seem to respect when I am dealing with other people, just not with them. But, it is something that I am listening to, even non romantic male friends comment on that behavior trait of mine.

I guess I am just trying to alleviate the guilt that I feel for my WH's A. I have a tendency to make it all my fault. But, I think I can say, I knew there was going to be baggage from my A and the separation-I do believe I was willing to deal with that.

I am just trying to make some sense out of all this, and try to make it not all my fault. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

(((((Jean)))))

I share your fear of plan B for similar reasons. My thinking is, If WH is so far gone, wouldn't it just drive him farther away? Isn't it what he wants anyway?

I admire you for your outlook on MB, and I'm trying to come to that realization myself, that MB can be for my own improvement even if WH never comes back. I've learned a lot in these past 2 1/2 months about both me and WH. I don't think I could take him back even if he woke up from the fog.

Hang in there!

((Sadmommy))

I may be confused or I am not expressing myself well, or I am kidding myself. I am not afraid that plan B will drive him farther away-what I am scared of is false recovery.

And I need to get to the point where I will not tolerate any half a$$ed efforts. I have to get to the point where I can firmly reject his poor effort at financial settlement. I need to reject his offer to amicable coparenting, because he seems to think that coparenting means me and the kids waiting for his update. And I need to firmly be able to reject any "well it didn't pan out with OW so I guess you'll have to do".

So maybe a firm plan B would get me there. Get to me the point where I know I do not have to accept any more crap. Plan B is supposed to get one of us off the fence. I am ready to jump off the fence. I do not want H to "settle" for me. I deserve better than that.

Jean....

I am always drawn to your posts....some of the things you say hit close to home and it always makes me think...

About a week before my H left me we had an argument where he called my a whiner and an antisocial person....then he gave me a letter and appoligize for it, but part of his appology was 'there has always been something we did not like about each other and at least we told each other'...trouble was, I did not call him any names...and then when he was telling his parents why he left me he told them he was always critical of me and did not like that about himself....

All this always gets me to thinking....does he even like me, forget about love me, just plain like me... I don't know....I think he may like me well enough as an aquaintance but not enough to want to live with me....it sounds like I don't bring out the best in him....

You wrote about your WH not liking you and it really hit home....

I can only imagine that as a FWW you feel a lot of guilt but at the same time there is so much remorse that I feel coming from your posts Jean...it is there and it is unmistakable....I am sure if you WH paused for a time he would feel it as well... His A is not your fault, I just don't believe that, just as your EA was not his....at the end he had the option to leave or at lease voice his disatisfuction with the R/M. He did not have to go off and have an A, that was his choice. I must say I don't like his actions towards the kids at all...asking them to lie to you. It has such damaging effects for the rest of their lives...their envirement shapes them, it determines who they will be as grown ups and it is sad that he is imposing this additional burden on them...it is already difficult enough as is not having their father in their lives....

Jean...don't let the guilt get to you...I know easier said then done...I myself keep analyzing and trying to figure out what I could have done differently so that my M did not fall apart, but it is in the past and nothing I can do to change it, so I try not to focus on it so much and try not to blaim myself....

I wonder to what extend your guilt over your own A is getting you to the point that you feel you don't deserve the M to work out...just a thought...I just get this feeling that you are very remorsful and that a part of you feels you don't even deserve it and so it is easier for you to deal with a WH then your H....and in some sense I wonder if you want the D from WH to happen fast so that you can 'run away' as it were and not confrant the guilt you feel anymore....I don't mean this in a bad way... Jean...I just wish you would forgive yourself...it sounds like you have not....I may be wrong...

Hang in there,
Daisy

Thank you White Daisy for your very thoughtful post.

I am remorseful and I think that my actions in the past year showed that. I really would have done almost anything to be a faithful and loving wife. I know that we discovered things about ourselves during our separation, and there were things that we needed from our other relationships that we needed to include in the marriage.

During our 10 year marriage, we were very good partners, but not very loving, intimate or affectionate. In the past year, we were able to have fun, laugh, snuggle etc. It actually amazed me, to be sitting in my H's lap, laughing and loving eahc other. I was shocked that we were able to do that just like any other couple.

There is a part of me that believes that the intimacy scared him. He had everything he wanted, by all accounts. His friends all say that he seemed truly happy. I think that there was still something missing, and he just assumed that it was something that I should have fixed. I think there may be something missing from H's life that no woman, electronic toy, or car will be able to fix.

I think I still love him, and I do wish him well. I hope that he finds peace some day. I just can't keep chasing my tail trying to be who he thinks he needs. I am amazed by the support I have received from my family and friends. I have realized that I am a very likable person. And I have been loved romantically before. I think my H might have even loved me every once in a while.

But, on the brighter side.. I painted my bedroom today and replaced the linens and rearranged. The color isn't exactly what I wanted, but at Lowe's, they have paint mistakes for $3.00 a gallon, I couldn't resist. My room is all un-WHed and he would hate the color I am sure. I is pretty feminine so I hope my daughters will like it.

They haven't wanted me to change anything in the house, but they finally said I could paint my room. I talked to them tonight, they miss me but they are having a blast at their Aunt's.

My mom came over, she said she would loan me the money for the retainer. My brother wants to buy the car, which will excite my OD, she wanted to keep it in the family. My sister gave me some cash to tide us over-I feel very blessed to have my family's support.

Jean...

There is something very sad about reading your posts...I don't mean to get you down, but as I read them I get the feeling like I am reading the last chapter of your R/M while at the same time my own is at an end....

I still talk to my H but there is no R talk and the more time that goes by like this the more I am accepting the situation and look at this man as someone who will just be a part of my past, not my future....

I met him today for tea before going for a play...we set at the tea shop drinking tea for about 45 minutes and I tell you it was mostly uncomfortable...I usually try to make conversation but lately I just ask myself what is the point...I am not getting anything from this, why bother trying....His responses to me a short and frankly I feel like he is suspecious of anything I ask, even goes so far as to ask why am I asking, etc...I am tired....as time goes on I just don't feel like bothering anymore...

We went on to the play and it was all about love, children, marriage, etc...and I found myself thinking that one day I would have a happy M and I look forward to that...this one I am in as at an end....I cried during the play and worked hard not to show my tears...

Glad to hear your girls are ok with the color change... sounds like you had a nice day...

Enjoy Jean...
Daisy

Yesterday was a weird day. It was good, I got some work done, my family came out in full force to pull me up by my boot straps. I have slipped into a very depressive lumpy state where I just can't get motivated. Having my family here making trips to the dump and helping me get stuff cleaned up was pretty depressing to me.

Having to realize that being M to H does seem to drain me. Even before D-Day, I just wasn't getting things done around the house. When I first moved back, I was cleaning, scrubbing, turning this place back into a home. After a few months, with his unwillingness to help me at all-I just started letting things go. I really just needed him to help me for 3 hours, load up the trailer one time to get the yard cleaned up. I think I asked him for 2 things in the past year, make one dump run with me and could we please get trash service (which he could afford, but why bother when I would just keep loading trash in my car).

But anyway, having my family willing to give me the money for the attorney was weird. I do believe they want what is best for me, and it is sad to realize that in everyone's opinion, a divorce is the next right thing to do.

My BIL and a friend of his came over briefly to move some heavy furniture, even WH's best friend is being very supportive of me.

I think my biggest hang up is ego based. I really want him to want me a little, maybe I just want him to offer reconciliation so I can say no. But, if that happened, then I would feel guilty that he was willing and I was not. I know that his idea of willing is not going to cut it. I will not be with someone who is settling for me.

I still am not in love with the bedroom color, it looks like I had a temper tantrum with a cantalope, honeydew and a melon baller <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />. I did one of those dry brush paint techniques, I got a lot of pent up frustration out having to paint the large room with a brush instead of a roller. Now I need to find something to hang on the wall, I am terrible about hanging pictures.

When I called the girls, I could hear WH and his family talking and laughing in the background, it irks me to hear him enjoying anything-but the thing to do is to start some laughing of my own. I need to find some joy and release.

I think you know what he is willing to do to save the M, what he is not willing to do and what really will work for you.....Both people must want to work on the M. It is hard work and after an A it is even more work to have a happy M. If your WH came back, he would have to be ready to do a lot to save the M....so, if he does come back, you will know by what he says he will do to save the M, just how serious he is....

Sorry Jean, don't mean to get you down in my last post. Had a bit of a tough night, got too sad....

I know how hard it is to get through knowing that WH is having fun out there without you. I really get the feeling reading here that the BS takes a long time to recover, is unhappy for some time...while the WH is out there having a good time (and he caused it all)....

Yes, you do have to do something fun for yourself, something that is just about you...and enjoy...

It is good that you family is there helping you...they want to see you happy...

Best,
Daisy

I know what you mean, Jean. Yesterday at the bank, WH picked DS up in the air & I could hear him laugh and talk happily with DS. I just turned my back and kept myself hidden behind the partition.

It hurts to hear them happy. They need to be in pain too. You know they have to be. Can they REALLY be completely happy ever with themselves?? I try to put myself in their shoes. It's hard & I know it's easier for you as you have been the WS before.


I like the description of your room color!!

It is time for you to get your joy back.

Kim

I try to put myself in their shoes. It's hard & I know it's easier for you as you have been the WS before.

I guess that is one of the things that bugs me. Maybe it is different for men and women, or maybe it is a mom thing, or maybe I just make a crappy WS (I hope that is it) but, I really didn't enjoy my stint as a WS. I honestly felt like I had a big scarlet A on my forehead.

Even though my OM was welcomed into the "family" (they all knew him from when we dated before), he rarely if ever, came to any family functions. We knew what we were and we tried to keep it out of everyone's face. My H brought his GF (he met after we separated) and people thought she was the OW that caused our problem. I have let everyone know that was not the case, I told them then and I tell them now. I do take responsibility for my actions.

But I feel good knowing that I do have shame, it hopefully means I have some character. I was so wrong and I lived like the troll that I was during my WS term. I gave my H everything and I lived in fear that he would call me on my behavior and do what needed to be done.

I just wish my WH could do the same, have some sense of shame, stop saying "we just don't work", stop making up excuses for what has happened.

Something must be wrong with me, I could not enjoy my own A, I feel shame about mine, I feel shame about his. I need to forgive myself a little, maybe.

NO, NO, NO!!!!!! There is nothing wrong with you!!! That is the difference between you & your A. You were able to see it as wrong & own up to it. He is not. Yes, forgive yourself a lot. You have nothing to be ashamed of AT ALL!! You are a wonderful person - caring and compassionate.

I hope my post did't come across the wrong way. Rereading it, I hope you didn't take it as me saying it's easier at all for you to be in this position!!!!

O.K.?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Kim